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[Music]

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coffee yes go Ahad coffee doesn't do for me what it's supposed to it doesn't no it doesn't

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doesn't wake me up or give me

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energy yeah um in fact if I drink too much yeah it

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will make me sleepy wow don't know why and I'm not the only one I've heard

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other people share that as well but um but I drink it cuz I like it not because

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it gives me that morning yeah okay that may change as I

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get older I don't know but I hear you right now so I actually drink half calf

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okay and I considered switching to decaf completely cuz I don't care about the caffeine except they don't make caffeine

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coffee as good it's just not because the process caffeine or decaffeinated coffee is good decaf excuse me okay okay yeah

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no SWAT yeah um and the reason yeah that I understand it to be I don't I haven't

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looked in the process that much but is they basically suck all the juices out of the beans sure remove the caffeine

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somehow some chemical process and then try and shove the flavor back in and you know it just doesn't I don't think yeah

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it doesn't work to suck all the blood out of me suck me dry and then put it back in may be a little different I

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think I'd probably be a little different I don't think i' taste the same

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[Music]

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yeah welcome to how I see it with me Mark Pratt and Justin Sternberg this is

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a podcast that works to countercultural polarization through thoughtful

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conversations no I I I personally of course I'm not a

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coffee person yeah I'm naturally caffeinated I would refer to refer to myself naturally

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cated but uh I've heard that from others so you haven't been had your blood blood

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sucked out and the caffine not in the ca REM not in a caffeine sense yes you you

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are caffeinated I am Caff I'm I'm naturally caffeinated all right fair enough but as

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far as that go uh as you're uh thinking about that what

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tends to come to mind when you think about not being fully

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energized or the ability to be energized yeah well you know when

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when yeah when I'm sleepy yeah I think about when's the

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next moment today I'll be able to rest or maybe grab a catnap or something like

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that is there an opportunity to catch up because you kind of have that longing

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feeling of of needing rest of needing sleep or whatever um and that's a nice

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little pway mark Cuz uh today our goal is to talk a little bit

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about the value of rest right sure and what rest can look like I don't know who knows where we'll go we'll do what we do

3:27
we'll Meander around the topic of rest but yeah and I as I was thinking about

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as we talked about you know rest and I do uh I think our desire is to address

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topics that tend to be polarizing and I think in some ways as I

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uh as I think about rest that can be one of those things that tends to be a

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polarizing topic because I and and I oh yeah follow me because I think in as we

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talk about rest and sleep or what rest is I think

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there are some there are or and possibly even myself I this is why I'm talking

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about it I guess that might equate rest with laziness

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right that go ahead well I was going to say in in my

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uh in industry I guess the tech tech world there's a hustle culture it's

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called The Hustle cult culture not just Tech but like in Creator more like

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YouTubers it's this idea that if you want to rise to the top you got to hustle you know all day all night and in

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the tech world it's you know it's like whoever works the hardest is going to

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the meritocracy idea right like whoever Works hardest and proves their worth gets to the top

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gotcha and then you think about America just in general how we're we're kind of

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like that I think as opposed to a country like what is it Spain Siesta I guess

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that's maybe Mexico Mexico yeah yeah yeah I hear you but I think France maybe Spain does too I I recall there being a

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country where they're very relaxed about like lunchtime for instance sure long

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there's an actual shutdown of the day that everybody plans on yeah in the middle of the day and then that makes

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time for more partying at the end of the day but seriously you're able to have

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that time the Siesta to be able to rest MH

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yes so what is your what are your personal thoughts on on rest or or even

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your ability to do it in contrast to the

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hustle yeah um

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so I think for me I probably tend towards

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hustle it's probably like if you were to look at a scale of hustle versus rest

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sure the scale probably towards hustle yeah and to the point where it it should

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it needs to be more balanced right the scal should be a little more balanced because because I will and I think maybe

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this is slowly changing as I get older just an understanding of like there's no

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re reason or need to like continually prove myself and I think it ties into

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other character traits of like approval needing approval or needing to prove my Worth or whatever and so it's always you

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always have to be on right and I think as no but that's how I that's how it

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feels yeah yeah I think yeah and think that naturally as I get older I

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naturally care less about what people think less about proving my worth I've established enough stuff behind me right

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like there's enough under my belt so to speak to say credibility credibility yeah worth that I've

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gained um selfworth I guess okay just like and so the need to go go go go is

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lessened and I'm able to recognize the importance of rest and also family is a

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very important like Dynamic to me right now and to me that often represents rest

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in a good way sure not always of course especially when you know when the kids were younger and babies and yeah I think

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sometimes I would go to work just so I could get some rest sure yeah yeah um

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yeah what are your thoughts here again um it's interesting that it's interesting as you were

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sharing to think back and look back at how I've maybe my views of rest have

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changed um and and one of one of the uh one of my early memories I can I mean I

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can remember being at my grandparents house you know in the middle of the day

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having lunch and at that point probably my he

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would have my grandfather would have been and 70 years old give or take he you know lived in 96 no

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99 and I can still remember because my my grandfather was

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noted in the area for his work ethic MH he was he was noted he was you know as a

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hard man you know full German you know he he would have been approximately 6

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feet tall give or take but probably you know 170 PB pound just you know tall and

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lanky just but was this was in Pennsylvania this is in Pennsylvania

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yeah it wasn't like he wasn't omish or anything like that but kind of that similar work ethic idea very similar

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work ethic even even more so is just um yeah the the the work ethic that he

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had and even my grandmother she was his partner in the process of course and I

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would I would say you know my grandfather was probably more

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recognizable but from my perspective my grandmother worked equally hard you know

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on the farm and I and I I can still remember you know after lunch my

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grandfather would lay on a like a day bed in their kitchen and he would take

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like a 20 minute nap 15 20 minute nap every day and so when you were talking

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about rest that's kind of what came to my mind it's like right up till my grandfather died

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he was a farmer I mean right up till I mean he kind of had a heart issue became

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pneumonia and he passed away like you know he I yeah I happened to be uh

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happened to be in the hospital actually the day he passed away he was there he had you know kind of spoken over John

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our son you know and and he was gone and yet you know two probably probably two

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weeks before that he had been milking cows right up till that time you know so

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I I was and as I was thinking about that you it's like as a kid sitting in his

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kitchen wondering what I'm going to do for the next 15 20 minutes while I have

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to be quiet so I don't wake up you know my grandfather or my grandmother they

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both she my grandmother went to the other room Na and like so I I thought about that in the context of how

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beneficial that rest may have been in that longevity process because

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because there's no doubt my grandparents were up early in the morning you know they weren't necessarily late to bed

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people yeah you know but yet I just thought about that from the as you were

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sharing from that context of early on and how I currently look or value rest

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in that process how that affects how I see it is there a benefit to that nap in

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the middle of the day where longevity is concerned is there you know the Siesta

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and yet in our American culture it's like no burn the candle both ends all

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the time fast as you can yeah and I I I the here again the older I get the more

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I say no I'm not sure that's the most beneficial way right and I and I think

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you know because this truth be told you know

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there's moments when I shift from the construction world to the therapy world

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where I know I've gotten up early to do the construction thing and now I'm transition into my evening I'll plan on

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getting to my office you know the church at you know a half hour ahead time and I I'll I'll take a 15 20 minute nap you

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know just so that I'm recharged to be able to kind of do therapy the rest of

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the day yeah and so it's funny that I find myself valuing the nap you know

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again just like to be able to get the rest yeah and it's funny

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how it's not funny it's almost a little sad that we're almost embarrassed to admit taking naps oh yeah

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and I guess in some ways I'm far less embarrassed sure and I think in some

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ways you know I'll I'll get i'll get ribbed or you know it's like you going back there to take a nap it's like yep

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got 15 minutes I you know set my little timer yeah and it's like yeah then I'm ready to take on you know it's it's

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fascinating because again our culture doesn't value that kind of rest but sometimes

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that is the most productive thing we can do for the next 20 minutes true right because it's essentially recharging your

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battery so that you can give the next things your full energy instead of your

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half depleted battery you know yes and rest can come in so

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many forms sure right so so what we're talking about is kind of this daily

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renewal yep napping right and I think that's there's a lot of value it doesn't

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of course have to be daily but just this idea that when the opportunity comes or

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I'm actually and I think I think that part um what as we're describing the

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napping also kind of ties in with the ability to have margin yes in my day

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yeah to the point that I'm not my my my

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timeline or my my Kronos day isn't just 15 minute you know one minute

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segments it's like it's like my digital watch you know I'm so mindful of what

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the time is and I yeah I lose track of what's before and after sometimes and I

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think you know if we're mindful of what's to come we need to be mindful of

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okay the energy that I have to get there but I think in the busyness we can be so

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caught up it's 1010 it's 1011 it's 10 and it's always this this

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frantic what I have to get done before it gets to 10:30 I have 15 minutes to

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get this done I have 10 minutes to get this done and I and I think that's where I'm

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at is this ability to we have to be mindful of what is

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necessary and create margin around it and I think you bring up when you bring up family you know I think that's an

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important part there because it's not just a nap it's the ability to set time

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aside to recharge and I think we can do

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that um we can do that in the sense of making time for vacation and so forth

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but how often have we you know does the joke go around it's like I gotta go back to work to rest up from

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vacation you know and and I'm not that's not a judgmental statement but it's just an

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interesting perspective we vacation like we work yes it's like we fill it up with

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an agenda and yeah I will say some of my favorite vacations in the last few have

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been in the last few years where we have gone to meet with my sister and her husband who is my best friend he he was

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my best man uh when I got married I was his best man they got married so we we

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go back way back and then they have five daughters and and the last couple

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vacations we said we we got we booked a cabin uhhuh in the mountains and we

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basically said especially the first time the the first time we did this we said I

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don't know about you but we just need to rechar like we we don't want a big

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agenda we like the idea of just sitting around talking with you guys watching the kids lightning fires you know like

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agenda free relaxed maybe even teetering on bored them and especially the kids

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like let them be bored you know let them figure it out let them you know oh nice and that was one of my favorite

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vacations I can remember wow cuz it was such a recharging and and man and I

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think we took one trip out of that cabin to go to a hiking trail or whatever and that was really fun but it was like you

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said there was so much margin around it it didn't it didn't ruin the vibe or whatever it I would say it enhanced it

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cuz when we got done I was like all right now we get to go back and relax again that was just really great and I

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think I think there's so much I mean it's kind of obvious to say but there's so much value in rest and I guess what I

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was getting at earlier is I think there's different kinds of rest right like there's kind of that daily renewal or semi daily rest that can happen and

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even nightly right we we rest and maybe some do it better than others and you

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know get their yeah but there's also periodic rest in terms of vacation and

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then there's seasonal rest and this is an interesting Dynamic that I'm starting

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to learn and appreciate because I've never been a fan of

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winter you know and this is something you know you and I have talked about in

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terms of seasonal depression is a thing for me and so like I see the days

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getting shorter I see the leaves falling and it's just very triggering for me and it's it's not like I think about all

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that on a daily base just something about it triggers my psyche to be like

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oh fun is ending you know the good stuff's ending all the life is dying you

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know I think it's very tied to the seasonal changes

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and the last I want to say this last winter is the first time I've tried to

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do this to reframe it wow and uh I actually was doing counseling with an

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online counselor last year which is kind of cool through Better Health this is not an ad yeah yeah you you hear better

19:07
about Better Health on other podcasts they're getting paid to say this and I am not it was cool to be able to have

19:13
that but but one of the things we talked about was this idea of seasonal depression and one of the things he

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mentioned was how those seasons are necessary and I think that was the first

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time that I'd ever gone oh oh yeah like I have to have winter you know like we

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have to hibernate we have to and so I started to try to look for what is it about

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winter that's important in my life and I think one of those things that I established this year working

19:49
through that process was rest sure like it's a season of rest the nights the

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days are shorter you're not going going going as much you're sitting and one of the things Megan jokes about

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as we talk about because we've talked about this is that it's time to play fortnite okay and so uh this last winter

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um me and my daughters and Joseph a little bit but he's it's not quite his thing yet I have I have a feeling he'll

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get into it more than the girls eventually but we would sit and we would play fortnite all day Saturday like we

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would just hang out and play fortnite and s those were such good times I mean it

20:30
was like that's why when I was talking about rest earlier I was talking about family it's there's something about

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being able to just be present without the need to be going somewhere else like

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with that time frame in your mind yeah both for me and my kids cuz my oldest daughter she is arguably more time

20:50
conscious than I am like she's very very responsible and she's very

20:55
good about keeping track of things and time and all that M um so just

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recognizing like even the value of seasonal rest sure and how when things

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are dying it means more rest you know what I mean yeah being able to translate that stuff

21:13
into the same value of rest I don't know what do you what do you think about no I I hadn't really thought about it from

21:20
that perspective I know you know yeah very much aware of the seasonal disorder and I and as as you were sharing on that

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you know you grew up in Minnesota you know I that that comes to

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mind you know it's like yeah almost Alaska no no I should have said

21:38
Minnesota Minnesota yeah but I was thinking about how that ties into what

21:44
winter is you know as how you see it and I what kind of reminded me is I can

21:53
admit in North Carolina I miss some of the seasons

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you know that we had that that I had growing up in Pennsylvania with the snow the leaves you know I mean granted

22:05
there's some of that here but it's a milder a much milder there's the the

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extremes aren't there if you will you know the extreme cold granted there's more heat here but I was just thinking

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about you know how sometimes in our lives we can move towards this Dynamic

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that seems more productive you know like from and I was

22:29
thinking about it from a seasonal Dynamic to moving down here it's like I

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didn't have those seasonal you know you didn't have to worry about the frost coming you don't have to worry about

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Frost here you don't have to build for it you don't have to you know store up for it you know because in our culture

22:50
everything's pretty much right here especially everything's pretty much available year round MH especially you

22:56
know with with the food industry you know you can you can get spinach all year round you know or whatever bananas

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you know that kind of thing but I was thinking about how the When Things become more

23:11
accessible or you know my day when the days are longer like you were saying we

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just tend to fill that with more and more to where now if it rains it really

23:22
stinks because I can't do all the things that I had planned on doing but yet there's something to be said for rainy

23:28
days and being able to play fortnite and you know other things like that re sit

23:34
down read a book or you know do something different I was just thinking about that and I I

23:41
appreciate that that mindfulness of you know what do what do the seasons offer

23:46
those shorter days and and that kind of thing and that ability to rest is one of

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those yeah you may when you mentioned rain rainy days you made me I kind of had a flashback back to when I uh I used

24:00
to paint paint houses with sure with people that you know friends from friends from family friends from church

24:06
whatever we part of their business and just remembering those days when it called for rain and we couldn't go to

24:12
work and just that like a Shucks you know like I we got we we have to stay

24:18
home today and it was bit week cuz we didn't get paid you know hourly work right so but just the like forced rest I

24:28
just just man I love those days and I you know in that I just in that job it

24:34
felt like we were always on the go always on the Move always behind always catching up always trying to get ahead

24:41
like it was kind of I think I felt more rushed in that work than I do even in the tech World

24:48
which is kind of like known for that I just always felt like we were we had to go go go go and I don't know if that was

24:56
that probably had tied into some of my need to get approval and like prove myself combined with um what was kind of

25:04
conveyed but um so those moments where you're forced to sit which again you're

25:10
kind of like if you're aware aware of the business you recognize like oh man now we're getting further behind or

25:16
whatever but at the same time there's nothing you can do about the rain like it's here you know yeah and uh yeah it's

25:25
just interesting to think about that that for dress sometimes sure yeah cuz I

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imagine you've experienced that too where you've had like you said you had this full yep day full week full

25:37
whatever and then the rain came and guess what just this week yeah just this week I mean it rained all day Monday

25:44
yeah you know and I had had it was supposed to be just a couple hour right yeah yeah but it was it was still a good

25:51
day you know and I think that's that's part of that difference granted I was able to you know catch up on some stuff

25:58
inside and continuing ed credits that kind of thing so it wasn't like it was a

26:04
a lost day you know in the sense of you know nonproductive but but yet it was it was

26:11
a different sense I was able to you know do some stuff that I wouldn't have been able to do you know otherwise and I

26:18
think there's there's value in that and even that term lost St mhm yeah

26:26
if we're resting is it you know what Ian mean like if like I know this isn't who

26:31
you are but if you were to say well it's raining so I'm going to sit around maybe read some books right

26:38
maybe you know I don't know like what would Mark do with the free day of not H

26:43
you know but we consider it a lost day yeah and I I recognize it wasn't and I

26:50
you know tend to but I'll be if I'm being

26:55
honest I wrestle with what I'm going to do I wrestle with that

27:03
non-productivity yes you know and and and it does seem counter to you know

27:10
getting stuff done making stuff happen and I think you know that's that's the

27:15
other side of that coin as we describe it you know it's it's like what is it about rest that makes it seem like I'm

27:23
not doing something like loss yeah and why where where does that come from that

27:30
idea that well I just have to be doing something all the time and I think you

27:36
know that's probably different or I know it's different for different people some people may not feel that at all but I'm

27:43
sure there are others who do feel that tremendously and it's like they like

27:49
like us if I may say so they probably struggle with that ability to set time

27:55
aside for rest yeah and you know and and it's and it's funny as we think about it

28:00
you know even God had you know recognized that we he

28:06
needed not that he needs of course but you know he took that that day to rest

28:12
after creation we know that and then in order you know he set the

28:17
pattern and then mandated it through the Sabbath right sure um to the point where

28:24
he said I know you guys aren't going to do this unless I say this day is Holy and you're trouble if you don't do

28:30
it yeah because there's there's two sides to that number one we need rest

28:35
and he that's how he designed it and number two we don't want to rest you know obviously doesn't go for everyone

28:42
but I think generally our bent is towards like you said not losing the day

28:48
right and I think there's something to be said too for that Dynamic that says you know cultures you know or even

28:56
businesses that actually build rest into the schedule actually end up being you

29:03
know the days become more productive for individuals who have rest built into

29:09
their schedule than people who are working seven days a week you know that kind of thing and never have that

29:16
builtin rest because I do think you know our minds get tired our bodies get tired

29:24
and we just lose productivity yeah without rest I think we're

29:30
designed yeah to have rest and I you know I there again I think part of that

29:36
comes from our our technological World maybe that tends to drive us you know

29:42
versus our forefather well I think of all electricity and how electricity changed our world yeah you know we have

29:49
artificial light to be able to you know it's not it's not every day or well you

29:55
can go into most any City and you can find a construction site because it's all just lit up and so there's you know

30:03
generators and so forth to be able to create light to work around the clock if

30:08
we need to and yet you know I recognize that's a shift Dynamic and not all those

30:13
people are working around the same people are working around the clock but I just I just think about it from that

30:18
perspective and saying okay how much harder is it you know to find rest as we

30:27
become more Advanced to a certain degree yeah because I think we're always

30:32
optimizing for productivity right sure in every way in

30:38
technology you know right uh apps on your phone you know like it everything I

30:44
mean that's one of the biggest cells you can put on any product is makes you more productive right in one way or another

30:50
you know increases productivity books will help you increase your productivity you know we're always optimizing and

30:58
even you know you mentioned our forefathers whatever but even I think of daylight savings time was specifically

31:05
created and implemented to optimize for productivity sure right yeah so that we

31:11
had more Daylight uh s daylight time to work in the course of a day and we're

31:18
always I think optimizing for that right yeah yeah I uh came across this this

31:26
quote I wanted to sh share yeah it's from a poet Mar Mary Sarten on the

31:32
importance of rest she said I always forget how important the empty days are how important it may be sometimes not to

31:40
expect to produce anything even a few lines in a journal a day when one has

31:46
not pushed oneself to the Limit seems a damaged damaging day a sinful day not so

31:53
the most valuable thing one can do for the psych psyche occasionally is to let it rest wander live in the changing

32:01
light of a room and I just thought that last phrase was

32:06
so you know evokes a certain feeling of I think what even what you just like

32:12
almost boredom but to re and you know you were talking about different words for time

32:19
Kronos you mentioned earlier but also chyros I think where it's more living in

32:24
the moment yeah moment in in the moment right and I think about that changing light of the

32:31
room and seeing the little dust particles in the sun sure you know what I'm talking about yeah and just being

32:36
able to witness that single moment and and and being able to sit in

32:43
that moment long enough to see it transition into another moment changing

32:48
light yeah yes that's what came to it takes time I'm able to sit long enough

32:55
to where the I see the the difference in the sun coming through the window

33:01
horizontally and I watch it shift as the sun rises and it's like the room takes on

33:08
different nuances in that amount of time and I and even just sitting I'm allow

33:14
I'm able to see things differently yeah if I'm not in that push push rush rush

33:24
and there is a I I really appreciate that you know the rest and the

33:30
wandering you know allowing there there is something to be said for allowing my mind to wander even and the rest that

33:39
creates and I and I think we do have to slow down and I think the wandering of our

33:47
minds can be you know not just recharging but um a

33:54
creating a vision you know a a dreaming if you will that that's recognizes that

34:02
my life is bigger than just the Kronos time but there are these moments built

34:09
of moments yes and when I'm in in that moment I actually lose track of time in

34:16
a positive way yeah and I don't think we always build enough of that

34:23
in yeah and yeah it's it's in those moments as well

34:32
that we can quote unquote time travel partly because we can slow down time

34:37
right CU I think when you're sitting in the changing of the light of the room it feels like time just crawled to a stop

34:43
you know I think it's so that's a unique experience and it's interesting because

34:50
this just happened the other day where were oh Megan and I took a trip uh so a

34:58
weekend trip together and went to Myrtle Beach we were there kind of Saturday

35:04
afternoon uh stayed there overnight and then we're there all day Sunday stayed there overnight and then the next day

35:10
drove um we actually drove to Raleigh and went to a different event a concert

35:16
um it was just a long a fun long weekend and it was like both of us were like these this day

35:23
is so long like what do we do with this whole like we were both just

35:29
so almost shocked that we were like what should we do now you and uh we're like

35:37
well we went we went to the mall and we bought too much stuff so we probably shouldn't keep doing this for another

35:43
day or whatever we ate we're full we're it's not like we're ready for the next

35:48
meal so then we're like well let's go to a movie so we went to a movie and then that got done it's like well I'm not

35:54
quite hungry now what do we do and it was just this unique experience of wow

36:00
yeah I forgot what this feels like you know and I don't know it I guess it made

36:05
me think of that when I was thinking about how time seemed to crawl to like a near almost like it felt like it stopped

36:13
and I think there was just I I wouldn't say we were bored I think it was more

36:18
just like this is interesting and restful and um I don't know it's I think

36:24
if I were to do another day I'd be like crawling in my skin like ah let's do like let's go back home let's whatever

36:33
um but it was it was good and speaking of time travel you know I

36:38
was thinking about this too in those moments of rest downtime is when we're

36:44
able to dream yeah right and that happens like physically literally when

36:50
we rest sure right yeah yeah like real dreams but also happens

36:55
figuratively in terms of our rest and rest time and that's when we're able to

37:00
stop for a minute and look time travel to the Future and we you know like we

37:05
talked about in our mission statement one about how beginning with the end in mind yeah in order to do that you have

37:11
to stop being where you are and go way down there to where you want to be and figure out take a look around yeah right

37:19
time travel exactly and think about okay if I want my life to look like this how

37:25
do I get there and and kind of reverse engineering that process and that's what beginning with the end

37:31
in mind is but this but the idea is you don't get there without taking some time

37:38
that isn't quote unquote productive yeah right because when your mind's occupied with the current task you're not able to

37:45
think those thoughts correct and stepen cvy described it as a habit or a quadrant 2 activity so quadrant one is

37:52
the important and Urgent it's the things that are you know you have to act on right now that're important it's your job it's the next task on your to-do

38:00
list um maybe right you might sure um but quadrant 2 is important but not

38:06
urgent sure and often it's we we don't give enough time to allow quadrant two

38:14
activities to happen and I think that's rest is a big part of that no doubt um

38:19
now obviously if you're always doing quadrant 2 during your rest time I don't think you're doing rest right either but there is something to that right yeah um

38:27
and I think the the phrase the tyranny of the Urgent you know I think that's where we get caught up in that quadrant

38:34
we can spend a lot of time in quadrant one yes just because there can be or are

38:42
so many things that seem as if they're urgent so that's three quadrant three is

38:48
okay urgent but not important there you go and so what happens right is we spend

38:54
so much time in one and three yeah combination of the two sure that we burn

39:01
out and we we dip into Quadrant 4 which is not important not urgent so then it's

39:07
like I need to refill I'm going to just go watch movies all day long SP on

39:12
Netflix right fortnite fortnite yeah just Facebook that yeah Facebook like

39:19
the endless scrolling right scrolling the scrolling the scrolling scrolling it's like it's not important it's not

39:25
urgent but your brain just needs a break and this is what you're doing to quote unquote give it a Break um and it's this

39:33
like you said the tyranny of the urgent because you're in quadrant one and three sure most of your time and go ahead so

39:41
and this is for for everybody listening or for me even myself you know to the to the point uh there's four quadrants then

39:48
that you're talking about it's like a like a window pane if you will divided into four sections and one has to do

39:56
with the the urgent and necessary urgent and important urgent and important okay

40:02
and three so that would be like you have to take your kid to the hospital the things that only you can do right and

40:10
it's it's it needs to happen now got and it needs to happen like it is the thing you should do right now sure you should

40:17
never stop doing quadrant one I got you no that's and that's where I'm that's where I'm working to is this this

40:23
balance because I'm hearing that four isn't necessarily as advantageous but it's a default if you

40:31
will yeah from spending too much time in one where it is important it's urgent

40:37
and it's important and three it's urgent but not important right and often we

40:43
conflate importance urgency with importance exactly right that's where the the tyranny of that comes from it's

40:50
like it's it's all important right everything's important right and so

40:55
therefore we don't pull back because I have too much important stuff to do and

41:02
we spend very little time in quadrant 2 right which was Define that for me again

41:07
so quadrant 2 is important but not urgent gotcha and the irony is the less

41:17
time you spend in quadrant 2 the more quadrant 1 and three take over sure

41:23
quadrant 2 allows you to build in the margin that you needed allows you to determine what is important so then

41:30
quadrant 3 becomes less you know less it takes up less space because you

41:36
recognize what is actually important in life it's a prioritizing it's a prioritizing yeah sure yep and it builds

41:43
in margin and it builds it and what I think what he would argue is that we spend less time in quadrants three and

41:52
four instead spend that time in two so going back to what quadrant 2 being not

41:59
urgent but important and that's where quadrant 2 activities happen like planning like dreaming like organizing

42:07
um so ideally we want to find a sort of a sort of balance if you would between

42:14
one and two those yeah those be the ideal yeah yeah yeah and of course he wouldn't say

42:21
Leisure is not no no whatever but if you properly plan for you know if if you

42:26
have yeah if you're not reactively Quadrant 4 like SC it's not a default because I've

42:34
just completely burn out and this is all I want to do it's not to say that I can't spend time scrolling Facebook but

42:42
yet even then I'm still mindful of how much time I've already spent here right

42:48
I'm here for a moment to see what my friends and family are doing but then

42:53
I'm able to move on because it's not that my mind just needs that rest and

43:00
I'm and I'm using that as a default it's it's a combination of your mind needing

43:05
rest and your also your mind's inability to say no so other things happen in Quadrant 4

43:12
too that are less you know uh uh innocent right because that's where we

43:20
fall back that's where we can fall into bad habits or even create bad habits because it's in that place where your

43:26
mind just can't it doesn't have it's it's a agency if you will right it's

43:33
that it's that point where I can't handle it or I can't do this anymore so

43:40
I may fall into a habit or a hangup of sorts and that can become a pattern yeah

43:47
yeah I hear where you're coming from for that because I just I just don't necessarily find myself having the

43:54
energy to fight off or make the a positive decision a healthy decision and

44:01
I'm just kind of going to my default mechanisms right and then sometimes we slip backwards into a habit where it's

44:09
like you know like let's use drinking for instance right and it's

44:15
like you you kind of have you have a drink or two or whatever it's like I just need it to separate from work and

44:22
so that provides that but then you find like oh this provides is kind of an off

44:28
switch to my workday Y and it's really effective sure so I can go go go go go

44:33
and then off switch yep and all of a sudden you need that off switch yep

44:39
there's nothing you can do besides that switch to Make It Stop So now that switch is mandatory in Life or whatever

44:47
yeah and now you know we're veering off of rest and all that but I think well I think it's the importance

44:53
of having rest and finding that balance that

44:58
that keeps us from choosing those off switches where we want to find rest

45:06
instantly right I think that's that's that's part of what we're talking about is if I'm able to find that margin build

45:15
that margin you know have a mission if you will that allows there to be margin

45:21
right then I'm not necessarily looking for those instant offs yeah because I

45:27
I'm not only shutting off work I'm shutting off other things as well right

45:32
and I think at that point it's it's important for us to decipher the two

45:38
yeah and you know I have a good friend that I it's kind of the inverse of this

45:43
I I described it with him like limiting the chaos right making decisions to help

45:49
you know life decisions what what job you work at you know uh what things you

45:55
allow in your household just whatever that making DEC decisions to limit the

46:00
chaos because sometimes you're not at a point where it's uh I just have to do more quadrant 2 activity sometimes it's

46:08
about stopping the geyser right that's just bursting it's like what can I do to

46:14
plug this hole okay let's plug this one okay and like uh I call I call it limiting the chaos because I think

46:21
sometimes that's where you're at you know but you can't get to rest until you're if if you do have that going on

46:27
kind of that geyser situation you can't get to the other side to rest until you start limiting some of that chaos and so

46:34
taking baby steps towards that and to towards a future where rest is an option

46:40
you know I me yeah um yeah yeah I think as when you say the geysers I think

46:47
about the plate spinner you know that you know we we think there's so many plates and we got to keep them spinning

46:53
and it's like sometimes the best thing we can do maybe is let one or two of those plates just kind of not spin

46:59
anymore yeah and recognize or somebody else can spin those plates and it's not

47:05
it's not that important for me and it can stop so yeah yeah and in some cases

47:14
like for instance what job you work at or something like that or a friendship you have this particular job or this

47:21
particular friendship asks you to hold 12 plates and it's like there's this

47:26
other job that might ask you to hold three which is a reasonable number sure you know on a daily basis but this

47:33
particular job that you're quote unquote stuck in or whatever is asking you to spend 12 yeah that's a way to limit

47:40
chaos right so that's yeah so like yeah it's interesting I like the plate analogy too yeah but so any closing

47:50
thoughts no I mean I think you and I are in the same boat in that we're learning

47:55
the value of rest but I wouldn't say say we're experts at it no doubt I think you and I both maybe struggle

48:01
with with needing to Value it more you think I I agree with that and I think

48:07
there's a desire on our part to extend an

48:13
invitation to who those that might be listening to be able to say okay yeah

48:20
we're finding out that rest is valuable and it's okay so extend your s that

48:28
opportunity that Grace if you will to be able to say okay do I need to find a

48:34
little more rest in my day and and I think you know as we do I think we find

48:41
more productivity yeah not not that productivity is the goal you know it's

48:48
it's like I just SP it back we been try and sell rest with you'll be more

48:54
productive no doubt but I think for me I agree that's that's what it has come

49:00
back to it's like as I do find time for rest I'm a better me I guess is a is a

49:09
way to avoid the productivity speak but I'm a better me yeah for those around me

49:17
that's good because you're right it's not just about coming out of a good rest session to be okay now I can go go it's

49:24
about thinking better yeah and so making better prioritized decisions which

49:30
sometimes don't involve productivity they involve spending a moment with this person yep which we wouldn't consider

49:37
productive but it's a rested mind recognizes the importance of those

49:42
moments that's a I like how you spun that I try it is funny how we naturally

49:48
gravitate towards selling productivity it's

49:53
good fair enough well that's how we see it that's how we see it now go get some coffee and wake

50:02
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