0:04
that’s what I thought about the week do do you believe in a in a in a ice age do

0:09
you think I should turn the air conditioner on yeah I probably should please

0:17
hold beep shutting down well I think it

0:22
kept recording that’s okay you get to experience uh some lack of preparation

0:28
the pre-session yeah uh you mentioned Ice Age and I

0:33
thought oh I forgot to turn the air condition exactly exactly do I believe there is an ice AG

0:40
[Music] yeah welcome to how I see it with me

0:49
Mark Pratt and Justin Sternberg this is a podcast that works to

0:54
countercultural polarization through thoughtful conversations

1:05
so I don’t know I mean I don’t know

1:13
if okay this gets to a bigger bigger thought slash question yeah which

1:19
is can God create something to look like it was something sure like this is a

1:26
discussion I had with a friend recently and you know talking about creation ISM and science Big Bang Evolution Etc right

1:36
right and so often we get stuck in kind of the Christian world of saying the

1:43
Earth can only be 10,000 years old or whatever because the timelines have to

1:48
fit what we our perception of what the Bible is saying about creation so my

1:54
question has always been why can’t God create an 8 million year old earth like

2:00
that right with an ice age in the history as well or whatever that P all

2:06
the dinosaurs you know all the stuff that we find you know yeah when Adam was created

2:14
was he you know a fetus no he’s a he God created an old man you know not old you

2:22
know but you know what I’m saying a developed develop he was an adult male y

2:27
he wasn’t yeah he wasn’t an infant wasn’t yeah

2:32
yeah so that I I guess that’s what I mean maybe in some ways I think it it

2:38
probably does come back to we can probably even simplify that topic of

2:44
creationism versus you know evolution in in a way of almost maybe young Earth old

2:49
Earth Viewpoint you know does the Earth have to be billions and you know well in

2:56
some ways if I’m being honest you know years a ago Millions now it’s billions

3:02
you know it just there is that process of evolution in itself that just needs

3:08
more time as as technology as we understand the

3:14
complexities of Our Lives you know and I and I was I was thinking about it you

3:20
know it was a well I told you we had a fox attack yeah last week you know and I

3:26
was on the chicken it hit the chicken yeah and they got three of them no it

3:32
lost two but the other one the it reminded me of Mary Beth because the

3:39
other one um got a chunk of its neck oh you know but it was interesting because

3:45
I I looked at it and it’s like man what do I do and you know and and Mary Beth’s

3:50
podcast you know our body has a way of you know if you give it what it needs it heals itself and you know and that night

3:57
Lizzie and I got together and you know we Stitch that chicken’s neck up you know with some dental floss

4:03
and you know a needle and it’s like I’ve been watching this

4:09
process of that chicken recover wow you know and it’s like yeah okay you know

4:17
from my perspective that’s a you know that god-given healing and yet I would recognize you

4:24
know there’s there’s this and I it’s it’s neat for me because I can

4:30
understand from the chickens as I look at the chickens I can understand how

4:35
evolutionists would put you know uh birds and and reptiles together because

4:43
when I look at that chicken I it’s like their feet they’re almost like scales you know like a reptile you know but

4:50
they’re they have feathers like a bird you know and I can understand how you know to make sense of that evolutionary

4:58
Dynamic you know well these two things happened at the same time and yet I

5:04
still see it personally as an aspect of all of the creativity you know can go

5:12
into you know the creation and so therefore you know this animal has

5:18
characteristics of this animal and you know and we have characteristics of some

5:24
animals even you know just because of that what I would call The Creation process

5:30
and you know for me personally I just struggle with the complexity that we

5:36
have as male female to be an evolutionary process as far as you know

5:42
it from me the aspect of creation makes more sense from a male female Dynamic

5:49
that God created them in the beginning you know male and female so therefore

5:56
you know we have this you know wonderful way to be able to relate to one another

6:03
you know physically emotionally you know spiritually sexually all of that because

6:09
it was all part of a design and it wasn’t just something that you know

6:15
worked itself out worked itself out or you know it’s like from my

6:21
perspective how many how many quote unquote males and females had to die off

6:28
before there was a this combination that came together that actually worked you

6:33
know in such a way that said okay yeah this is this is male and this is female

6:39
from a you know from all aspects of our human bodies that kind of thing but yeah

6:46
that I guess that’s why I was because I just I wrestle with that because I

6:52
honestly talked with you know I remember a lot of discussions with you know and

6:57
people far more intelligent than I by far you know who would say you know yeah

7:03
I believe there’s I believe I believe in some ways there can be old Earth

7:09
characteristics and you know and I and I still I value those opinions but I’m

7:15
kind of more like you you know the fact that um you know fossil fuels and

7:20
diamonds and so forth that can be created in part of the creation as

7:27
is yeah and I think that’s what you were referring to the eight million year

7:33
older earth right at the snap of a finger type thing and to me that like if

7:41
if if you’re going to choose to believe in creationism

7:46
creationism you have to believe in a being so powerful so

7:52
ginormous no matter what level of creation you you believe if if you believe it was designed and created by a

7:58
creator whether he created it one kajillion years ago and set it in motion

8:04
and you know it’s like the watch pieces in a box that you shook around for8 kajillion years and eventually formed

8:09
into a watch or you believe that you know he created all just like that the

8:16
ginor of this being that you believe in yes is capable of anything right like

8:24
especially from our feeble brains I hear you depending on what again what you believe about this particular deity of

8:30
course I believe in a personal personally in God and like that he is all powerful like we talked about in

8:38
recently but um so so then nothing

8:44
is inexplainable where I think sometimes we get in locked

8:51
down to well it has to be this way because the Bible said seven days or it

8:56
has to be this way um be because I have to be able to explain it you know I have to be able to

9:03
understand it yeah or I have to be able to fit it fit it right somehow yeah and

9:10
again I just think why why couldn’t he why couldn’t why didn’t I should say why didn’t cuz I

9:16
think he did why didn’t he create this you know world that is 8 million years

9:23
old with all the patterns and all and so and part of the reason I say this is

9:28
because there’s a lot of things we pin to the flood we say oh that was because the flood um that’s why this is this way

9:35
and this and I feel like a lot of that stuff makes so much sense and you’re like oh yeah that the Earth was covered

9:41
and whatever and you know there’s a lot of scientific explanation that believe

9:46
you scientists who are believers will do based on the worldwide flood of Noah’s day and I think it’s fascinating I love

9:53
it but then there are some things they say that’s like that feels like a stretch that feels more like just part

9:59
of his creation that creating an old Earth or whatever um can you give me an

10:05
example just out of curiosity not off hand it’s been a while

10:10
since and and ultimately I’m not claiming to be a scientist who knows better than whatever I’m just saying the

10:16
answers are not that uh Out Of Reach for me because I believe

10:23
and such a big God that he can create exactly what you’re seeing you you’re seeing you know like I said a kajillion

10:30
year old Universe you’re seeing there’s a there’s a the web telescope did you hear about that no i’ be FC a new uh

10:38
like a Hubble Telescope but brand F brand new Fancy Pants one they sent up

10:43
and it’s going out much further than Hubble and we just got back the first picture from it yesterday and they released the first picture and it was

10:50
it’s really really cool um I’m going to keep talking and try and look it up so I

10:56
can show you in the and we’ll have to put it in the show notes yeah

11:02
um I can’t talk well I’m I’m I’m thinking about it from a from a space

11:07
technology type thing because I think there are there are interesting things when we think about you know an in a Old

11:16
World versus new world because I think it comes together at times when we

11:22
Factor science into it when we go to outer space it’s like uh I think of the um was it the not the r but uh the lunar

11:30
lander that they you know early on in the space era you know they had the they

11:37
put those big huge pods on the bottom of it so when it landed it wouldn’t just

11:43
fall into this millions of years of dust particles that are on the moon and then

11:50
they realized oh you know the dust wasn’t nearly as thick as we figured for

11:57
based on a million year old Earth you know because they had such big pods on

12:02
that on the feet because they expected when it landed there should be they had

12:09
calculated for how much dust should be on the moon because when we think about it you know and so that’s kind of where

12:15
I come from at times is how that that conflict of what I think should be

12:24
sometimes proves itself not to be right you know and I and I and I I’m always

12:29
interested so when you when you were talking about space that’s automatically what came to mind for me is it’s like

12:36
this process of okay which which which direction does it go how does it lean

12:42
you know and I and and granted we all pick up those those tidbits if you will

12:48
that are part of our confirmation bias if you will that says oh yeah that explains that justifies what I believe

12:57
and yet I’m it’s not my desire do that but I just whenever I hear you know little tidbits like that it’s

13:03
fascinating to me how sometimes you know my my view can get so stuck in what

13:11
something is that it’s only until I come up against something that my view can’t

13:18
explain that I really have to say hm okay what do I think about this and

13:23
that’s why I was asking you you know about that but back to the uh back to the uh

13:29
yeah thec the telescope picture you have to check it out it’s is really cool it is cool so this picture which we will

13:37
post which we will post is you know just a grid a square basically but it’s just

13:44
filled with stars and if you look closer there’s tons of galaxies in there and they’re saying this picture represents

13:52
like a grain of sand size like if you hold a grain of sand in your hand out in front of you get your arm stretched out

13:58
and you’re hold in grain of sand you look at that grain of sand that’s how much of the sky this picture is sure it’s kind of like a pixel if you will in

14:05
a picture it’s just a very small square right and yet you can’t count the number

14:10
of galaxies and stars you see it’s just so cool wow and you know the farther we

14:17
it reminds me of those I spy books that you look at the page is so full that’s true you know it’s like oh there’s a

14:23
there’s a gold one there’s a blue one there’s a orange one there you know or you ever play those magic do those Magic

14:29
Eye where you have to stare at them to develop the cross your eye pull it yeah yeah yeah it’s kind of like that this is

14:37
more developed than that but yeah I hear if you cross your eyes and pull back I wonder if we’ll see aliens in this

14:42
picture there you go it might spell something am I Yahweh that’s

14:49
right um no but what’s so cool about this is essentially the farther you see

14:56
which is represents far right because it’s it’s it’s light I don’t know it’s

15:02
hard to explain but basically what they’re saying is these are pictures of the the oldest pictures of the universe

15:08
that we have and you think oldest that doesn’t make sense when you look at a picture but it’s because the farther you

15:15
know a source of light is from you when you see it sure the old you know that’s

15:21
how old that’s how time is measured yeah and in the ability that light so the amount of time it took for these this

15:28
pieces these pieces of light to get to that telescope me they’re saying this is as close to the beginning of the Big

15:34
Bang as we’ve ever seen right oh gotta does that make sense sure yeah yeah uh it’s a little bit mindbending when you

15:41
think about it but that’s the when you think about how far these things are away yeah and considering where we’ve

15:48
gone further this telescope has gone further than we’ve ever gone before and

15:54
yet that light is still reached that area that that’s further back into our

16:01
history the history of the earth if you will or the Galaxy the universe Excuse me yes than we’ve ever been before yeah

16:10
yeah it’s it’s it’s counterintuitive if you don’t think about this stuff much because you think you turn you flip the

16:15
light switch on it’s instantly light so you think oh Stars that’s what they look like right now but they’re so far away

16:21
sure that it’s not it’s what they look like eight bajillion years ago or whatever their number they they make up

16:28
right yeah and when you factor in that speed of light 186,000 m per second you

16:35
know roughly that’s a light year yeah it’s like that’s how far it’s not it’s

16:40
not six feet across the room that that light has traveled so even to think about it that far yeah in a second yeah

16:50
and realize this is yeah a lot further than that yeah so yeah you factor that

16:56
light years of time in there is a fascinating it is thing to so like

17:02
looking at this some of these orbs it’s like that’s not what this one looks like right now that’s what that one looks

17:08
like yeah you know I don’t know whatever number a long time ago in reality some

17:14
of these might not even be right exactly is the reality of it by the time the

17:19
light traveled that far yep but that’s how it was at that point when the light

17:26
was emitted yeah yes here here’s one of it says this image shows the Galaxy cluster smack

17:35
0723 as it appeared 4.6 billion years ago with many more galaxies in front of

17:41
and behind the cluster uh yeah and that this this like I said this is the first picture they’ve

17:47
released but yeah they’re saying 4.6 billion years ago yeah right the that’s what

17:52
the these are old pictures you know yeah or or so a set yeah yes exactly and and

18:00
and I think that’s where we run into I I think that becomes the frustration on

18:06
both sides at times is that is purported

18:11
as fact right you follow me and it’s like well is there a possibility and I

18:18
and I don’t want to minimize personal relationship but I think from a

18:25
theoretical standpoint I like I do like what you know other people have done

18:30
with intelligent design mhm you follow me I I’m not saying that God isn’t personal and

18:38
Desiring but I think as a theory for educational purposes you know

18:45
intelligent design needs to be a part of that discussion right versus just saying

18:51
no it’s this way it’s an equal equally viable Faith as what’s being taught sure

18:59
right because we cannot prove so much of what is T as fact yes right it’s all

19:06
theoretical it’s science which is great right but like you said the um

19:12
intelligent design is equally viable yes it explains things and you know we would

19:18
argue way better right it explains things much EAS more easily when you go

19:24
how can this be well it was created by a being beyond your imagination

19:30
anded it to be exactly like this to the detail you know to the cork detail and

19:38
Beyond right that’s how yeah and it’s it’s much simpler when you when you can

19:44
go oh yeah okay so it’s just designed that way that actually explains so much

19:49
right that it was designed that way you know uh as opposed to well somehow it

19:56
just stuck all the parts of a watch in a box yeah and you started shaking it for

20:03
4.6 billion years plus and you open the box and look at that there’s there’s a

20:09
watch it’s it’s created you know and not only is there a watch but it’s talking

20:14
it’s a talking watch with a soul and a heart a smart watch it’s a smart watch

20:20
Smart Watch yeah and so if you refuse to believe in an

20:28
intelligent design which is not even

20:33
um you don’t have to believe in deity to believe in intelligent design correct you know you don’t have to believe in

20:40
yeah I think I think you know once you get to a point of from my perspective

20:46
understanding intelligent design I think you have to ask that question you know what is the purpose purpose yeah of this

20:54
creation you don’t have to as a scientist you don’t have to that’s correct or I guess really anybody but

20:59
yeah you’re right natural Next Step yes it’s like when I see these stars out

21:05
there what is the purpose and I think that adds to the ginormic as you you

21:10
know and yet still the relationship that this is created for us

21:16
to be able to see in such a way that demonstrates re a desire for

21:22
relationship yeah yeah and I and I you know and unfortunately I think there is a

21:29
there is a connector to where as we you know I’ll say devalue

21:36
relationship you know with technology and that kind of thing and you know it’s like if this is was it four billion 4

21:43
billion 4.6 billion you know then it it I I have to call I think there’s the

21:50
other end of the spectrum I have to call a bunch of things into question as far

21:56
as what is my purpose what is is my value if I’m just on a just in a box

22:03
that got shook together do I have a purpose in that is there you know and I

22:09
think that leads to other questions as far as you know you know just the the

22:14
value of our lives in that am I am is am I here for a

22:22
reason or am I just here as part of a biological process C of the creation I

22:31
mean excuse me of the of evolution you know I’m I’m just part of the steps to

22:38
get to the next step the next Evolution the next phase you know that kind of

22:45
thing because I think if that’s I can understand a certain hopelessness that would go along with

22:51
that and I think that’s where that’s sad for me sometimes when I think about that

22:57
and yeah yeah yeah and you know scientists don’t

23:03
necessarily have the time to ask all those questions or answer them for you so you’re left grappling you know this

23:10
4.6 billion light years wide universe that we are able to observe and we’re alone and this all happened by chance

23:17
and yeah it’s like yeah those existential struggles are left to

23:22
everyone else which you know whe yeah yeah I think you you can

23:30
struggle with some existential stuff whether you believe in you know sure an

23:35
intelligent design or not but no doubt yeah yeah I I agree that we can struggle

23:42
with purpose you know I think for me you know I think four fundamentals are those

23:49
aspects of acceptance identity security and purpose you know I think everybody

23:56
you know has has those four or struggles to a certain degree where do I go for

24:02
acceptance where do I go you know what who am I what is my identity you know

24:08
where does security come from what is the purpose of my life here you know

24:13
what am I to do that kind of thing and I think everybody has that struggle yeah

24:19
but I think you know where you looked where where you look or have looked you

24:26
know to find those things kind of helps develop who we

24:31
are yeah absolutely and I think you know that factors into this you know the

24:38
discussion and maybe even moving back to the discussion a little more as far as you know creation versus the Evolution

24:45
or the young Earth versus the old Earth because I think you know even in creation Dynamics you can have a younger

24:52
view or an older view and that’s that’s where the questions come from yeah

24:59
yeah and yeah we we get very tied to the

25:06
creation narrative in Genesis and i’ I’ve heard some very

25:12
compelling talks about how that’s a poem written by yeah and so it’s it’s meant

25:18
to evoke certain poetic uh understanding versus like a

25:26
literal but you know the doing the talk on this and explaining this that’s their

25:31
Theory as much as it you know and I think what I love about the idea that

25:38
God is big enough yeah is that it doesn’t really matter right

25:44
um if if Genesis is literal I believe it’s possible if it’s just a poem that

25:50
kind of figuratively explains how an artist perceived it happening that

25:58
doesn’t does hurt me my feelings either you know because I I believe that he did create us and that’s throughout the

26:04
whole Bible that is truth that we can easily hold to you know depend it

26:10
doesn’t matter the origins and yet I definitely know a lot people who

26:18
struggle with if that’s not true what is you know what I mean which I understand that perspective too if you make it a

26:24
poem then what else is figurative whatever else is a poem I understand

26:30
where you’re coming from with that and I think I’m not necessarily saying I think it’s a poem but I think that’s an

26:35
interesting theory that I I’m not afraid of I guess yeah it doesn’t create a knee-jerk reaction within you if someone

26:43
yeah now that’s a good point too yeah yeah to be able to say oh

26:50
yeah you’re you’re attacking my view of what you know Genesis is and you know

26:59
and that’s yeah another fascinating part it’s a well you know speaking of

27:04
polarization I mean it’s a very polarized thing MH both I mean obviously two polars being intelligent design and

27:12
you know just natural selection Evolution that whole you know kind of those are two polar ends right yeah one

27:17
or the other um but then with even within Christian circles like young

27:23
Earth old Earth you know all of these things there’s so many polers and so many like yeah

27:28
areas to feel attacked in yeah really and I think it’s interesting too I mean

27:35
I when we had our uh our free will you know podcast released and it and it’s

27:42
interesting too even when I think about you know how God initially created the

27:47
Earth and from my perspective the intelligent design it’s like I do believe you know that based on what we

27:54
have you know there was the I I am a a uh a proponent of the canopy Theory you

28:01
know that the Earth was created with a water canopy around it that very very

28:06
much like a you know a greenhouse and you know and you know in Genesis it talks about how springs came

28:14
up from the ground to water the Earth and that’s what made it faith for Noah

28:19
you know because he had never seen it rain before so to have to build this Arc you know and it it’s like I go ahead and

28:27
that you know that I also I think that’s a great Theory and I like it I don’t you know yeah but and a lot they talk a lot

28:35
about that’s how people live to be thousands of years old that’s how dinosaurs existed that’s how so many

28:41
things were possible was a result of this thick water vapor canopy over yeah

28:47
yeah which I think is really fascinating and it was the source of the water from the flood right like that yes it

28:53
provided the source when when scripture refers to the the window of Heaven

28:58
opened up you know that that you know explains this canopy Theory and you know

29:04
and that’s why we have you know woolly mammoths at the North Pole with you know fruit leaves in their mouths and so

29:10
forth because of this whole you know Greenhouse type Dynamic now do I do I

29:15
hitch all my horses to that wagon you know no and you know but exactly but at

29:22
the same time you know it does when I think about how okay we still have these

29:28
aquifers today you know in and around you know that are underneath you know

29:35
the you know throughout the United States that you know that’s where our source of water comes from still yeah

29:41
you know so it’s not a it’s not a stretch for me to think you know that was and the fact that yeah but I think

29:49
about it from the aspect of even that was still part of the design

29:56
whether it was or whether it wasn’t you know God had a plan whether that’s how

30:01
he did it whether that’s not how he did it you know it’s like it’s still kind of

30:07
fascinating to think about that yeah it could be all of that and still even more

30:15
and yes you know there is the reality that you know in that whole timeline men

30:21
and dinosaurs existed at the same time you know and we don’t have to have this

30:27
you know well one came for the other you know with the intelligent design Dynamic

30:32
and you know I I don’t I don’t want to come across that I’m bashing one or the

30:38
other but I think you know if if we want I believe I have to be able to look at

30:45
science in such a way that says okay this picture’s four billion years old

30:50
and yet if I’m going to do that I want somebody else to be able to say yeah but what about what do we do with this when

30:56
we go back and we see you know human Footprints next to dinosaur footprints

31:02
at the same time you know what what what does science say about that you know

31:09
because then that messes with our evolutionary our big bang or how do we you know how do we have a orbit in the

31:16
process of a big bang you know when when you blow stuff up it’s pretty linear you

31:23
know from that epicenter of the explosion and granted that’s a limited mindset on my part I admit that but yet

31:31
I see this you know this what what’s the process when

31:37
something um has a tremendous order and it becomes more chaotic chaotic entropy

31:43
I think yes yes it’s something something to that there’s laws that go with that

31:50
process nothing gets more design constructed or yeah it’s clean yes Etc

31:58
it’s a it’s a process of the chaos over time and there’s there’s a dynamic name

32:05
I think associated with that but I’m not able to bring it up right at the moment I think it’s a law of entropy right I

32:10
don’t know I’m Googling it right now it could very well be it sounds right it sounds close in

32:17
intelligent which is close enough no I’m Googling it we’re g to find out right I leave the intelligent stuff to you

32:23
second law of thermody Dynamics entropy is Central the second law which states that the energy of isolated systems left

32:31
to spontaneous pause pause spontaneous

32:37
where’ It Go you’re in charge of Technology my friend we were reading the Google snippet but it didn’t have all of

32:44
it so we got the ellipse and we lost it this is it though but yes being able

32:52
to recognize that yeah in the process of

32:58
life we don’t see things getting more organized and you know I think that that

33:05
from that perspective becomes a difficult part for me to say okay time

33:11
doesn’t just make it all go away right and the fact that we have to have more

33:17
time and more time to explain some of these things just makes it less credible

33:23
for me over time mhm yeah

33:29
even time is not

33:34
when if if we’re going to believe in a being who can have created this universe

33:41
then we also have to understand that time was a construct designed by him

33:48
completely malleable in his hands right and again you go back to the

33:55
Genesis thing where it says a day I mean there’s lots of places in the Bible where it talks about a day being a

34:01
thousand years and so you know that’s right so then you can go oh well if that’s the case then maybe this did

34:07
happen millions of years before this even in the Genesis account it because I’ve heard this Theory a lot too uh

34:14
where it’s like no actually it does represent that timeline you’re talking about even in the

34:19
creation process um but but e whatever thing is true

34:26
there time is not a a static thing that cannot be bent

34:33
we’ve even proven that right the theory of relative by we I mean Ein I didn’t I

34:38
didn’t come this we have not done that on this podcast no you don’t go back

34:44
don’t search for the previous podcast where we but as humans yes yes maybe one day

34:51
but not yet yeah as humans we have proven that uh time is relative and

34:58
which is basically saying that it’s malleable malleable or whatever so in the hands of a Creator who can create

35:04
something as vast as the universe than making time fast you think about like a

35:10
um I think of like a DJ with his uh oh yeah right the record right it’s like

35:16
they take a normal song they speed it up for a minute then they slow it down right and it’s this whole idea of

35:22
manipulating time for the sake of creativity

35:28
right yeah why can’t that be part of this story where yeah we have some some

35:34
time that looks like billions of years and we have some time that looks like the dinosaur and human Footprints are on

35:39
the same you know plane or whatever and time does answer it because time wasn’t

35:45
the static constant thing that we associated with based on the small amount of time that we’ve experienced as

35:52
you know a human race right where we understand it to have laws and certain distinct

35:58
but even that again has been stretched and bent and as relativity and these

36:04
things have come up and we go wait a second I don’t I don’t I don’t think time is what we think it is you know I

36:11
think it mean it’s it’s a little more like this it’s a little more like that it’s like I think you know yeah and

36:17
again that for me from a faith perspective grants so much Liberty to

36:25
understanding a lot of the time based you know conversations in the Bible or you know okay and U from Genesis and

36:33
kind of the timetables there all the way to Revelations and the time timetables there uh and and you know even the

36:41
theological discussion of where do you go when you die do you go to a holding Place Called Paradise or do you go

36:46
directly to go he heaven or do you go directly you know to the Judgment seat of Christ and just wait around for a

36:52
couple thousand years till everyone shows up who’s late you know whatever right or is is there again something

37:00
time is a construct that he created for our particular universe and when we pass on we’re no longer bound by that

37:07
construct and therefore we are in the same place as everyone else at the Judgment seat of Christ and that’s

37:14
happening when you die or like you know what I’m saying all of these things are

37:19
completely viable when it comes to a God who doesn’t care about what you think

37:24
about time valid point and I and I and I think that when we

37:33
take on my view is right then that becomes a difficult

37:40
thing to hear and I and I because I mean I’ll be honest you know part of me recognizes

37:46
that you know I don’t think there’s anything that

37:52
science has discovered that we can’t necessarily

37:57
find in other words that uh where when Solomon talks about nothing new Under the Sun you know I think I think at

38:04
times we have this part I would dare say you know thinking about it when you part

38:11
of your education how many of us have seen that evolution of man you know

38:16
sketch where you start off with a small monkey and you kind of Neanderthal man and you kind of grow up and you know and

38:22
it’s like you know we’ve all been I shouldn’t say all many of us

38:28
have been exposed to that and I think we bring that concept with us to a point of

38:34
saying okay everybody that was before me was just

38:40
dumb you follow me they they were the cave that’s a caveman way of thinking

38:45
and I think we still do that some in know you know anybody that’s different from me thinks like the remember the

38:52
Geico was it the Geico commercial that had the caveman yeah yeah yeah so easy to caveman can do it exactly yeah I

38:59
think there’s that process you know that we take we are not sponsored by Geo

39:05
yet we’re open to sponsorship but you know not yet but at that point yeah I

39:11
think we can take on that perspective that says well if you just think

39:16
differently than me you haven’t gotten to the point that I have yet and I and I

39:21
think of when I think of Solomon I think of Solomon being every bit is educ ated

39:28
as intelligent as we are today and I from my perspective I think in some

39:33
cases we’ve lost intelligence you know from a practical you know even even when

39:42
I think of you know someone like Jefferson who you know kept all of his documentation you know for seasons and

39:49
weather and you know and patterns that were able to be discovered to where you

39:54
know I I just I just think sometimes we think too highly of

39:59
ourselves compared to our forefathers and having stuff figured out and I think

40:05
the same can be true of the Bible you know and and being able to say yeah how

40:10
did Daniel you know figure these things out how did he you know and the numbers

40:17
whether you believe that time can be manipulated or not it’s like what he

40:22
said proves out in history that it was this segment of time you know that you

40:28
know the they were in Exile you know and it it just that that’s what comes to

40:34
mind when you think of time and I think you know there is a there is a order and a structure in it that is beneficial

40:43
when we look back and say okay yeah there is a plan there is a purpose and

40:50
what that person predicted was also what actually happened in history all the if

40:57
you will all the Prophecies of Jesus were fulfilled in his life even though

41:02
they happened so much longer ago and I guess that’s what I bring into this discussion is the ability to say God

41:10
knows yeah whether I do or not and yet we have we have science has yet to

41:18
disprove scripture where you know but if science disagrees with scripture I’m

41:23
going to be a little subject about that science because I’m concerned that it just hasn’t caught up yet you know and I

41:30
realize that’s a polarizing perspective on my part but yet I realize other

41:36
people probably extend that in the other direction as well and that’s what makes this discussion or if something right

41:43
essentially to flesh out what you just said if something Bears out through science to prove more of an intelligent

41:50
design for instance which all of science does because it just gets more complex the deeper you go yes then like you said

41:57
it’s just our science hasn’t caught up yet we we don’t know what we don’t know yeah it’s this inverse of what you just

42:03
said exactly yeah yeah I I really like what you’re saying about humanity and

42:09
our intelligence because what we have today is not a greater intelligence but

42:16
the thousands of years of what we’ve built to stand on you get what I’m

42:21
saying so push it out a little more for me thousand years to stand on right so essentially all the learning and all the

42:27
documentation and all the things that we have gained in previous you know uh um

42:34
throughout history uh what’s the word Generations previous generations as we

42:39
got better at documenting these things as we got better about building things that couldn’t be wouldn’t fall apart the

42:47
Next Generation gotcha right the better we were able to retain what we gained up to that point and then move it forward

42:54
and so you see this kind of if you think of it um a l a line that’s kind of slowly

43:00
inching upwards and then right near the end it goes faster and faster and higher and higher right that’s kind of our

43:06
technology curve right in society that and now we have the internet now we have computers now we have these things that

43:12
will retain everything that we’ve ever accomplished from this point back and so

43:17
we can build on that and we continue to do that that’s how we have computers and that’s how computers are now cars and

43:23
that’s how you know what I mean it’s like all these things and so we think of oursel as this much more intelligent

43:30
because of these things when really we’re the same intelligent with better tools I hear you you know better I I

43:37
understand technological tools or mental tools are the same like you said maybe

43:43
even degraded because of our technological tools precisely where we rely on those things and like you said

43:50
you see so much in history of how intelligent they were to be able to remember all this stuff memor you know

43:56
even think about I think about like the colonial days and the primer the primer books they would use oh yeah yeah yeah

44:03
little readers and so forth yeah and you just like look at excerpts of that and it’s just insanely hard yeah and yet

44:10
little school children were learning these things and memorizing these things and it’s just a matter of course for

44:16
them and I don’t think they had more brain capacity than we do I think they were

44:22
forced to use it in a different way than we are and now we have the shoulder shoulders of giants to stand on in terms

44:29
of computers and Google and I don’t I don’t have to know anything at any given

44:34
point because I can Google it and get you the answer yeah which is an incredible amazing thing that we’ve

44:40
accomplished and yet where does that leave my brain well it leaves it more dependent on this kind of global brain

44:46
right yes which in some ways is great some ways it is great because we’re going to continue to expand and grow

44:53
technologically which I can’t wait till we talk about artificial intelligence cuz that’s a part of this discussion and

45:01
uh it’s on our list of topics and I think it’s kind of a fascinating topic but the point is we’re continually

45:08
exponentially growing our technological side of things but we’re still stupid

45:13
understood we still hate each other we still kill each other we still do such

45:18
caveman things human things yeah yes yeah yes yeah so I I think that is an

45:26
interesting discussion and like you said I love reading the Bible and thinking

45:33
about the fact that some of the oldest words in there were written by someone

45:38
10,000 years ago maybe is that right or yeah give or take who knows you know 8,000 7 whatever that number yeah

45:46
whatever that young Earth creation Dynamic is and you hear what they’re writing and it’s like this person was

45:52
more intelligent than me yeah you know yeah and of course we believe in it and gods were being inspired by the word by

45:59
God sure but they were documenting events that were occurring and it was our civilization the same pettiness the

46:06
same jealousy and yet the same courageousness that we can sometimes exhibit today like it’s the same story

46:13
there’s it’s it’s not a picture of a less evolved Society except for the

46:18
technical part yeah no I hear where yeah and it’s it’s

46:24
interesting I think when I think about it and I like say this probably isn’t heading in the same direction as we T

46:30
started about but I when I think of evolution you know I think we can tend

46:36
to think that this technology Curve will continue and will continue and you know

46:42
and uh uh artificial intelligence and yet there’s a part of me that when I look

46:49
back historically speaking I think those not such not to the same degree

46:55
technologically but I think there have been societies Roman societ you know

47:01
that that said oh we’ve come so far and therefore we don’t

47:07
need God we don’t need these trappings if you will of creator of and and it’s

47:17
just that’s kind of that other side of that Spectrum it makes me wonder you

47:22
know will there come a day yeah when you know we won’t be able to be when

47:29
technology May Fail as well and are we gonna be and i’ like to say I’m not a a

47:35
doom and gloomer but it’s something that I think about you know when I and I when

47:41
I recognize as a society when we get so far down this road of thinking we got it

47:47
all figured out you know that yeah God doesn’t matter yeah you know and and so

47:55
like you say that’s kind of where I where I I balance even this you know

48:00
evolutionary you know intelligent design Creator type Dynamic it’s like okay if

48:07
we go so far in One Direction that we ignore the other half

48:13
it’s for me it’s kind of in some ways it’s similar to our tendency to prefer

48:20
rationale versus emotion you know what I mean so if we’re if we’re denying you

48:26
know all one full full part of it we’re ignoring one part of the Continuum it’s

48:32
like we’re missing out on the fullness of what we’ve been given the experience

48:38
that we have as a human to be able to think and feel and I think you know when

48:44
we take that so far that we’re not able to see you know how light has traveled

48:50
so far you know or we’re able we just want to ignore any aspect of the design

48:57
I think it’s a similar thing we’re we’re missing out on the wholeness of that creation from my perspective or

49:05
you know I’m I’m definitely willing to hear somebody else’s perspective on yeah

49:11
that’s part of why I think we’ve been you know why how I see things evolving

49:17
and I think you know that’s I don’t mean to make that as convoluted as it probably will sound but well bring it

49:23
together for us Justin 54 seconds uh yeah so summarize what I think you

49:30
just said but what I feel pretty strongly about is what’s so cool about it is we have a Creator but not just a

49:36
Creator yeah we have a personal relationship with that savior that’s how we believe right Mark and so I have a

49:44
relationship with this Creator to where I can go huh guess what I learned today this sounds cool what do you like show

49:51
you know give me Insight like let me understand this better and I can talk to them about it I can have faith can say

49:57
maybe this isn’t right maybe this is wrong but it sure is fascinating and it’s it’s fun to think about that you

50:02
could have done this yes and ultimately we have that opportunity to have an open mind and a conversation with our savior

50:09
our creator of the universe yes and it makes all that a little less scary if I

50:15
can go talk to Daddy who created it all and say hey what do you think yes you know and then leave it in his capable

50:20
hands and I don’t know it makes reading this stuff and experiencing the science you know like

50:27
the new breakthroughs and stuff just that much more fun and exciting to be able to say it doesn’t scare me it

50:33
doesn’t rattle who I am and my God yeah and I hope that would be true for each of our listeners yeah I was wrong we had

50:40
more than yeah but it’s okay I think we have a full hour but like I I think you wrapped it up well we’re going to go for

50:47
another hour folks you heard Mark so not another hour but as opposed to 50

50:52
minutes where we thought 50 seconds no 50 minutes yeah yeah yeah you thought to say but that’s okay that is okay cuz

50:59
that’s how we see [Music]

51:07
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