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[Music] foreign [Music]

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Justin morning Mark so you're back with another surprise yeah I like the

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surprise episodes I know I know we kind of uh you know reciprocate on that on

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that blessing if you will yeah because sometimes we uh yeah in the process of having topics you know

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we have the list to go from but I think sometimes it's it's nice just to be able to uh

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have the conversation it's not like this is always scripted I think so often our

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conversations with people are much like this it's like we come on to a topic through discussion and there's a part of

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us that's either excited or you know it's like where is this going

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you know and I think and I think that's what I appreciate about our relationship

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is the point where yeah we can we can have we can have reciprocal surprises also I would I'll

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say like it's similar to real conversations in that hey it's not scripts but also b sometimes we put our

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foot in her mouth [Music]

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welcome to how I see it with me Mark Pratt and Justin Sternberg this is a

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podcast that works to counter cultural polarization through thoughtful

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conversations [Music] when we pull it out we say well that's

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how I see it so yeah I'm just kidding but uh no you're not well sometimes it

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is it is a matter of actually that is how I see it sometimes it's like well I don't think I see it that way even it's

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a foot and mouth truly a foot and mouth situation but I think that is part of

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having healthy diet you know conversations is sometimes you put your foot and mouth but um kind of brings out

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a little bit of truth about what you feel about it so you know in in a safe

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conversation a little foot and mouth you know isn't isn't the end of the world yeah right no I'd agree yeah I'd agree I

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think it also it gives us that opportunity to recognize sometimes we have to apologize yeah sometimes we have

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to retract yep some statements and you know sometimes and if we're going to talk about polarizing subjects with with

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anybody which is again kind of the goal of the bigger goal of this podcast is to

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encourage these conversations so that we can get to know people who aren't like us so that we can build yeah you know

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kind of connections where there aren't any that kind of thing that we had that's a big part of it you

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should you know learning how to also apologize and say you know I don't I don't I don't mean to say it that way I don't

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mean to you know step on toes I don't know although I don't actually like that term one day yeah I don't mean to step

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on any toes it's like yes you do I I and that's and that's where I'm at

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you know it's like sometimes we do feel strongly about something yeah and we may very well step on toes but

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how do we do that in a gracious manner yeah and I so yeah that's that's that's

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the beauty of uh the discussion yeah so that being said if you had to

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think about three topics let's say three topics you know kind of what topics can't we talk about

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you know you think about it from your childhood or from you know your relationship even with Megan what three

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topics would be difficult to talk about difficult yeah difficult or taboo or

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it could be both yeah I think a sex conversation would be very

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difficult okay that's fair enough I'm very awkward with you mark well just so you know that's not where

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we're headed this morning so restful church now you can come up with two and three

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uh what else we got um I don't know I mean We've joked about nothing's off limits a lot of times so

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what about growing up hmm we just did our politics one

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that was just released so now people have a little indication of how how much lag time there is between

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but yeah yeah so but politics could be one of those things yeah we were told as kids you know can't talk about politics

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at the yeah at the dinner table yeah or whatever Thanksgiving table yep yeah but

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we just talked about I mean that's kind of my point like right uh so you're just saying in general yeah in general yeah

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that's good politics religion but okay we managed to hit that one quite a bit yeah

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and I already know the answer so I'm trying to guess ones that aren't that I

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understand but it is a surprise topic well it's not complete but completely you told me right before we hit record

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I asked it's my fault yeah but I'm still gonna act surprised I don't know Mark uh

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uh money money money money money yes money

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and I I would it's it's the it for me it's this

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I'm finding myself in this conflict between contentment and money

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so it's not just money but if I were to ask you and here's here's kind of the this is our chance we

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get to ask our listeners for money I got a list of podcast things I need to buy I

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see this is this this is where it's gonna be a wrestling you know okay but well well Mark wrestles just send your

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checks to us that being said okay this is this is

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where I was like 12 listeners this is where I'm putting God yeah that's true can I venmo

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um that being said would you say that you love money

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hmm that's where the surprise comes into play

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yeah I think about that um you know because obviously you and I both know the verse yeah the

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love of money is the root of all evil um so I guess I've always been like you

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shouldn't yeah but but I'm thinking about do I exactly and I think

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I think my cop-out answers I love what money can bring okay you know what I

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mean yeah so that gets really close to the level yeah yeah but I'm just thinking about if if a stack of cash was

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sitting there in front of us would I be like you know little heartbeat pitter

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patter uh-huh uh maybe maybe let's put it depends on how big that stack is

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you let's put it this way if that stack of cash was there okay

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by no means you would you say that's dangerous or that's

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I don't want that right correct certainly not if the if okay even even

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on a larger scale Powerball was just up to oh yeah two I didn't win mark he did

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win I didn't enter but I didn't ultimately that's part of the slogan isn't it you have to enter to win or

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something like that probably is yeah but next time gonna enter even at that scale

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would you want it um

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you know everyone says yes because I would do good things with it yeah you

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know I like to think that I like to think that

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uh okay so this this is this is a good this

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is a good question and it definitely ties into a lot of conversations about money that I've had in my life and one

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of those things is that money is an amplifier right and so

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essentially what you do without money um it will amplify that so your

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character your Tendencies towards generosity your Tendencies towards my

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sirliness your tendency towards um being disgruntled with service like just

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whatever it is like money is not going to solve those things and it will only amplify those things and you know so

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I like to think that I've been practicing for this you know like let's let's see let's see how I do in the

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Olympics because I feel like I've been working at it now certainly not Olympic Training but you know if I just get dumped in the Olympics I'll try you know

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sure but uh Ultimate Frisbee championships is that in the Olympics probably not

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probably should be uh I'd be like yeah let me try I'll probably be terrible but maybe better than something if they were

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dumped in the same situation right yeah um so I'd like to try it yeah yeah

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as far as having you would say yes to the two billion dollar party gotcha yeah

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it'd be fun I I also

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you know it's it's it's more than there's definitely

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more to that scenario than you're likely to think about when asked

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that question or your name gets announced sure like but for instance

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relationships yeah how many relationships would be able to be last through that yeah you know what I mean

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family and friends yeah yeah yeah or it's like yeah

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and and if I may realistically the only thing that changed is the fact that one

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of the individuals in that relationship acquired more money yes you know what though

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recently I read saw that a recent winner

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of a sweepstakes I don't know if it's this one or it's a different one he uh no it was in uh China or something okay

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he wore a mask so when he went to his acceptance thing like no one knew who he was he was

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Anonymous okay and I'm like that's genius if I win the sweepstakes that's what I'm doing I hear you I don't know

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if you get that option it's like if you want this 2 billion then you have to tell us your name dang it you know I

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don't know you know in terms of public publicity if they require you to not be anonymous

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um but if you let there's an option I thought that was brilliant no I hear where you're coming you know what I'm saying because then now there is nothing

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that's changed between us that you know of right right and family knows of her whatever yeah

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um so now I just have to deal with my side which something did change on my side and that can

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of course impact me but at least it's half so far but it's interesting that

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you bring up that point because I worked with a fella he'd say you know when you

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know people were in the building houses you know his phrase would be you can't hide money

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yeah yeah so even if you wore the mask yeah

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there would be a change likely a change in your behavior you might upgrade your

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car I'm not saying that so yes we would do that first because we have two 2004

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vehicles and they are embarrassing to drive but but they are cheap yeah paid for

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yeah and they still work exactly but yes I would definitely upgrade my cars right

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away yeah except I would keep the Mazda and make Mia drive it because you know

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kids should drive older vehicles yeah that's a smart move yeah yeah but so

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you'd be like Daddy you need to buy me a Mustang uh nope would you

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yeah whatever Mustang no would you say no yeah I would say no yeah so you would

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so the back to the original point of the collection you would take the the two billion dollars well yeah did you bring

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it with you or I did not I'm getting very excited here see see

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now now we're going to come back to the original question would you say you love money yes I don't know sure I don't

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because I'm not trying to pin you down I'm wrestling with that myself I I so here's what I here's what I truly think

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I think that I do a good job with money for a lot of

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reasons I I think that and I I don't know that I need to go go into why right

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now but I think generosity is part of it yeah I think um

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um integrity and business situations is part of it or there's been times where

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I guess it's kind of like frisbee right okay I mean frisbee there's no referee

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so a foul happens when somebody just calls a foul so either the receiver of

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the foul or The Giver of the foul um and

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ultimately it comes down to a judgment call right sure and you can be generous

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towards that call or you can be cantankerous like if you're on the receiving end of the Fall call like you

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know that was a foul no it wasn't yeah well you slapped out of my hand you know you slap my hand in the mid no I got all

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frisbee or whatever you can be that way you can go all right all right back off let's go guys you know I can get back on

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the field and play sure because you got called for a foul and I think business you know this is quite the analogy but

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business can be like that where there's arguments over you know haggling over

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contracts and stuff like that and you can be like we're we're gonna we're

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gonna litigate about this or you can say you know what you're haggling over this and it's not worth it sure it's not

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worth a reputation swap it's not worth you know whatever and so that's part of it too is like I've definitely

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encountered situations like that in the past in various ways where it's just like you know what

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to gain the money through this would is not worth the trade of these other things whatever that is sure you know

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what I mean so I think that's also a good indication that I I could do okay but again I have no idea I don't yeah

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you know I I don't want to pretend I would do great but I like to think I would and I think everyone thinks that and I would

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say just based on our relationship I agree that you are very generous so did you bring it

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I do not have it and like you say don't don't even go out to that point of uh

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making it sound like I have that kind of funding because I don't want the issues that go along with it because it's

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interesting when we think about you know the research that is done on Powerball

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and Lottery and things it's like people that end up with that chunk of money

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really don't seem to end up any better off that's that's the yeah and I and I

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think even even the illusion of the precious if you will yeah you know I

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think that's kind of what we wrestle with in that Dynamic of

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well I'll be able to do it better than them you follow me yeah and I and I

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think you know well you alluded to scripture even you know or you mentioned you brought up scripture as far as you

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know the love of money is the root of all evil so you know money itself isn't an evil thing but it's that love of it

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and I think you know that's where it can be a subtle thing and you know how do we wrestle with our

16:00
personal love if you will in a way that establishes contentment and it was it

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was interesting because um part of where I was coming from there's a

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sociologists have found that there is a Optimum

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income level for good parenting because as as we think about parenting

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you know kids cost money yeah and the reality of it is you know if you don't

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have enough money okay parenting is difficult but there was this upside down

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you basically that basically said at 75 000 you know it's sufficient and yeah

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after 75 pre-inflation or posted probably pre right you're probably

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reciting something yeah free yes definitely but in that process 75 000

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okay after 75 000 parenting became more difficult yeah yeah and I was and I was

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thinking you know there's all kinds of phrases shirt sleeves to shirt sleeves and three generations or you know good

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men make strong men make good times you know

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is that next year I don't know either of those phrases I'll explain it okay sounds interesting yeah sure sleeves the

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shirt sleeves in three generations basically is this process where an individual will work hard

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you know and they may make it but likely in that process of passing it on to

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their children their chill while they're great three generations so their

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grandchildren may be back to shirt sleeves again where they have to work for it because the generations ahead

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didn't necessarily pass it on well right they did in other words the first generation that worked hard the second

18:00
generation didn't get that work ethic and it didn't pass it on yeah yeah that

18:08
makes sense that and that's what I don't get the shirt sleeves part of that well roll up your shirt sleeves you have to

18:14
work you know yeah it's you know that kind of thing that they they invested in

18:19
other words and we think about it in the in the aspects of immigrants who came to America they worked hard and yet you

18:26
know and they and they were then they scrimped then they saved and they you know had this ethic that allowed them to

18:33
if we call if we may say you know accomplish the American dream yeah but then that dream wasn't necessarily

18:42
life long you know or you know generation it was that same Dynamic

18:47
wasn't passed on it's kind of like that saying that says I gotta I gotta think about it here for a moment

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um Hard Times make strong men strong men make good times

19:01
yeah good times make weak men weak men makes make hard times yeah you follow me

19:08
it's that and I've never heard that either never oh I like that yeah it's just and it's

19:14
one of those things that I and the reason I'm thinking of it is it's one of those things that I'm thinking about now

19:21
you know as far as how how I've taught our children or we I should say but you

19:28
and me and Chris have you know to the degree that we grew

19:36
up what money meant to us or you know because we all we if we were

19:41
to have a hundred dollar bill on the table we'd all look at that differently

19:47
you follow me it would have a different that hundred dollar bill would have a different meaning to us

19:52
and that comes down to our money languages to a certain degree we all have different money languages but at

19:58
the same time we would look at that differently and I'm thinking about okay what have in my

20:07
love of money I'll go there with you because I think it is difficult because for me I wrestle with having a Love of

20:16
Money okay because I recognize that there is a difference in my demeanor

20:22
there is a difference in my mood when I get cut a check at the end of the week

20:29
and it goes into my account I'd admit for me personally there is a shift you

20:36
follow me and that that I don't necessarily like that but I'm also willing to recognize it is

20:45
a thing and it's like okay how am I being counter to or how is that thing

20:51
affecting my children it's interesting okay because for so

20:59
for years you know the love of money is root of all evil we kind of got into

21:04
this idea that money is evil and now for years since those years we've been

21:10
saying now remember it's not money that's evil it's the love of money and so we kind of balance that theology I

21:17
feel like generationally it's kind of gone that way for me uh but I've never thought about this but even with what

21:23
you're saying it doesn't even say the love of money is evil no right no it's all of money is the roof

21:31
right so you know the fact that you're you know it's the flash right but I

21:37
guess maybe partly um that loves money or whatever

21:42
so that's not necessarily evil it's really comes down to how you deal with that is so it's like another uh way to

21:49
put it is Temptation is also not evil to be tempted sure because temptation is

21:55
external you know and so when you're tempted by money by sex by drugs

22:01
whatever it is right right that part's not the evil part it's it's how we respond to it it's you know right yeah

22:08
that kind of thing so I do think just thinking about like do you love money

22:13
I think it's probably natural to say that most people who have flesh and needs and are not already you know

22:20
drowning in money love it because of what it can bring to their life

22:25
the challenge there of course is to balance it with recognizing no actually it's not this pile of green on the desk

22:32
that's doing that for me it is the provision of my father above who brought

22:37
this pile of green to my desk you know what I mean and being able to keep that in balance and being able to keep that

22:42
in perspective that's the hard part and important part and that's I think that's the part where

22:48
um yeah like that's the part that requires practice for now when you have don't

22:55
have two billion dollars you know yeah and I think that's the part I think it's

23:00
important to recognize that as a root

23:05
something that can grow yeah you know what I'm saying to where I'm mindful of

23:11
okay this is money but I'm not gonna let it gain you know grow rootedness in such

23:19
a way that I become or maybe there are roots and sometimes

23:24
you can pull them up sometimes you can yeah and but I think and I think that's where the family Dynamics come into play

23:31
because some of those roots get passed on through the family tree yeah and some

23:36
of those roots might need to be yeah because they're counter two and uh The

23:42
Virtue you know um reference to the one prior to that godliness with contentment you know this

23:50
Prospect of contentment and I and that's that's the part where I think you know that helps us trim those

23:57
roots or cut off those roots that might take us in an evil Direction because I'm

24:03
hearing what you're saying you know money is a moral yeah but yet we can

24:08
wreck and I think there is most I would say most people in our

24:16
generation or probably even most of our listeners we're not going to say anything new yeah about money

24:22
but I would recognize or I do challenge um JP you know the guy listening he

24:28
would included yeah yeah just like saying that name that's fine occluda yes that's a fun included that JP yes Harris

24:36
Street Church he was uh he was honestly talking about it in the sense of it's not that we

24:42
wouldn't it's not that we can hear anything new it's the fact that we

24:48
believe what it says is true yeah you follow me yeah and presenting the same

24:55
truth in different contexts can open new insights sure so yeah

25:02
um one thing that I in terms of money that I feel like is a conversation I

25:07
haven't heard much of Bring It On that I think

25:12
would be a good you know question uh maybe something new Maybe not maybe you've had you know in your context as a

25:18
listener you you've discussed this a lot but like why don't we talk more to our

25:25
kids about the money we spend and how you know budget you know like the exact

25:30
figures like we're very protective and by we I know we are and I assume you are

25:36
and I think that's kind of an a normal parenting uh route to take is basically

25:42
uh how much did that cost none of your business you know what I mean that kind of idea how much do you make yeah none

25:49
of your business right yeah and of course so some of it's the obvious why

25:54
you know it's like how much you make it's like I don't want you to go to school and have a pissing contest with

25:59
your friends about yeah whose dad makes more money like that's that's the first obvious

26:05
thing and I think of course children don't have the maturity so I I feel like I'm gonna give an

26:10
answer my question to some degree but well I think there's some value in maybe

26:16
well here's here's here's the problem that I see yeah because we don't talk about it adequately and we don't talk

26:22
about what numbers mean something right like and if you make this much it means you can do this and if you you know if

26:29
something costs this much it means you probably have to make a trade-off and not do this other thing because we don't talk about those figures and stuff or

26:35
even the concepts much because it's all none of your business they don't have those tools sure and I would I would not

26:42
that we're going back to the sex topic but I would say it's very similar yes I

26:47
agree yeah having yeah but that one's way more Awkward that was easy to explain it's like no one wants to talk

26:53
to their kids about sex like no well actually money is kind of that way yes all right because and I would I would

27:00
dare say you know sex and money are similar in the context that they can

27:06
provide things that God desires to provide you follow me so if I'm looking

27:14
to money for happiness versus contentment you know sex for happiness that that kind of thing I'm gonna be

27:20
disappointed yeah so I believe like you're saying that we have to have these

27:25
age appropriate conversations all along about money

27:31
Finance you know finances sex that kind of thing in an age-appropriate manner

27:37
that help our children understand God's design for it it's not that this is

27:44
man's thing granted finances yes you know we can argue the point or whatever but you know

27:51
the reality of it is God talks about money a lot yeah in scripture and you know and Jesus refers to it a lot you

27:57
know the the whole camel Dynamic you know it's difficult for a person to you know enter enter the Gates of Heaven you

28:05
know until they kind of unload this pack you know that kind of scripture and so there's a lot of it and I think you know

28:12
even talents and you know how he used that but I think it is important to be

28:17
able to talk with our kids and say yeah this is what we do this is what your mom

28:24
and I do you know and I think it's even important to be able to say later on you

28:29
know okay yeah this is about how much we make and this is you know where we a lot

28:34
you know certain percentages and we don't go over that percentage towards

28:39
buying a house or you know a car you know we try to see you know and I think those things can be you know and being

28:47
able to really talk about um Credit in a healthy way because it's

28:53
not that you know I I personally have an issue with credit cards that kind of but I think you know for us it's about being

29:00
able to pay it off every month and still you know build a sort of credit and not that that necessarily does it we found

29:07
out that doesn't necessarily oh really yeah in certain circumstances you know if you're paying it off it's not like

29:13
you're building a credit score it helps but you know if they also want

29:20
to see they want to see your ability to pay for something pay off something over

29:26
long term too so yeah that's that was an interesting Dynamic that I all right listener

29:31
yeah Dave Ramsey's like you shouldn't care about credit yeah and and here's

29:37
the thing I think you know I'm a full I'm I believe strongly in what Dave

29:44
Ramsey's has done his ministry and how he educates people on finances and yet

29:51
I've also seen how his teaching can lead couples in such a way to be so focused

29:59
on finances that they lose their ability to build relationship and have fun I'm

30:04
not saying it's Dave Ramsey's fault don't get me wrong yeah yeah but like anything I think we can take it too far

30:10
in One Direction and it's about being debt free and that's all we do so we don't go on vacation anymore more or you

30:18
know have weekends away you don't have people over because you have to feed them and yeah at the at the cost so we

30:25
lose relationship at the cost of yeah I've seen that for sure yeah yeah so I

30:30
mean and I think that's where I'm coming from is this ability to say okay how can I recognize what influences are in my

30:38
life regarding money and still be generous still build contentment you

30:44
know and still have a create if you will a legacy that says okay yeah what I

30:51
accumulate okay my children will know well well what to do with that what is

30:57
the there's a proverb that talks about um the wise being able to pass have in

31:03
to their children's children yeah yeah but yeah I'm not asking you to quote it

31:08
for me I don't think I was specific to money though but yeah right maybe I don't know I'm yeah I'm I guess

31:16
it wouldn't have to be money but an inheritance I might tend to think of that could be land could be

31:24
yeah you'll have to look at resources yeah we can we may have to come back to that too yeah and just yeah I think you

31:32
would you're saying the same thing but like if you want to listen to some good advice you know definitely check out

31:40
Dave Ramsey's podcast sure where he talks about this every day all day and yeah you're gonna get some really good

31:46
advice and his system whatever his whatever it's not perfect there's no perfect system for every single person

31:53
and so there are going to be some personalities that that maybe it brings out the worst in them or whatever but

31:59
generally if you were to ask him about this scenario he would say well no of course I don't mean abandoned Community

32:05
sure but I also mean get out of debt so if that means for one year you're a

32:11
little bit light on the community side because you recognize your tendency to spend too much in those environments or

32:18
whatever right then that's that that might be the trade-off you have to make that's that's a personal call that you

32:23
have to make you know sure I think he would be very balanced in that perspective no that'd be my guess but

32:31
yeah the thing about the kids uh it's interesting because I mean I I think I I

32:37
appreciate you bringing out the phrase age appropriate because I do think that's kind of a key there

32:43
um you know what that age is I'm not sure I do think you know Mia is my older she's she's 15.

32:50
um and so you know she's had some jobs and different things like that so I think you know there's probably

32:55
somewhere around this time where it's good to start talking about this uh don't get me wrong we've talked to her about money yeah saving and all that

33:02
kind of what's she saving for um I'm not sure actually okay yeah what

33:08
are you saving for a vehicle unless I win that Lottery yeah yeah no

33:16
yeah also we tend to save our vehicle but really we're just saving for our kids dentist visits gotcha yeah yeah

33:27
we save so that we can have uh funds for those things that come up yeah and then

33:32
it kind of sets back our our goal for the thing we're saving for but at the same time we have another same time here

33:39
living in peace because yeah you have the funds to take care of what you need to take care of it

33:44
yeah and it's it's interesting to think about it from that aspect too because um

33:50
I just recognize I guess the older I get the more I recognize that that piece is

33:57
available no matter how much money we bring in you know to a certain

34:04
degree I realize you know being completely broke is not fun don't get me

34:09
wrong there and yeah it's because it's interesting about where I'm coming from is you know

34:15
the way I do my counseling you know I'm on a sliding scale yeah so I don't have

34:22
a flat fee in other words that basically makes it cost prohibitive for

34:28
people with a lesser income to see me and it's interesting because that that

34:34
provides quite a variety in Brunswick County of clients you know so I I

34:40
definitely have people who you know pay me the the least amount and yeah I have

34:46
people that break my scale right and it's just you know it's like well we're we're well above your scale it's like

34:53
well you know I'm happy for you and yet I

34:58
recognized it you know on that on that lower end you know I talk with people

35:04
and they're just come in and they're you know contended

35:09
and they're able to say you know what this this came to me I forgot I had you

35:14
know this check or this check came you know and it's just interesting for me to be able to see yeah you know God's

35:22
faithfulness to people across the board yeah and that's how I see it that it is

35:28
about you know his faithfulness regardless of the level

35:33
of income that I have in so many ways yeah I feel like I've seen

35:40
discontent in all varieties right oh sure and same the same contented yeah

35:46
there are people who do wealth amazingly well and I think you know that is that

35:52
is part of their blessing if you will because God says yeah you're faithful

35:58
with the little things like you were saying you know I'm get I'm gonna be willing to give you more because I know

36:04
what you're gonna do with it yeah yeah yeah and I think that's a big part of

36:12
a big part of this money talk especially in terms of you know God and is

36:18
essentially praying those prayers that say don't give me more than I can handle and that goes for all Temptations sure

36:24
you know what I mean and just just a desire for him to grant us what we can

36:31
accept but no more yeah and I've definitely prayed that prayer uh several

36:36
times in my life in journal at different things about don't give me more and specifically

36:43
money then I can do right you know and

36:49
um that's why I'm still poor you know I'm not poor I'm just kidding uh but but

36:54
that's a big part of it is I think um I'm okay with I'm okay with this being

37:01
the most I make or less right if if that's what it's gonna take to be the healthiest

37:08
version of myself and by healthy I mean spiritually healthy sure um yeah and I think like you said you you

37:16
can go you hear so many stories of missionaries right going to these poor tribes in Africa well they don't know

37:22
they're poor they don't you know they're content they're happy they their life is a fulfilled existence and they're not uh

37:29
sitting there wondering when the next you know checks coming in they're not you know I don't know it's just a different world yeah

37:35
um and there are some some who are truly poor poor so the poor you know in these

37:41
different missionary communities that just aren't worried about it yeah you

37:46
know and which is kind of what you're saying um even with the Brunswick County you know dichotomy

37:51
um and I think there's there's so much value and be able to be content despite

37:57
what the The Ledger says um but it sure isn't easy it requires a

38:03
lot of intentional work you know mentally to do

38:08
that and if you don't think about it ever there's a good chance like you know

38:14
that yeah I don't know I think if you don't

38:19
think about it ever then there's a tendency or flesh will just do what it's going to do and you'll end up loving money too much and it'll become a root

38:26
of all you know root of evil and you'll have some Roots growing up or whatever I do think you have to Manicure it I do

38:31
think you have to pluck the weeds when they're coming up recognize that those roots are are there and they need to be

38:37
groomed sure fair enough yeah no and I but I I think there is something to be I

38:43
was when you were talking about it from you know the past that kind of thing I was thinking about that or the the

38:50
missionary Dynamic I was thinking about it from that child likeness and and I

38:55
think about it in that context of you know early on growing up you know I recognize

39:02
for me we weren't Wealthy by any means and yet

39:08
I didn't know any different you know what I mean because we were all kind of the same in our neighborhood

39:15
that kind of you know Working Class Type Dynamic and I I was thinking about it in

39:21
that context and I you know I was thinking about it even from the missionary it's that it's that

39:27
comparison that I eventually find you know yeah that seems to make it

39:36
difficult and I think even as adults you know or especially as adults that's

39:43
when we start wrestling with it because we see someone who has something you

39:50
know and and I and I'm thinking about it in that context it can very much be that

39:55
comparison and we kind of go back to that atom perspective that says did God

40:03
really say that you can't you know the root of all money the root

40:09
of all evil is money come on now how that's not that's not that can't be true

40:15
you know is that Apple not good for me oh come on now it looks so appealing um

40:21
and I think that becomes that comparison that it's almost like oh well God are you holding out on me in somewhere right

40:29
and to be able to recognize and come back and say you know what you're not holding out at me at all yeah

40:37
yeah because I have and you know whether I do have or

40:42
don't have you know there's still a relationship that isn't

40:48
going to change there right right and yeah and it's not conditional

40:55
on the amount of money you have or don't have and yeah his provision is not conditional on the amount of money you

41:01
have or don't have and some like you said there are I I think a lot more stories of gratitude for God's

41:07
faithfulness when there is a lack of fun so when there isn't right because it's like like you you know earlier mentioned

41:13
like a check just showed up and here I am you know like you can afford to pay for counseling because for some reason

41:19
this came through and you know and like I think there's a recognition of those blessings I also think those blessings

41:24
come to people who have money it's just you don't process it the same way the same level of gratitude you know sure um

41:31
because the rain falls on the just in the unjust and I believe that even rich people get checks they didn't realize we're gonna come in but they're probably

41:38
not you know talking to their counselor about that's why I'm here because this came through you know it's a different

41:43
world harder to appreciate those little blessings and I think that also takes work to be like you know what that is

41:51
cool I didn't necessarily need that but it's still a cool little you know provision from God you know what I mean

41:57
right and I think where what you're referring to in some ways is dependence hmm you know and I'm not saying that

42:03
wealthy people don't have them dependence mindset or can't have but I

42:09
think it would be more difficult you know because on God specifically yes

42:14
yeah because I think and I think that's where it comes back to is depending on our

42:20
perception money can for on this Earth to replace God often times yeah oh yes

42:27
yeah you know and I think that's that's just again to quote the scripture that you said earlier which you didn't quite

42:34
say at all so but uh it's easier for a rich man to pass through and I have a needle and then uh or I see easier for a

42:42
camel to pass through the eye of a needle then for a rich man to make it to Heaven is essentially yes a summary of

42:49
that verse which is exactly your point it's you know with the the money becomes your God

42:55
and your faith is no longer in God but in money and you know faith is the

43:01
currency of you know Salvation right and so if you can never get to that place

43:07
yeah of faith in a provider because you're already provided for

43:13
then you know it's gonna be pretty hard yeah camel going through an eye of a needle

43:18
um because it because it's a god replacement like you should it provides so many of the things

43:24
because it can provide almost anything just like God can yes right it's on

43:30
earth right in in one could argue one could argue you could even buy your

43:35
salvation depending on your religious affiliation that's true but that's yeah that's a good point and I do think that

43:41
becomes a reality depending on again your religious affiliation where it's like well I know I don't live right but

43:49
I'm gonna I'm gonna take care of that yeah right throw something yeah exactly financially I'm gonna take care of that

43:55
yeah yeah and uh and I think that happens not just in certain religious affiliations I I think that happens in

44:02
almost every religious affiliation if if you're theologies that whack sure you know I

44:08
think whether it's taught ask you or you just heard it ask you sure I I think there's

44:14
Apple that do that yeah they try and buy their salvation and but yeah and of course you know there's

44:21
so many anecdotes and stories and you know that the versions of life that you

44:27
buy versus earn are not quite the same you know so if you buy love right you

44:33
buy sex you buy you know fulfillment or you know you buy something that makes

44:40
you feel like you have you're a big man right sure you know what I mean like all those things they

44:47
end up short yeah right if that's the grade um and so they yeah

44:54
yeah like you you buy a big truck to prove to everyone you're you're you're a big man

44:59
and yet you're still a turd you know it's like you're still a little man in a

45:05
big truck honking at people in front of you like I own the road it's like you're not a big man you're a little man for

45:11
doing that you know and you're just proving it you're displaying It On full display you know what I mean I hear

45:17
where you're coming from yes in that process and like that's a thing yeah the aggression well I was thinking about

45:24
that if if I may um you may what what I apologize if you

45:31
have a big truck I want a big truck I'm actually just jealous so what have you learned that

45:39
has helped you prune your roots yeah that's evil I guess with Megan on your

45:46
own so the first thing I'll say this is a

45:53
common answer with your questions like this is something that took decades to

45:59
learn so good luck if you're starting on this journey you got a ways to go maybe you're faster than me that's fine yeah

46:05
yeah but for me it's Decades of testing what the Bible says about money hmm

46:11
because the Bible even says test me in this see if I don't you know I'm gonna butcher it but basically

46:18
you're just talking about being generous towards God and tithing and sure and

46:23
that kind of idea and saying test me in this and see if I don't blow your socks off essentially Malachi 3 isn't it

46:28
that's right yeah yeah the Justin version I think yeah and blow your socks out

46:34
um but yeah the whole point is so tithing has always been part of my

46:39
nature because I grew up in church in in a church that specifically talked about that was very you know adamant about

46:45
about that um I think most churches are because the Bible teaches it although one could argue about the specific word

46:51
of tide and the specific percentage amount because Old Testament was 10 and that was called tithe and sometimes we

46:58
extrapolate that to be the giving that he's talking about in the New Testament but he doesn't really say that sure

47:03
right and this one what is the storehouse yeah that can yeah

47:09
so I've been tithing since I can since I made any money I've been trading and I was taught to and I enjoyed it I'm like

47:15
look at me I'm so smart and righteous and putting my money in the the you know

47:21
plate as it goes by so that's been easy and it's never been a struggle and I I hear people who struggle with it and I'm

47:27
like I can't relate but I also have empathy I can I can understand I was like if someone gave you you know 100

47:33
Bill and then said now can I need to trade that in and give you a 50 in you

47:39
know 220s and yeah that's not anyway it's like that doesn't quite have the

47:44
same feel as a nice Chris hundred dollar bill and you're like but that was my ten dollars you know I don't know when I say

47:50
110 it doesn't sound like that big a deal but no I got you maybe ten dollars in one now it's still but anyway ten

47:56
percent um you know is a big deal it is doing that for decades and seeing that

48:02
we're fine we've done it through the worst and the best times there was two years I didn't have a job

48:10
um at all I well I shouldn't say I didn't have a job I did odds and end painting jobs sure I didn't have I

48:15
wasn't employed by a specific employer I kind of did some freelance stuff but

48:20
nothing was steady it was kind of just scraps right and during that time we

48:26
still managed to tie then we still managed to slowly [ __ ] away at our debt

48:31
slowly I mean it was much more slowly um and I just look at those times and those are kind of like uh pillar points

48:38
in my life or Watermark moments where I can go if that then this is fine you know what I mean I can say if he got us

48:44
through that and we then there's never I never questioned the tithing aspect I

48:49
think one area that becomes more struggling is uh he talks about ties and

48:54
offerings kind of you know it talks about the idea of there's kind of your obligation then there's the above and

49:00
beyond and so you know trying to figure out what that means and how to deal with that like I think there's been times in

49:07
our life we've done good with that we've we've we've gone we've done things right and other times where it's like I don't

49:14
think I quite want to do that and it feels very much very difficult and um

49:19
again the times where we've done it and the times where we haven't we're blessed more when we do it than we when we don't

49:27
um and so much of living after the word of God isn't about

49:35
the immediate payoff right sure and so recognizing that right now it's Gonna

49:41
Hurt that's okay right I'm gonna be generous and you know give to this thing

49:47
or this whatever this person whatever the need is and we probably you know we could use that money for my truck but

49:55
but you know what this is more important in recognizing that the immediate payoff as well it's going to take longer to get

50:01
my truck and you know and that's that's because we're blessed like you know 10

50:06
years ago it would have been you know we might not be able to feed our children I don't know you know

50:11
what I'm saying like the the how it impacts you is different but the facts are sometimes the immediate payoff is

50:18
not blessings is not whatever but I can tell you that years of doing it produces

50:24
a blessed life because it's promised and he doesn't go against his promises and

50:29
you might look at one scenario one thing in your life where you say I did that and then this happened so it's not about

50:35
uh you know if this then that right um it's about reaping and sewing in the

50:40
grand scheme of your life and sometimes this the reaping what you reap is not a

50:45
financial benefit what you might Reap is the ability to be generous sure which is

50:51
its own reaping it's its own blessing is to be able to say you know what this is not my money it's his and I don't mind

50:56
giving it over here instead of here that's a blessing in and of itself right so if you get nothing else out of the

51:03
deal you still get a pretty good deal in that you're not tied to this thing and it's not you're a slave to it right

51:09
because you love it so much and it it provides everything in your life yeah that was a long answer I don't even know

51:17
if it was an answer I don't know what what'd you ask again I was asking how you trim your roots trim your roots but

51:24
tithing tithing is a good one we'll boil it down to that yes

51:29
I think another way for me has been those situations that I was kind of alluding

51:36
at where I feel like I deserve a certain thing but I set my feelings of deserving a

51:44
sign and say you know what it's not worth it that's one way that's helped me sure chop those roots out you know and

51:51
say you know what the this person owes me this person owes me I worked for those you know this hours

51:58
they owe me this many dollars and and going you know what I could hunt them down and I could keep

52:03
bugging them like it's not worth it to me to do that because

52:09
I know the situation and I I know that either either misers and Terr you know

52:15
whatever and like whatever or there's a genuine Financial struggle on the other side it's like you know what it's not

52:22
worth tearing them down to build me up sure and so

52:28
that's been helpful for me honestly there's been several scenarios like that throughout my life where and I I'm not I

52:36
don't want to say like um I think there's parts of my personality that drives that where I

52:43
care about approval I care whatever so I don't want to make it sound like uh it's some virtuous all virtuous but that the

52:51
result of it is you know what money's not all that and that's a good thing that's a good outcome in my life and it

52:58
does help trap some of those roots so that's another thing it's and there's there's always opportunities for

53:04
generosity to an enemy right like sure because that's kind of No Doubt I was thinking

53:10
about it even the context as you were you know I was hearing you say the eye part you know and I I'm for me

53:15
personally I'm thinking about um how much Chris's influence has helped

53:21
me trim my roots you know in that process of a spouse because I think

53:27
early on in relationship we bring these separate money ideas together you know

53:33
in marriage and you know we we know how you know difficult I can be you know

53:40
when it's not when it's opposed to we I want this I want that you know versus oh

53:46
what do we want to achieve and what do you know and I was thinking about it um I don't necessarily well I alluded to it

53:54
earlier there's studies that show there's like four different money languages you know

54:01
um amiable money is love um analytic uh money can kind of be

54:08
control because you know I I think about finances and I have my spreadsheet that kind of thing driver is another one and

54:16
it's about you know looking at what I've provided my family and there's a sense of accomplishment there you know and I'm

54:24
forgetting the other one off the top of my head but it was a it was a research but being

54:29
able to recognize that my view of money is better when I include Chris's you

54:38
know balance yeah it's a balance it's a wholeness of God's Viewpoint and I'm

54:44
able to see money more clearly you know when I accept influence from others

54:50
because I can get I can get caught up in the my me I versus the okay what is what

54:58
is what am I learning in the we moments that basically say okay yeah I'm not

55:05
I'm not I don't know at all where finances are concerned and I I think about how early on Chris and I

55:11
definitely was money was one of the most difficult topics we had just because of the way I

55:18
view money and the way she views money and as we've come to the ability to

55:24
Value one another's opinions or when others um languages perspectives if you

55:30
will um I think we are better off yeah that's good and I think you know she helps me

55:37
trim my roots and I help her trim her roots in ways that I couldn't do by

55:43
myself or I don't see myself as being able to do alone it's good

55:48
yeah so it's important if if you are you know struggling with money issues in

55:54
marriage maybe that's because you haven't been willing to let those roots be cut back a little bit sure you know

56:01
and haven't recognized that that's a thing or uh yeah or maybe there's opportunities there for you to bring

56:07
balance to your relationship and I would leave it along the lines of what you're saying too I think it's not that

56:14
everybody has to know their language I'm not promoting that but at the same time you know two people with the same kind

56:21
of language are going to be have a more difficult time with finances because of the lack

56:28
of that balance so if two people you know are amicable

56:33
in their money language they're likely going to have a lot of friends because they're spending their money you know

56:39
towards friends but they're going to be broke yeah you know that kind of thing and I think that kind of yeah to be able

56:46
to have that balance is a good thing and to appreciate it if you're single and

56:51
you don't have that opportunity that's okay too you can still get balance yes but still influence of other people and

56:58
you know and having those age-appropriate conversations that say Hey I'm I'm I'm 20 something I'm 30

57:05
something and I'm thinking about this yeah and you know I want to build a house I want to you know it's like

57:10
talking with people there's a lot of really good rich people around you you know probably in your church probably

57:16
whatever that would be like I would love to sit down with you and talk about sure how to set your life up you know or

57:22
whatever yeah I think yeah do that so that's where I'm at thanks for the uh

57:28
thanks for uh let me Spring this one on you just that was good it's not quite what I thought it was gonna be I thought we were gonna solicit some some listener

57:36
funds but you know I think you did I think he did I said send a check but

57:41
they don't know where to send a check so oh wow and then you said venmo but they also don't know where the venmo so I

57:47
don't even think we have a venmo account do we don't oh we'll see that's nice and there's no address so well there you go

57:54
you're just gonna have to um you know wait till we do have a bedbug okay

58:01
if you see Justin feel free tail take he'll take uh what

58:07
do you have donations donations that's right yeah what I need to do is put a wish list on the website podcast oh yeah

58:12
and then people get the contribute towards that that'd be kind of cool actually yeah is that do we do that is

58:18
that an ad I don't know it's sounding kind of like an ad does I let you take care of advertising so yeah yeah that's

58:25
how we see it just so that this sounds better that's all is that all that's how we hear it that's

58:32
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58:40
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