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[Music]

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all it's Christmas time yeah yeah yeah it's all good stuff

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tyranny of the Urgent tyranny of the Urgent at least it's Jolly urgency yeah

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well it's Christ until it gets to be too much yeah and it's B hug yes yeah yes

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I've already vacillated into B hug I'm back into Jolly oh yeah nice job well

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for today oh for the it happens that quickly doesn't it yeah yeah that's that's a vacillator for you right I tell you it

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does go quick it does go quick it's all about the expectation yeah yeah yeah but

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hey I'm I'm just glad you you know you're in the ho ho moment that's right ho ho ho

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[Music]

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moment welcome to how I see it with me Mark Pratt and Justin ber this is a

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podcast that works to countercultural polarization through thoughtful

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[Music] conversations did you decorate for Christmas I see your tree up from here

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oh yeah did I yeah no that's me every Black Friday Megan's like bam we're

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doing this WOW Co by the end of Friday it's usually 90% done um but yeah by the

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end of the weekend she had it all but yeah we got lights up on the front and she got a tree out there I don't know if

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you saw the I did see the tree on the way in yeah like outside no I didn't see the tree outside outside on the patio

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yeah I was still sending a text when I was coming down your driveway I'll be honest it's like you know trying to get some stuff done before yeah right yeah

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so but once I parked yeah I looked at the back of the house there where the addition is yeah yeah your tree looks

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nice thanks yeah thanks you can give all that credit right straight up to me nice job yeah yeah yep no Chris did ours too

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yeah I did lights and Beads yeah it's a beads on the tree mhm nice little white

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beads like I say yeah it is cool that's a tradition you do the lights and Beads

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yeah yeah yeah yeah I guess yeah white lights white beads MH yeah I can I can

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show you a picture if you'd like but let's see it you want see it yeah it's right here I got took a picture sent it

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to to Lizzy she was disappointed she wasn't able to be a part of the process yeah she should be yeah you know it's

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part of her uh her and her mom's her and her mom's ability yeah yeah there you go

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oh yeah that's beautiful that looks very similar to ours even in the corner like that yeah maybe I'll take a picture of

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ours and then we can post them on our uh Instagram happy to do it oh we have an

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Instagram we do a cool yeah here I have all I've been telling people I don't have Instagram so you do you just don't

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know it been posting lots of pictures if you mark yeah no that's okay no lately

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it's just the episode images every week so but we should put some more stuff in

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there like our pictures maybe maybe we should

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Justin yes M yes we yes all right fair enough kind of like

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kind of like decorating a tree you know yeah we know who did yes exactly we decorated the tree

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right but yeah so technology technology that's a Instagram for you

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yeah so would you say no no maybe I'm

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just curious I'm basting that's okay so would you say technology makes

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us more intelligent uh so

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intelligence yeah we got a I I appreciate that yeah definition

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yeah what is intelligence so I feel like there's

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different ways to describe intelligence I think there's the objective okay IQ

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right sure which is not a perfect measurement of all types of intelligence

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it's a measure of a specific aspect of intelligence sure and then there are you know there's

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emotional intelligence right which isn't measured on any IQ tests um but also can

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significantly contribute or or the opposite towards your success right sure

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um there is wisdom which is more of a

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applied knowledge slash intuition maybe slash

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inspiration there is Street smarts sure right yeah where

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you know you grew up on the street and you learn you know you learn the trits you you know how to get get around there

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and but you know if someone are to compete with you and in math test then

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you know you would call yourself dumb but sure in some aspects you know you're smart you know it's so there's that yeah

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um and then there is as we were you know hinting at

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earlier there's also this idea of um inher merited intelligence or basically

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the the generations of you know intellect that's

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been built prior to me has built a certain Foundation of intelligence that

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I can then build my thing on sure and feel like I'm super smart but really it's you know 100 you know

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98% the foundation and you know 2% my application sure you put the star on top

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of the tree basically yeah yeah yeah so that's like so when you say Are we more

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intelligent which one of those sure do you mean yeah and I would

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say and maybe maybe it is more about technology versus intelligence type

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Dynamic but I think about it in the context of having information

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available quicker can make us seem smarter more

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intelligent so in other words the like you shared the

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foundation of information we have to build off of with technology is far more advanced

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than our forefathers yeah because you know you you that's not making light of their

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intelligence but it's our information that has

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grown you know that makes that difference from my perspective yep I think more often than not not we are

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kind of Blown Away by the intelligence of way back you know generations and I

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mean I even think about like in school we learned about the the the

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primer you know what I'm talking about the primer the reading primer me yeah I feel like they called it primer and I

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was like I don't think that's right I got but either way the read the the yeah yeah like the blue it was like this

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iconic sure primmer that like almost like a Himel in an old fashioned Church

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you know you've seen one like well the color you once you saw it you'd definitely recognize what it was yeah

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yeah no but that was a thing in like what 18 early 1800s maybe 17 I don't know like you know early parts of our

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country that kids would learn in the little one room Schoolhouse like and every kid in the school would learn from

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that same book y I got you and the things that they would learn is just like whoa that's way too smart you know

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I hear the stuff they were learning and the stuff they were able to do and even you think about handwriting and like how

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you know intelligent even the the handwriting look this is the way every

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person you know was required to learn penmanship and do it at uh you know a

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level that we can't even and then you think about things like the pyramids right where it's like in some cases in

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some ways we're still not quite sure how they could have accomplished the feat I mean we certainly have theories but it's

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like it would have taken a lot of craziness no matter how it was accomplished for the technology they had

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at that time and then so do you think aliens helped with the pyramids yeah of course do you really no but you know

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okay no I got you yeah I'm a very open minded person but

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that one feels like a bit of stretch well you were just saying you know many different I just checking to see if that

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was one of the many that's all maybe maybe Mark maybe well now you're starting to vacillate come on now is it

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or is we're not talking about conspiracies today otherwise I would definitely that would be I'm not going

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to go down there you're not going to let me do it okay uh no but I was there's this YouTube channel where this guy is

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trying to recreate this bus tee like Sund dial thing mechanism oh wow and um

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he's rebuilding it from like these plans that were you know what was that library alexandrian library I think that's where

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oh yeah where the original plans were found or whatever and in National

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Treasure oh yeah that's right that's right underneath the uh the church in Washington DC yeah yeah

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yeah but no it's so cool it's his whole YouTube channel where he's just

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by bit the church was oh Boston that's right Boston my bad my bad Boston wasn't

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it get your he sent the other guy to Boston no it was wall it was Wall Street

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you are correct all right yeah it was my bad yep I'm I'm glad we straightened that out yeah yeah we want our

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historical fiction facts to be accurate yes but either way the yes theane thing

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uh he's creating this and the amount of effort he's going into recreating these things and he's trying

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to do it using materials that they would have had at the time so certain metals and all that but he's using modern tools

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he's like I'm not no one's going to you know uh so he's using lathes and all

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that kind of stuff but it's incredible like he's talking about

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throughout this whole series like how precise the measurements are and how important these precise measurements are

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for the whole thing to work work and just like and it's you know Byzantine Empire and like I don't know where that stands

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histo I think that's definitely before Jesus right like that's BC

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sure uh oh let you're going to see there's there's our information this is how I'm going to be

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intellectual yeah when was the Byzantine Empire as he speaks into his uh his

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phone now looking now searching 1453 okay okay not before Jesus not before

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Jesus so we're both wrong oh wait 3:30 what uhoh going to have to do a fact

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check now I think when

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technology Byzantine Empire yeah three oh wow so 1100 years

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it lasted okay so 3:30 to 1453

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okay all right not as old as I thought before Christ definitely old

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sure um anyway that was a long uh Meander after

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your question but just how intelligent what is intelligence right

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like is it the ability to create those things from almost no foundation and build what they built I think to me that

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reflects intelligence much much more than well we have a you know a computer

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mhm as our foundation to stand on so we built you know an application or whatever that helps us save a little

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time in our day it's like sure look at this accomplishment we saved you know 20

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minutes from every person's life or whatever yeah and that's you know I'm not going to take away from accomplish

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it today I'm just saying compared to uh you know with the foundation that they're standing on would you call that

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more intelligent I would say definitely not I would say that's that's a blessing of living in this generation is you have

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the past generations to build on yeah that will be true in 200 years that they'll have so would you say as you you

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you mentioned you know the different eras if you will uh the

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pyramids that kind of thing would you say that as a

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culture we tend to look down on previous

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generations in such a way that says they weren't as in intelligent as

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you might personally think they were like the old ways were

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just dumb yeah Antiquated kind of the maybe the

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chesteron fence type thing you know they just

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didn't they just didn't have the intelligence that we have today to be

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able to know mhm the right things to do yeah I mean I

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definitely don't feel that way but I I know that that's certainly a belief system yeah where

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would you say that comes from then that belief system well my guess is that belief system has been true in certain

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Pockets you know of culture throughout all of time that would be my assumption

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help me understand that like every generation there's a facet of people who

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say we're the smartest in the world world and everyone before us was dumb okay you know

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because generally as uh a creature we believe as you know me being the center

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of the universe right and so you know it's

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depending on you how you're bent but I I definitely think it's like I'm definitely the smartest one around you

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know definitely the smartest of every generation you know and uh I don't know

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really so so you would boil it down more to almost a pride Dynamic yeah I would I

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don't know what do you what's your thought well no that's why I'm that's why I'm honestly thinking about it from that aspect of where does if that facet

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has always been there as you're you know proclaiming or you know declaring to a

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certain degree I was I was just curious on that and I hadn't really thought about it I guess I I saw it that I think

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that if I may call it that arrogance seems to be

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growing versus in other words I don't I didn't

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necessarily as I reflect back on you know my parents or my grandparents you know they had

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accomplishments but I I saw how it seemed as if they were you know more

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generationally connected to where you know these these Farms or these you know

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these Acres or this house you know was handed down yeah you know in such a way

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that there was a sense of gratitude towards

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the not not necessarily the the investment but you know there was a gratitude for the effort the work that

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went before us you know clearing this field or you know building this barn or

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you know that kind of thing and I guess I don't necessarily see that

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in the same Dynamic and granted you know that's probably a and there's a part of me that would be able to recognize you

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know as we've grown as the the family system has become more you know spread

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apart you know yeah the nuclear family you know we have the ability to move and

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you know relocate and still in some ways stay connected via Tech technology which

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I'm not you know anti- technology but I I just think we've lost some of that

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that Dynamic yeah of appreciating what you know our the our predecessors have

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done yeah I agree and I think that connects and I guess that's where I'm

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and granted I'm not saying I'm not disagreeing with you that that facet

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wasn't there but I guess I see it more as a growing awareness that it just

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seems as if there is more Judgment of the you know the forefathers in some

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ways that say you know they were just clueless yeah yeah

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so I feel like I agree and I I feel like your assessment is probably

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spoton but I also feel like it's probably history repeating itself and I

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I I keep think as you were talking it kept making me think about your your quote that you brought a while back

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about Good Times make soft men I got you soft man men make bad times bad times

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make strong men strong men make good times sure right I think I got that

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that's pretty close pretty close yeah it's going to be along that line I might start with the the strong men make good

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times yeah hard hard times make strong men strong men make good times

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good times basically make weak men and weak men and weak make hard times yes so yes that's yes so that cycle is what was

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in my mind as you were talking I feel like I mean you you're able to to see kind of a glimpse of maybe up to three

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generations from where you are right so you can see this decline of certain values and certain things but you can

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also at the same time see an incline of good times right like

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so yeah yeah I feel like we're probably heading towards that and I again I feel

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like this I'm certain this is not the first time this has happened I I imagine there's plenty of people in the time of

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Rome the city of Rome that were living in Rome living in up doing good and it you know with the same perspective of

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like our forefathers were idiots and we're the smartest ones around and look what we built and but again they're

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living in Rome City built by the forefathers sure you know there's this Foundation that they're then able to

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build on top of and they think look how tall I'm standing with because they're standing on that Foundation right I I

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feel like it's very cyclical fashion it just in terms of history

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repeating stuff I wasn't there though right so I can't of course I don't know that but it just feels intuitive to me

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that that would be the case and um and it makes sense in that aspect of that

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arrogance led to the fall of the Roman Empire yeah you know to to that degree

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that we can be self- sustaining you know that there is no there is no God there

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is no need for God yeah in this dynamic because we can do it all yeah yeah I

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mean the higher you get in the Tower of Babel yeah right yeah uh you know the easier it is to

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fall yeah I don't know I makes metaphors there but but it's okay in that in that

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process as we're thinking and that's I guess that's where I'm in agreement with you we're not always so self-aware yeah

20:39
as we might think we are yeah because I think it requires an awareness that extends Beyond multiple

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Generations sure and I think that's a tall order for anyone yeah much less those who are inclined to just assume

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we're smarter right like I think that's what's happening more than anything it's like we'll just look around of course we're more intelligent yeah look of

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course you know like and I just think so is information

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deceptive is information deceptive that's in other words explain we can

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look at what we have in other words we have the ability to do this we have we know all of these things yeah I see and

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yet it just makes us in some ways more dependent or you know on that

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information and really we just kind of lose sight in other words our Focus gets

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shifted in some ways and you know we we to to where we become more concerned

21:47
about interest rates and stock markets you know and and just my momentary

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Comfort than being able to recognize okay how do we live our lives in such a way

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that has an impact you know I guess I guess avoiding the distractions of

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information based on recognizing that yes

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history is going to repeat itself and we can learn from that in such a way that

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it says yeah what what do we do now knowing that this isn't going to be the

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way it's going to be forever and and I'm not I'm not and I'm not being dramatic but no but I mean that's just a

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fact yeah that's history right like yeah yeah and I think about it you know even

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I you know I guess I I I wrestle with that part of okay God's faithful all the

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time and yet you know even as a culture I think we're

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kind of in this process that we can figure it all out if we Just Adjust this

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or do that you know we can maintain this this current market or this current

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Dynamic and it's like I guess that I see that as

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being small yeah I'm yeah and I'm not and I'm not

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trying to get into that process of you know a doom and gloom type you know the

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sky's going to fall type thing but I I guess I just see it as being

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bigger than us in the whole scheme of things and I guess that's where I I uh I

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think about it from a dependence mhm a Reliance and I think when we get

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to that point of being able to say we're we're smarter and we've got it all figured out that's a a d a I'll say a

23:50
dangerous place to be yeah well yeah I mean I I agree I guess my question to

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you would be do you feel like the way you feel feel about how it is right now mhm do you feel like it is at a at a

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higher Pinnacle you know than ever in the past I mean just um higher what at a

24:14
higher P like uh I don't know just kind of the sentiment of how smart we think

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we are I I think I think I see that maybe that arrogance if you will more so

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as a culture yeah than and I can recall yeah yeah yeah okay you know I'm not I'm

24:32
not saying that I guess that's what I was asking if you feel like it's at a peak for what you from your Vantage

24:40
Point or if you feel like it's at an alltime Peak if that makes sense yeah from my vantage point the the the the

24:48
mighty 53 going on 54 years yeah I mean through a little bit extension through

24:53
your parents and stories but yeah it just seems as if you know and I guess

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part of it is a lot of it comes back to the information because I think you can

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receive so much information nowadays that isn't necessarily beneficial yeah and there's

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there is I would say there's more confusion in some ways based on the

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amount of information we have available and I think in some ways it has made us

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more um anxious yeah as far as being able to go

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forward in confidence without second guessing ourselves or in that process to be able

25:44
to recognize yeah or if we were to go back

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you know 100 years we could look and you know the

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average person would say that's not a good idea mhm you follow me I mean the

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majority of people would say that isn't a good idea and other words and you can

26:07
take that to whatever you know having you know divorce you know you can take that

26:13
to you know transgender issues you know it's like that's not beneficial and I think as a culture we

26:21
might say well you just don't know how beneficial it is and I would say if we go back in history that person would say

26:28
know I'm not sure that you see where that road is leading and

26:33
the the implications the consequences of that you know and I would I would even

26:40
bring it you know back to a political aspect of okay how how far how far in debt can a country go you know or to

26:48
that degree you know and recognize that there there real there there just isn't

26:54
a consequence to it MH we can we can prop this whole thing up we can make it

26:59
work yeah and yet there's going to be a point where it

27:05
doesn't work anymore right right right I mean and yeah that that that's kind of

27:14
the the dynamic that's like no we think we canh and there's a way to prop this

27:22
up and I guess that's where it kind of and I see the wheels kind of turning in

27:27
your head you know is I'm sharing that I'm not trying to be thinking yeah what are your thoughts on that which part

27:34
well when I was thinking about propping it up from a you know a um yeah I mean that's one of those things where it's

27:42
like I think like you said our for problems be like what the flip are you doing we never intended to be in debt as

27:50
a country intended for every other you know like we wanted to be the greatest country not and yet you

27:56
know we would talk back and say we are the greatest country like uh yeah

28:04
so I think those things are I

28:10
don't I'm not I don't have enough intelligence to speak to those things in a way that's you know that valid but

28:18
I'll just say like I think it's surprising how much were we have been able to prop it up yes

28:25
I would never have guessed we could continue on this trajectory from when I was in high school and hearing about how

28:33
bad the debt was right and all this stuff and like how catastrophic it was and just kind of there's a little there

28:39
was a little bit of Doom and Gloom Outlook as to where how our country was moving mhm and that was 20 some years

28:46
ago and and I'm not trying to re re uh reiterate that not trying to bring that

28:53
up again I guess but recreate that's as

28:58
dimes progress soft men increase I hear you

29:05
poor decisions also increase and wisdom decreases and I I just feel like there's so many correlating circumstances that I

29:12
got you I definitely think at some point we hit the Tipping Point and it goes to Hard Times like I I don't yeah that's

29:18
just history to me and that's where I kind of just ch this whole thing up to a historical pattern I guess my question

29:25
to you was more do you feel like that historical pattern is reaching a fever pitch like you know

29:31
do you feel like we're like it's that up and down cycle is like every wave it

29:36
gets bigger and bigger and bigger to to the degree where we hit the end times right where we're in the Revelation mode

29:42
where things are real bad you know as a result of poor decisions and just you

29:49
know that yeah kind of the Tower of Babel thing and again the Bible's full of those cycles that you know Noah we're

29:57
talking about in church right now and like that was a season where the whole world was evil and it was just you know

30:03
Noah it was whatever and then the Tower of bble is another example of just like the whole world was just yeah at this

30:11
point you know where it there needed to be a shakeup sort of thing and um and

30:18
then like I think about Nineveh too a little bit sure you know I feel like there was kind of a cultural thing there

30:24
that um was arrogant sure you know and I think about the Roman Empire you yeah

30:31
Alexander the Great just all of these Cycles all these Empires they Empires

30:36
rise and fall right like we know that that that's the universal truth you know

30:41
um I guess I'm just more inclined to think this is just part we're just on

30:46
the roller coaster ride I got you and I'm thankful I'm on this part of the roller coaster ride and rather be on

30:52
this one than the hard times but at the same time every generation was fine I

30:58
hear you I mean that sounds Terri I me that is terrible to say cuz there were some generations or some experiences

31:04
that were truly horrifying Holocaust for example and you know there's there's many things as a result of that cycle

31:10
that was very bad for very many people MH and so I genuinely am very thankful

31:17
that I'm on this side even if it means a little bit of soft men and arrogance and

31:22
it's like well I'm glad I'm at this part of the roller coaster ride and I'm and

31:27
I'm think thinking about it in that context and yet I'm also recognizing that's our part right now um and then

31:36
how but how at that point how do you feel about what your kids will experience yeah

31:44
yes um I mean that's

31:52
yes I feel like

31:58
I feel like this ride is going to keep moving up for a little while longer I

32:03
don't know how you're hopeful yes exactly hopeful and also when you say a little while longer

32:12
your children's lifetime yes I honestly don't know because it ties into um excuse me ties

32:21
into I think the AI conversation for me is kind of the most relevant one to my kids future

32:29
honestly that's how I feel is that the AI conversation is really going to be the Tipping Point one way or another for

32:35
whatever the Next Generation Um whether that helps us or hurts us and tips us into bad times or

32:42
you know and further and you know enhances the the good times for a long a little bit longer sure um so I I

32:50
honestly don't know I

32:58
I don't know Mark yeah and that's okay I feel like there's nothing to be done about the roller

33:05
coaster ride but I believe you and I doing this podcast and just the various

33:11
other things I'm doing in life is my version of saying I'm not going to be on

33:16
this ride I'm going to do I want to do Firm Foundation stuff I hear you you

33:22
know what I mean I'm again mixing metaphor so maybe it's not very clear what I'm saying but I guess what I'm

33:28
saying is I'm trying to build my life on principles versus you know information

33:34
yeah the empty empty foundations uh whether it's Information Technology yeah

33:40
you know AI whatever whatever it is or you know like look how great we are all these things I uh chesterton's fence

33:48
that kind of stuff like I really that's what I want to build my foundation on and I want my kids to build their

33:53
foundation on top of these same things sure and so part of this podcast for me and I've said this before is a

34:00
little bit about Legacy about MH you know hopefully that the truth in these

34:07
episodes will permeate sure in future Generations if my kids do have to go

34:12
through crazy stuff I I don't know if that makes sense but it's like I'm doing what I can you want them have a solid

34:20
foundation based on your truths that you desire to share through well not my

34:26
truth but yes what I'm learning hopefully I can help yeah I hear you

34:32
yeah yeah yeah so I I don't know I I just don't have a good answer because I just I I can't control what's going to

34:38
happen to them and it certainly isn't helpful for me to fret about uhhuh what

34:45
that Tipping Point might look like and what they might have to endure right um and I I mean this is something Megan

34:52
talks a lot about but like so many of her clients in you know they just sit in her chair chair and they just chat right

34:58
like that's just the nature of being a hair stylist you know you're kind of like a mini therapist I know I give you

35:04
that therapist no i' I'd say full-on therapist hair a hair therapist that's

35:10
right that's what she C she should put on the yeah yes hair therapist uh

35:16
anyways but one of the things they say so often is like I can't believe you chose to have children in this

35:21
generation or like it's so hard it must be so hard and all this you know just like and so many

35:28
counterparts have actually made that choice you know in our gen I'll say not

35:34
not to have because fewer kids in this generation and to that point you know I'm I routinely have conversations with

35:41
people you know who are saying no we just chose not to have kids you know based on what we see and the fact that

35:47
we wouldn't want to you know raise kids in what we see yeah but Megan and I Al

35:55
also have always bristled against that idea it's

36:00
like yes there's some weird bad aspects to the world right now there's also some

36:06
good stuff and my kids are actually growing up in a very Kush world so like

36:12
you're saying it's going to just be so hard it's like no actually it's easier for them than it was for you you know

36:20
like uh yeah yeah yeah and that and I

36:25
guess that's where I'm I'm wrestling with this information versus intelligence this

36:32
aspect of being able to say okay is it still is there still hope in this

36:40
process of information you know we have so much and we can build on that and I'm

36:47
not saying we can indefinitely props things up there's going to be some consequences to our choices you know

36:54
mine yours today you know in the future that kind of thing you know but at the

37:00
same time I'm thinking about it in this context that you know God still remains

37:05
faithful and yet there's also a consequence to uh a culture that might

37:13
say yeah we've got it all figured out and I I'm with you in that context I

37:18
want you know our kids and I want other kids I want all the kids and all the parents to be able to say no God is that

37:26
you know source that we need over intelligence over

37:31
information you know but I I just see that process of information tending to

37:38
make us more anxious and make us more you know at times

37:45
um distracting us yeah so I just thought of I couldn't like

37:52
really form the thoughts about what I was thinking about my kids but it kind of came to me while you were talking MH

37:58
as it usually does I don't know what you said but I haven't answered to your last question just

38:03
kidding well go ahead um I think about Daniel right in

38:10
the Book of Daniel in the Bible and how that generation uh basically Israel was

38:16
destroyed and taken into captivity I mean that's a bad cycle that's that's the down part the the the roller coaster

38:23
right and yet Daniel shown through that sure he had something that stood out you know that he he he

38:31
was separate from those around him to the degree where he was standing on the foundation of Truth not on the times

38:39
right and that's that's my hope that's my desire that's my goal for my kids and

38:45
that hopefully their kids is like as the roller coaster does what it does stay on

38:51
this firm foundation and stand out you know what I

38:57
mean be be ready make the right choices have integrity like be the one that they

39:02
choose because they can't trust anyone else you know what I mean like that's that's my perspective on my kids I don't

39:09
know what this world is going to do but I want you to stand out and be a light and do the right thing and be the person

39:15
that can shine and be an example of God's children sure in this culture

39:21
whatever this culture is going to do good bad ugly right you know what say to where you become more you become the

39:27
Daniels of this generation or Joseph right or sure that's that's why I Nam

39:33
Joseph Joseph it's like this idea that like whatever life throws at you I want you

39:38
to there's this uh there's this little anecdote or little story is basically

39:44
this donkey Falls in a well right okay and so the farmer goes and goes oh no the donkey in the well we're never going

39:51
to get them out he calls all his farmer friends what should we do and finally they decide well you know what we should probably do is just bury him like we

39:57
should just fill up the well make sure no other donkeys fall in there and kind of put them to his grave kind of thing

40:05
put them out of his misery so they start you know tossing dirt down in the the well and hm interesting the donkey

40:12
shaking the dirt off and stepping up sure so they kept throwing more dirt and man that donkey won't get buried and as

40:17
they realize like they fill up the well and the donkey walks out sure yeah no I hear you that's what I want for my

40:25
kids so when I think about the the craziness the bad the the stuff

40:31
that's about to come I want them to shake it off and step up I hear you you know yeah so that's especially when

40:37
people bring those kind of conversations the Doom and Gloom to the Future I'm like no but that's that's where our Firm

40:44
Foundation really matters and that's where uh our faith can pull us through

40:50
and you know you think about um a hiding place sure corom Cory ten boom and her

40:56
sister got that one right we got yeah you don't have to yell at us this time Linda we got it we got it Mark got it U

41:05
but yeah I mean I I think that's a perfect example of someone who shook it off and stepped up shook it off stepped

41:10
up and just if you read that book it's just non-stop shaking it off and stepping up and that was a I can't think

41:17
of a worse you know situation for someone to go through that holocause situation be in those imprison those en

41:24
encampments see their sister die in that encampment and and yet that Faith held

41:30
strong and she also talks about how hard her faith was and how terrible the thoughts that she had that were so

41:36
terrible and all these things um I guess maybe I'm just naive enough to think

41:43
that's what my kids can have sure you know what I mean can be can be yes sure

41:49
that's my desire that's my goal I feel like I'm not going to have to do that I feel like I have it cushy I gotcha right

41:57
but I also feel like but I really want to prepare them in case that's the case for them and so what does that look like

42:04
well I think it looks like you know this kind of stuff I don't know I don't know

42:10
yeah no I appreciate you sharing on that what about you cuz I know you you asked me about my kids specifically because I

42:16
think you think about your kids a lot too what what are your thoughts about and I think you know it is it is more

42:23
and granted there's a difference between you know lizz's perspectives and John pers John's perspectives you know on on

42:31
life in general you know they're just different yeah I can see it I can yeah I

42:36
can see it yeah and you know and I I I recognize you know probably there is

42:42
that that part that John might be a little more no I'll figure it out I can

42:47
do this and then you know Lizzy has more of that you know concern for you know what's it going to be like or you know

42:53
as you know the possibly at times the difficult y that it would be to you

42:59
know get a job live off that you know income you know be able to have your own

43:05
place to buy a house you know kind of the things that she's seen us do you know I don't know as if she feels as

43:13
confident you know yeah to be able to not that she isn't every bit as

43:20
intelligent or whatever but you know the ability more so than her dad of course but that ability to you know know

43:27
duplicate what we were able to offer her yeah you know and I think there is more

43:33
concern on her part you know to be able to do that and I and I and I think about

43:40
that you know for from that perspective at times you know and I'm not saying you

43:46
know she isn't willing to rise above or isn't GNA be but you know at the same time I'm thinking about it in the

43:52
context of you know I think culture will be a little

43:58
bit different you know as time goes by because you know you know even even from

44:05
a you know how when my kids were young you know how much governmental oversight there was or

44:13
you know dependence on government you know those kind of things I think it's a different Dynamic still part of the I'm

44:19
agreeing with you in that you know part of the the roller yeah the roller cycle

44:25
the the roller coaster cycle roller cycle you know yeah but you know and I'm

44:32
and I'm definitely not um I'm I'm I'm still hopeful you know but I I think as

44:39
a culture I see more of that concern like we're saying about people not

44:44
having kids or you know my kids being able to duplicate what they experienced

44:52
you know in a and you know in granted part of how often will you hear and you

44:57
know nothing against you folks how often will you hear say well you can't you can't do it on a single income anymore

45:05
you follow me you know that's you know another cultural thing it's like years ago yeah that was still possible you

45:13
know in some cases but it does seem in many I'm not saying that's true but it's

45:19
not yeah I mean yeah but yet there's also going to be some choices yeah tradeoffs you're willing to make exactly

45:26
think about Kelly and Jack I think they're doing just fine yeah no I hear you Kelly's my sister-in-law Jackson's

45:32
my brother-in-law who's a park ranger but you know they'll do a single income they have several kids and yeah they're

45:38
making it they're thriving and I think uh there's many other examples but they come to mind yeah but yeah I agree with

45:44
you like there's definitely a I guess two for me it's about

45:50
fighting perception problems yes there's there's a perception that your

45:56
opportunity are limited the fact is no single person's opportunities are more

46:01
limited than any other person's outside of God's grace and sovereignty and again

46:06
this comes back to theology if you know sure for me it does yeah but you have

46:12
white privilege yeah that was God's

46:18
sovereignty I that's the thing I mean you think you you think you're catching me I agree and I think

46:25
that's there's many white men who wouldn't be able to say yeah and I'm

46:32
able to build on that foundation and be successful I know that that's true and I

46:38
know that that's benefited me in my life I can specifically see instances throughout my life where that was true I

46:44
got I had you know but I could choose not to see that sure you see it as the

46:50
sovereignty of God yeah and same with like Lizzy you know like she is going to be fine I believe she loves Jesus and

46:58
she cares about him more than everything else in this world on most good days right like I mean she's like I think

47:04
she's a human like me so some days you know you lose I know she is she's a human yes so she's going to be fine like

47:10
I trust God's plan for her life is going to take care of her even if there are some challenges even if she can't quite

47:17
do it the way you and you know Chris did it like that's of course not important

47:22
that she does it like you did it she can do it better yeah there's going going to do it in a way I believe that she's I

47:29
don't have any doubt she's going to be successful you know what I mean yeah and I think I think sometimes I feel like my

47:38
job in life is to fight that negative perception because again we're you don't

47:46
have to be on the roller coaster ride you can be on the the walk plank next to it that's built on concrete right like I

47:53
you can be separate from it in it but not of it sure right which is what the

47:59
Bible talks about yeah and I I think when we get on the ride okay well you're on the ride now so

48:06
you're going to get what you get sure I don't think you have to be I think you I say that at the same time I am on

48:13
the right like I'm benefiting from the upward swing of economy and all these things and like I can't separate myself

48:20
from that but um I don't know does that make sense any what I'm saying does it does I and I and I I recognize what

48:28
you're saying in other words if you you desire to be like Daniel and on the walk

48:35
plank beside to where you're not given to the rise and the fall and yet there

48:41
is there will be historically speaking and I think this is part of intelligence

48:47
you know our wisdom if you will to be able to recognize yes as a culture

48:53
ignores God there will be harder times that come yeah you know to where you

49:00
know Daniel was walking I mean did he outlive Three Kingdoms or at least three

49:05
kings different you know for sure the MS the Persians you know you know I to

49:12
where I I realized for him yeah he he continued to walk and the kingdoms Rose

49:19
and fell so he experienced that and he was still able to recognize God's

49:24
faithfulness through it all but that that's not to say that he didn't experience some hard times when

49:31
those kingdoms changed when you know he went out of Exile did I think you know

49:37
and here again maybe the maybe it's the roller coaster analogy that breaks down

49:42
you know he was able to continue to trust in God even though the

49:48
circumstances fell down you know he went through that Exile had to move had to do things different yeah you know and yet

49:56
there is that wisdom that faith that is separate from information and then the

50:02
information can tend to lead us to say okay how can I prop myself uph or what

50:10
do I need to do to protect myself you know because it's more about that self

50:18
yeah sustaining than God sustaining yeah and I believe I don't I don't believe in ad uh what's the word

50:27
uh abdic abdicating my responsibilities I believe that first I Look to God as my

50:34
foundation and trust him with the barns being built and then I go you know humbly to build the barns

50:42
right to say yeah um but I you know as far as

50:47
hard times and all that we often will I I think it's natural to hear about the

50:53
stories in the Bible they don't have a lot of color commentary as to how the people felt before after during you

51:01
think about the story of meak Shadrach mesach thank you they were also with

51:07
Daniel right in that whole Exile they were sent to a furnace to burn mhm and

51:14
we think and you know I'm not going to spoil the story yet but like that's a terrible like that's a bad downward in

51:23
the roller coaster like that's yeah if you're on a roller coaster ride like that's that's the end that's where you

51:28
crash I got you they weren't on the roller coaster they were next to it sure and they were spared from being burnt so

51:34
much so that you know Jesus met them in that fire and they were able to be delivered and it made uh what's his face

51:41
the the ruler guy Nebuchadnezzar thank you yeah be like what what in the world

51:47
what do you guys got going on you know yeah and again that's what I want for my kids

51:53
that's what I want for me that's what I want for you that's what I want for you know Lizzy John is like be mash

52:01
masak shadra meshack and been to go be Daniel be Joseph be next to the ride not

52:07
on it sure put your foundation in what really matters and when the

52:13
circumstances come into your life take them in stride knowing that he's in

52:18
control sure none of this matters as long as you're standing on him MH Peter

52:25
you're in the storm Jesus calls you out in the water as long as you're looking at Jesus you can flip

52:31
and walk on water I hear you like you can do something that doesn't make sense

52:37
you know forget the roller coaster now we're in a storm on the sea walking on

52:42
water like clearly a firm foundation is under your feet at that point that's not the actual reality which is water which

52:50
is a storm sure I'm just saying like so many examples throughout the Bible is

52:56
if your foundation's in the right place what whatever is happening around you isn't relevant sure which is again an

53:05
oversimplification relevant sure it it's an enhancement to the story right like

53:12
the the fact that he's walking on water only makes the story better the fact that there was a storm the fact all these things only makes it better you

53:18
know yeah um but the fact is he was just looking at Jesus the focus and trusting him sure yes same where where is our

53:25
Focus mad Shack their faith was their focus same with

53:30
Daniel same with Joseph right it was where their focus was and they weren't being tossed about by the waves around

53:37
them they weren't being thrown off the roller coaster ride they were staying focused singularly focused

53:43
yeah it's good stuff nice job Justin yes your thoughts no it's those

53:51
are those are those are great thoughts and I think you know that's I think

53:56
that's what we need to be able to offer yeah you know to those around us who are

54:03
you know struggling with that that cultural Dynamic of you know the sky

54:09
falling type stuff you know granted it's there is there will be difficult times

54:14
that come our wisdom our intelligence like when you're being told you have to go into that furnace and burn to death

54:21
sure yeah right like I agree with that completely yeah and

54:27
yet I think there the our wisdom can

54:32
tell us that's okay yeah because ultimately there this isn't our this

54:39
isn't our home this isn't our safe place this isn't where we have to live

54:45
indefinitely yeah you follow me to where if it rises if it falls the coaster goes

54:50
up but the coaster goes down you know this isn't this isn't our home right and

54:56
you know I think this is you know we can tend to confuse you know heaven with our

55:03
kingdom on Earth you know that kind of thing and God doesn't offer that you

55:08
know and when I we we we get we get focused on building our kingdom here on Earth you know versus you know being

55:16
able to spend you know eternity in heaven that kind of thing is far different yeah and so I think you know

55:23
at times especially I can say if if I don't recognize that Foundation or you know if

55:31
I don't have that Foundation that's Jesus Christ I'm going to try to prop everything up and all of these other

55:38
characteristic all these other concerns all this information is going to overwhelm and

55:44
concern me it's going to be the waves and you're going to start sinking exactly yes yep and I think that's where

55:52
and granted I'm not saying you know anybody that chooses not to have kids is you know avoiding that you know I'm not

55:59
I just want but at the same time you know being able to recognize okay yeah

56:05
yeah God still has it everything everything under control regardless of

56:12
what you might hear regardless of the you know the choices people might even make you know it's it's a part of the

56:20
plan so yeah yeah yeah I yeah no go

56:27
ahead I definitely have empathy for those who don't you know want to have kids or whatever I don't have any

56:34
problem with that I think it's just a matter of um you know not living

56:40
fear-based right sure and I also think too A lot of times when we live in that

56:47
caution and that whatever we're trying to borrow from tomorrow's Grace right like you you are

56:55
going to to go through some hard circumstances no matter what the roller coaster is doing sure it doesn't matter

57:01
everyone goes through hard stuff some people harder than others right and the

57:07
thing that we have to trust and the thing I'm trusting for me if things go bad but definitely my kids is that when

57:14
the time comes MH they'll be on the Firm Foundation and they will be given what

57:20
they need in the time they need it sure I I don't believe in in this pillars of

57:27
the faith idea where every person mentioned the Bible was A Cut Above

57:33
everyone else not in the Bible uh with a few exceptions I mean I think Paul you know like but in every case where we

57:40
hear incredible circumstances I believe that they were given what they needed in the time they needed it sure you know

57:47
and for Daniel to say I'm not going to eat your food like I bet if you would have asked him five months prior to that

57:55
like if you're he's in Exile and they're barely eating anything and they're you

58:00
know struggling through life if there was a hey in 5 months did you know you're going to be offered the king's best meal will you take it like I'll

58:08
take anything right now sure you know what I mean my guess is like when the time came the Holy Spirit convicted him

58:16
and he said you know what I I think I need to do this different and I don't think it was because Daniel was the

58:22
superpower I believe he had the Holy Spirit I believe that he was Guided by God and given that you know the strength

58:28
in that moment same with Joseph same with Peter right M and I believe that's

58:33
going to be true for everyone listening like if you're able to be looking at him in the middle of that storm then you can

58:39
walk on water if you stop looking at him you won't and he will give you the ability do you think Peter had it in him

58:44
to walk on water of course not I yeah that was god-given right mhm sure that ability that he had

58:52
was not a Peter ability it's not a human ability I got you right and I believe that when

58:59
you are able to walk through fire when you are able to go into your work situation where they want you to do

59:05
something they should you shouldn't and you say I can't I believe you're that is god-given ability to do that sure in the

59:12
moment as you need it and I believe that's going to be true as culture does

59:17
what culture is going to do and you're called in the moment to make a split decision will you support this will you

59:24
stand up against this will you be Lov will you be hateful will you whatever you have an opportunity there to look at

59:30
Jesus and do something Supernatural right to do what he's given you the ability to do or you can say I've been

59:37
preparing for this my whole life and I'm ready you know and like I don't know I always knew this moment was going to

59:43
come and I got my shotguns ready and like you know what I mean yeah I think

59:48
the former is better I hear you yeah well thanks for sharing see it yes

59:54
that is how you see it and I appreciate you sharing yes those are good things got me all

1:00:02
fired up I did I see that anything else my shotguns ready I don't have any anything else

1:00:08
anything else you need to uh get off my chest no I'm serious and that I appreciate what you're sharing and then

1:00:15
recognizing yes we we don't we don't have anything over our forefathers but yet they have

1:00:23
given us a foundation that we can build on in wisdom that is able to say yeah we're not

1:00:29
smarter if anything we can be more distracted yeah and I think that's where

1:00:35
the information piece comes in as we try as I try to try to bring it back to you know technology versus information I

1:00:43
think like it's kind of like investment yeah like when we build on a foundation that was previously built we we should

1:00:50
think of it as an like how we invest our money when you put your money in a certain investment there's no guarantee

1:00:56
M but you do your best right to figure out what's going to be a reasonable

1:01:02
return and and then you recognize that there's Market fluctuation right so

1:01:07
there's going to be good days and bad days but ultimately if you know you you try and do the right thing and then I feel like when you build on the fir the

1:01:14
foundation that's built by previous generations that's what it is like sure I'm going to build on this thing but I'm

1:01:19
not going to put all my eggs in that basket yep you know and I think all our eggs should be in the Jesus basket and

1:01:26
what we build out here is still built on the foundation that's with him but we are able to say this is an investment in

1:01:32
this direction it may work out it may not this AI thing might you know become a thing or might you know destroy us all

1:01:39
but for now I'm going to use it to enhance what I'm able to you know like sure so I feel like that's what

1:01:45
technology is I I feel like that's what using the the wisdom you know that sorry intelligence the foundation that's been

1:01:51
built by previous generations is this an opportunity to poten build more on top

1:01:57
of it but recognizing that that could fall sure you know and that's okay yep

1:02:03
back to that original thing and that's how we see [Music]

1:02:11
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