0:01
[Music]

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never drank never drank coffee regularly or ever ever I well I've had I've had

0:13
sips enough to let me know that is not a flavor in other words most from my

0:19
perspective most people don't like coffee yeah they like creamer and sugar

0:25
in their coffee therefore they drink coffee yeah but if to have like they like creamer sugar and caffeine yes to

0:34
wake up there you go right yeah and I I guess like you say I typically

0:39
considered myself self- caffeinated you know in that wake up process it's like I

0:45
just wake up yeah and I don't and so yeah I've never really gotten into drinking coffee I mean I've tried to you

0:53
know the mochas and the the carel lattes and stuff you know do you like that it's

0:58
okay yeah but it's still just has that bitter yeah my dad does not like coffee he he would agree with you wholehearted

1:05
yeah yeah it's just why would I subject myself to that bitterness you know when I don't like that

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[Music]

1:17
flavor welcome to how I see it with me Mark Pratt and Justin Sternberg this is

1:24
a podcast that works to countercultural polarization through

1:29
thoughtful [Music] conversations it's kind of like the

1:35
rolling your tongue thing like some people can roll their tongue some people can't I feel like

1:41
some people really that just that taste of coffee is just offputting yeah yeah and others

1:50
it's complimentary to their cream and sugar and others it's yep CU I wouldn't

1:55
even necessarily waste my money on coffee ice cream

2:00
yeah because it's just why would you choose a bitter ice cream yeah I hear you you know that kind of thing so yeah

2:07
that's where yeah that's my take on coffee yeah but my dad would agree I I

2:13
don't translate the taste of coffee as bitter anymore like that's long long long gone yeah but and

2:20
I think that's just from drinking you know whatever um there are some coffees that are gross like Starbucks really yes

2:29
I do like Star oh wow we're going to get we're going to get letters on that I can that's right bring them on I I think

2:36
most most pure like real coffee drinkers would agree they're M they're like mixed

2:43
drinks right like they're uh fancy drinks most people like those I mean it's hard not to like that much sugar

2:48
okay um I like those drinks I'm just saying like they're pure coffee coffee okay yeah I don't like and I know a lot

2:55
of people also don't like it but yeah also some people do and that's okay yeah yeah and I think I yeah yeah I I'm

3:04
not a big fan of just plain sugar either when I see you know like to have to put

3:09
a tablespoon of just granulated sugar in something reminds me as a kid when I had to put you know two tablespoons of sugar

3:16
on Cheerios to kind of make them you know like the rest of the cereals out there but yeah I just I I've I've

3:23
stepped away from that I guess yeah yep yeah there's also something to be said for caffeine of course too which you

3:30
know I think a lot of people like C the caffeine um I I never I mean people

3:36
could say I'm a denial and that's fine I I never felt the effects of caffeine

3:42
very much and in fact if I drink too much caffeine caffine sometimes I'll get

3:47
sleepy you know what I mean okay adverse yeah and then also it will hang on hang

3:53
on now You' just said I drink coffee to help me wake up but I don't I didn't say that I don't drink it to help me wake up

4:00
cuz I maybe that was I like the taste of coffee I drink black coffee you know

4:05
that like I don't I don't I agree with you about the cream and sugar thing like I actually really like the taste of

4:11
coffee and I enjoy the warm liquid experience too so it's that combo cuz I

4:17
like tea sometimes just for the warm liquid I thought you had mentioned and maybe it was prior to recording we won't

4:23
be able to go back and you know do the challenge flag on it but I thought you had mentioned that and maybe you were

4:28
speaking about people in general I was you know using coffee to help them wake

4:33
up that kind of thing well you said people only like the sugar and cream I said also they like being able to wake

4:40
up in the caffeine yeah okay that's that's the challenge flag right there I got you no that's fair enough that's see

4:46
this is how we see it you know that's how I heard it that's right yeah right so no thing no wakeup effect for you

4:54
yeah if anything if you drink too much you can get dozy I think the older I get the I

5:00
it does have some effects more than it did when I was younger um and what where I see it the most is if I drink it late

5:06
at night sometimes I'll have a hard time sleeping and it's like one in five times

5:12
it will so I don't drink coffee at night anymore um although every Friday night I drink coffee at Celebrate Recovery okay

5:19
just lots of it w yeah that's my drug of choice when I go to my recovery program

5:25
it's coffee yes caffeine yeah but by the time like when I go to bed I I never have trouble sleeping Friday nights oh I

5:32
would doubt it so yeah I mean that there's more to that too probably but uh so you know it's I don't know I don't

5:39
drink it for the the caffeine at least that's what I believe yeah I also drink half calf like my pot I make every day

5:46
is half caffeine so would you get the would you be subject to the headaches if you go a day without it that's why I

5:51
actually switched to half calf because it I would notice that and and yeah I

5:57
would get headaches I think it still can occur depending on how like if I stick to my one pot a day which is half CF

6:04
sure uh and I don't drink it a day after or two it doesn't bother me okay but if

6:09
I increase that if I do my pot plus some other cups and that's kind of becomes a normal thing I can feel the yeah the

6:17
withrawal effects I guess yeah huh fair enough everything you ever wanted to

6:22
know about Justin's coffee habit yes brought to you by how I see it yep yeah

6:29
so a good segue sure to what's that word

6:34
to to tetr hydro cannibal can can

6:39
cannibal can cannabol there you go cannibalism tetr Hydro cannabol we've

6:46
never talked about cannibalism that would be no we have not that would be pretty cut and dried I would think it

6:51
would be yes that's not what we're talking about yeah we're talking about Tetra Hydro

6:59
hdro canab yep yep also known as THC THC yes

7:05
otherwise known as marijuana right yeah yeah why are we talking about that Mark

7:10
well it's interesting because I I think it is a polarizing topic and it was you

7:16
know as we I think there are both sides of a

7:22
story of the of the people are going to look at marijuana differently yes don't

7:29
doubt about it it's a how I see it topic and you know and I think there

7:35
again it needs to be a topic that we're able to talk about yeah and I think that's why we're talking about it not

7:42
that you and I are going to necessarily be on any opposing sides of the fence type thing but yet at the same time I'm

7:50
going to try so so also I 100% agree

7:55
with everything you saying you said I I wrote down some statistics from some these articles we are reading just

8:01
because that because it kind of makes the point for me that I want to make which is uh so some of those statistics

8:06
are more than one in three Americans live in states where it's legal to smoke pot recreationally sure uh 538 reports

8:13
uh over 60% of adults uh say both medical and recreational marijuana should use should be legal according to

8:20
Pew uh additional 31% are okay with legalizing just medical use um let's see

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there's another one here um cannabis marijuana is the world's most common commonly used illicit drug post

8:35
polls suggest that one in8 us adults smoke and more than 40% of them have tried the drug at some point in their lifetime a majority of states allow some

8:42
form of medical marijuana use in nine states in Washington DC have now legalized recreational use M so for me

8:49
to the the answer to the question why are we talking about this is because it a lot of people arep it's a topic yeah

8:55
it's a real thing people are uh very people around you are using it or

9:01
actively involved in the culture whether whether we're talking about it or not

9:06
right and so that's for me kind of the the thing that we kind of just have

9:11
to pull our heads out of the sand a little bit and just talk about this the subject that is very much a real thing

9:17
for a large chunk of people in your life that makes does that make sense makes perfect sense and it and it's

9:24
interesting because I'm sure you know and granted you know our our range

9:29
listenership based on a Agee group you know we're not necessarily going to be hitting you know that really older group

9:37
but my sense is you know that older group is definitely going to have a different viewpoint on marijuana than

9:43
some of our younger group and I and I'm and I'm not saying that's wrong I'm just saying even in my lifetime you know I've

9:52
in other words I know that my kids or people know

9:59
who to go to in their vicinity to be able to purchase marijuana today and

10:06
that was something that I never knew about you know for me at that that same

10:11
age you follow me it wasn't even something that you know I'm sure if I

10:17
wanted to ask certain people I could have found it but it wasn't like

10:22
something that I knew exactly who to go to yeah and you know and and even and

10:28
here again uh maybe a little uh what do you call it disclaimer I am

10:34
not an addictions counselor okay I'm just going to put that disclaimer in there but I definitely work with people

10:41
I've definitely seen how you know the effects of marijuana tend to affect some

10:46
of my clients you follow me so some of you know some of what I speak about I'm going to you know bring from some

10:53
personal experience but you know that disclaimer there to say you know I'm not an addictions counselor but I think

11:00
I see what you're describing you know in my office in that process of more and

11:07
more people are look and I I just had a you know a couple that I was working

11:12
with last night you know who he is very much you know the if you will the it

11:18
comes out of the ground it's good yes perspective oh yes yes you know that

11:24
kind that's not uncommon yeah exactly and I think you know that's part of that growing

11:30
you know part of that 60% that we see you know and I think you know legalization versus

11:37
decriminalization are you know two other you know words that kind of get thrown

11:42
in there but most of the time when we're talking about States we're talking about legalization y you know and and

11:48
therefore it becomes public access right at that point yeah and all that to say

11:55
um I just don't feel like most of churches most churches most

12:02
Christian cultures or whatever have addressed this topic well enough you know no because as as the states open up

12:10
and the the legality it's like we no longer can depend on legality informing our morality which sure uh interestingly

12:18
enough our one of the pastors at our church just spoke on addiction a little bit this last week and he talked about

12:24
this stuff too so no doubt um but yeah that that same concept like uh I think

12:29
church has you know in some ways leaned on that a little too much to just say well it's illegal so there's your answer

12:36
and um yeah I I mean we can we can debate the merits of where morality and

12:43
and legality you know sit in terms of whether you should obey the law that kind of thing that's not really what

12:49
this episode's about this is more about the conversation and seeing sure right and I thought and I thought when uh

12:57
Jeremy you know gave his thought it was it was definitely an interesting the pastor who spoke on this yeah you know

13:03
he definitely brought up a a good point as far as in scripture where sorcery is

13:09
used that's where we get our in the Greek that's where we get our word Pharmacy you know PHA there's a there's

13:16
a Greek word for that I think it was PHA yeah but you know that's that's where the basis of that word was and I it did

13:23
I did look into that a little more I found where you know he had kind of found that and it and it had more more

13:29
to do with the combination of like witchcraft spells

13:36
and drugs you know these things that tend to alter a PE a person's being if

13:42
you will you know that was that was where that were it's not just witchcraft which I under which which I

13:49
appreciate his point it does include that aspect of drugs and things that alter the individual yeah so you know I

13:57
mean that being said you know I'm going to recognize for me personally and I think I conclude you

14:02
you know biblically speaking things that alter who we are the Bible is against

14:09
you you know those things Bible tells us not to be intoxicated in other words

14:15
especially holds leadership you know in a high example of that you know from the

14:20
Kings you know in Proverbs you know you know more and that definitely you know

14:25
more in regards to alcohol at times you know when we're talking about but when we think about that you know that aspect

14:32
of I think the Bible is very clear you know that we're not to be out of control

14:38
of our bodies in a intoxicated form yeah so I think you know that is something

14:44
you know that we can address you know in this process and I think it can come I

14:50
would hear someone who can basically and I'm I'm drawing a little connection here

14:56
I can hear someone who would basically say okay it's legalized in my state I'm

15:01
going to I'm going to go there you know it's legalized in my state and

15:06
therefore the the the line is drawn the connection is drawn between alcohol and

15:12
marijuana so if I can legally consume alcohol which the Bible talks about as

15:19
well you know I'm drawing this connection to where as long as I'm not going above this line of intoxication

15:28
you know it should be okay for me right you know based on that similarity to

15:33
alcohol so I mean and I think you and I fall in the same place of um you know

15:40
there's not there's not an inherently evil plant or chemical right I hear you

15:45
right I I yeah I would I would dare say all things God has given us all things

15:51
for life and godliness yeah you know that kind of thing I think plants all plants have a purpose and granted you

15:58
know mean when I think of Poppy and opium and you know it's like okay I can

16:04
understand you know it's the I guess in some ways I'll look at

16:09
that as as scripture refers to money you

16:15
know it's not that money is bad it's the love of money yeah you follow me and I

16:20
and I think and the M you know hemp and you know this this is where you know it

16:26
gets complicated for me personally cuz you know I recognize it is complicated I guess that's what I wanted

16:33
yeah because I'm I'm recognizing that you know there was a whole hemp industry

16:39
if you will that was basically coincided with the cotton

16:46
industry but because of the effects of marijuana and these other things hemp

16:52
fall fell aside in other words it's lost its share of the market at much much much at the same

17:00
time as prohibition from my perspective you know but that's that doesn't mean that you

17:06
know hemp you know marijuana that you know that corded part of it isn't just

17:12
as viable as cotton you follow me from No I'm trying oh well from its original

17:18
Source in other words when we look at a plant as a plant marijuana has other byproducts

17:27
that are usable you know the plant itself besides it's

17:34
intoxicating yeah particles THC does that make sense

17:40
so yeah I'm in agreement with you that it's not the evil plant it's what we do

17:45
with it that tends to lean towards what can

17:50
become evil yeah does that make sense yeah there's another verse of as we're

17:56
talking about versus you know um there's another vers about not being enslaved like sure you know avoid anything that

18:02
will enslave you you know and so I think that might be the most to me the one of

18:08
the more relevant scriptures in regards to anything that's addictive whether it's alcohol or know marijuana or

18:16
whatever is the enslaving is is very problematic and then like you said the

18:21
intoxication is very problematic uh both of those things MH by Nature are not e

18:28
easy to delineate to to draw a clear line to say this is where this is where this is when you look this is when

18:35
you're drunk and this is when you're not exactly this is when you're enslaved this is when you're not right yep um

18:42
yeah one one of the Articles we read was by John Piper um I read a couple by him

18:48
his perspectives kind of shifted in many ways it was a little hard to pin down what he was saying but one of the things

18:54
he said very clearly was that we're not meant to live by rules we're meant to live by the spirit sure and I love that

19:01
because that's yeah if there's anything I wanted to be heard out of this episode be like listen to the spirit like yeah

19:09
and another thing I appreciated about that specific article you know we tend to think you know it's like there's this

19:16
and I and I think there is a maybe Onslaught is too strong a word but you know when we think about States and

19:22
legalization I I'll quite often hear well North Carolina won't be long you know before you know but in that in that

19:29
process I think having the conversations is also beneficial cuz you know he would in that article he mentioned how Utah

19:37
had actually you know there were individuals in the state of Utah

19:43
religious individuals if I may say so you know Church Affiliated individuals um who basically fought to make sure

19:52
that Utah wasn't one of those states that legalized marijuana so I think you know that's another advantage to have

19:58
having these conversations and you know even in in what I was looking at it you know it was funny to kind of uh uh

20:07
recognize yeah I I like researching I like reading articles but it's like I'm

20:12
always calling into question where a source comes from you follow me it's like that's why I like reading so many

20:20
so many and from different because yeah you get you kind of get a sense of where you where you are in the middle of all

20:27
these voices and you can because it was funny I I wanted to kind of see you know some of a lot of the art

20:35
I I I looked into Colorado you know as you know a part of that beginning of the

20:41
industry if you will you know and there was a ton of stuff you know based on

20:47
2014 you know when it when it really came out and they were talking about you know the aspects of how it was supposed

20:53
to be this wonderful thing and generate you know tax dollars and you you know

20:58
that and it really never met that goal and it was funny we I this I hadn't

21:04
heard about this before but you know we hear about you know people who are anti-

21:10
you know cattle or anti because of the the water usage and and all that and it

21:17
was interesting because when Colorado First did that they recognize that there

21:23
was a ton of individuals who started growing at home growing their and they

21:29
they realized that they were having problems with the electrical grid because people were you know having

21:36
lamps and you know to where it was supposed to lower you know this you know

21:42
what you call utility cost it supposed to lower yeah lowered the utility cost but people were using more electricity

21:49
to grow their plants and they were and it's like the amount of water that it took really to to grow was it was like

21:55
all those all those you know predictions were off but it was funny cuz uh in the article I happen to be reading from the

22:01
University of Colorado so like you say I took that a little bit they uh the the title of the article was

22:09
um Colorado's uh mellowing marijuana usage well and the interesting part was

22:17
it um they it was recently as in

22:23
20123 they were they were citing that the it was a 1.3 billion doll industry

22:31
in 2023 uh 2022 is a 1.7 okay billion doll industry and the

22:39
interesting part was it went to in 2021 it was a $2.2 billion industry so

22:47
they were showing that you know as a decline but it also there was no mention

22:53
of what else was going on in 2021 which was after co co you know that

23:00
whole you know that whole it made me think about it's like okay yeah everyone sitting at home let's try out these

23:07
plant we've been growing exactly that's true everybody's home you know it just

23:13
made me think about it in that context is trying to cope with the world going crazy yes you know so you know the

23:20
world's going in a hand basket here let's just mellow for a bit you know so it

23:25
really I wasn't I would have loved to have seen it on like a you know a chart

23:30
you know a flow chart you know to be able to show that Spike if you will but I just thought that was interesting that

23:36
there was no mention of you know the covid epidemic and all that went along with you know 2020 2021 that kind of

23:43
thing but I I think that's so interesting in terms of all the numbers and stuff because the other thing too is

23:50
there's there's always the shiny and new syndrome right so you know the whole

23:55
state turning into growing them their selves and all that you know just kind of the impact that wasn't anticipated

24:01
was um to me uh I think partly easily partly easily explained by that shiny

24:07
and new and like oh let's I've never done marijuana my whole life but now it's legal let's let's let's do this

24:13
right let's grow a plant let's you know whatever I don't know I could see how you anticipate just the normal usage

24:20
that's currently happening but now it's being used through a legal Channel and I think that's you know obviously not what

24:26
happened it sounds like um but I I also don't think that that's not necessarily a

24:32
sustainable Arc if that makes sense I think you'll you'll get some people who are now like this is their thing they're

24:37
addicted whatever maybe addicted maybe not but it's their thing um but I also think there would be a lot of people who

24:43
just go back to life like you said they have to go back to work they have to whatever yeah uh yeah a lot of the thing

24:50
the science the math the numbers the stats around marijuana is just so limited because of the illegal nature of

24:57
it for so long that there wasn't as much science being done about it there wasn't as much statistics being done about it

25:04
you know sure um so it's interesting to even read some of these articles and say

25:09
we were're starting these randomized trials and you know they've been started but like we need years and years before

25:15
we can kind of trust the data sure so that's also interesting to me considering how long this plant's been

25:22
used for like how are we what have you guys been doing like why why didn't you start studying this a long time ago yeah

25:28
that that's surprising to me that there's not nearly as many studies on it well I think in some ways it was part of

25:34
that stigma you know we're not going to study illegal drug necessarily who you know maybe access too like access to

25:41
people who are willing to you know access to the drug ex itself just aess in general would be very now we have

25:47
states that are basically conducting their own yeah you know case study if

25:52
you will yeah yeah and it's and it's just interesting you know and I and I

25:59
I don't know maybe you heard maybe you read this maybe you didn't I thought it was interesting too because they

26:04
um in in the research that I was reading and like I say some of those were the earlier days but they uh they talked

26:11
about it creating its own Black Market if you will because of the fact that it

26:16
was a state's issue it wasn't there wasn't Federal you couldn't use federal

26:23
money you know in other words you couldn't use there was a that connection to

26:29
Federal money that because it wasn't legal federally you couldn't access

26:34
Federal resources you follow me and so in some ways people were going around

26:40
and it made it its own it made its own Black Market if you will and it was just

26:45
kind of an interesting thing to see about how you know even even as far as when it was legalized like um the postal

26:55
industry like took a major spike because people were actually shipping

27:01
marijuana out of Colorado because they could legally so that was a part of that

27:06
industry if you will that basically said okay yeah if we sh you know uh if I can

27:12
purchase it legally you know but I can ship it illegally I can still you know

27:18
reap a income from this you know and it was just kind of interesting how they talked about it as far as you know the

27:25
some of the adverse effects that no one would have predicted and just or maybe

27:31
there were those that did predict but you know it was called they you know definitely kind of a caught off guard

27:38
and I think it had the other part too where um a lot of the states around col

27:44
Colorado well I don't even think Colorado itself was prepared from an

27:50
adct an addictions type you know be mental health Dynamic and the states around

27:57
them were definitely kind of flooded you know with this Dynamic of addictions

28:04
counseling now really yeah they really had a you know as we look at it you know

28:10
and I mean granted these are some of the things that kind of go in the back of my mind you know when I'm you know talking

28:17
with a a 22-year-old college student that basically says hey you know this is just something I'm going to do for the

28:22
next two years and you know and yet I realize that's that can be arrogance you

28:30
know on that on that part you know to be able to say yeah I can cut this out

28:35
whenever I want to but currently this is how I wrap up the end of every day yeah

28:42
you know that kind of thing and it's you know y it's like that's that's the part that you know and the more I see yeah

28:50
needs to be legalized the more I'm you know recognizing okay yeah not

28:56
necessarily sure the benefit are there not saying I minimize what the chemical

29:03
you know is able to do for those who struggle with pain yeah you follow me that was another part I think of uh the

29:10
piper articles you know that basically said yeah you know there are you know

29:17
medicinal you know values to this that help people with pain and yet you know a

29:23
lot of the industry if you will isn't regulated from a a a medical standpoint you follow

29:33
me it's more recreational in its usage by far y yeah I I guess for me like so I drink

29:43
coffee every day you know and caffeine is my drug of choice it's definitely a drug it's definitely mind altering sure

29:50
right sugar itself sugar itself yep so there's a Continuum as always in most of

29:55
our conversations of what addiction looks like and the impacts it has on your life um and I'm going to say like

30:03
I'm one of probably the most ignorant person about marijuana I hear that I

30:09
know I got you I don't know the negative impacts I don't know the I mean I've done reading obviously I can see that

30:15
but like uh I know a lot of people like like you who do it regularly and they

30:22
seem normal do what like you smoke marijuana you're not referring to me doing marijuana Reg ularly uh do you I

30:29
don't know probably not a lot of people like you who do it

30:35
regularly so that's where no I know a lot of people like you know a lot of

30:41
people I know a lot of people like Mark who do it regularly exactly that's funny that's not what I

30:47
was saying in case you but no I appreciate it I appreciate it clarify I guess my question is

30:55
like I don't believe coffee's wrong I believe just like anything if you're enslaved to it it's wrong you should

31:02
address that you should listen the Holy Spirit say hey chill out on the coffee switch to half C maybe sure you know

31:07
chump you know that that was what I heard you know yeah was that what you heard yeah well not chump but you know

31:14
maybe chump I can't remember God refer to us as a jump lovingly okay that's fair a little pat on the top of the back

31:21
of the head come on jump you know that there you go okay I I think sometimes God operates in that way spirit's

31:27
personal to us yes yes uh anyway and and alcohol is another one right where it's

31:33
like um you know we just discuss that on Sunday there's no clear um you know

31:39
scriptures that say do not drink alcohol and people who say Jesus turned water and grape juice are just I mean I

31:46
believe in denial um I think it was legit alcohol I think there's a reason the the party dude said this is the best

31:52
I've ever had you know that kind of it wasn't cuz this really good grape juice wow people save the good grape juice for

31:59
the end when everybody's had enough grape juice no everyone's intoxicated so

32:04
they save the the worst for last that's you know that's the reality of it not being grape juice yeah it's a little

32:10
silly to go grape juice but that's that's what I grew up on right it was grape juice and just put that denial uh

32:17
you know mask on saying it's grape juice grape juice sure uh but anyway so you

32:22
know alcohol obviously has terribly negative consequences in fact a lot of these articles I was reading was saying

32:29
um you know THC and marijuana's impacts are barely compared to the negative

32:36
aspects of alcohol in terms of what it can do to your body but also addictive capacity I got um and also uh impacts

32:44
the culture around you know the culture that kind of thing um again not advocating for marijuana use or anything

32:50
like that I'm just saying like um we just we we put it in its own category

32:56
and I think it needs to be fit inside of these other categories so that we can make a proper judgment um and I

33:04
and I think part of that proper judgment is looking at what it does as a whole to

33:10
the majority of people right you know what I mean because I as you're drawing the connection to alcohol I'd agree you

33:16
know with everything you're saying and I think we can also draw some of those connections to nicotine smoking if you

33:23
will you know you know the act or you know vaping if you want but you know seeing how that transformation you know

33:31
has occurred and being able to recognize that you know everybody has that Uncle

33:39
that smoked you know Mars from the time they were 14 and they lived to be

33:44
probably has an uncle who smoke marijuana too yeah might be a little more likely a

33:49
hippie but the chill Uncle versus the yeah the mar world man so there's going to be these people that you know we're

33:56
going to be able to point to and say well this person uses it and it didn't

34:02
create an issue it was fine air fine air qus yes it was fine and yet that's not

34:10
going to be the story of everyone right for the majority of people you know that

34:15
kind of thing and I it's interesting because um another individual I was uh

34:21
he would fit that category of a you know of a not a ex hippie but you know he was

34:26
he was that grew up in that area smoking the marijuana you know to the point of

34:33
basically saying hey if my kids want to learn about smoking marijuana I'll go

34:38
buy it and they can try it in front of me that way you know there's not an issue now his wife on the other hand was

34:45
on the other end of the spectrum it's like no you're not doing that with our children right you know that kind of

34:51
thing which I completely understand and yet you know listening to him today you

34:56
know he's also recognizing the difference between what he used to smoke back then and what's available today is

35:03
a far different Dynamic you know as far as his concerns are more about the

35:08
lacing effects that we've noticed over time which you know in this and and I

35:14
think you know there is a difference between like a pharmaceutical Dynamic and you know but

35:20
what the average person can purchase there are no controls or regulations over you know that's that's a that was

35:27
another concern that he expressed as I'm having these you know conversations with people it's like yeah it's not the same

35:35
thing that we were doing years ago you know so where where I it's another aspect where that age you know can tend

35:43
to view my VI change my viewpoint on something yeah it's like yeah I did live

35:48
through that era and you know and I probably did smoke too much but yet at

35:55
the same time I'm not sure sure I have the same he was willing to admit I don't

36:00
have the same view today that I did back then when I was raising our children you

36:06
know and I and I value that you know it's like he was able to say okay yeah some of the circumstances have changed

36:12
and I think that's what we have to I think both sides need to be able to recognize okay yeah how do we have these

36:19
conversations knowing that it's gone from an illegal substance in many ways

36:25
you know to a pseudo legal yeah half you know depending on the state you know

36:31
that kind of thing so yeah being able to have the conversation yeah and yeah it's not even

36:39
fully legal in the sense that it's not uh federally legal sure exactly it's a

36:44
state issue also very interesting to me as I read these it's like how does that

36:50
what are those lines fall in I think you know obviously the federal side of things has chosen to let the States

36:58
override stand right and I think that's I think overall that's a good thing um

37:04
because of states rights in the way that the country is made but yep it's just very interesting um but yeah I

37:11
definitely yeah I think that's the struggle for me uh again not because I want to go out and smoke marijuana but

37:18
just like this conversation is like well I hear what people are saying about it's

37:23
bad for you it can it has these negative impacts I also hear people say it has these potential positive impacts I also

37:29
hear the medical side right and so sure I I for me I kind of separate the medical side completely over to the side

37:37
and say that that to me is fine because if we're going to prescribe vikan into people sure we also should be have the

37:44
option prescribe medical marijuana I hear you right like there's so much

37:49
dangerous things that we prescribe to people way worse sure so I'm like if that can be yeah if that can be part of

37:56
some sort of prescribe thing fine like if a doctor he says I think in your case this would actually be helpful that's

38:02
you know that's what medicine is so for me that line is pretty easy to draw and I I have no problem with that as far as

38:08
that being a legalized thing from my perspective that's how I see it maybe there's signs I'm missing maybe there's

38:15
articles I'm missing that would change my mind that's okay no I hear you uh it really just kind of comes down to the

38:20
recreational thing and how like you know I enjoy cigars once in a while you know

38:26
mhm and I enjoy it because I like sitting on the porch and smoking a cigar

38:32
it has this overarching feeling sure that comes with

38:37
it of chill I got you and um I've had some of my favorite conversations with people over a cigar like there's just

38:45
something about sitting on a porch looking out together and having a conversation and being tied to the porch

38:50
through something you know what I mean like uh I think that's what I've discussed this a few of my friends who

38:55
smoke cigars as well like the fact that for that period of that smoke you know like you you this is what you're doing

39:02
sure right you're not going in the house you know you're not you're not driving you're not whatever this is this is you

39:09
specifically sit down to smoke that cigar and enjoy that time sure um and so

39:15
there's some i i i to me it's a bonding experience it's a bonding experience um it's a chill experience I don't know I

39:21
enjoy it you know what I'm saying and again for anyone who's afraid I'm saying

39:27
I'm to go out and buy marijuana smoking that's not what I'm saying I'm just saying like how is it different explain it to me like how how should I be more

39:35
cautious about marijuana or is it the same and like you you know people who are saying you know marijuana's evil

39:42
would look at the cigar thing and say the exact same thing but I I don't feel like that's the case I feel like there's

39:48
a stronger stigma can you speak to that is it you know what I mean and I think I think

39:55
they'll here again can a

40:01
person in my opinion can a person use marijuana like you use a cigar right can

40:08
they can they one usage type Limited in

40:13
it's you know not one after the other type thing you know in that process you know in its in its multiple forms of

40:20
usage you know if you will um can a person do what you did yes I believe a

40:26
person can you know is it is it likely that that

40:32
person will have a greater addictive effect with marijuana than your cigar I

40:38
would dare say yes you follow me in that context when I when I'm and and here

40:44
again I I see a variety of people I guess is

40:49
what I'm saying um I have you know 20 year olds who are in college basically

40:55
saying yep I'm a stoner you know and I'm going to be a stoner for the next two

41:01
years and I'm just going to come out of this and I'm going to look back at my

41:06
college experience you know like my father and say yep that was part of that experience now it's all behind me yeah

41:14
now I can't guarantee that for that individual you follow me but yet I can

41:20
also recognize he's looking at his father and recognizing that was a part

41:26
of his experience you know and that's not to say that you

41:31
know his father went on you know he knows that his father no longer smokes that kind of thing you

41:38
follow me that's his example yep and yet I also know other people who are who are

41:44
fighting tooth and nail to try to stop because they have also recognized

41:51
that there is a there was a mellowness

41:57
you know if you will that um chill it did offer a chill a lot of the people

42:03
that I talk with you know started using marijuana to basically take that edge

42:08
off as they describe it you follow me and I'm going to say I'm I'm I'm going

42:16
to say that 60% that we're talking about in some ways you know that are in favor

42:22
basically recognized that yes it had that effect and that when I speak with

42:29
their spouses you know that that that desire

42:35
continued so now they do need to use it more to have the same effect you follow

42:43
me that's that's just the reality of it and you know here again I'm saying

42:50
that's I'll say 2/3 you follow me that just seemed that it's like and and a lot

42:56
of times some of those individuals do connect you know like for you on the

43:03
porch you know they connect alcohol with marijuana in other words it's something they like to do together MH you know for

43:11
its effect you know and I think you know that makes it you know because we we've

43:17
always heard or you know we've routinely heard of you know Gateway you know I think so many people get concerned you

43:24
know is it a gateway drug is it not a gateway drug I don't think you you can argue the fact that it can be a Gateway

43:30
mhm you follow me oh yeah AB that's that's just like alcohol can be just

43:35
like smoking uh anything so to to say that it's not a defin I say even more so

43:42
because of its illegal nature sure does that makes yep I feel like that enhances

43:47
the the Gateway of it um anyway yeah but but I think part of that Gateway is also

43:53
I'm also going to seek you know effects to solve something yes cuz I'm

44:00
looking for that same effect that I once had that has become diminished as you're

44:07
sharing over time that's that's my primary concern you know with people and

44:13
you know and I know individuals who have you know who have quit and you know they

44:18
just they just one individual you know loves Colorado for the skiing but it's like

44:26
man I have to really be careful about going back there because it is such a

44:32
you know it's so prevalent that it's it's almost impossible for me to go to

44:37
Colorado for the things that I enjoy skiing hiking in the mountains but yet I

44:43
find myself using when I go back there and you know and it's like I don't want to use anymore because I see how it has

44:51
affected that that desire for mellowness you know that I saw you know it just

44:58
it became the thing that I had to have and it's like I I couldn't in their

45:05
Viewpoint you know I couldn't maintain my focus and there again you know people

45:11
will use drugs to you know combat ADHD you know that kind of thing you know one

45:17
of those articles I believe talked about um the guy that wanted to take up pipe smoking cuz he recognized nicotine

45:24
helped him focus when he did uh tobacco M you know and it's like okay you know

45:31
are there it was kind of to the point are there other ways to accomplish this

45:36
that we know aren't as cancer producing you know in that in that process of you

45:43
know smokeless tobacco or pipe tobacco or you know the adverse effects we I

45:48
think we can become single-minded mhm you know or you know what do you call

45:54
that when you train track you know it's like uh yeah one track myopic if you will you know I mean you know yeah one

45:59
track mind that's what I'm looking for you know is that aspect you know there's

46:05
one advantage to this and that is greater than all the other you know

46:10
adverse effects or disadvantages of it yeah you follow me and I think that's where we have to look at these things

46:17
from my perspective is how I see it we have to look at the entirety we have to look at the whole that's good yeah to be

46:24
able to say okay is this beneficial you know civil is this beneficial

46:31
individually you know as as we're promoting you know or as we're allowing

46:36
this legislation if you will to occur mhm that's my little soap box I'll step

46:43
back down yeah so um I'll just be candid and say ahead I think my biggest reason

46:51
to avoid it you know like besides cuz again I'm I'm really just not a fan of

46:57
avoid it because people say it's bad or you know you like like I

47:04
want yeah I want I want to hear what the spirit's saying about it like you know and I think uh a lot of the arguments

47:10
you're making uh are very much aligned with that kind of thing in terms of um

47:17
you know can it enslave you and is there a risk of that and what are the benefits versus the you know the the negatives um

47:26
is it something that you really need right like is is there a reason to to to

47:31
do that that kind of thing um but for me I think the biggest concern would be just that with my struggle with

47:38
depression the concern would be that helps that and I need that yeah right

47:43
and that's that's the thing that for me is the most uh you know the the biggest

47:49
thing that makes me it needs to be avoided you know is what is the risk of

47:54
that of it like wow when when I when I do that it kind of just solves all of

48:00
that yes and it's like well that sounds whenever whenever that

48:06
sentence is said you're so close to addiction right like I think that's just that line isn't far away right yes right

48:14
and so even with smoking a cigar like um I try to avoid doing it when I feel

48:21
bummed out as a way you know like for me it's it's a celebratory thing y it's an

48:27
enjoyment on the porch it's a opportunity to like kick back kind of thing if it if I feel like maybe that

48:34
would make me feel better I just don't no I hear you that's good self awareness

48:39
well and because I think for me I've been part of celebrate recovery for so long you just hear those stories and

48:46
that's like one of the most common denominators is like that solved my problem and made that feeling go away

48:53
yeah I don't want these things to be uh that um but I again that would be my biggest

48:59
fear is that that it would it would trigger that it would cause that it would because I

49:06
think but at the same time if there's some sort of medicinal uh prescription

49:11
for that for people who are struggling with depression and it is medically provided in in uh dosages that are

49:19
approved by the doctor and you know whatever I'm not saying that's bad either I got in the same sense that I

49:25
don't think taking the medication they give you to help with depression is bad right right and if you read the um like

49:32
side or like side effects of marijuana that's like can can cause depression can cure depression right like both things a

49:39
lot of prescription drugs for depression say exactly the same thing sure right no

49:45
I yeah no I agree I agree I mean like like your example with coffee you know

49:51
it's like coffee caffeine doesn't have the same effect you know

49:57
that it does I mean Ridin you know was an ADHD you know and it's like caffeine

50:04
you know that was an early medication caffeine was actually used in the same

50:10
way to treat ADHD early on because some kids actually mellowed with caffeine you

50:18
know that kind of thing to where you know that's that's and I even in one of

50:23
the classes that we have now you know we're talking about um the the the how we love class you know we talk about

50:30
this attachment theory if you will and you know and I had one you know uh she's

50:35
actually I believe a uh nurse practitioner a PA you know and she was saying you know well how do you how do

50:41
you fix this attachment Dynamic you know and it's like you know that's a he said

50:47
and her view her next words were because I know you can't do it with a pill you

50:54
know because my industry has tried MH you know and it's like we try and yes

51:01
medication Works in some cases for some things but there are some things that

51:07
you know medication doesn't necessarily cure and you know and let alone what it

51:14
how it Alters the individual you know to Beyond and here again I'm not anti-

51:20
medication don't get me but we have to be able to recognize that we can't say

51:26
this is a one size fits all perspective a cure all like you're saying you know

51:32
to be able to make it go away and even under doctor supervision with uh

51:38
prescriptions um you know they they call it practicing medicine right and so what what the way it works is we're going to

51:44
try this we're going to try this at this dosage for a period of time and we're going to monitor it yep um and so

51:50
there's built-in accountability there's built in um moderation right yep uh and

51:56
then in some cases they'll up the dosage they'll lower the dosage they'll change to a different prescription depending

52:02
how it's impacting you yeah so like um and you know the good doctors are doing

52:07
that right and the bad bad doctors who don't have time saying well just up at up it a little bit should be fine you

52:14
know and like um but yeah I think the there's a a key component there is

52:20
moderation and accountability sure right and I think that's uh a key component to

52:26
living a a Christian Life sure it's moderation accountability well self-control comes

52:32
through moderation and accountability I feel like yeah self-control is a fruit

52:37
of the spirit and I think but I think sometimes we think of it as something that's uh

52:44
uh a single person effort like self-control is something I have to do

52:49
myself to get better at controlling myself and I don't see it my job to do that right as as someone who's been

52:56
involved in a recovery Ministry for years and years and years and years I recognize self-control comes through a

53:01
group effort it comes through moderation and accountability you know I feel like those things are what provide the tool

53:08
set to increase my self-control sure um and I think the fruit of the spirit Holy

53:14
Spirit offers that too through other people through relationship I think we're saying but I'm glad you're

53:19
clarifying yes yeah yeah yeah so yeah that's it's in you know yeah I appreciate you bringing up

53:27
the points as far as that you know it's not about us being able to do it and at

53:33
times I think you know like your example with the with the cigar you know it can

53:39
tend to lead towards isolation and Independence you know that from a

53:47
recreational standpoint I can just go and do this and it cures me mhm and I

53:53
think that is a dangerous place to be yeah you know in that in that process

54:00
yeah I was also thinking about when you were talking about the medication side of things um you know and and even

54:06
caffeine for kids with ADHD or whatever um there's a reason medicine exists

54:12
right like we know that I mean we know that um and the idea is um there's an

54:18
outsized effect on your body with this particular issue and if we can limit that outsized effect to kind of be more

54:25
normalized I think that's kind of an overgeneralized idea of what the what medicine is attempting to do is minimize

54:31
the outside effects of these negative things on your body through medication so that you can go about life normally

54:39
sure right so it's not meant to dull your sense of um sadness for instance

54:45
when it comes to depression medication to where you can't feel sadness if it is doing that too much you you've gone

54:52
beyond what the intention of good medicine is supposed to do it's a supposed to get you back to a normalized

54:58
human experience as much as yep possible right yep most medications from a

55:04
depressive standpoint tend to minimize your high and low end okay you follow me

55:09
it it does create that to where it's the that's the difficult part for most

55:14
people on medication is yes it keeps them from going too low but it will also

55:21
moderate the high end as well yeah it kind of takes out those Peaks and valleys

55:29
and why people medication because you know yeah

55:36
I I'm missing the the the higher end the joy the excitement at times when I'm

55:44
keeping that low end at Bay but you know for people who you know may suffer from

55:49
legitimate bipolar you know that's you know that's what you're looking you're looking to take away that manic where

55:56
you know I'm just up for three days straight you know wallpaper in the bathroom you know that kind of thing or

56:03
you know versus the bottom where it's like I'm in bed three days straight and you can see why uh the worse the

56:11
extremes are in terms of highs and lows so you get to the bipolar uh that's a Continuum right of like whoa really high

56:18
really low you can see the more high you're able to get the more uh difficult

56:23
it is to accept that medication to prevent that because sure essentially

56:29
you are superhuman yes for those three days or whatever you are capable of

56:36
things Beyond any normal human for that small amount of time but then the dip

56:42
comes and you are now sub yes human right like your your abilities are below

56:48
way below the normal human experience yep and so for most people that's a worthwhile trade feels that way no I

56:55
hear you % of their time in their lowest lows it doesn't of course that's when they go to the doctor that's when they

57:02
want it solved you know um that's a whole another thing uh sure that that

57:08
whole topic but um but back to the medication thing and your point about it does limit the highs and lows I guess uh

57:15
I just want to clarify what what I what I was saying which is I I think the goal of medicine is just to limit the outside

57:22
negative effects sure but we're dealing with subst is that God created not us as

57:28
humans and so therefore you know like some of these medications are going to impact the highs maybe that wouldn't be

57:33
the intention of the drug but it's just part of the package deal right like sorry this is this is going to have that

57:40
effect yep um and I think again I think that's where the accountability of doctors in saying like let's work with

57:47
this let's figure out the dosage that uh maybe it doesn't stop the the lows as

57:52
much as we'd really like but but you're also still able to experience into your life and so maybe there's there's a

57:58
level of dosage that keeps you from dying sure right and I think a lot of medication is like how much dosage can

58:04
we give you to keep you from dying you know like heart heart blood pressure medicine right y like just enough to

58:11
keep you from dying if you give you too much then it can cause other negative side effects or whatever sure um that's

58:18
a lot of and well and I think there is another part of it from my perspective too

58:23
I as as we're think as I tend to think about the recreational usage okay um for

58:32
me personally those who struggle with some kind of pain are the ones that I tend to

58:39
think about most okay yeah you follow me that there's you know and granted you think about most empathetically you mean

58:46
is that what yeah yeah empathetically and you know and I and I realize there are those um you know and from who are

58:55
dealing with cancer you follow me from those you know there there's some kind of pain there's some

59:00
kind of you know very similar you know when I think of cancer very similar to someone who might get you know in the

59:07
later you know stages of cancer who might you know get morphine yeah you

59:12
follow me that kind of thing I you know that's that's where I have empathy yeah

59:19
you know for a person's individual and yet there is that part of me on the other end of that Spectrum okay

59:26
that basically says okay but have you tried anything else have you actually

59:33
sought out a PT you know a physical therapist to be able to exercise those muscles stretch that part of your body

59:40
you know because a lot of it comes to lower back you know when I when I'm from

59:46
my perspective what I'm dealing with people you know it's my knees hurt my lower back hurts you know these things

59:52
that have worn I've worn my body out maybe in some ways you follow me so and

59:59
I think I think from my perspective as I talk with other people you know I I

1:00:07
think some of it is part of the aging process which I think we have an issue with culturally you know yeah to be able

1:00:15
to recognize and then some of it I think comes back to that aspect of okay are

1:00:20
there Alternatives or has this become my Silver Bullet if you will yeah coping

1:00:28
mechanism my coping mechanism that basically is going to fix it for me and

1:00:33
yet there's I mean we all know people who you know may have even been scheduled for back surgery they go see

1:00:40
you know a chiropractor that offers us you know a stretch or a you know and

1:00:46
they don't necessarily have to have the surgery anymore you know what I'm saying because they know they've been able to

1:00:51
lengthen the spine in such a way that created more space between the vertebra you know that we're pinching nerves

1:00:58
before you know that's that's how I'm looking at a lot of the the industry if

1:01:03
you will from a from a promotional standpoint mhm and I think you know we

1:01:09
have to be able to create healthy alternatives as well yes they may not be

1:01:17
as you know fancy for lack of a better word you know what I'm saying as as

1:01:23
attractive if I you know I have to I have to work hard you know to do the

1:01:29
stretches every day you know I can't just necessarily sit down on my couch

1:01:34
and and use marijuana you know which is far easier yeah you know that that kind

1:01:40
and that's not a judgmental statement on my part I don't want to you know that I'm saying the person that chooses that

1:01:46
option you know is somehow lesser I'm not but you know I want to be able to

1:01:52
recognize and and granted like you're saying I am I am not anti- medication at all

1:02:00
you know but I am to a point where I would say yes medication with therapy is

1:02:06
a better option yeah because if I can learn some skills if I can you know get

1:02:12
some abilities that you know with journaling or something else to help me process these things and I think you

1:02:18
know a lot of the way a lot of another complete topic but I think a lot of the

1:02:24
health issues we have have to deal with the way we you know process emotion yeah

1:02:31
you know I mean there's definitely connections there you know that and and

1:02:36
here again I'm I'm not going down that Rabbit Trail I'm pulling back we got lots of them this is so yeah that's

1:02:43
that's kind of you know I want to at the end of the day like you shared I want to

1:02:51
recognize I have empathy for people who desire to use from a pain

1:02:56
circumstance you know they are going through something and helps minimize and that's where I'm saying okay yeah I

1:03:04
understand that being prescribed and you know those kind of things the benefits thereof and yet you know that is more

1:03:12
towards the medicinal a little further away from the recreational and that's

1:03:17
where my concerns become is when we when we self-medicate that's a that's a dangerous thing to do in any shape or

1:03:24
form from my perspec I agree I think uh

1:03:32
it's even the idea to to get therapy and to go to physical therapy to do these

1:03:39
things um where there's a medical professional involved is a privileged

1:03:45
expectation um I hear you not everyone is going to have access to those things

1:03:51
um so and I I think we're in the same place of just empathy and I think

1:03:56
I think that's a big part of what I would desire out of this episode too is just that as you go about your life

1:04:03
recognize that this is a very real thing that people around you are dealing with whether they're using or they have a

1:04:10
Brother's using and they you know whatever sure and have Grace for people and like

1:04:16
um empathy you know in the sense that uh someone is self-medicating and you you

1:04:23
might be tempted to say yeah self-medication is is a Bad Thing therefore I judge you you know sure yeah

1:04:29
but maybe they need medication they need to be medicated they're doing it

1:04:34
themselves they shouldn't be MH but they need help sure how can you help them you

1:04:40
know versus standing on the pedestal and saying you're bad or whatever yeah um

1:04:46
and in some cases it's just purely Rec recreational or whatever it's just it is what it is and at the same time is

1:04:52
Judgment helping that situation no sure no I don't think it is I think you know

1:04:57
being able to have conversations that that say hey tell me more about that like why do you do that like what's the

1:05:02
what's the story there do you have any concerns about the legal implications like if you were to get caught like have

1:05:08
you thought through that you know being a to have those conversations in a nonjudge judgmental way is going to be

1:05:14
valuable and as it becomes more legalized and that kind of thing like we need to be able as Believers to help

1:05:21
disciple each other and hold each other each other accountable um in a way that's not like black and white like oh

1:05:29
now I just realized my friend smokes marijuana I that's a paradigm I can't

1:05:35
grock and I don't know if we can be friends and you just start avoiding them because you don't it's like that's not

1:05:40
who I thought you were and you know you I don't think I like you anymore no I

1:05:46
hear you U I think it's just really important that we start thinking about these things in a way that says you know what would Jesus do in this circumstance

1:05:53
you know what I mean and I can't imagine walk you know I think he would address the heart issues like he always did you

1:06:00
know and anyway and I and I think and I I want you to know I mean as far as I'm

1:06:05
concerned I appreciate what you're sharing you know about my perspective being um would you call it not

1:06:12
hierarchical but when uh not elitist what's the word um privileged privileged

1:06:17
privileged you know I respect what you're sharing you know not everyone has access to a PT to be able to talk to or

1:06:24
you know a a privilege I I appreciate that that point and I think in some ways

1:06:31
I respect the challenge there of it because I can recognize that yeah by

1:06:36
God's grace I do have a lot of people that I personally can draw from you know

1:06:41
to be able to Garner some advice some and I and I from my perspective on the

1:06:48
other side of that I also recognize that part of that is the other of not living

1:06:56
in isolation yeah you follow me because I think so often our tendency is to head

1:07:02
towards that isolation and from my perspective too I don't I don't think you know as I don't

1:07:11
think the body if you will Christ designed for the body is an elitist or

1:07:17
you know um privileged perspective you know to where I believe you know when we

1:07:23
engage in the body I believe God has the ability to bring other people around me

1:07:30
who can advise me in ways that doesn't necessarily cost me a lot you know it

1:07:36
may cost me something but you know it's not like your average you know doctor is

1:07:42
going to say well you have to go you know some of the doctors some of the pts I know are are you know are the most

1:07:48
approachable people you know to be able to say hey I'm dealing with this can you help me you know and I think you know

1:07:56
those people are available let's put it that way it's going to take some effort it's going to take some work you know

1:08:02
but I think there are those people who are out there and and that's just part of the body as I see it

1:08:09
MH yeah like you said it just it does take some work to Fig to find support

1:08:15
yes cuz that's really what we're talking about is support you know and um there are places that offer support there's so

1:08:21
many drug and addiction centers there in you know we think of I think it's easy

1:08:27
to think of those places as like for people who are broken not people like me and you know celebrate Rec covery

1:08:33
whatever uh but yeah they're they're available for those who aren't so privileged that you can just go to the

1:08:39
doctor and your health insurance covers it all and it's just part of your routine existence is you know yeah um

1:08:45
there are options and I think you know going back I'm not trying to oversimplify the whole um doctor role

1:08:53
but you know moderation and account ility is available through other means besides a doctor you know going to a

1:09:00
doctor's office yep um to agree with what you're saying yeah yeah

1:09:06
yeah so thanks for sharing Justin yeah thank you Mark yeah it's been a fun

1:09:11
little podcast that's right yeah that's very much how we see it very much so yes

1:09:17
by all means all the disclaimers we are not uh Health advisers we're not legal advisors we are not I said I think I

1:09:24
might know the Le about marijuana of anyone you know so but thanks for having

1:09:30
the conversation yeah this is how I see [Music]

1:09:36
it hey thank you for listening to our podcast if you like how I see it please

1:09:43
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1:09:50
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1:09:56
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1:10:07
tell your friends about this show and we'll see you on the next one

1:10:13
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