Mark:

We we uh maybe we should just record uh a segment after this that says when you listen to this podcast, please go to and take this, but either way, yeah, you get the idea.

Justin:

Yeah.

Mark:

It’s been fun, Justin. I just said it, but who listens to a podcast from the back?

Justin:

Oh, you mean stick it at the f front.

Mark:

Yeah.

Justin:

All right.

Mark:

I’m not saying we have to, but it’s it will

Justin:

say it right now and I’ll I’ll put it at the front.

Mark:

Podcast listeners, please take a moment to go to the

Justin:

Mike Foster ‘s

Mark:

Seven Primal Questions Assessment

Justin:

Assessment.

Mark:

And then listen to the rest of the podcast.

Justin:

You can go to primalquestion. com Uh yeah, that’s probably the best place to go.

Mark:

Yeah.

Justin:

Nice job. I’m I’m gonna put that at the front and I’m also gonna leave it at the end so everyone can ‘t.

Mark:

That’s right. That’s fair enough.

Justin:

That’s right. But at the vacating they’ll be like, wow, they were very Forward thing.

Mark:

Welcome to How I See It with me, Mark Pratt and Justin Sternberg. This is a podcast that works to counter cultural Polarization through thoughtful conversations.

Live.

Justin:

Red red lights on.

Mark:

Red lights on.

Justin:

Yep.

Mark:

Segways segues to come. Although I’m a little reluctant on segues. I’d I bought last one. But like

Justin:

That’s a good segue into segues though.

Mark:

You go. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. Good morning, Justin.

Justin:

Good morning, Mark. How are you?

Mark:

I am very well.

Justin:

It’s Very cold this morning.

Mark:

It is cool this morning.

Justin:

Yeah.

Mark:

Yeah.

Justin:

Did your truck start okay?

Mark:

Oh yeah, started up just fine.

Justin:

Old faithful.

Mark:

Old faithful just you know.

Justin:

Did you get the frost out the window?

Mark:

It it really wasn’t frosty. Yeah. I I was surprised. It was just so clear, I think. You know, it just got cold and clear and it

Justin:

bode well for the the old plants. In the sense that frost is the killer, right? Not necessarily the cold. Is that correct?

Mark:

Yeah.

Justin:

I suppose at some point.

Mark:

I suppose, yeah. I mean, like you say, that frost expands the cells in the in the leaves. So I imagine there’s a point where cold just does the same thing without the frost. But either way. Yeah. When it’s cold, it’s cold.

Justin:

Yes. And it’s cold. Uh so we’re gonna talk about some questions. There ‘s a lot of things.

Mark:

There’s your segue. There’s my segue. Well, I was thinking about that in the process, because we were talking a little bit about, you know, things that kind of uh Just you know, push you the wrong way.

Justin:

Make you scramble.

Mark:

Make you scramble. Yeah, you’re not exactly sure, but all of a sudden it’s like here, you know Like for some people it might be negotiating or haggling over a car or, you know, over a a number. For other people it would be a look that they might receive from someone. You know, and

Justin:

or the idea someone’s coming to your house.

Mark:

Sure.

Justin:

Or uh

Mark:

Yeah. The aspect of is what I do matter.

Justin:

Mm-hmm.

Mark:

You know, is do people, you know So under

Justin:

or uncertainty at work, you know, like so that can cause people to scramble when they’re not quite sure what the future holds or

Mark:

Sure.

Justin:

Yeah, there’s all kinds of scramblers.

Mark:

Yeah.

Justin:

Right?

Mark:

Yep. There’s all kinds of scramblers, and the reality of it is there’s nothing new under the sun.

Justin:

That’s true.

Mark:

You know, so w today, as part of our uh our podcast this morning, we have uh this uh

Justin:

We have a guest on.

Mark:

Yeah. Well, indirectly.

Justin:

Mike Foster.

Mark:

Mike Foster. Yes.

Justin:

I mean he doesn’t know he’s

Mark:

exactly He’s been on Fox News. He’s been on Good Morning America. He won’t be concerned about how

Justin:

I see it.

Mark:

Exactly.

Justin:

It’s gonna go right on the homepage logos, you know. They got all featured on how I see it.

Mark:

But Mike Foster came up with seven primal questions and this is a assessment that you know we can put in our podcast and we’ll have a link at the end and It was just an interesting discuss it was actually information that Lizzie shared with us over the weekend while she was home. So I just thought it was kind of a a neat little opportunity because I think, you know, so often in uh in this process and like I say we’ve sh shared, you know, love styles and those kind of things. But I think, you know through this process of development, you know, we have and I and I see it so much with I just uh it was reminding me I was working with a couple last night even. And, you know, and the uh the wife basically said to me, she said, he grew up exactly the same way I did. You know, his parents were separated, you know, he lived, you know, alone and and it’s like in my own mind I could hear what she was saying and understood where she was coming from on a you know, a bigger a ma you know, a macro level, but yet that m that has a completely different effect on us as individuals. you know, she’s she’s female, he’s male, you know, her mom was a different than his mom, you know, to where they’re just completely different people. who grew up in a similar circumstance.

Justin:

I feel like I’ve learned that so significantly at CR uh uh going through step study groups with multiple times over the years and even open chair groups is an opportunity to hear other people talk about their struggles.

Mark:

Sure.

Justin:

And as a result of talking about their struggles, there’s also a lot of talking about contextual things like well I grew up this way and so sometimes I really have a hard time with X, right?

Mark:

Yep.

Justin:

And a lot of times it’s like There’s so many times I’ve heard that kind of thing where like, wait, they had what I had and but they struggle with that and I don’t. That’s weird. Or vice versa. they had everything I wanted and everything I’m feel like that holds me back and I didn’t have that I didn’t have they kind of described this ideal scenario where they had that and then they ended up having these problems and So I’ve I’ve had a lot of kind of eye opening opportunities to hear it’s so it’s like you said.

Mark:

Yeah.

Justin:

The the macro vision, y you might look similar, but we’re all so distinct.

Mark:

Exactly.

Justin:

The butterfly effect really has an impact when it comes to every individual, if if you know what I mean by that butterfly effect

Mark:

Sure.

Justin:

Yeah.

Mark:

One one significant I mean

Justin:

or one small change between your life and mine and everything else being equal, we could be completely opposite ends of the spectrum, right? Like

Mark:

So yeah, I just thought that was interesting as as, you know, we were going through this and I was able to take this assessment and now of course will be in the link, but I was just thinking about it as far as, you know How we develop and what these things mean to us. Because that’s a and for me, kind of that underlying part, you know, is okay, what do we do? you know, in a when you use the word scramble. Yeah.

Justin:

I stole his word.

Mark:

Yeah, that’s Mike’s word.

Justin:

Thanks, Mike.

Mark:

But in that process, it’s the things that, you know, I tend to feel co tend Tend to make me scramble.

Justin:

Yeah.

Mark:

Those those mo those times when something doesn’t seem sufficient something isn’t right. And then I find myself from my perspective reacting in some ways versus responding. And I think, you know, little things like this, you know, little assessments that you know, just kind of help us create a little more self-awareness, you know, and also the aspect because I think as we become more self-aware, we also gain others’ awareness. It’s like Oh, your style, your language, you are different than I am. So therefore, it’s not about me knowing what you’re doing, I actually have to ask the questions.

Justin:

Yeah.

Mark:

What is it about that? What happened then? How did you feel?

Justin:

Yeah.

Mark:

You know, because I guarantee what what well you I can see the gears turning there.

Justin:

Well okay, so you just made me think about the fact that so many of these quiz makers sure and assessment makers.

Mark:

Sure.

Justin:

I just it just my mind was like, wait a second. I just thought of something They see the value of the whole system. They they created it, right? So there is so much value in what you just said. Uh not only do I know what I am. I also understand the so his is seven questions, right? So I understand my primal question, but I also understand the other six. So I can look across the table and think, oh, question five, question two. And it gives me that empathy and the ability to go, yes, different than me. And grew up in the same situation, but somehow they’re two and I’m still a seven or whatever. And that’s an incredible thing.

Mark:

Sure.

Justin:

I just realized like a lot of these things, they don’t give you that out of the box. They give you you.

Mark:

Sure.

Justin:

Right? Like, because I ‘m not sure. Yes, yes, exactly. No, I’m not I’m not criticizing. Um and the reason why uh that’s so eureka for me is because Um at our work we did the in we do the Enneagram. Basically everyone who comes on does the Enneagram and kinda helps with management, that kind of thing. But when we first decided to do this, we brought in this Enneagram like coach.

Mark:

Guru.

Justin:

Guru. Yes, exactly. And joke about it all what all you want, but it was amazing to hear her talk about every type and kind of how people can interact and all that. And it gave me a tool set that I wouldn’t have had otherwise just to know well I’m this Yeah. I don’t know what your problem is. Well you’re you’re other. You’re a that number and I’m this number so you’re an other. So clearly you’re not quite Right, but that’s okay, we’ll figure it out. That’s what I heard when I heard my assessment. No, I think that’s a good point though, that uh coming from a therapeutic perspective, which you do and are, you look at this and you go, Wow, this is a good thing to help others understand others and themselves. I just don’t know how often that’s happening. when the whole system is bent towards learn more about you.

Mark:

No, I hear you.

Justin:

Just I don’t know.

Mark:

Yeah, and I and I think that’s that’s what under From my perspective, that’s what’s underlying and that’s a big part of how we love, you know, that aspect of self and others awareness. That’s this like a second stage of three stages.

Justin:

Okay.

Mark:

And then and then of course the well the third stage is rupture and repair. Because in reality, we all enter into conflict. Your number isn’t the same as my number. So I’m going to look at something, I’m going to experience something, and I’m going to have a completely different viewpoint, perspective of it.

Justin:

Yeah.

Mark:

And so when I do that, I’m gonna my you know, my brain is gonna kinda click click click click click, you know, what do you spreadsheet this thing? And there’s your answer. Spit it out at the end. This is how I need to respond. And it’s like, no, somebody else’s computer went through, brain went through, and their spreadsheet came out. This is the response. Right. Well, both responses make perfect sense based on that number. Yes.

Justin:

Exactly. You know what’s crazy about that too is you can take two people of the same number and put in the same input and still have different output and the reason is all the variables that you know, go into that spreadsheet are different. Yeah. Different parents grew up in a different state. Maybe you’re a different level in the Uh

Mark:

socioeconomics.

Justin:

Yeah, or like you’re the youngest child, the oldest child. Like just a bajillion variables that we kind of just don’t even consider when we look at each other. You know, so I could be, you know, question seven, you could be question seven and you can give us the same question and we come up with vastly different answers because there’s so many variables we’re not even considering, you know.

Mark:

No doubt. Yeah. So

Justin:

you know, cause we always talk about well they’re different there and that’s why. Well

Mark:

sure.

Justin:

I’m pretty sure if you had married a clone, you’d still fight with them. Right?

Mark:

Oh no doubt.

Justin:

Yeah.

Mark:

Yeah, no doubt.

Justin:

Yeah. So even if we’re clones, what I do causes you to do something different or think differently or be irritated or whatever. Like

Mark:

Yeah.

Justin:

Um anyway.

Mark:

And it and I th to to kind of you know further your example, I think it you know, so often I re in in sibling relationships, yeah, you know, it’s like, well, we grew up in the same home.

Justin:

Yeah.

Mark:

How can we be so different? It’s like, no, you didn’t grow up in the same home. You know, you didn’t you grew up in the same house, but that home dramatically changed when, you know, this seven pound to eight ounce child came in. That home, I mean, you know, that home changed. That family system changed. when this other individual came along. So it’s you know

Justin:

the home I grew up in had you in it. Yeah, exactly.

Mark:

Exactly.

Justin:

And vice versa. Yeah.

Mark:

Yes.

Justin:

Yeah.

Mark:

based on that birth order type stuff. So it automatically changes. But so yeah, that’s where and then, you know, that third level, rupture and repair, we’re gonna come into conflict. But that ability to say, okay, how do we resolve this? Yeah, how do we because and I think so often that’s what happens is we don’t necessarily get to a point where we can you know, hear the other person like we’d like to or were not heard in such a way that says, okay, I’ve never experienced the ability to have repair. I’ve I’ve only grown up in this rupture to where once I can understand what a repair looks like, then I’m better able to recognize, okay This is a cycle and a pattern that happens all the time.

Justin:

Well, go ahead. And like you said, once I experience a repair, now I go, oh. This can be repaired.

Mark:

Exactly. Right. Yes.

Justin:

Yeah.

Mark:

Because I’m able to kind of relax into, you know, that conflict. And I don’t have to necessarily say, oh my goodness, conflict is terrible.

Justin:

Yeah.

Mark:

Because there’s no way to to resolve it.

Justin:

And don’t y yeah, yeah, I was gonna say, don’t you think a conflict is so terrible because it’s represents something irreparable.

Mark:

Yes. Right?

Justin:

Like that’s most often the thing that causes the the schism. At least I can say from my experience the way I feel when there’s conflict. It’s like, Well, this is always gonna be this way and you know. Yeah. Yeah, that that’s that’s where Yeah. I’ll I’ll I’ll say recently I’m Yeah, I’ve worked on that. I I’ve been able yeah, I’ve had those feelings come in where it’s like this is never gonna change or whatever.

Mark:

Oh, sure.

Justin:

And said, Yeah. And then just it just like tried to go, just chill out. Don’t listen to that.

Mark:

Okay.

Justin:

You know what I mean? Yeah. And that that man, it really changed how I dealt with the situation. You know, how I responded. And doesn’t mean it was perfect or but it definitely

Mark:

That’s good self awareness.

Justin:

Yeah, well I’ll just say that it’s I don’t always have that self-awareness, but it was really refreshing to be able to see those thoughts coming in and go, Nope, you stay over there.

Mark:

Sure.

Justin:

Uh I’ll say like that’s one thing with depression.

Mark:

Uh-huh. That’s exactly where I was thinking.

Justin:

Yeah, is I don’t get to choose I can I can see them coming and I can’t block them. It’s like They they like go through. They like go through my hands, it feels like, if that makes sense.

Mark:

Yes.

Justin:

I see ’em coming. I s it’s like I can’t

Mark:

But you just you just demonstrated that you can choose some.

Justin:

Yes.

Mark:

Yes. I guess that’s kind of.

Justin:

Yeah.

Mark:

But yet you’re learning how to focus on certain ones and tending to ignore the other ones. So therefore you can Choose

Justin:

about that one.

Mark:

You’re growing in your ability to block some of them.

Justin:

Yeah.

Mark:

Yeah.

Justin:

Yeah. And that wasn’t a fluke.

Mark:

Well, no, but you’re but that’s the reality. You’re building some success with that.

Justin:

Yeah.

Mark:

And therefore that promotes your desire to do that again.

Justin:

Yeah.

Mark:

Are you going to do it perfectly every time? Likely not.

Justin:

But even when I fail to You still have that success to look back on and say, Well I didn’t do it right this time, but I know it works. So I’m gonna do you know

Mark:

You’re like you’re a good football fan at that point. There’s always next season.

Justin:

That’s right. That’s right.

Mark:

But yeah.

Justin:

Pittsburgh Steelers.

Mark:

Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, that’s what it comes down because I talked with a you know Pittsburgh Steelers bay unit.

Justin:

Because you’re up from that area, so

Mark:

He was funny. It’s like, well, we did better than I thought we’d do. You know, it’s like that’s the other side of the coin, you know?

Justin:

That’s what we do though. Well, we didn’t suck like we usually do, but yeah. Yeah.

Mark:

But yeah. So that being said. If we uh I just kind of wanted to uh kind of go through that in such a way and and we’ll kinda label them out a little bit. We invite people to kinda just if you have a moment, take the assessment. Like I say, there’s no um I was able to get mine even without putting in um um. Yeah, that’s pretty rare. Yeah,

Justin:

you could say skip the email. That was Yeah. Well here’s the thing. I was like I like this enough I would g give you my email but also had a required field for phone. I’m like

Mark:

Oh, okay.

Justin:

I’m out. I’ll st I’ll do the skip. So if you’re listening to Mr. Foster, maybe don’t make all of it required because some people might be willing to give their phone, not their email, whatever. That’s yeah. Anyway.

Mark:

That’s how we see it, Mr. Foster. But yeah, so there’s no subscription, there’s no and like you say, you’re given all the information and that may change in the next The you know, depending on how many listeners we send, you know, there that might that might change.

Justin:

No, um I was gonna say two right before we dive into them. Um This just like every other assessment is a distilling, right? Of a kind of so I like what you were saying. You said nothing’s new under the sun, right? So you w what’s cool about that is after eons of us being the same kind of ways As humanity, we’re able to look at it and review it and go and distill to some some key components of what makes us tick. So I like I really like this, but As with everything, nothing can fully encompass an inv individual. And I thought it was funny when you sent me this because I know you’ve pushed back on personality tests before because it’s like Right? We’ve discussed that where you don’t like the idea that it could sum you up in one

Mark:

I dislike taking tests like this, but I give him credit because he gave me the little sliding scale

Justin:

You follow me?

Mark:

And it’s only yes or no. Ike it would probably still equate it to yes and no, you know, in the in the in the the the drop down But I was able to just slide it a little bit to, you know, partially agree to it.

Justin:

That’s a good point. If you’re one of those that doesn’t like to be pegged, then just so you know, you can slide that slider anywhere between the continuum. It’s a continuum basically, right?

Mark:

Yeah, and it’ll and it gave me the, you know, perception. that I was able to put myself on that continuum where I desire to be.

Justin:

That’s a good point. That’s a good point. But yeah. So anyway, standard disclaimer. It is a distilling. So like if you know it maybe not be A thousand percent perfect and peggy in every sense. But

Mark:

and and recognizing pulling back, you know, we uh our acceptance, our identity, our security, and all that purpose which this stuff deals with ultimately I believe comes from God, you know, unconditional acceptance. Yeah. You know, but but there again, growing in self awareness helps me, you know, interact with other people in a way that I believe is helpful. But Yeah. You know.

Justin:

Well and bringing it back to God too like all of these primal questions are all only answered through God properly. Right. So I mean you can find answers for all of these in you know other places, but ultimately they’re all gonna b end up empty or, you know.

Mark:

And I think what happens is, you know, we all grow up with imperfect parents, not blaming anyone. But you know, some of these questions just don’t get answered sufficiently.

Justin:

Yeah.

Mark:

You know, in our in our, you know, childhood background, you know, imperfect people. you know, raising imperfect kids, you know, that kind of thing. And, you know, so

Justin:

it creates a hunger or a

Mark:

yes.

Justin:

A craving. Yes. Maybe the better way to do it. Exactly. Yeah.

Mark:

So there is that that need. And, you know, even as we were talking about it with Lizzie, that, you know, she was describing it far better than I probably will, you know, in this just this moment. But You know, it was to the point of it’s like, okay, yeah, we’re talking about attachment. We’re talking about needs going unmet and how that need translates into this primal question. Or, you know, so yeah, that’s where I’m at. So

Justin:

cool.

Mark:

Well, um for the sake of the seven questions, I think what we’ll do is we’ll uh kind of go through and and label out the seven questions and come back.

Justin:

Sounds good.

Mark:

And then actually kinda go piece by piece and we’ll talk about ’em accordingly. How’s that sound?

Justin:

That sounds great. All right. So we’ll have Mike weigh in a little bit too

Mark:

Yeah, yeah. I’ll let you weigh in for Mike. But long story short, question one is, am I safe? Question two is, am I secure? Question three, am I loved? Question four, am I wanted? Question 5, am I successful? Question 6, am I good enough? And question 7, do I have a purpose?

Justin:

Nice. Now everyone pause the podcast and guess which one you think Mark and I are.

Mark:

Oh.

Justin:

All right, you back? Did you get it right?

Mark:

You uh you uh you uh I I thought this was interesting when we both took the assessment. We actually agreed

Justin:

on the same primal question.

Mark:

On the same primal question, and it kinda it kinda I think as people listen, you know, you could hear some of that in our discussions, you know, especially when we think about, you know, goals and, you know, legacy, yeah, those c those kind of things, you know, as we talk about that, we we were both question seven.

Justin:

Yeah.

Mark:

Do I have purpose?

Justin:

Yeah.

Mark:

And so like you say, it was just kind of interesting. And so I I wasn’t surprised by that. And yeah, and even as, you know, Lizzie was, you know, discussing the questions, it’s like it w it was ’cause question seven, of course, is the last one. So in that process it’s like, uh this isn’t this stupid.

Justin:

This guy’s totally missing it Last question.

Mark:

I’m glad you like this, Lizzie, but you know, this means nothing to me until it’s like she started, you know, going to the purpose of it. It’s like, oh wait, wait, hold on, hold on. This is making yeah, this is a lot more important than I thought it was.

Justin:

So funny.

Mark:

But yeah, so that was just the the timing of it.

Justin:

Yeah

Mark:

And and I think, you know, and and we we’ve have we’ve talked about Enneagrams before. I know we’ve talked about we didn’t do a uh we did did we do an actual podcast?

Justin:

No, no, no.

Mark:

Okay.

Justin:

It might not be a bad idea.

Mark:

Well either. Either way, those pe you know the people who are aware or people who listen who ha know their Enneagram, this is gonna seem kind of it’s gonna have that nothing new under the sun.

Justin:

Yes.

Mark:

type feel to it. You’re gonna be able to pull some of that in. And even the question one, um, you know, where Enneagram one is perfection.

Justin:

Yeah.

Mark:

Perfectionist, I think, you know, it’s like, am I safe? Uh question ones are the world’s guardians. They help people feel safe and protected and natural are naturally able to analyze and predict and tend to be tend to be emotionally connected and sensitive. At their core, they have a physical and emotional safety and negative surprises are no thanks, are a no thanks. Question ones are at their best when they’re relaxed, at peace, and can heal and protect those around them. However, when they’re in the scramble, there you go, there’s the scramble. They tend to try and control the future, live on high alert, and exist in a lot of stress and anxiety.

Justin:

Yeah It’s interesting ’cause you h you translate that as a one uh the kind of the any gram one or you see the connection. Right. Um I I see some of the any gram one stuff in question five, but also that also is question three.

Mark:

Sure.

Justin:

Enneagram three. So Enigram one is kind of this perfectionist idea, right? And um What else is it about the Enneagram one? Do you remember?

Mark:

Perfection. I’m uh the Chris is an Enneagram one. Yeah. So like

Justin:

very precise.

Mark:

Yep.

Justin:

You know, perfectionists details matter, yeah. And kind of expects others to hold to that standard as well. Right. That’s kind of I think an Ennegram one. And

Mark:

that’s what and that’s what reminded me, you know, it’s like they’re they are kind of those guardians. It’s like if I’m if I’m bringing something to your attention that, you know isn’t necessarily right. That’s to protect you. It’s not that I’m wanting to, you know, let you know that I noticed your mistake. It’s to protect you from that failure that you might and it and and it may not matter to the other person. Right. You know, or so it’s just it’s and then, you know, being able to I think it’s, you know, we can definitely see where at times That ability to, if everything is good, relaxed and nurturing and all that, but when that when it’s on high alert It is a desire to protect and provide safety for other people.

Justin:

Yeah.

Mark:

You know, that’s that’s the part, you know, that kind of connected with me in the Enneagram one.

Justin:

Uh that’s totally fair and I’ll just say that’s how you see it, Mark. No. What as I’m reading these, I’m I just I can see one in a lot of these and then vice versa like some of the other ones. Which makes me think like we’re looking at a different angle at the same yeah, right. That’s how I see it. It’s basically like Again, the Enneagram is not a fully encompassing view of a person and neither is any other, you know, the how how we love quiz or whatever. They’re all, like you said, facets or d directions at looking at the same person and so I feel like you can still fit one of these really t t tightly and still be this other Enneagram thing and still see some of the Enneagram stuff in the other it’s like No doubt. Does that make sense? That’s what makes it once you get all these personality tests then you can really see even more who you are and how it’s nuanced.

Mark:

Oh sure.

Justin:

Does that make sense? Oh yeah.

Mark:

Yeah, there’s no doubt there’s nuances. And I think it’s interesting as we as we would read through these, likely, you know, you might lock on one person.

Justin:

Right. It tends to remind you

Mark:

Uh this this this question says, oh, and that that other ‘s awareness is kicking in at that point. And here again, this isn’t a judgmental statement, but having that awareness that says, Oh, okay That might be why, you know, make someone tick.

Justin:

Yes.

Mark:

Yeah.

Justin:

Yeah. To understand. Yeah.

Mark:

Yeah. Because I’m I’m uh in agreement with you. You know, it’s like when we think of, you know, perfection, it might you come back to even for, you know, and I think there’s gonna be it’s gonna be nuanced between male and female even to a certain degree. You know, perfection for a male, perfection for a female. Is it perfection for a male might be driven by success?

Justin:

is am I serving.

Mark:

Right. Or for a female, it might, you know, I’m thinking about honor and respect for guys as far as successful, you know, but security is gonna be bigger or, you know, safety. you know, possibly for that female design, you know, that kind of thing.

Justin:

Although we know that’s not the same for every like not all women need security. Exactly.

Mark:

Yeah. But being able to You know, make it fit to a s to a greater degree. Everybody’s gonna be different, but yeah, there are gonna be some likenesses in that male side of things. Would you like to read the second one?

Justin:

Yeah, let me add it. Question number two. Am I secure? So you talked about am I safe? So there it’d be interesting to talk about the distinctions between these two in your thoughts. But uh this one is The Q2s uh question to people. Q2s are great providers and partners and they build stable environments, prioritize their relationships and finances, and tend to be trustworthy, grounded, and methodical. At their core, they crave security and not having the right amount of money or relational resources to protect themselves is a big fear. When Q2s are at their best, they’re generous, connected, and secure. However, when they’re in their scramble, they tend to fret over money, resources, and relational capital. Which that’s an interesting phrase. Relational capital

Mark:

Yeah. And and w when you read that, you know, I think that’s a it does delineate the difference well between safe, question one, which is safe, question two, which is secure.

Justin:

Because why? Because tease it out. Exactly.

Mark:

Well, I think so much of you know question one, it is about the emotional connection and that the feeling, if you will, of Am I safe? I think the secure is looking at this, this, this, and this. So that number in the bank account You know, the all these factors, I I g I guess I saw it as a little bit more uh defined. You know, I I look at that, I look at that, and I look at that, and it’s like, nope, I’m not secure. That, you know, my bank account needs to go up five thousand more dollars, and then we’ll be good. Whereas I think the safe seems a little more emotional. You know, um, I was I was trying I was thinking of um what’s the ENF

Justin:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That’s another personality.

Mark:

Yeah, the uh you know where uh there was a

Justin:

N T F and INT

Mark:

Exactly. One is sensing or Yeah, you understand where I’m cooking.

Justin:

Intuitive. Yeah, yeah.

Mark:

That’s that’s kind of that difference to me.

Justin:

Yeah.

Mark:

You know, that say felt a little more intuitive, like it’s a it’s a nebulous thing that I am just I just have to feel it. Yeah. I can’t explain it. It’s just a feeling that I have. But uh the secure, you know, it’s trustworthy, grounded. Look at it’s kind of almost like looking at the things I do. Disciplines matter.

Justin:

Yeah Is what

Mark:

what comes to mind for

Justin:

I can produce security by having X, Y, and Z. Yeah. Yeah, a feeling and yeah, I I can see what you’re saying. How do yeah. How do you how does an a question one, am I safe, go about achieving safety? I guess that’s the scramble They try to control future, live on high alert, exist a lot of stress and anxiety, but that’s not a ch Yeah, that’s uh yeah. I can see what you’re saying as far as Yeah. It almost feels like there’s a less ability to address the problem. Yes.

Mark:

That’s that’s my take on it as well, a little bit. It’s like I can’t necessarily put my finger on just one thing.

Justin:

Yeah.

Mark:

It’s this combination.

Justin:

Oh, I need this. Exactly.

Mark:

Yeah, yeah. Exactly. Which is Which is a great awareness.

Justin:

Yeah.

Mark:

If I know what I need and I’m able to communicate that.

Justin:

Right. Yeah.

Mark:

You know, because then other it’s so because one may come down to as simple as I need a hug. Yeah. You follow me at this moment. Whereas whereas two, it’s like, well, we’re spending a little too much from my perspective, you know, and we need to be saving a little more, that kind of thing. And I th and I think in some ways it was funny as I read too, it’s like there was a part of me that could identify with the first part, but it’s like the the second part of um not having the right amount of money, you know, right amount of money or relational, that part didn’t bother me at all.

Justin:

Yeah, yeah.

Mark:

You know, it’s like I don’t have a a specific number.

Justin:

Yeah.

Mark:

You know, it’s like it’s good enough

Justin:

Both one and two kind of remind me of Megan uh in a lot of ways. I mean the world’s guardian, she’s that’s kind of how she operates. Okay. And then also the question two is uh build stable environments, you know, prioritize their relationships and finances tend to be trustworthy, grounded, methodical.

Mark:

Yeah.

Justin:

Like she’s very much those things. Um but then it’s like You know, and uh that’s what you’re gonna find with these things is like half of the thing will nail some and the other half you’re like, yeah, I don’t know. Like um the relational resources. Like she’s not she’s not needy of relational resources. Except probably our family, like real tight.

Mark:

Yeah. So you’re thankful for her. Oh

Justin:

,

Mark:

she’s she’s so many of those other things that you’re not. I agree. Yep. Yes,

Justin:

I think

Mark:

Megan is the things you’re not.

Justin:

Yeah. The stable environments is just I mean a perfect compliment to mm you know what I am, was, could have been.

Mark:

Okay.

Justin:

Like she has been a rock in my life since I met her. Like literally the minute I met her.

Mark:

Yeah.

Justin:

It was a stabilizing force in my kind of very unstable.

Mark:

Yeah. You’re gonna contact Mike after this and you’re gonna say, hey, this is a this is a couples thing here. We can start connecting and you know ones and Ones and twos belong with sevens as far as

Justin:

we could start a speed dating service for you.

Mark:

Exactly. Do

Justin:

like the auction, like are you one? Can I get a one? Can I get a one? I

Mark:

got a seven over here looking for a one, looking for a one. Yes, I hear ya.

Justin:

So it’s like uh what’s that game? Pit

Mark:

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yep.

Justin:

Three, three, three, three, three. I got three

Mark:

wheat. I got barley. But that being said, we’re gonna shift back to the seven questions.

Justin:

Yes we should Yeah. All right, you got three.

Mark:

Question three. Am I loved? The Q3s are gifted at loving and caring for others, and they create safe loving environments for others to feel seen, heard, and treasured. At their core they crave being loved, and the thought of being dismissed, unheard, or unseen is a deep fear When Q3s are at their best, they’re nurturing, kind, empathetic. However, when they’re in their scramble, they tend to become people pleasers, overgive, and engage in codependent behaviors. So yeah, which part popped out to you there? I I realized that codependent behaviors is a is a

Justin:

Yeah CR thing.

Mark:

CR thing. I didn’t know whether you had a specific thought there or not.

Justin:

Um I mean there was a person that popped into my mind for all the good things that are in there. But then the again with some of the bad things, I’m like, I don’t can’t say I’ve ever seen that in this person. Um but yeah. What about you?

Mark:

No, it was this

Justin:

not that we’re gonna go naming names for all of these.

Mark:

No, we’re not, but

Justin:

actually I’m just gonna say Megan’s all of these, so

Mark:

Okay.

Justin:

She’s the best.

Mark:

All the good qualities.

Justin:

Yes, she’s all the good, none of the bad.

Mark:

But yes, that um the the initial part and and I like how you once you kind of read out the rest of it, it makes sense. Because at first that first read it can kind of be close to what’s one. How can I discern the difference? Am I loved? But I think that ability to be heard and seen and treasured. Yeah. Yeah. That makes sense in my ability to feel loved. you know, is based on do you hear what I say?

Justin:

Yeah.

Mark:

You know, am I valuable? You know, that kind of thing. And I and I and once you look at it from that context, I can understand how, yeah Is it love? You know, and I yeah, there’s definitely people that come to mind for me, even in that process, you know, when it comes to the the thought of being dismissed or unheard. is a deep fear.

Justin:

Yeah.

Mark:

You know, and I can understand that how that puts people in a scramble when it seems like I’m saying something, but it doesn’t matter.

Justin:

Yeah.

Mark:

It doesn’t change anything. You know? And and yeah, I could understand how, you know, that can happen. Uh just in the aspect, well uh there again, finances. You know, I’m saying this and this and this and we, you know, need to cut back on our spending and you just bought that. You know, I can understand how that creates a a rupture in that conflict between who we are.

Justin:

Yeah.

Mark:

Especially, you know, if I’m if I’m looking at that uh and this reminds me again, I know we’ve talked about this before, the uh money languages. You know, if I’m trying to create security by being analytical, saving, and you’re trying to, you know, promote success by Buying these things that make us look successful, you can understand how that’s gonna create some conflict. Yeah, no doubt.

Justin:

Yeah.

Mark:

But anything more on question three?

Justin:

Um No. Uh my thought was that one feels weak to me. Mm. And then I thought that thought of mine probably has a lot to do with who I am and the question, you know, like and I I imagine fr whichever quadrant you’re in looking at out at the other ones, you’re gonna say, that one seems wrong for these you know what I mean? Sure. Of course.

Mark:

Sure.

Justin:

But that one of of all of ’em feels very like weak And I would not want to be in that quadrant. Does that make sense?

Mark:

No, I hear you. And I

Justin:

but I but I know I’m I know my vision of it’s incorrect in the sense that if someone is loving, they’re they’re gaining the benefits of being a loving person, which I clearly miss out on.

Mark:

No, I hear you. Yeah, it makes sense. Yeah. And I think in some ways Um, I l I like that uh we’re use of the word codependent. You know what I mean? I think that can have that perspective that You know, I just I’m just not comfortable standing on my own.

Justin:

Yeah.

Mark:

I want someone else who’s basically able to, I can kind of align with that person.

Justin:

Yeah.

Mark:

So yeah, it’s just I think about it in that context of, you know, it makes sense when I’m looking for that validation, if you will.

Justin:

Yeah.

Mark:

And even if I’m fe even if feeling what you’re feeling gives me that validation, that’s an important thing.

Justin:

Yeah.

Mark:

So yeah. That’s what how I was thinking about from the codependent part. And recognizing all of these have their pros and cons, just like anything.

Justin:

Yeah.

Mark:

Yeah.

Justin:

Yep. I guess that ‘s kind of my my confession, is that it’s hard for me to see much for pros in see versus seeing a lot for negatives. No, yeah.

Mark:

Yeah.

Justin:

But again, I recognize that’s pretty squarely coming from the quadrant I sit in. So

Mark:

And yeah, we we’d probably be able to say if the right person Yeah. Dismissed you and made you feel unheard and you’re no no Justin, that doesn’t matter.

Justin:

Right, right, right.

Mark:

Forget it. Move on.

Justin:

Yeah. Yeah.

Mark:

You you would definitely likely have a little more reactivity to that depending on the person.

Justin:

Yeah.

Mark:

Yeah.

Justin:

Yeah, absolutely, yes, definitely have struggled with that in the past of like being it having a conversation and feeling like we never had it.

Mark:

Yes. Like

Justin:

oh how did How is this feel this way? Yeah. Yes, exactly. So yeah, I can definitely relate to that.

Mark:

No doubt.

Justin:

I guess that’s kind of my point. Like I see some of the negative stuff and even can reflect on it and see how, you know versus the positive, I can’t really relate to it.

Mark:

So

Justin:

I think that’s probably why it feels like that.

Mark:

Yeah.

Justin:

Yeah.

Mark:

You see primarily negative. with that specific question.

Justin:

Because I I think because I can relate to the negative versus I don’t I can’t, you know, relate to the positive.

Mark:

Yeah.

Justin:

I’m not effervescent in my love, if that makes sense. Like I

Mark:

sure.

Justin:

So it yeah, it’s anyway.

Mark:

Question four?

Justin:

Question four. Am I wanted? The Q4s are welcoming, accepting, and inclusive, and they’re excellent at connecting people and including them. At their core, they crave being wanted, and the thought of being excluded Replaced or shunned is a deep fear. When Q4s are uh at their best, they’re strong in social settings, good with people, and make others feel special. However, when they’re in their scramble, they tend to lose themselves and the need to feel wanted themselves. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yep.

Mark:

Yeah.

Justin:

Yeah. Another one I can relate to the the negative more than a positive.

Mark:

Yeah. Okay.

Justin:

Yeah.

Mark:

Yeah. And I think it’s interesting to when we, you know, describe that difference. I like the I like the subtle differences You know, because there is a difference, you know, between being wanted in my presence, you know, I want you in my presence. I want, you know, you’re valued versus valued. Which is the loved part.

Justin:

Yeah.

Mark:

You know, and I just it’s it’s it’s not something that I would routinely think about, but reading through this I can understand those subtle differences.

Justin:

Nuances.

Mark:

Yeah. Because, you know, it’s it’s it’s kind of funny when I think about it. I there’s um um I forget the theory that it comes out of Um it begins with an S, but either way, there’s a there’s a a worksheet that I’ll sometimes use um because there’s when we grow up, there’s differences between violations of love and violations of trust. In other words, love has to do with those valuing and, you know, dynamics. when I wasn’t valued, but trust has more to do with the structure and the disciplines and the routine routines , you know, and you know, we think of that and we could you’ll hear those two words and love and trust and it’s like uh they can almost be synonymous in some ways. But yet when you break ’em out in a little bit, and that’s what I appreciate about this, yeah, there’s a difference between being valued and yet still being wanted, you know. What I do with your heart versus what you are to me in a presence, you know, that I desire your presence versus how I handle your heart. Those are kind of two different things to me.

Justin:

Yeah.

Mark:

Well, in here and that that’s kind of the part that pops out. Any other thoughts on question four other than another one you don’t want?

Justin:

Yeah, I mean those two really again they fall probably in the And the continuum maybe on the other side of where I am, maybe, because they both just feel very needy without a lot of benefit.

Mark:

Sure.

Justin:

But again,

Mark:

it would be interesting. Yeah. What is it about those ones? And granted, it’s probably more the negative side of it. Yeah. that makes it almost seem repulsive to you personally. Yeah.

Justin:

Yeah. And I yeah. Yeah, very interesting. I I do think it Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I I’m sure we could spend plenty of time breaking down the the repulsion because I think I think there’s there’s some stuff to that. But uh but yeah, it it is interesting. I I think too, if I could I can picture certain people fitting in both of these that are good people that I you know. But they don’t n like there’s parts of it that I just lose it. I’m like, ah maybe not that person. So if I could picture like the quintessential number question for a person, maybe it wouldn’t feel so repuzzled because I’d be like, oh like look at how this benefits their life and like I can see the value in their life as a result of being that thing and I think I’m just not able to put the right face there to be able to kind of get there. So I all I’m able to do instead is see the mirror.

Mark:

Yep.

Justin:

And where I r reflect in those things and it’s only the bad.

Mark:

Sure. Right. So

Justin:

to your point about being dismissed, like when I see that myself, it’s like, ugh, I don’t want everyone to struggle with am I loved or am I wanted? Like, cause I do. Right. Like both of ’em.

Mark:

Yep.

Justin:

Does that make sense?

Mark:

That makes perfect sense. And this is this is my this is my challenge to our audience If you see yourself as a close friend of Justin and you take this assessment and you come up with a three or a four

Justin:

Don’t tell him.

Mark:

No, make sure you tell him. That way he’ll know it’s like

Justin:

I actually like to know that.

Mark:

Hey, I’m a four.

Justin:

Yeah

Mark:

You know, and this is yeah, I c I I could align with four and you know, we’re good friends.

Justin:

So so that’s the r reason there was a big pause is like, do I really wanna say this because I don’t want people who actually are that to think I think less of them. I think it’s more about seeing myself in those things and going, you get that away from me. Yes.

Mark:

It’s more about self awareness. That’s like, okay, what is it about that weakness? that makes it seem uncomfortable for me.

Justin:

Yeah.

Mark:

Yeah. No, I hear ya.

Justin:

Is that fair?

Mark:

Oh yeah. That’s perfectly fair. I appreciate you sharing in that. Yeah.

Justin:

Yeah, I’ve worked very I I think the thing is I’ve worked very hard to find a place where I feel loved and wanted. Mm-hmm. And so the idea of

Mark:

The idea of not being here, not being where I am now, where I’ve grown to, is repulsive to you.

Justin:

I think that’s a good breakdown. of it.

Mark:

No, I just it it would make perfect sense. I’m not saying that’s the case. We’d have to talk a little longer.

Justin:

Yeah I would have to pay a lot more money for that topic.

Mark:

Yes But no, but it would be interesting. But either way, so yes. Um my turn. Yes. Yeah. Fair enough Uh Q5s are confident focused.

Justin:

Wait, what’s the question?

Mark:

Oh, sorry. Thank you.

Justin:

You’re welcome.

Mark:

I had to I had to shift

Justin:

Yes, Mark, you are Sorry.

Mark:

The Q Fies are confident, focused, and help everyone solve problems and win. At their core, they want to be and be seen as successful. and being seen as incompetent or underachieving is their worst possible outcome. When Q fives are at their best, they lead themselves and others to positive outcomes and their can-do attitudes give them the ability to produce great work. However, when they’re in their scramble, they tend to lose sight of the bigger picture, engage in workaholic behaviors and work towards outcomes they may not really want.

Justin:

So question.

Mark:

Question five. That’s question five.

Justin:

Yes. I have my own question. Question Eight. It’s after the other one.

Mark:

Okay. That’s fair enough.

Justin:

Uh no, it’s not a primal question. It’s a question about the primal. Is this a continuum? Like one through seven? And it’s a you know, but you get what I’m saying?

Mark:

Yeah.

Justin:

Because to me it makes sense that it is in the sense that it f okay, my perspective, after you read am I successful and as we’re getting closer to seven, the closer we get to seven, like as you go up backwards from seven, the more you know, I relate most to seven and then next most to six and next most to five. Or maybe. I don’t know. I haven’t quite done the thoughts on it. But definitely the continuum get I get further from relating it till we get to close to two and one where I’m like, Oh, there’s Megan. The o opposite, right? Like Summy Is that what this is?

Mark:

I’m not I’m not seeing it as a continuum. I would see it as multidimensional.

Justin:

Okay.

Mark:

You know, I I would I would uh when I say that it’s like well What would what would be, you know, I guess value. Well, when I think of trust, okay, trust is multidimensional.

Justin:

Yeah.

Mark:

It’s not a continuum of whether I trust you or I don’t trust you, which would be a continuum. But I may trust you with a personal information, but I may not trust you with my finances. You follow me? That’s yeah. And so I don’t necessarily see these as a continuum. I see them as you know, spokes in a wheel that they’re multi-dimensional.

Justin:

Yeah.

Mark:

Or even like the Enneagram where you you may have a circle, yeah, but you know, there’s some connectors that you know, kinda come across. But I don’t see it as a you know, a line continuum that these are all on the same dynamic. But that’s just my answer to your question.

Justin:

Yeah.

Mark:

But I will I will say there was a Uh as I was reading five, I it was interesting to think about how closely that relates to the seven from when I was reading it. Did you have any parts of you that was like That could be a little bit me in that process.

Justin:

As a seven seven, I feel very relating to at least the first sentence. I d I you know, I haven’t

Mark:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Justin:

Not at all, yeah. But so yeah.

Mark:

So you and it there’s a part of you that says, okay, I could have been a five, six, or a seven as I really kind of read that it happened to be that I’m a seven.

Justin:

Yeah. When we get to seven, I have some thoughts about seven. So I don’t want to get spoiled yet. But yes. No, that’s fair. I definitely feel like maybe on any given day, month, or year of my life I c I I would say Three through seven.

Mark:

Okay.

Justin:

I could fall on.

Mark:

Sure. And it’s interesting uh in that uh that last part of five there that well actually it’s in the first part and being uh seen as incompetent or underachieving is their worst outcome.

Justin:

Yeah, like that’s Sounds very true of me.

Mark:

Exactly. It wasn’t so much the what was it? It wasn’t so much the underachieving but incompetent.

Justin:

Yeah.

Mark:

It’s like who wants to be seen as in com you know

Justin:

Wait, which one is that? That’s five?

Mark:

That’s still five, yes. Okay. That last part of that first. Yeah.

Justin:

Yeah, like you’re right. Like of course it we’re all gonna well, not all. I mean, I’m not gonna be able to do that.

Mark:

No, that’s the interesting part of it, because I’m you know Not that that person is weak, but it’s like I could identify with that person, you know, in that aspect of if they felt incompetent.

Justin:

Yeah.

Mark:

And yet uh there’s a part of me that would basically say, well, there is still I may not do I can I can spin that from my own I guess I’ll call it maturity and recognize, okay, well, I may I may just not have learned that trade yet. You follow trade. In other words, like if I’m looking, if I’m if someone is judging me as incompetent, I could still spin that to say, I mean Think about it from the aspect of the thing.

Justin:

I’m not always gonna

Mark:

even from a podcast perspective. I recognize, you know, compared to the to the gurus out there, you know, it’s like I haven’t arrived, you know, from that. And and so others might view that. It’s like, what the heck are you guys doing there still? Or you what are you still doing there? You know, you just haven’t made it. You know, you have this many listeners, but it’s like That’s where it can come back to a seven to for me because it does come back to well there’s a purpose even if it affects just one.

Justin:

Yep.

Mark:

And my competency has to be a good thing.

Justin:

The fact that we’re both seven makes perfect sense that we do this podcast.

Mark:

To the degree that we do it, yeah.

Justin:

To the degree that we do it. And that were not if I would say if we were bent more towards five successful.

Mark:

We’d be done by now

Justin:

Or or we would have worked a lot harder by now to get

Mark:

you know what I mean?

Justin:

Like we would have done some of the work necessary to become successful or give it up. Like

Mark:

both of us are content.

Justin:

Yes. I think because we’re content in the purpose aspect We can say that if one person gets something out of this, it’s worth doing. And that’s enough for us.

Mark:

No, I hear you.

Justin:

And I think that’s okay. Like that’s How we’re built and that’s okay. And I think th for that one person that we actually mean something to, they also say, I’m glad you’re that way because Yeah, you know what I’m saying?

Mark:

I do. I do. That’s a great way to look at it.

Justin:

But I do think if we were bent towards five, we probably would, you know, look at the metrics, look at do some research, some go you know, hire some people. You know, like there’s stuff that can be done. We both know that.

Mark:

Sure.

Justin:

Right?

Mark:

Yeah. I think you know that a little more than I know that. Yes, I agree with you.

Justin:

Yeah.

Mark:

Yeah.

Justin:

Yeah.

Mark:

Yeah.

Justin:

But again, if you were more five, you would know it too.

Mark:

Sure. Sure. We know it is sevens, but if you were five, it would be more important.

Justin:

Yes.

Mark:

Yes, it would it would bring on a urgency.

Justin:

Yes. Yeah. To the point about you don’t know it as well as I do. But if you were five, you’d probably know it better than I did. Like you know exactly where you’re coming from. You know, we’re not successful because we’re not doing what this person does and that thing does and what this article recommends.

Mark:

Yeah.

Justin:

Right?

Mark:

Exactly.

Justin:

Yeah.

Mark:

Yeah. So

Justin:

very interesting.

Mark:

No doubt.

Justin:

Yeah.

Mark:

Any other thoughts on five?

Justin:

Um if you guys lend themselves and those positive outcomes and they can their can do attitude gives them the ability to produce great work. However when they’re in their scramble they tend to lose sight of the bigger picture, engage in work all I mean I really R f yeah, I resemble a lot of that. Like I r uh resemble uh

Mark:

a workaholic.

Justin:

Uh what’s the word I uh r uh Relate. Okay. Wow. Okay. That word just disappeared from the brain. But it came back. Thank you.

Mark:

You can identify with that.

Justin:

Yes, I can identify with that one for sure. Yeah. Both good and bad. No doubt. Alcoholic. lose sight of the bigger picture, work towards outcomes they may not really want. All three of those definitely can relate to. Yeah.

Mark:

Yeah.

Justin:

Again, three through seven, the I can relate

Mark:

Sure. Yep.

Justin:

And again, three, four really being scary versions of relating.

Mark:

No doubt.

Justin:

And I don’t like it You know.

Mark:

And it’s interesting. I I I like the fact in some ways we’re doing this now, as far as, you know, we talked about, you know, not being big on resolutions, but Still this beginning of the year self-awareness, you know, just to be able to kind of read this and say, okay, yeah, where am I at? What do what do what are my tendencies? Yeah. You know, this isn’t gonna fit everybody perfectly, but still being able to say, okay, yeah, I have some tendencies towards this, and how can I how can I grow in certain ways? Yeah.

Justin:

Of of these, you know, I’ve already mentioned To for me it’s very much a continuum one to seven. How I relate to them. Um like the closer you get to seven the more I really How do you feel in terms of of these other ones, which ones do you say if I wasn’t a seven, I’d probably be that one? Like, do you have that? Well let’s f

Mark:

let’s finish up six. Okay.

Justin:

Let’s do it.

Mark:

Yeah. Yes. Your your turn.

Justin:

Uh yes, number six. Am I good enough? The Q sixes are valuable, advocating, and full of special abilities. Plus, they’re great at seeing possibilities and spotting untapped resources. At their core, they want to be seen as good and ever being negative and they want to see

Mark:

And ever being negatively thought of Or criticize is a huge deal.

Justin:

Yes. Ever being negatively thought of or criticized is a huge deal to them. When Q6s are at their best, they add value to others, embrace their own imperfections. and maximize the val the lives around them. However, however, when they’re in their scramble, they tend to see themselves as a victim or shut down. I feel like if I didn’t take the quiz and I just read these, I’d probably pick that. I’m probably six.

Mark:

I hear you.

Justin:

So I’m glad the quiz said I’m seven. Because I like seven better.

Mark:

Like

Justin:

so

Mark:

Yeah

Justin:

I’m still waiting until we get to seven to talk about my theory here. Yeah.

Mark:

Sure.

Justin:

Especially the closer I get to the beginning of my life, if that makes sense.

Mark:

Going back in time.

Justin:

Yes.

Mark:

Yeah. I gotcha.

Justin:

I’m gonna say my theory because I

Mark:

Well let’s finish up seven. Can we finish up seven? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Uh Q7. Do I have a purpose? The Q7s are imaginative, forward-thinking, and impactful, and they consistently make the world around them a better place. At their core, they want to live a life full of meaning and living a purposeless life is the worst thing that could happen to them. When Q7s are at their best, they embrace their boundless visions, rally people towards a difference, and help others unlock their purpose. However, when they’re in the scramble, they tend to get caught up in finding the right path, which can cause them to miss the good.

Justin:

It’s good.

Mark:

There you go. Now

Justin:

in the bad too, like yeah.

Mark:

Yeah. I mean and it it’s interesting and n I’ll I’ll tell you before I go, now you can share your theory. Go ahead.

Justin:

No, I want to hear you go. My theory will.

Mark:

I’m I’m I’m with you in the process. When I read the descriptions and I and I um I’m still thinking about your continuum dynamic, but in other words, I think what it comes down to for me is purpose trumps. the other equations. You know, it’s like when I r I’m with you, when I read six, you know, in other words, what I do in my job You know, it’s a it’s about seeing people’s strengths and how I can, you know, utilize them in such a way that helps them see what they could be.

Justin:

Yeah.

Mark:

You follow me? That’s that that is definitely part of a passion for me. But even that recognizes when I look at it that way, for me that becomes part of my purpose because that tends to that’s I guess it’s a way I see people that helps them find their purpose.

Justin:

Yeah.

Mark:

And yeah, I’ll admit, um, I don’t necessarily I’m thinking of our our imaginative forward thinking. That’s I don’t necessarily see myself as very imaginative And I and I definitely have the the I might have a legacy-mindedness, but I don’t necessarily see myself as someone who is long-term planning. all aspects of my life. You follow me?

Justin:

Yeah.

Mark:

So in some ways I am yeah, I could I could waffle in that.

Justin:

To me that’s a two.

Mark:

What’s a two?

Justin:

The peop so the people who architect their future are more ones or two quite. I think the the fact that you have dreams about sparrows rest and the pond and all these things. It kind of speaks to that.

Mark:

I hear where you’re coming from.

Justin:

Like you don’t need to have the details, you just

Mark:

And that’s probably and here again that might be where you you felt the love and other parts feel icky to you.

Justin:

Oh.

Mark:

You know, that might the forward thinking. I recognize I’m not

Justin:

architecting the future. Yeah.

Mark:

Yeah, I’m not an architect.

Justin:

Yeah, that feels icky. Yeah.

Mark:

You know, it’s like if I have to have you know, all the numbers. That’s what that’s why Chris is such a blessing to me. You know, she’s a numbers person. You know, and she says, well, where does this stand? And you know And I can be that more generalized. Yeah. Okay, this is what we’ll do moving forward. And yeah, that’s I can I can I can But there again, when it I don’t see myself as being very imaginative. You know, and the forward thinking, those two parts on that It’s kind of said, uh I just don’t see myself necessarily there. But I do recognize that I want what I do to matter.

Justin:

Yeah.

Mark:

And that’s I think where what trumps that for me as a seven. over the six.

Justin:

Yeah.

Mark:

In that dynamic. But

Justin:

I also just from my how I see it, don’t agree with even your own assessment And that you’re not imagining it to which again is how I see it. Like forward thinking, I think you are very s uh What’s the what’s the term I use for you? Calcul

Mark:

calculating?

Justin:

Calculating.

Mark:

Yeah. Uh

Justin:

in the sense that you don’t do something that doesn’t matter. Right.

Mark:

I gotcha. Right.

Justin:

And that’s forward thinking. Like you take this opportunity in front of you and you look forward. How will this impact my and your future?

Mark:

Sure.

Justin:

Is there an opportunity for purpose in it? If not, you’re like, no.

Mark:

Yeah.

Justin:

Right? Or if so, then you’ll say, How much how much purpose can we suss out of this? Okay, it’s worth doing.

Mark:

Sure.

Justin:

Right? I think that’s very much forward thinking. And also You’re maybe you’re thinking imaginative as creative. That’s not necessarily it’s being able to see a scenario in your mind, imagine it, and then imagine it

Mark:

as it could be to achieve that Yes.

Justin:

And I think in order to pluck purpose out of others and see purpose, you have to have em that’s that imagination.

Mark:

I gotcha.

Justin:

So y I think you’re thinking of Disney World and imagineering and creativity. And I just I think they’re different.

Mark:

I agree with you. Because and I and I

Justin:

fist pump.

Mark:

Cynthia. But yes, I was mixing up imaginative with creative.

Justin:

Yeah.

Mark:

And I don’t see myself as a creative person, but imaginative, yeah, I do think about I because I even in like sessions, I will think about, okay. How can I help this person see this differently? And I start, you know, and that’s where I’ll use narratives a lot.

Justin:

Yeah.

Mark:

To be able to say, okay, this is what that is feeling like and you know it helps people. Yeah. So I yeah.

Justin:

Yeah.

Mark:

I don’t necessarily imaginative means I’m and from my perspective, it’s I’m willing to rethink how I think about it to help you understand it better.

Justin:

I mean, I think that’s a pretty good definition of imagination.

Mark:

Right.

Justin:

But again, I think we have a specific idea. of imagination based on Disney World, right? Like Yeah, yeah, no no what you did.

Mark:

Exactly. I was I was as I was reflecting in that moment while you were sharing, uh I’m in a complete agreement with you You know, imagination and creativity can be two different things. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. So

Justin:

here’s my theory. You ready?

Mark:

Yeah, I’m ready.

Justin:

I feel like seven.

Mark:

You’re thinking that seven.

Justin:

I’m thinking. Thank you. Trying to think, do I feel it? Yeah, and so I think it’s I’m thinking seven is a privileged position.

Mark:

Oh.

Justin:

And and or so it depends on how you define privilege. But I think when I feel like I’ve climbed the ladder for imp from am I loved? Up to am I wanted? Up to am I successful? Up to am I good enough? And landed on do I have purpose. And I feel like I get to have this primal thing because the other things are met. I feel safe, I feel secure, whatever I am, I feel loved. And I feel like if you were to again go back in my life, I’d be in a different question. You know what I’m saying?

Mark:

So you see this very similar to a hierarchy of needs.

Justin:

Not really because I because I don’t think someone who wants to feel safe is less like my perspective from where I sit, I feel like I can say I’m at a seven now. in my forties.

Mark:

I gotcha. Yeah.

Justin:

But there’s a privilege. Here’s why I say it’s a theory. There’s a good chance I would have gotten that answer twenty years ago too. I mean I I guess I guess I’m saying I could be totally wrong. But it just feels like it’s easy to say this is what

Mark:

we’re gonna have to review this in another ten years.

Justin:

Yeah. Or go back twenty years. Can we do that? No.

Mark:

No. No. But Yeah.

Justin:

I mean it’s I I recognize that it does put a certain tint on the others and that they’re less than and that’s it’s that’s not my desire at all. But I feel and I yeah.

Mark:

I here’s here’s where I’m at. I think Uh because we are at a seven, it can seem exactly like you’re saying, and yeah, I’m gonna recognize, you know I have a strong v sense of value, as do you, for our wives.

Justin:

Yeah.

Mark:

And I’m not saying they’re necessarily sixes and sevens.

Justin:

Right.

Mark:

You know what I mean? So from that perspective, I’m gonna recognize, no, those we we benefit. from the other ones and twos and threes in in our

Justin:

seven.

Mark:

Sure.

Justin:

Right?

Mark:

Sure.

Justin:

I guess again come back to that privileged word.

Mark:

Uh-huh.

Justin:

Right? Like my life has come to a d certain point where I have the things in place to where I don’t have to worry about those other needs.

Mark:

I gotcha.

Justin:

I guess so therefore it frees me up to deal with my you know, my natural n fear or whatever do I have purpose.

Mark:

Your scramble. Yeah. In other words, when Q7s are at their best, they embrace their boundless visions. So those other t ones and twos in your life have allowed you to embrace what you want to be able to do.

Justin:

Yeah.

Mark:

You follow me? Yeah. And people help people towards a difference and help others. In other words, if you didn’t have Megan in your life, you wouldn’t be able to do that.

Justin:

Right.

Mark:

Quite like you can now in your 40s.

Justin:

Yep.

Mark:

And unlock purpose. However When they’re in their scramble, they tend to get caught up in finding the right path, which can cause them to miss the good.

Justin:

Yeah.

Mark:

You follow me?

Justin:

Yes.

Mark:

And so I think, you know, it’s you’re at a po you’re at a less scrambled part of life as a seven.

Justin:

Yeah. Yeah.

Mark:

Because of the ones and twos around you.

Justin:

Yeah. Yeah.

Mark:

Just kind of a interesting. Yeah. Because I think, you know, so often And I and I think you’d agree with this, you know, so often early on in relationship, you know, it is that difference that tends to create the conflict. Why don’t you why don’t you just let me do my thing? You know?

Justin:

Yeah.

Mark:

But, you know, because your thing is counter to my thing.

Justin:

Yeah.

Mark:

You know, but as we learn in relationship that no. our our things can be

Justin:

coexist and be complementary

Mark:

yes

Justin:

synergistic.

Mark:

Sure. Then we’re able to be, you know, that.

Justin:

Yeah.

Mark:

A fuller sense of ans answering that question. So yeah.

Justin:

So I also recognize too that Well very from the very beginning I was saying I think my perspective is very squarely centered in the quad this quadrant of do I have purpose. So looking out at the other ones I’m only seeing it through that perspective. And even looking at this one it’s like I see this one from this perspective as the best one. I imagine that one ‘s probably feel that’s the best one in two years and three. You know what I’m saying?

Mark:

No doubt.

Justin:

And they would say Like for instance, am I loved and do I love you know, like at their best they’re very loving and effusive and they would say the greatest commandments love God and people, so I got it right. Sure, right maybe. I don’t know, I’m I’m not them, but I can see how looking out from any of those other ones, you could have the same uh yeah. Perfect. And it’s

Mark:

and it’s interesting as we come back. to self-awareness and others’ awareness, how the, you know, ones and twos have that empathetic perspective and I think, you know, that’s where, you know, as you described it, it’s like, as I understand I’m a seven my ability to value value and be empathetic about ones and twos can actually grow

Justin:

Yeah.

Mark:

Whereas, you know, or even where threes or fours are concerned, once I understand what they contribute, it’s like They do it in a way that’s not repulsive to me. You know, but as from my seven, that feels like a spot that’s icky. I don’t want to go there. You know, I I start feeling reactive about that. Yeah. But they’re very comfortable right there. And I need those people in my lives to help me better fulfill my seven.

Justin:

Yeah. You know what’s interesting about what You just said made me think about the scrambling as a seven is tending to get caught up in finding the right path, which can cause them to miss the good. And I feel like Those things that feel icky about those other ones. I think are when I’m scrambling to find the right path and I is it is it being wanted And I’m, you know, spinning my wheels about trying to feel wanted and it doesn’t work.

Mark:

Sure.

Justin:

Am I loved and I’m spinning my wheels? It doesn’t work. Am I successful? Alright, let’s chase that. Spinning my wheels and it doesn’t work. Right.

Mark:

Yeah.

Justin:

Because I’m scrambling as a seven.

Mark:

I would agree

Justin:

Interesting.

Mark:

Yeah.

Justin:

Interesting. Interesting.

Mark:

No doubt. So yeah.

Justin:

That’s uh yeah.

Mark:

So feel free to take the assessment. You know, know that know that this isn’t cut and stone type thing and you know It’s just a desire to, you know, share a little bit of a an insight, a a fun little assessment, and just, you know, grow in uh grow in a self-awareness type thing. It’s been uh It’s been fun to have the discussion as far as, you know, um that other ‘s awareness and go ahead.

Justin:

Well, I was gonna say one of the things I like about this particular assessment is that We fit it all on one Google Doc and we can look at it here. Sure. Not a lot of the assessments are that uh succinct.

Mark:

Sure.

Justin:

Uh so

Mark:

Can we share that? We can share this, right?

Justin:

Yeah, I mean I’d rather share his webpage. Yeah, that’s true too. Yeah, give him the credit. Um but because it’s all on his page too, but um Uh but but the point is read all of them and try you know you don’t just learn about yourself. Take the quiz, you know, figure out what you are, but then you know, read up on the other ones because that’s No one know who you are is only half the equation.

Mark:

And I think in some ways, and granted, maybe with the a little spoiler alert type thing, I would take the assessment before I even read the questions.

Justin:

Yeah, I agree.

Mark:

Because otherwise you’re gonna kind of

Justin:

heard this

Mark:

Exactly. Ideally before you heard this r episode. But

Justin:

yeah. All things being equal. Yeah. So I agree. Take the assessment.

Mark:

Yeah.

Justin:

First. Good point.

Mark:

Because yeah, it’ll uh

Justin:

and also I didn’t know this during the first third of the questions, but you can slide the slider between all the way the left and like it’s a continuum, like Mark was saying. Yeah. I was going all the way I thought it was I thought it was one of those binary ones.

Mark:

Okay.

Justin:

But yeah, you can put it right wherever you want. You can leave it right in the middle, which I also figured out and did a few times

Mark:

Oh did you? Okay. Yeah.

Justin:

So very feel neutral about it.

Mark:

No, I’ve I like you say I moved the slider every time, but not far at some times. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Justin:

Yeah.

Mark:

Yeah. But so no We we uh maybe we should just record uh a segment after this that says when you listen to this podcast, please go to and take this, but either way, yeah, you get the idea.

Justin:

Yeah

Mark:

It’s been fun, Justin. I just said it, but who listens to a podcast from the back?

Justin:

Oh, you mean stick it at the front?

Mark:

Yeah.

Justin:

All right.

Mark:

I’m not saying we have to, but it’s it was.

Justin:

I’ll just say it right now and I’ll I’ll put it at the front.

Mark:

Podcast listeners, please take a moment to go to the

Justin:

Mike Foster ‘s

Mark:

Seven Primal

Justin:

Questions Assessment.

Mark:

And then listen to the rest of the podcast.

Justin:

You can go to primalquestion. com. Uh yeah, that’s probably the best place to go.

Mark:

Yeah.

Justin:

Nice job. I’m gonna put that at the front and I’m also gonna leave it at the end so everyone can.

Mark:

That’s right. That’s fair enough. They’ll know they’ll know I wasn’t very forethinking on that part.

Justin:

But at the vegating they’d be like wow they were very forward thinking

Mark:

So that’s how we see it

Justin:

Hey, thank you for listening to our podcast. If you like how I see it, please do all the things that podcasts tell you to do. Subscribe, rate, review, follow us, uh, and or talk nicely about us on social media. If you want to reach out, the email is us at howiseeit.click. Yep, I said dot click. As in dot click Please tell your friends about this show, and we’ll see you on the next one.