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[Music]

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good good morning Justin good morning how are you I'm doing pretty well are

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you doing pretty well have you have you given up hasht Dandy I hav hash dandy

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man I gave that up real quick didn't I yeah I'm doing Dandy you doing Dandy

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hashtag Hey there you go good deal glad you're Dandy thank you for bringing that back well you know I just figure good

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things need to be reminded every now and then so you know just trying to create some Justin

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isms you should show them our new sound effect I do I do here it

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is oh yeah the record scratch he's going to start rapping next

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no not today not today we'll save it for another episode I that'll be a very polarizing

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episode there you go Mark wraps that's right I just uh I enjoy the technology

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it's fun to hear some different things yeah that's right yeah I just I with the

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headset you just hear so much more you do or at least I do I should say it's like yeah 3D listening yeah yeah yeah

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sometimes it's a little intimidating like whoa yeah yeah yeah it's good though 3D listening I like that image

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listening yeah kind of feels like that it does

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[Music] welcome to how I see it with me Mark

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Pratt and Justin Sternberg this is a podcast that works to

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countercultural polarization through thoughtful [Music]

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conversations it kind of and and I was thinking about that even in the context of our subject this morning 3D listening

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yeah and our subject yeah is and our subject is Faith this morning yeah I

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can't wait to hear this connection yeah well I was thinking about it in the context of you know faith for me is this

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connection between well I'll I'll put it out there you know uh uh a Triune God and myself

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you know and and other people to where it's it's m it's it's probably more than

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3DS but it's multi-dimensional mhm you know from my perspective and and how

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realistically I'm me well I should say what I'm doing is a result or who I am

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is a result of people's Faith before me and the things that you

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know will happen in the future will be a result of some of my faith seeds being

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planted you know and it's just I I just think about that and recognizing uh God

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is Sovereign over all of that yeah so it's just it's just very it's not linear

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in other words faith faith 3D or more yeah yeah

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that's that's kind of the you know in our in our techn does AR aren't we up to like more than that now up to what I I

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heard I heard 4D the other day I thought 4D yeah I think what is 4D I'm trying to remember 3D

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is I think I feel like they call 4D when they add motion you know like those

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rides that 3D rides where you sit in a chair that also moves oh okay feel like

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they call that 40 I gotcha yeah I heard that in a reference it's like made me wonder for a second yeah yeah but either

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way yeah can't say I'm up to the latest D technology it's kind of X Y and Z access you know axis you know so that's

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kind of the last the next were you adding another one you know horizontal

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yeah but either way so yeah that's that's where I'm at so I meant to say diagonal

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horizontal sorry I couldn't let that go we know we have fact Checkers out

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there that's right we know they're going to do it that'd be great to have a fact checked uh episode I will say I did get

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a good shout out uh from one of our listeners on the on yeah it was on the

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um uh Cory tenbon when we talked about who wrote uh you know they were shouting

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at us yeah my mother-in-law she said yeah she said I that was so funny that you called

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that cuz there I was just shouting into the you know into the computer into my phone saying it's Cory tenbon it's Cory

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ton I think we heard her that's why it finally came to us uh that in Google

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there you go no it was just funny but that is funny yeah that's great so like and and that being said we appreciate

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you uh all of our listeners just kind of comments and share and just kind of yeah

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soback is great we love the feedback it's fun to hear yeah even if you disagree or check us I mean it's just

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fun to have the conversations as we say so yeah no doubt so Faith yeah what do

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you know about faith Mark uh not enough yeah not enough see I've really uh I've

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really kind of been been uh factchecking recognizing

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that um you know when when uh Jesus talks about you know if you have the faith of a mustard seed type stuff you

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know and I I want to maybe I'm maybe I'm quoting that incorrectly I'm not saying he said the

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faith of a mustard seed the facei faith faith the size of a mustard seed because

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you figure you want me to look it up well I'm I'm thinking about it as a size

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thing yeah versus faith that a mustard seed has oh yeah you follow me metaphor

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right or S yeah yeah yeah it's like a mustard SE yeah now I'm I'm going to

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look it up cuz I'm just so I can't but I'm thinking about it if you know in a

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reference as Jesus did it and by all means check it out but I'm thinking about it as you know basically the Fai

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Faith the size of a mustard seed you know you can say to this mountain move and you know you can kind of throw it

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into the sea type thing yeah and granted I apologize that's my that's my best paraphrase

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but I it it makes me it helps me recognize that uh my

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faith probably isn't nearly that big yeah you know and you think of a mustard

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seed is very small and I can I can remember I can remember you know like the there's the the jewelry mustard seed

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you know like where they can uh encapsulate M you know I've seen a mustard seed encapsulated in um what

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naughty pop yeah yeah and it's just interesting to think about you

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know but so yeah I I just recognize did you have it there yeah I I got in a

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Bible Hub you know Bible Hub is yeah yeah yeah so we can we I can read like

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52 versions if you want no I'm all good what's your favorite version uh whichever you're whichever you want to

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choose I like New Living Translation there you go go forver you don't have

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enough Faith Jesus told them I tell you the truth if you had faith faith even as

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small as a mustard seed you could say to this mountain move from here to there and it would move nothing would be

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impossible yeah yeah yeah Faith Like yep Faith even

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as small as a mustard seed so yeah there you go we got that part down we did nice job thank you for checking that out oh

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my pleasure we got start fact checking so but I was thinking about it too in the in the context of

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in our lives um well I would dare say today especially in our culture um there

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is a ton of information out there I was I was having a discussion the other day with an individual what what what do

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kids you know need to learn and you know and in reality you

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know memorizing history right no offense it doesn't really matter I'm not saying

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history teaching doesn't matter don't get me wrong there but you know all the information if you want to know what the

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Gettysburg Address says you can well if you want to know what whatever that

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verse was where Matthew Matthew would you like to guess on that you're pretty good at these number this is numbers at

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this point you're good with numbers well it's going to be a guess I'm going to go up high like 19 close yeah go go down to

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17 okay all right verse uh 24 20 ah okay

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you're 19 and 17 wait you said yeah whatever

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you're close yeah well but either way I just I that's that's where I at but um

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we were having this conversation about what kids need to know yeah what go

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ahead you know a lot of that uh Paradigm of how teaching works and what we learn

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certainly was created way before the internet was a thing right so there's this idea that like we have a limited

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time on earth 100 years Max and you know we want to try and you know carry

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everything that's been C brought till now into the Next Generation and it's on you you know and it's on you to do it to

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your kids and like kind of that informational carry on of course books and all that you know but I'm just

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saying it's like so much of that knowledge is like what you learned in school is what you're going to have with

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you for your life sure like but like you're saying what do they have to learn now and and I feel like there's

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certainly things they have to learn now but they are way more principal

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oriented right yeah so that when you find the stuff on Google you know how to translate it you know using principles

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and um I don't know that we've necessarily come around to Shifting the

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way we do education no I hear you yeah and this this happened to be a homeschooler that I was you know

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homeschooling parent that I happen to be talking to so you know it's just you know in this age you know as far as

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having so much information available you know it's it it can be

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it's almost like a redefining like we talked about cursive handwriting oh yeah

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you know it's like you know people that do that well you know are still

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respected but at the same time it's like is that something that we need to be teaching yeah in in our like a core part

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of yeah and so that that's it's it's kind of where it came from but as I was

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thinking about that I was thinking about it in u the context of all the information all the things that we hear

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you know or see in the process of a day and we can hear all that and we can

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even think about all that but the process becomes it's not until

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our you know the lyic system of our brain says yeah I believe the lower back

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part of the brain or yeah I know it's limic system but you know it's not until

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the limic system of our brain says I believe this that it actually becomes a

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transformative truth yeah and I was thinking about that in the context of

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Faith you know that how important it is to believe that you know God is acting

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or willing to act on our behalf based on our ability to say okay there's no way I

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can do this in my own strength and I think about you know how many things

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there are that we desire to do and yet I

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tend to do that at times in My Own Strength versus uh that wrestling in

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such a way that says okay yeah and I'm I'm actually I can remember part of my

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faith um I can remember uh yeah we were we were Chris

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and I were looking for housing in New York state and we were really it was at

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the top of the market and it was like you know we were 2007 or

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something um no it would have been like uh 2003 maybe yeah but it was definitely

12:49
the height of the market where we were at and I can remember you know we we were looking for places and it just

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seemed like you know we were half the spend a ton of money you know just to

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find something that we'd tear down and you know remodel yeah and we were and it's like and I can remember I was

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listening to uh Ron hutchcraft as I was heading to work it was a real foggy morning about 6:30 in the morning and it

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was just you know is that pre podcast oh far pre podcast yeah

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far I definitely freed this podcast but like you say 2003 yeah so you you can

13:29
bring the podcast history up me up to date in podcast history but I would say that was pre- podcasting pre explosion

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of podcasting certainly sure yeah but no I'm curious yeah but I can I can

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remember the year R you know and uh he brought up the I believe it's in Hebrews

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he talked about you know without faith it is impossible to you

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know without faith it is impossible to please God thank you I thought for some

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reason it was coming to without faith it's impossible to trust shout to it's please God exactly but I was thinking

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about and it and it in that moment it was like God gave me

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the ability to say okay you can you can go forward and you can build your own

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house and it just began a process of finding property and you know and just

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began a journey of basically saying okay yeah you're you're one person but yet

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because of who God is he just there was just multiple times that was just a huge

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faith-building opportunity for me and Chris I would say because there was just time after time

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when it's like there was stuff that needed to be done and and people showed

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up you know and it was like each time it was like okay God you you yeah yeah I'm

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trusting you in this process I can I can remember and maybe I've shared it but it's a it's still a I had a good friend

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his name was Rick and uh he uh I was we were at the point where we were going

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away for a wedding on a weekend and it's like this the roofing this is a roofing did I have I told you this

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story maybe I I think on this podcast have I but I think it's it's Theory you

15:31
should share the whole story inex of Faith yeah cuz that this was this was like a faith step for me that I just I

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just so remember and I I apologize listen if I've shared it share it before yeah well like I say it's a good one but

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it it was to the point that um we were going away uh for a wedding and I had

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you know lined up everything to be able to get shingles on the roof before we you know went away and it was to the

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point it I had the boom truck lined up and everything you know and I I get this call about

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7:00 it's like no boom truck's down we can't we can't get you shingles I mean

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we could we could probably put it on a truck and bring it to you but we just have to offload them you know and it was

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like yeah and the idea of the boom truck is they would deliver it but put them

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right on your roof right on the roof yep two stories in the air they' just be able to you know put all put them all

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right up there yeah which kind of is the difference between one person maybe being able to do it or like yeah in

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other words I was I was good as long as they were on the roof but I didn't really want to spend my entire day

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hiking up a ladder two stories with shingles over here exactly nuts and it

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was like okay okay it is what it is you know I'm not me me getting mad you know isn't

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going to change anything and then it was so it was uh it was interesting I was just kind of sitting there and thinking

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about it and okay what's my next step and my friend Rick you know who said who

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who basically decided that morning that he had an open Friday and he'd come up

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and help me put shingles on the roof cuz it was something you know he knew MH and

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he comes rumbling up the the driveway in his roll back you know and it's you know

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rollback is a thing that picks up cars he did auto body so you he had this roll back and he came rumbling up the

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driveway and I said you know it's like I was lamenting you know to him about my

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Ser he says well he says I was thinking about bringing the Mustang this morning but you know I brought truck there's no

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reason we can't go pick up those shingles and we'll put them up on the front of the roll back and we can lift

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the roll back up and we'll be right at the level of your front porch and we'll start and we can do the front porch and

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you know and it was like yeah and it was just it was just God that was a you know

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a God moment that he provided and thanks for not bringing the Mustang Rick you remember the bullet the bullet

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Mustang from uh the the movie years ago uh he had one of those bullet now the

18:15
bullet what what movie it was it was it was specific oh now you're asking me to uh oh shucks remember we're

18:23
weing y people are uh people are screaming into the microphone again and

18:29
there's it was a it was a cop show early on and there was a oh you can you can look I'm looking I'm trying to see if

18:36
Steve McQueen yes exactly that's that was the that was the yeah nice car you

18:42
should Google it like I did you you'll appreciate Beauty who's the who's the

18:47
comedian and Father of the Bride he's a Steve too oh Steve Steve Martin Steve

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that was the only part that was that was the only it's like I knew Steve Steve Steve Steve but it was Steve Martin it

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wasn't Steve Martin if Steve McQueen Steve M but he had you know so that was his choice yeah that was his choice and

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he brought the roll back and it was just and it was really yeah it was a faith building step for me and then granted

19:10
there's there's been a lot of opportunities where I've been able to

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see God move even even with my limited yeah less than mustard mustard

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SE sides faith I mean yeah same just like even yesterday yeah well some

19:33
similar adjacent story is that we're you know adding a little addition to our house and um you know it's been waiting

19:40
on some inspections sure and you know the person that's been doing the inspection for the city seems to me that

19:48
he's sort of a stickler right okay and so you know I was being prefaced about here's what we need to make sure we tell

19:54
them all this kind stuff well in my mind this is where my face was okay well

20:01
he'll come he'll you know he won't pass it we'll have a few things we have to do and then I got to wait another week for

20:07
all the cards to align for him to come back you know sure whatever and just that's where I was just you know what

20:13
this is what it's going to be this is what it's been you know kind of doubt like no faith yeah yeah and uh in in my

20:20
mind I was like this guy he's you know this I had his name in my mind I haven't met him I'm like he's going to come have

20:26
this conversation I'm not going to Vibe yeah he's he's going to fail us well

20:31
guess what uh he didn't come he was sick oh wow so this really awesome nice older

20:37
gentleman sure came and we had a good old little conversation sure and you

20:43
know he's about to leave said well there's nothing else to do but to Pass and Pass there was two he had to check

20:49
you know sure and I was like well that's great you yeah and in my mind there was

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no this is this is kind of me the thing about faith there was no pathway in my

21:00
brain to a different person showing up today or yesterday there was there was only this one person and I was pretty

21:09
sure I knew what he was going to do based on you know who knows what I'm not trying to um you know there was no faith

21:15
to say he might not do that I just had this feeling he would you know sure well

21:20
guess what it wasn't him like that's kind of the difference that faith can have you know whether you have faith or

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not there's a vast world of opportunities out there

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that we in our limited Vision cannot see mhm right yeah and it's like Peter on

21:40
the waves like yeah you know he saw Jesus walking in the water he's like oh cool that's that's the thing we can do I

21:45
didn't know that let's try it he got out started walking to Jesus and he goes wait a second we're not supposed to be able to do this right and started

21:52
looking at the waves and recognizing the reality of what he just stepped into he started to sink you know yeah and it's I

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think so often we our eyes right are on the wrong thing yes

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and Faith operates best when our eyes are focused on the right thing sure

22:13
right yeah which is the creator of possibilities not even the possibilities

22:18
it's not about having faith oh maybe another inspector will come up right yeah but instead having the faith in the

22:24
creator of possibilities to say I don't know but you do you know yeah and faith is the substance of things

22:32
hoped for right sure so like if I hope that this a different inspector will

22:37
come that's not the same thing as having faith and then and then the substance of that hope coming through right of like

22:44
sure you know what I'm saying yeah I do yeah CU we can hope for a lot of things but there's no faith attached to it yeah

22:52
there's no substance yeah right and I and I think that's at times what can be

22:58
a disappointment yeah in in our faith you know when what we hoped for yes in who

23:08
we are or disappointment yeah disappointment can set in yep because

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our it's not true Faith right it's like a crafting of a vision yeah on our side

23:20
and it does when it doesn't align with that it feels like our faith is not being honored sure or like you know the

23:28
things we read about faith isn't true for me because that fell through yeah

23:33
when if your faith was in that thing not falling through then you know I guess we're not really talking about faith

23:39
right now are we you know yeah right no definitely and I and I think I think about that in so many ways too in the

23:47
context of you know um I was having a having a conversation with a individual

23:54
actually a couple the other day on uh you know like Faith healing and you know and that ability to be able

24:01
to say to you know well if you have enough Faith yeah you know that context

24:07
of and I think that's what makes it complex is at times we can have what I

24:14
would consider faith in God to come through in a specific way according to

24:20
my desire and yet it may not happen that way and you know and I think at that

24:27
point we can def ly say okay you know what is it about this faith and I think that's the part for me that I can

24:33
honestly admit at times can be confusing you know I have a I have a wholehearted

24:39
and I would even call it sincere you know I'll call it an

24:45
expectation maybe a hope a desire yeah a desire and it's like but I also think

24:52
that faith is that part to be able to say okay even when my desire didn't come

24:58
through in my time frame mhm you know my faith is still that God is love he's

25:06
just you know and he understands and he's he's got something better yeah yeah

25:13
and again if your faith is in the creator of possibilities instead of the possibilities yes when this possibility

25:20
falls through it means nothing to the final outcome yeah right because I know

25:25
you're the creator of possibilities so if it's not not that one you know like you said there's something better and

25:31
that's I only want the better thing anyway so you know what I mean yeah and being able to recognize there can be

25:39
purpose in my disappointment yep because it it helps me under and I and I think

25:46
that can be a that that can be a difficult thing you know for us to accept sometimes in our

25:53
humanness MH and it's just and I it's for me I think what does uh build up or

26:04
boister my my faith to a certain degree is that ability to look back and

26:10
recognize okay yeah I've felt this before and yet despite this God Has Come

26:19
Through Time and Time and Time Again in such a way that you know faith is a real

26:26
thing yes and you know and I and I guess that's where that's where you know the

26:31
stories we share and I'm you know even in in this morning you know it's like there's a part of me that's you know

26:38
thinking about different people who I know you know listen and I'm thinking about them in in the context of their

26:45
own faith Journeys and you know it's my desire or I think it's our desire even

26:51
though we hadn't necessarily talked about that we want to encourage each other you know or others in that Faith

26:59
Journey for themselves and you know just just reflecting back on that yeah

27:07
yeah yeah this is you know back to both of our stories

27:13
mhm there's something about um again there's a lot of times the

27:18
disappointment happens because we put our Our Hope in in something that doesn't come through right sure but

27:26
there's also a lot of times where the disappointment is followed with a oh you

27:31
know yeah like in both of our situations it's we had this certain version of what it was supposed to be sure right and

27:39
then the disappointment comes it kind of goes H yeah just throw it on the pile of

27:44
disappointments like just another time it didn't you know I hate to say God let me down so I'm not going to say it but

27:51
we'll just put it over in that pile yeah we'll put it in that file yeah exactly yeah exactly and then uh you

27:59
know like again in both those situations it happened completely in a way that I

28:06
would say that uh was personal yes personal curation of reality for us to

28:13
recognize God's goodness yes right like you said I could have brought the bullet

28:18
yeah Steve McQueen could have you know driven me here but instead brought the roll back which is a new term to me

28:25
that's oh like yeah but you know just it's so so specific yep you know um and

28:31
I think about that it's interesting to me you know uh I I guess when when you

28:37
were saying opportunities you know God of the opportunities the the interesting

28:43
part for me in that is it's not typically just the fact that the boom truck broke down you know what I'm

28:50
saying it's you know because I had my plan but I stop and think about that in

28:55
a moment and it's like how often often actually God chooses other people to

29:03
show up at the right time you know that it's it's the it's his ability to

29:09
orchestrate you know and have people not not just and granted we think we when we

29:16
think of I think when we tend to think of faith we think of you know part in the Red Sea and you know and building an

29:23
arc and and stuff like that but I also think about you know how many how many

29:30
people have shown up for me granted I'm not sure too many people showed up for

29:36
Noah to help him build the art based on the story you know it's kind of probably him and his family because it sounds

29:42
like everybody else was kind of you know jering him on in the process not

29:47
cheering him but you know jering him in the process and I you know so I I can't

29:52
say that people showed up for him but yeah and then and then and then again

29:57
there's something to be said if God shows up M you don't need any other people no yeah that's I but yeah it's

30:05
just thinking about that in the context of how often you know someone sends the the the message

30:14
at the right time or you know shows up kind of un unplanned un unannounced and

30:21
says you know I just thought you might need this or something you know and that's that's another

30:29
aspect you know that it just helps build a faith then in a God who cares about

30:34
where we're at and what's going on in our lives and it's personal and yeah yeah I think it definitely adds to the

30:41
personal nature of the interaction and just because I mean I guess

30:48
interestingly enough it feels obvious that he can move mountains it feels not

30:53
obvious that he can make you know Rick show up with this roll back

30:58
like that seems more difficult you know I don't know or like less likely than

31:03
just move the mountain like fix the boom truck like you can do that I mean but you bringing Rick over here in his roll

31:10
back I mean yeah you know when was that going to be in your mind of a prayer right like yeah I don't know I think

31:16
it's much easier for us to Envision you know the the reality or ability of you

31:22
know physical things to change than it is to think about people changing or people coming through um maybe it's

31:30
interesting that you say it that way because I would have thought about it in the opposite direction really not just because this is polarizing topics on no

31:37
it is to town but I think for me it is how often

31:44
you see people cool you know and it's like and I and I think from my

31:51
perspective um I guess I'm jaded Mark well I think so often it is about the

31:58
mountain being moved by God Gathering his people together in a unified way yeah and I was think you

32:05
know you know how how how much was your faith impacted by you know when you know

32:14
there's a a lot of people praying for Jewel right when she goes through an

32:19
operation yeah you know yeah and I think you know that's part of the for me at

32:25
times that's easier to see how people God uses people in such a way you know

32:33
then he does okay God go ahead and build this building you know my faith could see that the building could be built but

32:41
yet it's going to be the interactions it's the relationships it's the people

32:46
that he orchestrates and I guess that for me I've seen that more so than you

32:53
know the mountains just being moved because I said so yeah

32:58
yeah I haven't I haven't I haven't thrown too many mountains into the sea you know just a

33:06
few none would actually be the correct count but fact since we're fact checking but you know and and I guess

33:13
that's how that is how I see it is you know uh and I and I I'll be honest too I

33:19
think of you know so often when I think of our listeners I think what brings

33:26
them to mind and especially a topic like this are shared moments of you know

33:33
helping create helping fulfill a vision and I see those individuals

33:41
as provisioned by God for that Faith to see something happen MH you know and I

33:48
guess I guess I just see how you know even even our process of moving to North

33:56
Carolina you know so much of that was orchestrated through a you know a faith

34:02
you know that Chris and I shared that even though we had built that house you

34:08
know we had that um perspective that that Jonah had when he was following

34:15
when he was you know kind of sinking and the he talks about the seaweed being wrapped around his neck and he talked

34:20
about I have exchanged uh worthless

34:26
Idols I've sought basically I've sought worthless Idols in exchange for the

34:31
blessings of God you know and that's what his thought was kind of he was

34:37
lowering down through the water and that that was really you know big for Chris and I and it was it was funny because

34:43
God brought that verse to us kind of separately wow and even you know the the

34:48
whole you know it's impossible to please God without faith you know it's like okay this is something we need to do

34:56
we're not sure exactly why but this is this is part of our journey and you know

35:02
we're we're feeling led to be a part of this church plant you know in in Wilmington you know so I think you know

35:10
I when I when I think about faith I tend to think about other people who have joined in that journey

35:19
and you know helped create that Faith step for me and

35:27
recognizing that you know yes like I said God God is sufficient but just by

35:34
himself but yet he doesn't necessarily always do that that way in my life he

35:40
might know that I just need other people alongside yeah you know cuz I'm yeah

35:46
well part of the faith Journey for for any any believer whatever is

35:52
understanding that God knows what you need you know and so I think the the

35:57
thing too that one should know about God is that he usually operates on the long

36:03
game sure right and so so often our prayers are very short game focused and

36:10
you know like we're human and so we have a limited Vision sure um help me win the

36:16
lottery I can pay off my DBT yeah exactly yeah exactly and you know and a

36:21
lot of our prayers are day-to-day and they should be this is not about how we should you know what not about us I

36:28
guess but it is about his answers often reflect his long-term love for us and

36:34
like I say the long game and

36:41
so that was that was a wisdom scratch if you heard it there from Justin scratching his

36:48
chin it's another sound effect little that's right wow H man yeah I've I've often had

36:59
a coners conversations I want to say recently in the last couple years with people about struggles and understanding

37:07
in relational struggles and understanding that the solution you want to instantly fix this may not align with

37:14
the solution you want for this person to be in your life in 20 years sure right

37:20
sure and so you know it's like the I want this person to behave so I'm going

37:25
to yell right and I'll get get them in line but that's not that doesn't align

37:31
with a long-term relational view that says in 20 years that person's going to come to me for wisdom or advice or

37:36
whatever and so you know I've had a lot of those conversations and I guess it makes me think about hm I wonder if

37:43
that's what my good father is doing you know where it's like I know you want this but it doesn't align with the

37:50
long-term you know yeah game the long-term Vision that I have for you you

37:55
know and I have plans for you plans to Prosper you not to harm you a plan of vision and hope and it doesn't include

38:02
you know instantly fixing the behavior of your child or whatever you whatever it is right yeah and um so I think a lot

38:09
of times we're disappointed because we didn't get our way right in the moment

38:15
and our good father says no that's not that's not the best for you yeah you

38:20
know what's best is that you go through this and in 10 years you'll remember this moment and that's you know like and

38:28
I think it's easy to forget that until the fruition of those things in 10 years

38:34
yeah like a lot of our faith is you know the Bible talks about faith being like a seed a lot right it doesn't often talk

38:41
about you know like it talks a lot about plant you know Faith being like seeds thrown and some some get caught in Thorn

38:49
some you know and some grow or whatever doesn't often talk about the what that Faith becomes when it becomes a tree or

38:55
plant or whatever but I do think that's when that happens when the faith is

39:01
fulfilled yeah right in in its fruition you you're able to look back

39:06
and look at those seed beginnings and go well make sense you know and kind of see

39:11
the progression of of that Faith but that takes the growth of a season right of several

39:18
seasons a lot of times to see that and I think that's um why I've often said

39:25
faith gets easier as you you know it's interesting cuz it doesn't

39:30
necessarily cuz I feel like it's kind of like playing Mario right like every level gets a little bit harder as you

39:36
get better at the thing and so it gets a little harder I feel like a little bit Faith's like that cuz the more you

39:42
believe the more you're challenged to believe more I don't know yeah um but I do think you have enough you know you're

39:50
a tree now and you have your trunk and your branches and the fruit hanging out on the limbs as proof yeah of the growth

39:57
process and of his good stewardship of your faith you know yeah of of your life

40:03
through faith and you can't deny that anymore the trunk is there right the

40:08
roots are there right and he planted you know he like I said 10 years ago he said

40:13
no so that root could grow a little deeper sure right yeah and in that

40:19
moment it felt like you're just trying to kill me yeah I'm not going to make it through this winter season you know if

40:24
you don't do this thing it's like no no no you don't understand deeper Roots mean you will make it through this

40:29
season and the next one and the you know yeah I'm going to that analogy I'm just going to keep stretching it till break

40:35
so probably should stop there but I think you get the idea yeah and I'm not

40:40
as I was thinking about or listening to what you're saying I think I think age

40:46
age can be a factor faith and wisdom may be kind of connected together and yet

40:53
I'm as still on that other end of the the the Spectrum would be you know God

40:59
saying childlikeness you know and I think that childlikeness maybe even with

41:05
my age is the ability to recognize a dependence and I think you know that

41:11
that's that's powerful where our faith is concerned because I think for me the

41:17
hardest things to have faith about are the things that are within my wheelhouse

41:23
or within my abilities to do those those would be the areas that I would

41:29
typically have the most struggles with my faith because there's a part of me that says well I can do that right and

41:36
should yeah and and at that point it's like okay God I'm not sure I need you I

41:41
need you over here and I need you over there but I'm not sure I need you right here and that's kind of well I need you

41:48
over I don't need you here because I need you over there like if I ask you to

41:53
help here then I won't you know you won't be available for that help cuz you're you're you're kind of limited by

41:59
my you know circumstances yeah that's exactly where it comes back to you know it's like we see this Dynamic that God

42:06
needs our help or I should say I see this Dynamic where you know God needs me

42:11
to do this part so that he can have the energy to come through on the other parts and it's like no Mark that's not

42:18
that's not what faith is and it's just interesting to have that kind of conversation to uh as we discuss Faith

42:26
so as you think about that what what would you

42:33
say has been one of your most profound Faith growing experiences this is how I

42:40
see it moment always pulling out the Deep questions on the Fly no it's not on

42:45
the Fly we're three4 of the way into this come on now you should have known this was

42:50
coming repeat the question was your most profound faith building experience one

42:56
of them I I realized you know as old as you are there's a number of them but if

43:03
you were to stop and I'm saying you've had a number of

43:09
them you're right you're not 40 exactly exactly exactly 40 you know if you're if

43:14
you're using that 10year analogy you have at least you know at least three at least at least three yeah

43:22
true all right what do you got one what do I have I'm going to think

43:28
yeah I would I would definitely say you know building the house like I shared

43:34
was definitely one of the one of the first ones if I'm if I'm going with a

43:39
10-year model um I well I would I would actually

43:45
uh I would actually um have to go back probably three years before that and um

43:54
I can remember we uh Chris was pregnant with John and those those dog gone uh test

44:05
that you do you know that you know I'm I say dogon in the sense that you know

44:11
it's a wonderful thing to be able to know if there's a health issue with your

44:17
child yep okay but I can uh I can remember a long weekend and I don't mean

44:23
long and like a Labor Day weekend I can remember going for a

44:29
test um to have you know something red and the concern with

44:38
John was that um however your spinal column is Dev developed there's there's

44:44
there's two um Pathways and um kids who have

44:53
Downs um kind of had develop a third path pathway you know it's not just a

45:00
it's it's not just two directions and um I can remember John was our first child

45:05
of course and you know you learn a little more as you go through that process each child kind of gives you a

45:12
little more and I can remember going with Chris and it was expressed to us

45:18
that based on that um what is it what is it the ultrasound there you go based on

45:23
the ultrasound um they were concerned about John having that third third line and it

45:31
was a Friday you know when we did the ultrasound and someone you know of course mentioned that concern to us and

45:38
I can remember going home and it's like okay you know Chris and I both it wasn't me it was you know Chris and I both and

45:45
it was uh it was to the point of okay God you know you know you know exactly

45:52
what the circumstances are you know exactly you know who this uh who this

45:57
person you know this child is going to be and I can just remember that being

46:02
such a long weekend saying okay we're going to trust you with this process either way you know and sure enough you

46:09
know we were able to but that was a long weekend yes you know carrying that I

46:14
just remember carrying that as I remember carrying it as much or as

46:21
little as I could you know based on our faith that okay you're you're the god of

46:29
it all and I can remember you know we definitely saw the doctor you know as

46:34
soon as we could that following weekend or that following week after the weekend and it was like yeah I see where they're

46:41
coming from but this is also a part of a developmental process you know and all

46:46
those things and you know by God's grace you know short of a a long a long uh

46:53
labor and delivery you know John came out fine M you know but I can just

46:58
remember he would have either way what's that I was just thinking about yeah he would have he would have

47:05
came out either way fine fine either way I I was thinking about parents of

47:11
children yes thank or whatever and I think you know they would listen to this

47:17
and they would um be a be able to empathize with that long weekend right um but recognize

47:25
a life of that you don't have that they have yes as a result of having a child with downs

47:32
and the blessings that it brings and Y I think that's what likely your prayers and wrestling were about like I know

47:40
what whichever path yeah is going to be good yeah but one is really hard to

47:46
Envision being able to live through all right one is definitely more difficult

47:52
in the context of my desires or expectations and we all of course desire

47:58
Children Health you know healthy children and you know yeah but yeah yeah I can see how

48:04
that would be yeah that was that was definitely one you know and then house and then you know the move and you know

48:11
and I'd say you know even where we're at now you know just kind of moving and and

48:17
redoing and what what what Sparrow's rest may be you know I I I believe that's kind of right now is probably and

48:25
maybe that's that's why the topic kind of comes to mind because the the faith step is

48:31
important and I recognizing you know yeah there's people in the journey with us there's you know and it's it's a

48:38
process yeah and I think you know things that are worth doing take Faith like you

48:46
were you know alluding to you know building a building a tree or I should say growing a tree you

48:53
know growing a tree takes time it takes faith and yet you know God does it all

49:00
the time mhm without our without our help you know forests have been of

49:05
course planted but you know they're not all just designed and I yeah yeah do you

49:14
did was was that sufficient time yeah yeah I mean I definitely thought of several things um you know you mentioned

49:21
moving to North Carolina we moved to North Carolina in 2006 but I can honestly tell you the

49:28
faith of that move was like a child it was easy faith it was like yeah we

49:33
should do that first year right after we were married and for both of us it was

49:39
just one of those things that God made it easy in our minds it wasn't like a wrestling or this seems wrong it's like

49:46
no let's do it let's sure so that's like it's interesting how sometimes you get

49:52
those and sometimes you get the wrestling you know what I mean um I can say one of the things that has you know

50:01
built my faith in in a pretty intense way in the last decade would be

50:06
celebrate recovery and um kind of the in and out of leadership there and and

50:12
different aspects of that and you know for several years you know like that I

50:18
was leading that program and it required just weekly wrestling faith of

50:24
like um you know it it's all a volunteer-based organization it's it's

50:30
it's and so every day it was okay what's my part today sure you know and you know

50:38
problems would come and go and okay what's my part to solve this and you know it wasn't like I don't know it's

50:45
just like an active faith that was required so often of just praying

50:53
through and going okay I'm going to you know basically act on what I believe you're saying and move forward and

50:59
sometimes it would turn out well and sometimes it wouldn't and I would still have to say but I trust that's what you

51:05
wanted to happen here because you know I definitely prayed about it had you know that Faith the the active working daily

51:13
faith that just says okay commit and go commit and go you know what I mean MH

51:19
and I feel like that's a there's

51:24
not I I feel like there are certain circumstances in life that require that

51:30
kind of daily Act of Faith but but not all and I feel like

51:37
um how would you describe the difference how what would the difference be what what things would need that

51:44
daily well I mean I could be wrong in the sense that probably should live that

51:49
way every day so maybe maybe that's a better way to put it I think there are things in life that require that of you

51:56
other things that don't and therefore we you I don't necessarily act in that way

52:02
but probably should have that exact same thing does that make sense yeah I think it makes sense I was thinking I was

52:08
actually thinking again of uh of Chris's mom you know and after her dad you know after Chris's dad passed away and I

52:15
think you know um sometimes and I think of you know people people in depression

52:20
kind of come to mind even you know the next thing you know doing the next thing

52:27
what is the next thing you need to be able to do and I think that in

52:32
itself is to a great degree a step of Faith yeah because you know I I can feel

52:40
overwhelmed I can feel you know disappointed and yet if I just stay

52:48
there you know it's not necessarily healthy long term yeah but if I continue

52:55
to you know take each step and do the next thing you

53:01
know it it builds a a faith that there there's more and God's not done here

53:08
just because you know circumstances and and granted some of those circumstances

53:13
that our listeners you know are facing or have faced are huge don't get me

53:18
wrong there I don't want to make a light of that but I think there and and there is something to be said for you know being

53:25
able to G you know in that process but even that I believe you know is okay what is my next thing do I need to

53:33
just allow that emotion to come and to go and then when it is done I I do my

53:40
next thing I connect with other people like you know and I and I guess that's where my mind went in that

53:47
process when when you think about you know okay sometimes it is about the daily

53:53
aspect for some people that might be you know getting out of bed mhm you know cuz

53:59
I believe that's a that's a tremendous Faith step yeah you know depending on where I'm at we've you know I think in

54:06
in in this time you know we've talked about you know the big maybe in some ways from my perspective I don't want to

54:13
use the word bigger in a sense of you know more important but yet you know

54:18
we've talked about those those larger movements as we see it but I think you

54:23
know there is a some some aspect of being able to do just the step whatever

54:30
the step is recognizing that is a faith step yep

54:36
what's interesting is you know it you with this uh struggle that you're referring

54:43
to like some steps of Faith are huge right yeah it would seem yeah yes in our

54:51
humanness yeah like when man walked on the moon that first step you it's like whoa that kind

54:57
and uh but other thing other times like in times of depression or Mourning or whatever it's like you're wearing you

55:04
know 50 lb shoes or you know 100 lb shoes and taking those steps yep is

55:10
requires everything of you to get that 2in step right sure yep and I think

55:16
agreed they both require the same faith of yes take the step you know um and I

55:24
think I don't know just think about what you're just sharing I think it's hard a lot of times for people outside to see

55:31
the Tiny Steps and going what's why you know what's so hard or whatever and they don't see the 80 lb shoes you know what

55:38
I mean yeah um in the deliberate effort and thought and intention that went into

55:44
each step where they're just like I'm just walking over here I don't know why you're thinking about walking so much

55:49
just walk you know exactly I don't know that's a that's an interesting Paradigm but it require yeah I mean yeah it

55:56
requires I would say an intense amount of Faith to accomplish that just like it does to

56:02
move mountains as as we started the conversation with and yeah you know and I think it is that that context of

56:10
sometimes the things that I'm good at you know or the things that I can do well I don't think about as being Faith

56:18
but yet other people you know who experience a completely different you

56:24
know dynamic of life you know doing that same thing can be

56:29
huge you know in a in a context of the faith it takes or you know so yeah and I

56:37
think uh I guess in some ways my uh um thinking on this topic as far as the

56:44
faith goes is it is a desire to you know have our listeners think about that

56:52
aspect for just a moment and being able to recognize and maybe even in a difficult moment the ability to look

56:59
back and recognize God's faithfulness you know whether whether you're in a new

57:04
location that you never thought you'd see you know whether you know you have a child who's dealing with a difficult you

57:11
know you're in a difficult life cycle stage you know and and just being able

57:17
to recognize okay yeah faith is important in that process because I

57:24
think you know we can tend to look at our kids you know with that snapshot thinking that says okay my kid just did

57:32
this they're going to end up there yep and it's not a positive Viewpoint yes

57:37
but yet at the same time you know five years down the road 10 years down the

57:42
road makes a wicked difference yes and you know and I and I guess that's my

57:47
that's my hope that's the hope that I desire to convey you know through faith

57:53
trusting that you know if if if God has called you led you you know there's a

58:00
purpose in it and it's going to be good you know by the time it's all said and

58:06
done but in the middle of it you know and that's where I guess that's where I'm at I want to be able to encourage

58:12
people who are in the beginning of you know a step in the in the middle of a step to be able to reflect back and look

58:20
and think about it in such a way that grows your faith and I guess that's where I'm at I don't want it just to be

58:25
a Jud judgmental thing you know where you know where it comes it is about us and what God has done but at the same

58:32
time it is a desire to share that hope to share that faith in such a way to

58:37
encourage others encourage each you you and I encourage one another and yet those who listen might also be

58:44
encouraged in such a way that says yeah I hear where you're coming from and I

58:49
have those I have those aspects in my life too and maybe even if I if I don't

58:54
have that aspect of relationship you know to be able to say okay yeah maybe I

59:01
need to have some conversations about faith and what it looks like to you know have faith in a in a good father yeah

59:08
you know who has a who has a loving son who desires to have relationship with us

59:14
in in a faith filled manner that says okay I desire to know you and I want

59:21
relationship with youh and you know this is the opportunity for you and I the

59:26
creator of possibilities yes yes yeah I

59:31
uh there's a song lyric that came to mind as you shared that if the story

59:37
isn't good then the story isn't over you know sure makes me think of that yeah

59:44
endgame God the long long game god um it's a song by Corey Asbury he called it

59:49
my father's house so if you want to yeah check it out and listen to it you should I thought you were going to sing it for us for a moment no

59:57
uh but yeah I think that's a good place to wrap it up wrap it up well thanks for

1:00:02
sharing Justin yeah thank you Mark yeah this is how we see

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