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[Music]

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good morning sir good morning Mark how are you I'm good I'm glad to hear it our

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traditional sign on good morning good morning yeah those that are not on a

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morning time it's still Pleasant to hear good morning isn't it it's just a nice

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cheery happy yeah yeah I think we should always say good morning it's a good way to gree

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someone it in the midst of a conversation to the point of saying how are you yeah yeah but it's a little more

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cheery and a little less expectant and it's even raining this morning it is raining but you know what still a good

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morning yeah it is I have the window open hopefully they can't hear them well

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a few Birds won't hurt a few Birds won't hurt Birds sneak into a lot of episodes they have a lot to say it's all about if

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you could decode what they're saying it's likely it's more intelligent than what I'm saying I won't speak for

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Mark it's all it's all about location yeah know like real estate location

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location location and we just happen to be located near some birds birds yeah and birds happen to be located near us

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so yes it's good it is [Music]

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good welcome to how I see it with me Mark Pratt and Justin Sternberg this is

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a podcast that works to countercultural polarization through

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thoughtful [Music] conversations we like birds We Like Rain

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yeah and we like the morning thus we are here not too many

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people I want to be here with us at 6:15 in the morning but although we haven't

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had anyone turn us down not well we have adjusted times yes for people don't tell

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people that well that's true this is when we do this is when a podcast needs to be

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recorded that's right no this this th thus Let It Be written thus let it be

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done is it how's that go this is just what works good for us yeah yeah and so it shall be so good morning yes and you

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as well good morning to talk about some political subjects ooh I'm all for political subjects mhm

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what' you have in mind well one of the topics we discussed discussing discussed discussed pre-

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discussed pre- discussed the discussion of discussing it is uh gun control ah

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yes I thought that would be a great one to talk about because um I think I've shot a

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gun twice in my life two different occurrences one in the last two months

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so wow if I may ask and I realized for me I because I realize shooting can be

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you know guns can be a personal thing it's not that everybody wants to admit

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or share you know along that line and I respect that privacy but what did you

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shoot if I may ask um it was some handgun okay I don't remember what it

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was and you just were basically shooting targets blinking can wonderful yeah I

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hit it nice job now I don't ask how close I was well I want to know how it

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felt to hit the can it was cool yeah but it you know I wouldn't I wouldn't I

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wouldn't score it as high as like a nice throw in frisbee to someone in the end zone sure that's much better

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sure and but I'm I'm curious cuz I from my perspective I have been that person

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who has introduced a number of people oh two two Shooting Sports I'll call

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it and uh and I think I've I've watched or

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perceived what was initially a fear M of

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guns to I've watched that transition from a fear of guns you know to a an

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enjoyment of shooting MH the ability to say oh well this is kind of fun you know

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and there's a sense of accomplishment you know and and that's and that's where

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I think that's where so much of my perspective comes from yeah so should I

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go should we Dive Right In of course why not why is that fun worth

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all the pain and Agony and sadness and

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destruction and death and right that comes with what at least

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what we read right what we hear what we see that comes with guns right um school

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shootings and you know mass shootings and you know murder suicides and I mean

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you know yeah you we could go on and on and on and on and on so and I appreciate

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that question I'm going right to the polarizing thing of saying um cuz I I don't really I think

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part of my thing here is like I'm very in un indoctrinated

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as to uh the enjoyment of guns and the whole culture but I'm also not anti-guns

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I'm pretty neutral but this is one a very very very very polarizing topic for

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so many reasons so that I hit you with the hardest question right well that's okay I'm good with that a good morning

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yeah it is still a good morning and I'm thinking I I like your use of the word

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indoctrination um cuz I'll I I'll I'm honestly

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reflecting on that am I a person who has been

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indoctrinated or has my experience been very much positive and I've grown up

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with um mentors if you will who

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hunted who shot for who who hunted and and and did you know Shooting Sports in

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such a way that made it appealing for me and and I think you know and I'm not

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skipping the part you know that goes further on but I'm able to recognize too

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I mean and my I'll just tell you the long story short my Sunday school

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teacher growing up you know go was was a marine who was a rifle Smith for 60

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years still is that's cool you know so for me and you know and we've had that

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discussion you know around gun control it's like he's been working with guns

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for 60 years and no gun has ever he's never been injured you know he's never

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he hasn't died he hasn't been mortally wounded he hasn't been shot you know by

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a gun in his shop you follow me and I and I guess that's

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where my background comes from and granted I grew up hunting with my grandfather my father you know those

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kind of things so I'm that's where I'm coming from if you want to call that in an

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indoctrination you're welcome to I wasn't attacking you mark no but I I I like the use of that word but I think in

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some cases that is a part of the polarizing Dynamic when we're not able

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to recognize where someone comes from right and I want to recognize yes um I

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grew up in Rural America you know I didn't grow up in inner city where you

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know the their view I'm and here again

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I'm not trying to be judgmental but a person in my era who grew up in her city

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is going to have a far different view of guns than I do yeah and that they're

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likely depending to have a view that is a little

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more fear based fear-based or even seeing even seeing the hurt that people

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inflict with guns yeah you follow me and and I think that's a very from my

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perspective that becomes very clear that you know when I hear gun control you know

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that's that's what I I have to recognize someone when I hear that

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phrase I recognize someone has been hurt someone has been murdered somebody

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has been you know made to some degree and my heart goes out for those

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individuals my heart goes out for law enforcement you know in that process who

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you know people who are working hard to protect people and I think for me that also

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comes back to a a Second Amendment right that I have to protect myself you know

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the right to keep and bear arms is is is fundamental to me from a American

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standpoint Point mhm and that's where I you know that's that's my view and

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that's how I see things and you know I I recognize you know we can talk death

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rates and percentages you know for that kind of thing but for me it is more

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about that right that I have and I will

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bring it back to guns being very similar to any other

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amoral thing I mean let's be honest we just spoke about money we've you know I don't

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think we've talked about sex directly as a topic right but you know what was

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meant I guess I guess that's where I come all of those things have a tremendous ability to hurt

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people in the wrong hands money has that ability sex has that ability you follow

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me to be able to and granted money we could probably

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argue has as high a rate sex trafficking if we want to go to these extremes we

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can look at you know people hurt MH I I I think about it when when you think

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about it like that there's um just off the top of my not off the top of my head but thinking about it a

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little bit there's about 15 in North Carolina about 15 no around

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1,600 fatalities per 100,000 people with guns

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okay homicides goes to like 8.6 so you know and that that that makes me sad

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because I recognize some of those fatalities are when I even hear of it

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you know people who were hunting together and someone did something

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unsafe and now they have to share that for it would be like a like a teenage

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driver who you know is behind and they they accidentally kill someone mhm and

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you know and I just feel for those people because they have to carry that the rest of their life and you know I

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mean even I just I can just remember you know kids that I grew up with in high school you know accidental deaths and so

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you know I I think of that and uh and it was interesting just thinking about it

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that the um divorce rate is like 2.8 per

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thousand versus um homicide rate 8.6 per

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100,000 you follow me and I think about that hurt that goes along with divorce

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now granted nobody's being murdered in a divorce

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but I still think of it as a most divorces yes yes I suppose some do end

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up in that there's there's a crossover there un diagram where there is some

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crossover between guns and divorce and death homicide and divorce yes there's a

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part where and and and I feel that's you know and I recognize that's not my

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experience and so I don't minimize it but I for me it comes back to there being a

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sin issue and so yes I'm not for there's um

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another statistic 30 people there's um uh drug use drug overdose is a higher

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rate per 100,000 it's 30 people per 100,000 that will die from a drug

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overdose you follow me and and I re and here again I'm put these out here because I'm I want to create a

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comparison mhm um car rates would be like 1,500 so I mean they're pretty um

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not not necessarily similar gun rates are going to be higher well as a total not homicides but and that's where I'm

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at and I don't want to make that seem like I'm blaming anyone because I do believe you know and there's there's

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there's a number of laws already on the books you know there's there's uh

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different organizations um that we can turn to state law ordinances every state is

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different in its gun control law North Carolina has like 61 pages of what you

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can do and what you can't do in a state ordinance document you know and every

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state has their own so I think about it's it's not necessarily that laws

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aren't there and yet is there any law about shooting

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people yes cuz I feel like a lot of people disobey that one exactly you know

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and and unfortunately you know we c um it for me

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we can't I even biblically there was a reason that Jesus came and the laws

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because the laws were insufficient Troy shared it a couple times ago you know we can't legislate

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morality you know and I think for me unfortunately that's where a lot of this

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comes from because I recognized it we don't have from my perspective it's a

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sin problem not a gun problem yeah and and and so that that's kind of how I

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look at it and there's right my turn Mark yeah go for it question or an answer no I got a lot

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of thoughts okay wrote them down so oh wow I was giving you lots of

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lines like the fishing lines that's fair enough but my lines running out you're ready to hook me aren't

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you all right you guys ready we're going to hook Mark yeah go for it no the the first thing that stood out to me in your

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conversation was the cultural difference so that's what you were describing is that your culture embraced guns and the

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enjoyment of them and what it represented in terms of um camaraderie

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sure right and so you know obviously that

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isn't that isn't given in a Pros consist very often but it people totally I think

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underestimate the value of that in the cultures that Embrace guns and shooting and hunting and that whole culture and I

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uh I love hearing about my friends exploits when they go hunting and all these things shooting together and just

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the enjoyment they have shooting together and it's awesome one of those things that I I see as

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culturally being a really cool thing in a certain culture that I have not quite again been indoctrinated to that culture

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sure that that that term I you said is it indoctrination or is it um I forget

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the other phrase but I think it's probably both right it's a little bit of both a little bit of um um but it's

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interesting I want to come back um if if I'm not going too far on my line Le

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you're good um I gave you a little more it's interesting when I think of my culture um and you me you in your

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question you asked about school shootings

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and I'm not meaning to be lwd or or U make light of us of school

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shootings but there was school shootings long before Sandy Hook okay I if I may

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say so in a loose terminology um partook of school

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shooting and what I'm going to say is GNA I'm going to clarify that and I'm

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not making light of it but when I grew up part of this this era this uh we

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actually took our guns to school we were able to take our guns on the bus and I

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was part of a club A Sportsman's Club and we would leave the school at lunchtime to go shoot as a group at

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school so my kids you know just it's like no no

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you're lying not not I mean they believe me but you know to hear someone say you

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know we were able to take our guns to school and shoot at the school basically

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or you know just off the grounds that just seems so foreign but I think you know it's it's

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just a difference and here again looking at the Spectrum

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you know I realized there are actual real school shootings where people die

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Sandy Hook I think was a bigger one because that was where you know young kids were affected and I think that's

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where a lot of our SRO type stuff that we you know have today you know officers

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in school I think that was a turning point you know when it came to schools

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and school shootings you know to have an ele a person go into an elementary

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school and I and here again I'm not minimizing the harm that guns can have

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but I also think there's there from my personal opinion I also think we have a

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mental health issue MH you know yeah so that's that's part of the conversation

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which is well yeah I'm not I'm not meaning

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to divide off here all good I think let me write this down

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how have we switched roles I just I'm just wondering normally I feel like I'm the interviewing person and now I feel

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like we switched roles but this is good this is definitely a again a subject that you're you're passionate about due

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to cultural yes where I am very much on the neutral point although I will say

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I'm not I'm I would say I'm even when it comes to the school shootings I get just

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yeah like I can feel the heat on the back of my neck just thinking about it because I naturally insert my children's

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face into that picture and go I don't care what your argument is Mark y I don't want my child dead yep right and

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so and I think and and that's why I wanted to clarify I'm not making light of school shootings right all I'm not

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implying you I guess I'm just saying that is what the one area where I'm less neutral is like let's let's figure this

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out in a sense because to me every time another school shooting you know there's mass shootings

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and yeah we we can talk about there's so much to talk about but um but when it comes to school shootings I'm like okay

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come on guys we got to figure this out you know what I mean and um but at the same

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time another political tough subject right is abortion and arguably you know

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more children are uh you know dead as a result of that law sure than the lack of

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shooting you know gun laws or whatever no I and along that line I believe in in

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that our our appreciation or valuing of life

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has diminished as well across the board yeah yeah I agree even to the degree

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where suicide is astronomical right now rates because the same reason sure you

21:55
know my life's not worth it your life's not worth it the point that kind of thing and and I think that's

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where in a polarizing topic if I

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[Music] am I I'll say proun you know in that

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whole pro- anti you know I'm going to say healthy gun

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perspective you know we can I think people who have a healthy gun

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perspective can be lumped into yeah that aspect well you don't care

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about people you know being killed and harmed and hurt no that's not

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true because I think you can have that care for people that that valuing of

22:46
life to be able to recognize okay yes this is a format but something else is

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going on here yeah and there's been a tremendous devaluing of the importance of life I

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think that's that's the key though right is that there is uh kind of

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this intersection of problems sure in culture right now uh in in so basically

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we're at in a lot of cases our worst uh mental health state in a lot of cases

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sure and also have access to guns in a way that's maybe too loose right may this is

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this is the discussion sure that intersection yeah is a problem and

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that's what needs to be addressed when the talking points are brought up well people are the problem

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in mental health yeah it's like yes but I can't go into that person's house and work on their mental health yeah right

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yeah I can't I also think about um you know you said you know you grew up going

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to a shooting club um at school which I think you know part of the problem is

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that we don't have those anymore maybe that would help but besides that point

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we also now have seat belts sure where maybe at that same time when you were

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going to a shooting club or what you also didn't have seat belts in your vehicle I grew up without seat belts right does that make sense so makes

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perfect sense so as we progress and we realize what harms people and ways that we can save lives things adjust right

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and I think there's almost nobody would argue seat bels are a bad thing right nobody would argue that they are bad I

24:35
said almost nobody would yeah arue that they're a bad thing now some people don't like them they restrict their

24:40
freedom so they won't wear them or whatever you know that whole thing but almost nobody would argue that they're bad thing and the stats show that

24:46
they've helped I think that's where um The Common Sense thing comes in you know

24:53
you've heard that term Common Sense gun LW right I don't necessarily know what all the parameters of that but the way I

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hear that is let's just make it a little bit harder to get a gun let's make sure that if you have some mental stability

25:07
issues it's really hard for you to get get a gun to the degree where you might have to go illegal to to do it which can

25:14
happen I'm not of course we're not ruling that out we know the laws aren't perfect we know people will bad people

25:21
will do bad things right but if it's a just a little bit harder for me to make a rash mental health decision mhm you

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know I guarantee you 99.9% of a a Shooter's life they would

25:35
never make that decision to do that I shouldn't say I guarantee it I feel strongly

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that the a lot of these events are a result of um an extreme mental health

25:48
event in their life if that make sense basically the crossing of two

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lines right and a gun in the wrong hands yep where if that that gun wasn't in the

26:00
wrong hands because they didn't have it maybe they you know do something healthy

26:06
I don't know drive off into the sunset and just wait a while whatever I don't know I don't know

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what the alternatives are um but I do know the mass shootings continue to

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expand the other part about this which I'm fully aware of which we talked about in the politics episode is publicity so

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sure we know that this is a hot button topic and so we know every news Outlet

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is going to latch on to it because it's a money maker sure so that I think we

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that has to be said that has to be accounted for you know there were probably school shootings in the

26:44
1950s how many I don't know did they track it the same way I don't know but what I know now is there is another

26:52
intersection of events which is we really like to talk about shootings and as a result Maybe as a result the

26:58
correlation is not causation we don't know that there's also more shootings sure are we also to blame for talking so

27:06
much about it and glorifying in a sense these shooters and not only glorifying

27:12
but also giving putting seeds of thought you know and it's like you know that's an option MH you know

27:20
and yeah that being said because it can almost become well that person got so

27:27
many people is that what you're saying to it not necessarily because again I don't think

27:34
that most Shooters are sitting around thinking about how can I hurt the most people MH at my next opportunity mhm my

27:43
thought is more an extreme mental health event happened and they had no Outlet

27:49
mhm and that was the outlet they chose like I need this pain to get out of me

27:55
right I don't know or this anger this hate right sure um that's boiled up we

28:00
have anger issues yeah mhm that that's kind of more what I'm saying than like listening going oh that's one way I

28:07
could kill a lot of people I don't think that's it's not like uh those villains and cartoons you know yeah but I think I

28:14
think there is and I I think we can identify to a certain degree a shared

28:20
pattern that individuals who do mass shootings whether it's outside of

28:26
schools or inside of schools tend to have an isolated perspective on

28:32
the world and I and and I'm agreeing with yours it's like that same person

28:39
who if they were able to have positive influences or like myself I'm not saying

28:45
I'm but that camaraderie might never have even thought about going to

28:51
that that route if you will yeah that wouldn't have necessarily been an option

28:57
I there's a lot of shows movies TV shows documentaries discussing some of those

29:05
outlier type people right like um you know serial killers Stu like that and

29:11
one thing that seems to be common in my understanding of those shows and and in my consumption of them is that they

29:18
haven't really cracked that nut yet does that make sense it's not like there's this common thing that they can point to

29:24
they're almost always like the story it the drama is well he seemed to be nice

29:30
he seemed to right um it it it never quite lines up sometimes they're like oh

29:36
yeah that guy was a creeper before or whatever but we know lots of creepers who aren't killing people sure at least

29:42
I assume yeah uh the point is we haven't really cracked the nut as to what

29:47
triggers people to become this way or to to persist in this way um so that's the

29:53
hard part about you know

29:59
I don't know I lost my thought that's the hard part about being able to protect each and every person all the

30:05
time yeah and I because in some ways um

30:10
I forget and this is this was my part of your media Dynamic came to mind

30:17
um probably about a year and a half ago maybe two years now covid type time

30:23
frame I remember there happened to be a day where I want to say Texas had a

30:29
shooting and maybe Ohio had a shooting at the same time just different you know

30:35
from that media standpoint and I remember seeing the people headline kind

30:41
of walking through the you know the magazine you know check out aisle type stuff and the question was when is it

30:49
going to stop and I remember just kind of

30:55
thinking about that and being able who say hm I'm not sure it can so to be able to

31:04
think that it could in some ways from my perspective

31:14
is naive if we're not going to factor a a a

31:21
an a sin component into this you know because if I if man okay okay in who we

31:29
are can stop this then we're something different than

31:35
we really are from my perspective does that make sense mhm I don't think we

31:40
have the ability now does that mean I'm not for safer safer you know or you know

31:47
background checks no I'm all I'm okay with background checks I'm all good with background checks I believe all firearms

31:54
should be purchased legally and you know registered as necessary according to the

32:00
laws of that state you know so it's not I'm definitely not a person who's saying

32:08
well it doesn't matter how people get guns or you know and granted I'm from my

32:14
perspective okay I think as long as a person's following you know the guidelines

32:20
outline you know Outline by the state then you know that's what you can

32:25
do and and the mental health bring back to that yes um

32:32
um I am a proponent of you know a person

32:37
who has is it I can't go so far as to say a

32:43
person who has certain mental health issues should not be able to protect

32:49
themselves okay um I believe what it it it it needs to be spe

32:57
specific and I think it's it's difficult for law enforcement to be able to handle

33:05
each one of these circumstances on a caseby casee basis yeah it's impossible

33:10
I would dare say and yet I'm with you in that context I would rather error on the

33:17
side of a person who has serious mental health issues not being able to have

33:24
access and and you know I'm just thinking about it in my context I have

33:30
you know worked with people who have been you know on the verge of suicidal and worked with people to be able to say

33:37
okay we need to move your guns someplace else if you have them you know that's

33:43
this isn't the time for you to be able to have guns in your home and you know and I've had those

33:49
discussions with people you know routinely and you know and and GR

33:59
I've never you know had the other part where a person is saying I'm going to

34:06
you know hurt someone I've never experienced that in my office but I've experienced the other side where you

34:11
know people are at at risk shall I say for you know suicide and it's like yeah

34:18
we've had these discussions before you know and so that's as as a mental health

34:26
professional that's that's how I see it yeah yeah it's a important and uh good

34:32
perspective to bring to the table right like in terms of the mental health

34:37
aspect um yeah the the other thing you mentioned um I was thinking about

34:44
well you know culturally like shooting together that was a big thing um but

34:51
also you know talking about the gun club when you were growing up basically how the the laws have changed a little bit

34:58
in various areas I was thinking about I think it's like India or uh a country

35:04
close to India okay or maybe in several countries where um they'll they'll pack

35:10
a whole family on a motorcycle right have you seen these pictures it's amazing what they do with motorcycles

35:16
right yeah and they basically make a clown car out of a motorcycle yeah it's amazing it is incredible like I am in

35:23
awe of what they can accomplish with motorcycles I um we would necessarily

35:28
advocate for that or say because culturally it's acceptable there we should loosen our laws to then allow for

35:35
those cultural you know Norms right sure um because I'm I don't know the numbers

35:43
I haven't looked it up I'm guessing they have more fatalities on motorcycles sure than the average that would be my guess

35:50
maybe they're like super amazing still I'm hearing where you're coming from but we wouldn't necessarily look at that and

35:56
go well culturally it's acceptable and part of the norm and and whatever so we

36:01
should allow for it so I think that was just my like thought in terms of well

36:06
culture is an important part what I would say is the culture the most important thing about the culture uh

36:13
perspective is in these conversations in the how I see it's in these polarizing

36:19
discussions to recognize like that family of 500 motorcycle they're not idiots for doing

36:25
that no where if you saw that in America you would judge them harshly right right

36:31
do that make sense so I think a little room for perspective on the you

36:37
know no guns or extreme gun control side to say culturally there's something happening here that we maybe we don't

36:44
quite understand sure and we should not write it off as not a thing because I

36:49
don't understand it which is again very much what this podcast is about right like take time to understand understand

36:55
and you know get to know other perspectives that mean nothing to you because just because they mean

37:02
nothing to you doesn't mean they mean nothing across the board it's very often you know that it's the other way around

37:08
and then vice versa like you mentioned Inner City Guns represent one thing you

37:14
know violence and crime and the wrong people having them right and so if

37:19
that's the culture you grow up in you live on you know a certain city block that you kind of live in fear because of

37:25
guns right you've heard them while you're trying to go to bed shootings and you've you've you've seen Drive buys

37:32
occur and that kind of thing and this is all guns right to you um there's that

37:38
perspective and that culture even M that should be identifi you know and and

37:43
embraced on on your side of things which I think that you try to do I'm not but I'm saying if you're on the this is my

37:50
culture this is my MH my country I grew up you you're maybe grew up rurally and

37:56
and that's it's like you're not taking my guns you know it's like well consider that there's also people who grew up in

38:03
that culture and don't be so arrogant to say if I was in their shoes you know

38:08
whatever no no you don't know that sure you know um and I think it's just I was

38:13
in their shoes yeah like if you grew up in the city block where they're shootings every night you couldn't go to

38:19
sleep whatever you know there's no bravado for that you know you're not going to go out and solve it in one way

38:25
or another true where there's not a source you can pinpoint and go you know go down to the local Saloon and do a a

38:32
shootout whatever it's like no it's not like that the enemies on every side and not something you can easily identify

38:38
and just go take out cuz I think there's some of that bravado that comes with um

38:44
can come from the the gun culture right like well because I have my guns that wouldn't happen that kind of thing it's

38:51
like no that's not accurate you know no I hear you and I I like where you're

38:56
coming from from um in that context um and my

39:04
perspective this is H I believe certain areas I'll go state by

39:12
I'll go certain States possibly here's my experience okay this

39:18
is what I'll share I was able to carry in New York

39:26
state where I came from but the places that I was legally able to carry

39:35
were far more limited does that make sense so basically I could carry at my own house

39:44
you follow me yeah and I think about that and that comes back to okay at that

39:50
point it's primarily up to law enforcement to protect me

39:57
in a a setting a public setting I'll call it you follow

40:04
me from my perspective I believe you know when people have the ability to

40:11
protect themselves in a public environment like we can in North Carolina North Carolina has different

40:18
gun laws that allow individuals to carry in more public places you follow me and

40:25
I from my perspective that makes now I can't go back and look at statistics and compare I and and

40:33
ideally but from my perspective My Philosophy is that makes North Carolina

40:39
safer in the ability to protect individuals in more public places you

40:48
follow me and and and that's that's how I see it um and I and that's because and

40:55
when I'm looking at New York and that limited and especially the city that you know you weren't allowed to you know you

41:03
know I look at that and I say okay yeah but that's where legislation isn't going to change it because and I don't want to

41:11
make it about talking points but you know it's like if a person wants to do

41:16
illegal things they will find guns to hurt people regardless of

41:24
legislation yeah so that makes sense I want to just be a talking point I'm just

41:31
that's my but that's what this conversation is yeah but I hate I I do

41:36
dislike you know talking points and I and that's my to

41:42
me there there's a few things that I would like to see for it yeah what is it

41:48
the first is a pretty stringent process to get one sure so like driving for

41:54
instance right you have to go through driver's education then you have to theel tr with who been

42:01
doing this for years and and years and knows all the pitfalls of what can happen as a new driver sure and they

42:08
drive alongside you they say now this is a thing that can happen You Want To Be watchful for this they can grab the

42:14
steering wheel sometimes right they they have their own brake pedal um that's the

42:19
process and then you know even in different states they have different laws for once you get your license like

42:24
you can drive until nighttime or you only Drive x amount of hours at night you know like there's different uh

42:31
because they recognize this age group as you're beginning to learn is one of the most common asent groups to get in car

42:38
accident so they're like you know let's let's do some common sense driving loss right yeah let's make it a little bit

42:43
safer as safe as we can so the process is you know it's not Flawless it doesn't

42:49
account for sin but I'd say it's doing a decent job in terms of I feel good about

42:55
the process Mia has to go through get her driver's license I feel good about it as a parent

43:01
um and then once she gets her license you know that that's an important part

43:08
of a lot of life right like to be able to have a license be able to drive your car um that kind of thing and she has to

43:14
renew it on a consistent basis right and if you drive around without your license you're in pretty big trouble mhm right

43:20
mhm those are things to me that I want to see with guns I want to see that it

43:26
requires a training period from people you know

43:31
you know you can argue you know driver training they're good trainers or not but the point is there there should be some regulated training this again this

43:38
is how I see it this is what I would like to see some regulated training that's consistent across you know many

43:44
states right I would also like to see behind the wheel I'd like to see you have to spend time with a qualified

43:50
individual maybe even pay for that right that you know that opportunity where you

43:55
go out to shooting range you know he has a break whatever that looks like I don't know but where you have that hand on

44:02
hand toand training sure and then I would like to see a peri a probationary period where you know you have to for 15

44:09
months you have a uh what do you call permit right sure and you know probably fine within a year you get your license

44:16
but it's just a probationary type thing where if you get an accident or you know that kind of thing maybe you don't get

44:21
your license for for this uh thing and then once you get your license you have to renew it and you have to you know and

44:28
if you don't have a license you're in pretty big trouble sure so these are things I would like to see if we do it

44:33
with cars I'd like to see us do it with guns it's let me ask you yeah go ahead does that currently exist I have no idea

44:41
I think here's what I think yeah I think parts of it exist in certain States sure

44:47
um yep the going back to your New York thing mhm um I don't I don't know this I

44:55
don't know what kind of penalties are supposed to happen as a result of having a gun that you don't have registered

45:02
sure I'd like them to be very very very strong so that if you choose to go the

45:08
illegal route you are so scared that you're going to get caught that's what I

45:13
would like to see but again I don't know what the actual penalties are sure this not an area I've investigated in I I

45:19
honestly don't know maybe they are already that's okay and that's what that's the reason I asked CU I do

45:25
believe you know people have it's it's part of what you're

45:31
saying in an education perspective and now I'm going to share

45:38
here again from my experience I grew up in order to receive a hunting license I

45:45
had to take a formal class I'm sure it was very similar in Michigan you know you could do this Minnesota excuse me

45:52
Michigan too yeah probably Michigan as well yeah but while we're talking about States maybe Idaho at 12 at 12 I was

46:01
able to attend a hunter safety class yeah I was not allowed to

46:07
hunt without that license so I had to take a

46:13
class I had to you know it was a number of nights and and it was the neat part from my perspective it was taught by our

46:21
local gay Mor who I knew you know and respected just like a police officer you

46:26
know it's like okay I don't want to be on this guy's bad list so I'm going to follow the rules so that he doesn't have

46:32
to show up at my house and then there is what they call a junior license so you

46:38
were a Junior Hunter from age 12 to 18

46:44
so when you became an adult you could get a adult license which meant you could hunt by

46:50
yourself otherwise if you had a junior license you weren't allowed to hunt by

46:56
your self mhm you follow me yes sounding very familiar and that and that and that

47:02
was Hunter's Education yeah for me growing up no that's a good proxy like you you can't hunt by yourself you have

47:09
yeah and I'm going to speak to the you know and and specifically on handguns

47:15
yes state byst state it varies in North Carolina and here again it's just my

47:22
experience I was able to take a a small group of people with me to

47:29
a carrying class where that individual

47:35
okay there's you get the law you understand where where you cannot carry

47:40
you know and there's a process called uh um castle doctrine you know how you are

47:46
able to protect your domain you know it kind of from my perspective it it stems

47:52
from the Magna Carta you know that there were rules to be able to protect your

47:57
domicile mhm you know that and and that varies state by state well state by state and region by region

48:06
to a certain degree you have to know you know your specific area but that being

48:11
said you know those individuals did have to pay for a class in order to receive a

48:19
permit to carry now granted certain states are open carry certain states are

48:24
concealed carry in order to be to get a concealed carry permit you have to

48:31
attend that class where there is a handson opportunity to shoot a weapon in

48:39
front of a trained individual who has that license to be able to teach that

48:45
class MH you follow me and and that's in North Carolina you know I mean and you

48:51
know in other states have reciprocity mhm you know the

48:57
ability to accept permits from other states but yeah so I mean and that's

49:03
where I'm at some of that legislation I don't know you know

49:10
protocol is in place yeah that's amazing I I honestly wouldn't know I mean that's

49:16
and and that's and that's where that's that's that's good and that's where I

49:21
come I bet I'm not the only one exactly and that and that's where I'm at um yeah

49:28
the Fear Part don't take this I'm not I'm not

49:33
Cavalier I don't even want to come across as Cavalier because there's a sensitivity towards you know people

49:41
being hurt and yet I'm also recognizing that at times this Fear Can fear can be

49:50
as hurtful yeah in in some ways and it

49:55
basically um looking and in here it's part of what you and I desire to do we have these conversations cuz we're

50:03
looking at it from a th000 feet and sometimes we need to talk with somebody

50:08
who's been there or you know had this experience in order to change our

50:13
thousand foot perspective and so yeah yeah and the talking points only make that worse

50:20
right they only from my perspective yes my thousand foot perspective feel like

50:25
it's 2 feet away yes when the reality it's still 998 ft away right like they

50:32
might have given you a small piece of information that adds to the subject but it certainly doesn't get you to the

50:39
point where you understand it fully yes but they yeah yeah and it's and I'm not

50:45
trying to get off the subject either but I think you know when we're able to go

50:51
beyond the talking points because it's interesting we're talking about Mental Health I have to renew my mental health

50:58
license every year I have to get so much education to maintain that license as

51:04
well you follow me as a therapist as a therapist not not to keep your mental health yeah maybe it's counter two I

51:11
don't know but no seriously I have to do that and it was interesting because um we had um at one you know you're in a

51:19
room and there was a individual um who was talking about

51:25
inner city um Dynamics you know from a from a race relations perspective and I

51:33
just happen to you know be sitting next to a black fellow that I I knew of I

51:39
didn't know him personally but in that Forum I can remember you know asking him

51:46
it's like okay I grew up with a well just like I shared with you know my my

51:53
game warden and you know and I had po the first handgun I shot was a police

52:00
officer's handgun who you know came you stole it from him

52:07
no this I mean I'll be this is this is a this is a story you know some truth is

52:13
Stranger Than Fiction you know um cuz he had his you know 357 Magnum he came to

52:19
our you know 22 shooting C we had 4 H you know you were able to shoot 22s at Targets okay he showed up there and you

52:27
know he had his gun and he shot it and he says anybody else want to shoot it you know that kind of thing and I said

52:34
sure I'd love to and I didn't have any real hearing protection to speak of so he gave me two rounds to stick in my

52:42
ears as hearing protection okay you know I'm just thinking about how that the

52:47
equivalent of the mom's like arm as a seat belt swinging out you yes you know

52:53
to where you know and this was a police officer you know well knew that you know unless that round came into contact with

53:00
the primer it's not going to go off all by itself you know and even even stick

53:06
these bullets in your head yeah stick them in your ears it'll protect your ears and it even you know it even brings

53:11
me back to your cars and seat belts as long as I've been alive every gun has a

53:18
safety on it and handguns are being made more and more safe because there's like

53:24
three different safety mechanisms that have to be engaged to be able to

53:30
discharge a a handgun you know so but I can remember sitting next to this guy

53:35
sorry long story short but it's a good one though sitting next to thisy the bullets in your ears exactly okay and I

53:42
asked him I said help me understand cuz we were talking about hoods and you know

53:47
and kids having their hoods up and you know

53:53
and I asked him I said based on my perspective help me understand why a

54:00
black teenager will tend to run from a police officer you follow me and I asked

54:06
him that question and this is like 15-year-old Mark no no no I'm I'm sorry

54:12
I I digressed on the the pistol story I'm back to the mental health license

54:18
story where I'm sitting next to cuz cuz I'm talking about you don't have bullets in your ear at this point cuz I'm

54:24
talking about my experience growing up I had a close relationship with the police

54:31
officers around me okay so yeah one time there's too many stories but I'm not

54:38
yeah I'm staying to the mental health one uh yes mental health I'm at the

54:46
training guy said yep happens to be a black guy I asked him help me understand

54:52
what makes a black teen run from a police officer so the hoods talking

54:58
about the hoods that was in that training event yes in that training event again I was still on the shooting

55:03
R it's okay there's like you say there's a lot more stories but it would be completely off our subject for the

55:10
moment so I'm just really trying to work on this okay you're doing great well no I I realized I made it a little

55:16
confusing I'll take responsibility that's right you're the interviewer in this one come on Justin failing no

55:23
you're doing great I think you broke the line a long time ago I asked him why you

55:29
know help me understand that as a black individual and caring about you know teenagers and I can remember his

55:36
response to me was help me understand why the white police officer feels it's

55:43
so important to chase that teenager you follow me and in that

55:51
moment I felt a little bit defeated because

55:57
because I wasn't trying to pin anyone down I W and and yet from my perspective

56:05
I can understand you know a police officer has a duty to protect and is

56:11
there a point where yeah I don't have to chase probably and I would I would error

56:17
on the side that you know police officers exercise whether to enter into

56:25
that chase or not all the time and yet they have a sworn duty to

56:31
protect uphold and protect and so I wasn't I just

56:39
recognized based on body language that that's where that discussion was going to stop in that moment and I'm looking

56:46
at it I'm feeling defeated I'm recognizing a sense of

56:52
defensiveness on that individual and we're two mental health profession

56:57
which made that very sad to me and I mean but wow what a great

57:03
response on his part yeah I mean I wasn't I wasn't at

57:09
all upset at him for that

57:14
response and yet it wasn't I maybe it's the fact that

57:21
it wasn't the direct answer I was looking for a question with a question you know

57:26
but I can respect that that point that's where our differences came

57:32
together you follow me my cultural background was so different that it's

57:39
like if that police officer and you know having neighbors who were your culture

57:46
that's this goes right back to the beginning of the discussion which is your culture with also applies to your

57:51
culture with law enforcement yep you know like you said your game board was who taught you how to shoot a gun and

57:57
police officer gave you bullets to shove in your ear when he let you shoot his gun and rides to school when I missed the bus yeah so I mean your

58:05
perspective I mean this gets into the another polarizing topic of racism which

58:10
you know will be hard to have without someone who's of A different race in the room but sure U but it's man there is

58:18
such a different perspective it's like the guy who grew up on the city you know corner and hearing shootings at night

58:23
couldn't fall asleep you know maybe a few will stray bullets landed in their house that kind of

58:29
thing um it's that polarizing of a Viewpoint maybe worse right like to grow

58:34
up in the inner city as a black child versus growing up in the rural country as a white child and I would love for

58:43
there have to been a lot more room for that conversation between you and he because I feel like that would have been

58:49
incredible yeah but I think likely in whatever scenario you weren't in it wasn't going to be there wasn't room for

58:56
that really yeah in that moment and like you say that's not to say that I haven't had other race related discussions you

59:04
know since then and I think you know even in that topic there's a tremendous amount of polarity you know of you know

59:13
that whole aspect of you know white privilege you know that kind of thing I think you know even within the black

59:19
community there's a tremendous diversity on that perspective you know and it's

59:24
it's interesting that police officer that allowed me to shoot his weapon was

59:30
also a black individual and I can still picture his kids going riding on the bus with me you

59:37
know that kind of thing to where you know I would even dare say those black

59:43
individuals in my community would have a very different cultural

59:48
perspective than inner city or you know or or white inner city that kind of

59:53
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