0:01
[Music] will amble am probably we just won't

0:07
Preamble fair enough ambling along fair enough good

0:13
morning sir good morning how are you well happy to amble along with you this

0:19
morning yeah and I you good I guess that means it's good we're doing this yeah no

0:26
doubt I guess I guess it's okay if sometimes I don't like doing it with you but that's never been the case yet

0:35
so yeah I don't think so yeah I can't think of a time when we've really had a

0:41
heated discussion or argument even in some ways between the two of us which

0:48
that's okay that's okay yeah yeah if that's the show you want I'm sorry exactly this isn't the one uh we're a

0:55
little too like-minded but [Music]

1:04
welcome to how I see it with me Mark Pratt and Justin Sternberg this is a

1:10
podcast that works to countercultural polarization through thoughtful

1:16
[Music] conversations but can you ever think of

1:22
a time when you really had a heated discussion with somebody not not not

1:29
necessarily a physical fight but you know a heated discussion that just really spun you up sure oh yeah yeah oh

1:37
yeah how many times does that happen with a family

1:43
member yeah probably the ratio is higher is it would you say the majority of times I

1:50
guess because I mean maybe it's um some sort maybe

1:56
it's maybe equal but the difference is the non-f family is across all kinds of

2:02
spectrums sure or family is one category that makes up half of all of those feelings you know I mean does that make

2:09
sense yeah I guess yeah in other words with people in general you know you've

2:14
had as many arguments maybe but the spectrum is broader it's re it's it's

2:20
dispersed out of a number of people but it's work it's Sports it's yeah F well

2:25
not and competition doesn't necessarily count okay you know that kind of the you know what about family uh game

2:33
time CU that's some of the most competitive times I've experienced no

2:38
doubt yeah politics could probably play into that as far as you know heated

2:43
discussions or more heated discussions that kind of things yeah what about you what about me you

2:51
answer the question ah I I I prefer asking the questions I know but um

3:00
a heated discussion i' I've I have probably had as many heated discussions

3:06
in my own house as I have really outside MH of the house yeah yeah yeah makes

3:14
sense I mean that's still family but you're even more to be honest with you it's probably

3:21
more you know Chris and I over the years got you know in that process of you know

3:26
differing views yeah I wasn't counting Megan I guess that that tips the scales quite a bit more for

3:33
sure I mean that's that's half the fun of marriage it out once in a while every now and then every now and then yes

3:40
conflict builds intimacy that's right so in that process though I was thinking about that you know in the we we we've

3:47
kind of as a culture we've reverred to it as the seasons you know we don't necessarily say Happy Thanksgiving or

3:52
merry Christmas as much you know we kind of but you know this this time holidays

3:58
yeah yeah this time right between you know Thanksgiving and Christmas and you

4:04
know we're we're kind of in that process of having maybe some family time at Thanksgiving and you know enjoying that

4:12
and yet you know we're kind of looking forward to Christmas and you know likely different

4:19
family time or prolonged family time and just thinking about it in that context

4:24
of uh being able to enjoy that and and thinking about anything things that

4:31
you've learned through those conflicts or over time that become helpful in that

4:38
process that's good and and we we just released recently an episode about

4:44
holidays right that one was actually recorded last January it was basically kind of a post holiday season reflection

4:51
and then we said you know maybe we won't release this right now since holidays are over and it feels a little bit you

4:57
know I don't know if everyone else going to enjoy talking about Christmas you know 3 weeks after four weeks so we

5:03
released that um you know a couple weeks ago but so this is maybe sort of an extension to that or conversation that

5:09
kind of extends from that um but just you may think that we just you know recorded that nope that was that was a

5:16
January discussion so we're ready to have it again exactly I think that's where it comes yeah that's where it comes from is this this time of year yep

5:24
and you know the most yes wonderful that's that's how the song goes the year

5:30
but then there's that other song you guys sing you know that it's like you know this is a tough season for some

5:36
people yeah yeah cuz circumstances have changed over the process of the Year yep

5:43
or relationships yeah for sure and your uh so back to your question um was

5:50
conflicts and what have you learned through past conflicts and family

5:56
situations um what about you are you gonna answer my question or you

6:01
just reflect answer first um as I was as I was thinking about it and I think I

6:07
like turning the tables once that's okay I'm I'm still willing I'm good for it um but in that process I am thinking about

6:15
life cycle stages MH because granted right now you know um I'm thinking about

6:21
it in the context that you know this is the first yeah this is the first season

6:27
where Chris and I you know as a couple [Music] have had to not had to

6:37
um as as this is the first season that we've needed to take other families into

6:44
consideration as our children are young adults and they have have their own

6:50
relationships and it's like in the back of our mind there's a there's now this

6:55
second guessing of this time this date you know and does that work you know and

7:01
is you know is is John's friend's family going to be doing something Lizzy's you

7:07
know as we're we're we're coordinating these schedules so that's and you know and granted you know it's real fresh it

7:14
is real fresh it's real fresh and then the fact that uh my mom you know passed

7:20
away in the end of August and you know and just how that factors in you know

7:26
into that equation it was you know cuz I I was thinking about it we uh last

7:31
Christmas um what's Ernie no what's uh yes Ernie Christ's father Ernie was was

7:39
not here just passed away he was not here last christas both Christmas is kind of fresh with uh one of your

7:44
parents passing away so kind of relearning those because that was Chris's side and now it's your side so

7:50
it's kind of the same thing but different because it's a different family unit yeah and

7:56
how we take you know Linda Chris's mom and you know my Dad into consideration

8:02
you know as still being you know the the surviving partner and how that changes

8:07
you know their viewpoints and you know and so yeah that's that's kind of what

8:12
yeah cuz everyone's relearning it now right yeah like how does this work now

8:19
yep and no one knows I think exactly right so you kind of just work through

8:25
it try the old tradition see what works is that yeah cuz it was it was funny I

8:30
it um every now and then of course you know something will kind of catch you off guard you know when you think about

8:36
it being different but we got together with our small group on Monday night and uh they they read the Christmas story

8:44
you know from Luke that kind of thing and you know um the person that read it kind of started tearing up a little bit

8:50
actually Jeff you know the guy that's been on the podcast before he started you know tearing up and he was sharing

8:55
you know that that was a family tradition for him you know and it's like I didn't didn't say anything but you

9:00
know that was always a family that was you know we didn't do anything until there was like a there was like a story

9:06
from the you know the Readers Digest all that those books that the Readers Digest used to send out Christmas Story we we

9:14
do one of those which mom would call a tearjerker and then you know we'd we'd uh you know go to uh you know Luke 2 to

9:20
be able to do the Christmas story and just him reading that you know definitely brought up those emotions

9:26
from the you know past Christmases just in that in that moment so yeah you think

9:31
about it and how circumstances change but yeah yeah yeah and for decades it

9:38
was just the same thing same thing same thing like yeah kind of almost don't hear the words kind of almost don't

9:46
think about it because I think about Megan inside of the family we always do a nativity okay together with the kids

9:53
you know and we have the same script we do every time but yeah it's just kind of this thing you always do and yeah the me

9:59
isn't that significant until something like this and then it's like

10:05
Kow smash full of meaning you know what I mean exactly yeah no doubt no doubt

10:11
yeah so it was you know unto us a child is born type thing you know and you know

10:16
and you think about the impact of that one especially as you know we think about death and salvation and you know

10:22
what that means and you know so it was just kind of neat and you know it it has

10:28
it has also I'm thankful in some way well I'm thankful in a lot of ways but um I'm

10:35
thankful as I think about our kids um I I would dare say one of the one of the

10:43
early conflicts of Christmas that I had with my dad was you know when he he

10:50
addressed my mom and dad's concerns about you know equality around you know

10:56
the holiday and how that was spent and we we we got into a you know heated

11:01
discussion that's what that's you know that probably not too many people know about that 30 years ago or something

11:07
yeah like you say you know well we'll be we'll be 27 we'll be 27 on the 14th yeah

11:13
wow so yeah but you know 20 some years ago you know we had this heated

11:19
discussion and you know I can still I can still remember how I respect the

11:27
fact that they wanted to address it and I and I was able to um reciprocate in such a way that

11:34
said okay yeah we spend it here but this is also where we have our relationships

11:41
the people that grew up with our kids and you know and stuff like that you know and he was able to kind of accept

11:48
that in such a way and I can I can honestly say I really appreciate how uh

11:54
from that point on granted not that there weren't some other feelings involved but from that point on I really

12:00
got the sense that they were grateful for the time that we offered it wasn't

12:06
that there was ever a concern after that that there wasn't enough they were

12:11
really you know and and I think for me that's helpful going forward because I

12:17
realized the circumstances are going to change but you know if we think about it in this terminology that says you know

12:25
well we never get the the same amount or you more would them or you know versus just being grateful for the time

12:32
you have if you can come through for a meal you know or you know you don't have to stay overnight you're welcome to stay

12:38
overnight but you know I just have really valued that Dynamic especially

12:45
you know when Mom you know prior to when Mom was live you know it's like yeah if you can catch us on the way up or you

12:51
know that'd be wonderful you know and so yeah it was just being that that aspect

12:56
of being thankful for the has been a that's something for you to

13:02
start learning and adapting yeah it's interesting there's also obviously something to be said for that conflict

13:09
that you and your dad you know that conversation where uh you were able to

13:14
transfer some empathy together right like he was able to start seeing it a little more from your perspective CU we

13:21
enter almost every conflict from a very centralized Viewpoint my viewpoint you

13:26
know and I think good conflict allows us that brought in that view and you were able to learn a little bit about oh yeah

13:33
my parents they they need that time with us they care about that time and he was able to kind of take from

13:39
that Mark's got his own family now I remember what that was like I mean and

13:44
able to have a little more empathy for each other which makes sense why the conflicts that conflict kind of went

13:50
away right is the transference of viewpoints understanding was created in

13:56
such a way that there was a there was a greater re for each person yeah which

14:01
just really enhances the importance of conflict oh sure even with family members even in that little window you

14:08
have at a Holiday like yeah you know they if you got to take care of some stuff take care of some stuff and that's

14:14
but that's hard right yeah at at the holidays you want it to be like the movies right oh yeah yeah it's very

14:21
rarely like the movies but yes that's what your goal is that's what your desire is that's you don't want to be

14:27
the one you know to turn it into a bad movie yeah cuz by now they've actually made lots of good movies with lots of

14:34
conflict at holidays you refering no no no there's one called the

14:41
Family Stone that Megan likes to watch a lot and then there's another one shoot what's it called I can't remember um but

14:47
there's a couple like big family get together Christmas type movies that are you know fairly recent 10 years

14:55
oldish that have you know just have a lot of Comedy a lot of drama right and

15:00
like sure yeah people not doing what they should or doing what they always do

15:06
yeah yeah so yeah and and and yeah conflict is almost always a big there's

15:12
a big blow up right in in these movies and as a result that's very similar to what we

15:18
were just discussing with you and your dad and in in the end there's a transference right of a viewpoints and

15:23
the ability to start seeing it a little bit differently and have a little bit more Grace no doubt which is yeah

15:29
because I can still I can still remember you know it was like I was we were at my grandparents house and you know he asked

15:35
me to step out into the back room so I knew something I knew something was going to happen you know but yeah it was

15:42
H it was uh it was definitely a understanding that was created he start taking his belt

15:47
out no not at that point depending on how you answered he

15:52
was never a belt person yeah we always had that we always had a piece of hardwood on top hardwood trim on top of

16:00
the refrigerator you didn't see reach for that it was while we were in the wrong household you know it was in my

16:05
grandparents house so yeah no the board of Correction was on top of the the

16:10
board of Correction man missed opportunity

16:17
yeah if you have small children and you're still open to the idea of Corporal you call it corporal punishment

16:23
is that what's piing yeah then consider naming it the uh Board of Correction there you go yeah

16:32
yeah all right I'm going to grab my slippers so what so you keep talking oh you oh Fe are getting cold gotcha would

16:38
you like your slippers no I'm good I'm good so yeah in that as as the seasons change you're you're talking about it

16:45
from that uh cooler weather coming as I'm as as we're discussing this what uh

16:50
as I'm thinking about you and I'm not trying to pin it on you but in that process I'm thinking about changes for

16:57
you as far as as last year versus this year what is

17:02
what differences have you been able to notice what awareness has been created

17:07
if I may say so well I mean we're kind of in one of

17:13
those uh what do you call those Seasons where it's just kind of all the same year

17:18
after year after year in the sense think that's redundant uh in some senses I mean my parents live in Kansas City and

17:26
Megan's parents live here and so obviously you know it's kind of like what you were describing some years we

17:32
go there some some years they come here sometime some some years we just stay here they stay there that kind of thing

17:38
some years we go to Minnesota it's been a while but we went to Minnesota your parents came here last year for quite a

17:43
while y yeah yeah and actually last year we had a good uh a good discussion sort

17:48
of a conflict type thing sort of like you you and your dad um and I feel like

17:53
that was you know very good which is one of the reasons you know I was you know

17:59
sharing that I think conflict resolution is an important part of that time spent

18:04
because I mean there's not a lot of things you can do I mean there's a lot of things you

18:10
can do best in person and one of those things is conflict resolution sure and

18:15
so it sucks to have to kind of like like I already said use some of that family

18:21
time use some of that you know for stuff like that but at the same time there might be no better use of that time if

18:28
you know if that's necessary if that's a part of what has to happen sure if if you're

18:34
able to reach resolution I think that's the difficult true you know a long might

18:39
be going home early exactly when somebody storms out and says no we're not getting together anymore and then

18:46
they never get together anymore that's sad but yeah yeah yeah yeah that's very

18:51
true I mean I guess you can't but ideally if you're able to have that resolution and be and and much like

18:59
you're saying create greater self and others awareness yeah I think that's a

19:04
you know because that's you know you're the the the ruptures or the you know the

19:10
conflicts will come but if there's resolution or repair to it then yeah and we both grow in that ability to see

19:17
things from other people's view I was thinking about it you know too uh you're at the point where um this will be a

19:24
different Christmas for you from Megan's family um in the aspect that you guys

19:29
were all a little more together well Megan's brother is in Minnesota but now

19:37
um her sister has moved out to so that that changes you guys were all a little more

19:44
centralized so so yeah that'll yeah I mean Kelly uh who moved away Kelly was

19:50
on the podcast before too yes she was uh yeah but anyway uh they live in hang

19:56
Hanging Rock State Park which is 4 and 1/2 hours away or whatever so I mean you

20:01
know they can hop back and we can do Christmas on a different day if they can't do it that day or whatever and um

20:08
I think that those plans are already nailed down I don't know what they are I just I just go when I go when they tell

20:13
me to go um but there again I think that's another good point too I think you know as we think about circumstances

20:19
change not necessarily having everything nailed to that 25th 24th you know you

20:27
know yeah cu if Christmas has to happen in that window you know especially as

20:33
you know you're you're developing your own family you know you want to have your own Traditions I think that can

20:39
make it very difficult because it it adds a lot more pressure especially as the parents right to be this is when we

20:46
always do it this is when we have to do it if you don't do it now it means you don't love us kind of things it's like

20:55
well excuse me easy for you to say Justin's getting choked up just thinking

21:01
about it something like that um like you were saying uh at some

21:07
point those parents who are being that way got that day right from whoever had

21:15
you know so it's like and there's a forgetting of that but yeah I think you're right in the sense that those

21:22
specific moments those days like the day the the tradition is really good for

21:28
that time of rearing your children up and that's when you kind of claim that from your parents for yourself for your

21:35
family sure and then you hand that baton off as you know or that ideally right

21:41
ideally yes yeah yeah and and I think that's that's part of the part of the

21:48
difficulty is I think you know you know we can look back and we I'm saying for

21:53
me personally we can look back and say wow we've had these great traditions and I don't necessarily want

21:59
those to change and yet that's one thing about life that we can count on is the

22:05
fact that yes change is going to happen yeah and you know that ability to

22:10
recognize that because I think if if we're able to recognize change is going to happen change is happening you know

22:17
then we can kind of avoid that resentment if you will of okay you

22:23
know they can come around the holiday seasons you know for many people and and I think it's defin itely become

22:30
more prevalent in other words when we used when we lived in New York state even that was excuse me that was easier

22:38
cuz both of our parents were you know under 45 minutes away right so you could

22:43
even fit both in one 25th if you had to right yeah yeah yeah and it's and it's

22:50
and it's been fun to you know in some ways to be away and experience the other

22:57
side of the that coin you know as far as that ability to be local and have family

23:03
members come into town you know and experience that but then now it's in some ways to respect and you know

23:11
recognize what it's like for those people who are out of town to come in and you know work into that you know

23:17
family system that's kind of established I think that's which is kind of what we talked about in the last epod and some

23:23
of that but yeah you're now starting to feel the the on the other end yeah even

23:31
from our last conversation yeah yeah to be able to recognize okay yeah to get

23:37
North and spend time quality time and you know and I I appreciate the fact too that you know this year uh with Chris's

23:44
family will likely do you know Christmas or celebrate it you know in a in a

23:50
different fashion than what was you know typically done yeah and you know and I

23:55
can I can respect how that change of tradition you know makes that longing

24:03
different you know especially for you know Chris's mom Linda that kind of thing you know in that in that season of

24:10
of sorts but yeah yeah it's so interesting too because uh traditions and repetition

24:17
create unknowingly expectations yes right where for 12 years you know we

24:25
read Luke you saying or whatever or we did the Nativity with the kids like 12

24:32
years in a row so the 13th year of course that's what we're doing right and then reality kicks in one way or another

24:40
because I mean it's just it's very interesting as we're talking this out I can see it in our own my own family

24:45
system and I'm sure you can too just like the seasonal shifts of what you're describing and um definitely as I grew

24:53
up we always would uh go to my mom's side of the family pretty regularly um

25:00
it wasn't always on the 25th was we just figured it out right and I remember

25:05
those times and that was just always what we did and now I haven't been to that side for a thing in I you know

25:11
decades probably oh wow sure and at some point you know that shift happens and it's just you know you can see that um

25:18
but you can see how people who are you know not just people me like all of us

25:24
you get invested in those traditions and don't even realize how important they are to you until they go away kind of

25:30
like exactly we were just describing and I think too it makes it more difficult I

25:36
mean you you think about it in your lifetime you know from a from an aspect

25:43
of were did were your parents when your parents met okay did they basically live

25:50
in the same general area did they meet in that same so basically their parents

25:56
your grandparents were pretty localized to one another same same for me y you

26:02
know and I think you know as our culture has become more mobile you know I think

26:07
that that makes it a little more difficult because you know now we have

26:12
people who are you know coming together from places further away yeah you know

26:18
and so I can respect you know my parents you know especially my you know our

26:23
parents of that generation how they met in a localized area that's true you know and so that tradition yeah that

26:30
tradition was from their family you know their parents you know my grandparents y

26:37
you know had had this you know process of tradition yeah and you know and so I

26:42
would dare say in your lifetime you know that that has changed you know CU I

26:48
think about you folks moving away you know and uh and Megan's parents moving away your parents are still pretty well

26:56
where they were correct no my were in Minnesota now they're in Kansas City my sister moved down here with us when we

27:03
moved then she moved back to Minnesota short then a few years later my parents moved away from my sister to Kansas City

27:09
right so yeah definitely a lot of that that that's that's new yes and like you

27:15
said same with my both sides of my fames I mean it was generationally they were in the same

27:20
place doing the same things yeah yeah yeah so it's yeah so I can respect are a

27:26
little different these days how that changes and you know I this I'm not saying it's all all bad either you know

27:33
or any bad I'm just saying it's it's different which can definitely seem

27:39
difficult can seem bad if you're again if those expectations are set and you haven't really examine them you're going

27:46
to probably look for reasons why it's bad like what what's wrong with this something's not right I know what it is

27:52
it's just that or the other they're not doing this right or whatever when maybe it's worth examining H Maybe it just

27:58
really can't be what it used to be and I have to accept that I have these expectations that I can't can't be met

28:05
yep you know and I think it's important you know as I as I work with you know

28:10
couples it's I can respect how easy it is in that process of change you know to

28:18
blame you know the new daughter-in-law or the new son-in-law because it wasn't

28:24
until they came along they are the harbinger I mean you're right they are the Catalyst they're the reason things

28:30
have are changing so it's easy to look at them go it's your fault exactly absolutely and then Harbor resentment

28:36
yeah we had all of our traditions in line until you know this person came along and wrenched them out of our hands

28:44
yeah yeah yeah so it's an interesting thing to think about in that so on your side of the equation right as you're

28:50
getting close to the you know that happening close to what am I getting close to I hear you yeah it's just

28:57
that's a sobering reality to to to be looking at for you which I know you are

29:02
you are already right in the sense of this isn't about that person this is about these Seasons I mean that's why

29:08
we're having this conversation it's just very Forefront for you right now I think as part of it right yeah but yeah that's

29:17
that's the challenge if you're in that side of the equation as the parent with you know I mean even with uh Mia right

29:25
she has a friend who's a boy he's a boyfriend yet uh you know I don't I just I'm

29:33
guessing she's going to want to do something with them around Christmas of course and that's going to be new for me

29:39
new for us you know we've never had that um I know Megan like she wanted to have

29:46
Christmas day be our family and that's kind of our I mean again it's very similar to what we were just discussing

29:51
about that's kind of our day sure but at some point you know we got to start

29:56
thinking about loosening up the rains on that if necessary and yeah so it's it's

30:03
even for me it's starting to look may look different yeah and that's you know

30:09
just the difference between last year and this year yeah you know yeah every year is different except not all your

30:15
are different well and I think I think there's many differences and yet there's

30:21
many similarities to where we can actually think about you know it's like

30:26
yeah some some years are different when you think about okay we're going to alternate or we're going to go here or

30:33
you know but I think the for me for us I think in our family I think the the most

30:38
beneficial part about that has been the ability to communicate it about it ahead

30:43
of time yeah you know because then people then you're kind of recreating that expectation or at

30:52
least everybody knows what to expect a little more ahead and it gives us time to to wrap our mind around it and I'm

30:58
not saying every family has to do it that way no I think you you and your family the two sides seems like you guys

31:05
are good about thinking ahead planning ahead because I'm always I'm always

31:10
hearing about you know around this time of year this Thanksgiving time kind the plans you have for Christmas like you're

31:17
already processing it which is great not all families are like I respect that too yeah it's just

31:25
been but it's it's a good thing so if you you should attempt that you know yeah yeah just to be able to moderate

31:31
those expectations I think is a helpful thing because I think that's where some of that hurt from the holidays comes

31:37
from you know yeah assumptions assumptions what they say about assumptions yes I do yes I do do you do

31:45
you care to share umption out of you and me that's

31:50
right um no I was also thinking too like um one of the challenges of kind of the

31:58
cultural moving away type phenomena right where we don't quite have as much

32:04
centralization any more like especially as you know it's just shifting a little

32:09
bit as that happens is maybe the inverse I think you and I discussed a lot about

32:16
traditions and having them and losing them and MH but I think for some maybe

32:22
they haven't quite ever established a good set of traditions even you know and

32:27
I think that's worth the effort despite what we just all talked about like expect like there's so much value and

32:35
beauty and tradition um that I think it's still important to to invest in that and I think about like our because

32:42
again our family again we moved to North Carolina you know my sister moved down

32:48
here with us and she moved back then the parents you know moved to Kansas City your parents move away from Holly for a

32:53
reason no I'm just kidding not not at Christmas time I can't say on the air but

32:59
I hope I hope Holly listens to this uh no um no I think Holly kicked him into

33:06
Kansas City just kidding we're going to start a family conflict right here right now let

33:12
start one it's a tradition it's a tradition it's one of the Traditions Justin looks forward

33:19
to what can I stir up Justin the pot ster but yeah sorry I

33:26
didn't mean to interrupt but yes establishing good traditions for families if we haven't had them before

33:33
that's well what I was saying is like and then Megan we moved away from Megan's parents then they moved down here a few years later so Shi things

33:39
have shifted quite a few a lot over the years and I think there was a period where we really didn't have our own

33:46
traditions we kind of just what's going to work this year let's let's do that

33:52
let's figure it out and go do the thing you know try and fold into others traditions and then as we had kids and

33:59
started to we started to recognize like we want something for them you know and so we started to

34:06
establish a few key things that we always do um and I think I I guess I

34:12
would just say after talking about the the the the issues with Traditions also

34:17
mentioning how important it is to build those Traditions to have those sure memory milestones for your kids and you

34:24
know when when they read Luke 2 and they're 30 or years old right to get teared up because it's not we don't

34:31
quite do it the same anymore and I just think that's really important and again uh a big part of that for us is you know

34:37
like the Nativity and the things we do on Megan side of the family but also like um like this whole idea that the

34:44
25th we have this you know kind of chill Sunday I mean kind of the quintessential

34:50
Sunday or excuse me Christmas morning you know chill pajamas MH you know

34:56
breakfast open you know presentence sure and just enjoy our time together kind of

35:02
you know that's kind of been our desire and goal to maintain that tradition although when we travel to go see family

35:09
members you know obviously that's different and um anyway what about I was thinking about it uh as you were sharing

35:16
you know developing new because I I think uh do you what do you what do you call your Thanksgiving fall

35:22
festivities falsities yeah falsities yeah that's uh that's also a Kelly and

35:27
Jackson but that's a new a newer thing new as in there so it's a yearly thing

35:34
and we have a trophy exactly as you know it's spray painted

35:39
gold it's a block of two it's a 2×4 piece of wood spray painted gold with the pin wheel stuck in the top and then

35:45
there's a little Notch cut out and on the notch stands glued a a troll with

35:50
orange hair okay I thought it was a gnome but yeah it's a troll yeah I got you I think a troll is a cousin of a

35:56
gnome maybe either way right and on the bottom is written the names of past winners in Sharpie right so it's very

36:03
very nice looking trophy yes and uh it's got about six seven names on it now so and the winner gets to put it on their

36:09
mantle gets to also has to display it prominently for the year there you go

36:14
that's one of the conditions of winning sure and they are also responsible for naming the next winner for the next year

36:20
so nice yes yes it's a good good tradition and uh the uh criteria for

36:26
winning is not doing best at the fivi it's just having good fality cheer just

36:32
kind of good attitude you give a sportsmanship award yeah essentially yeah I remember we were there last year

36:38
and actually Linda was able to join us for that so was definitely a fun that's a great tradition yeah yeah yeah and

36:45
that was one uh speaking of creating tradition and that started in the last six years six seven years yeah so I mean

36:52
by now it's pretty established and the kids who were two when that started I mean this is their life like this is

36:58
this is their tradition this they're coming into their competition ear yeah exactly they're like I'm going to win it

37:03
they're able to throw the log a lot further than they that's right although there are some very young names on that

37:09
trophy that had that trophy cuz you know you don't have to win the log toss to the trophy exactly but yeah that's a

37:17
that's a wonderful tradition and again speaking of creating Traditions that was a Kelly and jackon jackon jackon Jack

37:24
Action Jackson action he wasn't able to be there this year here which is sad cuz you know he works on holidays now as a

37:30
park ranger but we uh somewhat I'm assuming Kelly printed a picture of his

37:35
face life-size picture of his face and taped it to the tree we usually throw the log to and you know that that was

37:42
the joke so sure we all took pictures next to the tree with his face and nice so so in spirit and in paper yeah and I

37:51
think and I think that's a a good I mean in some ways that's a good ha Mark if

37:58
you will of a healthy tradition adaptability adaptability yeah

38:05
the ability to recognize yes you know as as you know kids move and do their own

38:13
family thing you know there is there is something to be said for okay this is

38:19
this is when it's going to be yeah and if you can make it great and if you can't that's okay too it's not that we

38:25
love you any less but also understand that you know circumstances change and

38:32
you know and uh Jackson isn't going to be a a rookie park ranger you know the rest of

38:39
his life you know but at this point you know he's he's low man on the totem pole

38:44
of sorts you know and so therefore he gets that shift except on Thanksgiving

38:51
day he's the high man on the to he is in charge he is the man he is the man on

38:56
the totem Po and Christmas too is it not or does it every I think we talked with Kelly I

39:01
know I should no I don't know I think he has to work Christmas as well I think I think you're right because I think we're

39:07
we were trying to figure out when to do the yeah the meide Christmas so and that's not to say there again that that

39:14
day has you know your festivity has to be nailed to that day right but at the same time also being able to recognize

39:21
okay yeah we're not going to necessarily be able to get everybody together and

39:26
that doesn't mean that we love them any less or yeah yeah yeah and the

39:33
adaptability thing I think what's fi figuring out what's important about the TR tradition and trying to maintain that

39:40
even if you have to carry it into your the Next Generation or you know like you don't have to do it exactly the same way

39:46
we get sometimes we get really really married to the way it was exactly and and can be a little rigid but what was

39:53
important about that tradition and can you extract that into your own family system and or like you said if it's not

40:00
the same Jackson can't be there as the founder co-founder of falsities what do we do while we tape up his face to a

40:07
tree you know and I think adapting what what's important you know like and being

40:13
able to to roll forward uh I think is important too yeah um which requires a

40:19
little reflection like what does these what do these Traditions mean to me why do I care about them why do I care so

40:24
much about exactly where that tree is POS position or what seasonings on the

40:30
turkey like why is that so important to me that I get angry when they do it different and can I extract what's

40:35
important out of that into something that actually matters versus like doesn't matter where the tree is or doesn't matter what seasoning is used

40:42
right like these little things that maybe we can get hung up on because that's not how Grandpa did it you know

40:48
sure does that make sense no it makes perfect sense yeah but yeah that's why this I mean this season is so jolly

40:56
right so festive so happy and yet you know I think the reality is it's it's

41:01
not as much as we paint it I think it's a challenging time of the year and I think all these things we discussed is

41:07
part of it um and yeah families changing moving on which is the natural course of

41:13
life I mean that's MH you know your kids are in your house 18 years maybe right

41:18
yeah and so maybe within that window there's some uniformity and then things

41:24
start shifting right well I think you bring up a good point there too cuz I think you know so often we can we can

41:31
think about that influence and relationship in a as a matter of you know 18 20 years if we're lucky yeah you

41:38
know that kind of thing and you know the whole I remember you know Generations the whole time matters you know the the

41:44
the marbles in the jar type thing and you know you only have so many marbles left and the older I get the less I the

41:55
less anxious I get about that time you know as far as that influence and

42:01
granted you know yes I have less influence I'm not you know but yet I respect the fact that yeah there's still

42:09
that opportunity of influence you know and I think I thought about it I I just happened to think about it the other day

42:15
it was like you know it's it's John's jonza you know got

42:22
his own business doing his own thing you know and proud of him couldn't you know

42:28
that whole process but it was just interesting cuz there was a moment where something didn't go quite the way he had

42:35
anticipated so you know he you know he called me up and said hey what's your thoughts on this you know he wasn't

42:41
panicked or anything you know it's like you know I'm just thinking and it's like that's that's you know yeah that's

42:48
outside of that 18-year influence or 18yearold window where you just

42:54
basically have the ability to still call up your you know hopefully call up your

42:59
parent and and and say my dad and I we were talking about the other day it's like oh shucks you know mom's not here

43:06
because there was somebody that we were talking about at a having to be at a funeral it's like well is that their

43:11
daughter and it's like Mom would have known mom would have known you know it's like Dad and I were both saying ah dad

43:17
was saying and I don't think that's their daughter and I was thinking I think that was their daughter and it's like you know Mom would have been there

43:23
but you know solved it she would have solved it right but you know so that that has changed you know and I think

43:29
about it you know that that but still my dad and I had the conversation and you know and John and I still have the

43:35
conversations as far as that goes and I think that's the we don't necessarily that influence doesn't necessarily just

43:42
go away just cut off if it does it arguably maybe something wasn't done

43:47
correctly yeah and I think you know don't get me wrong I'm not opposed to being intentional with our family time

43:54
while we have that influence and I think you know parents are the greatest influence and we need to be mindful of

44:00
how we you know Steed that time but yet you know I don't think it's a matter of

44:07
you know the whole urgency of I only have this much time yeah and then

44:13
suddenly you know my child's going to dissipate you know when they turn 18 type stuff granted their their lives

44:20
they they develop their own lives they do their own thing but yeah yeah you might be singing a different tune in two

44:26
years or whatever we'll revisit I could be no I I that's one of the things I

44:33
appreciate about you know you being about 10 years ahead or whatever in life your kids all that kind of stuff is I

44:39
get to kind of see how think you know see a little bit into my future right in some senses obviously your family's

44:46
different stages it's helpful to kind of see some of these things and even what you're saying like oh the minute they

44:53
you know graduate high school or whatever it's not uh turn off the flow

44:58
of conversation and I think um I think one thing that I you know I'm taking

45:04
away from that but also I think generally was good advice is like parent

45:10
now for that future like if you're just a jerk right now or you're you know

45:17
super strict and you know I don't know just whatever version of bad parenting

45:22
if you do that now your chances of having that ongoing open conversation

45:27
relationship the rest of your life diminish right there might be a point where they they're essentially good ridds right

45:35
yeah where you know I don't mind or the other end would be needy you know yeah

45:41
I'm just looking at that a Contin you can have both yeah where you're like man I sure wish they'd you know move away

45:47
and go to college and do something and and then the other side's like you know you can't go away you know it's it's

45:54
dangerous world out there you know you got to stay here it's like so all of those versions are poor unhealthy

46:02
relationships versions and I would argue for like parent now for that future sure

46:08
uh where you have a good relationship through the course of your life and I've also um you know you know as to the

46:16
influence I'm still seeing you influenced by your mom right like we're talking about it right like she's gone

46:22
she's passed on and yet her influence continues on in your life you know see that the rest of your life I know it

46:28
like I just and even in the course of her death and all of that process of going to the funeral and all those

46:34
things like just I feel like there was like this boost of influence in your

46:40
life from her life through that whole period right and even your dad as well like as as you came to appreciate and

46:47
recognize a lot of those things in your family and sure um I think there's something to be said for that too like

46:54
live in such a way to where when you pass away You're Still influencing your your child you know I think there's

47:00
something to be said for that and then the last thing I was thinking about as you were talking is you know John

47:06
calling you up asking for business advice or whatever and at the same time I've seen it wasn't business advice he

47:12
know that's his mom's job no but it was you know just a technical thing yeah technical advice excuse me pardon me I

47:19
got that wrong it's okay I got I got to clarify cuz I'm not the business end I'll be the first to admit it all right

47:25
good good to know I won't go to you for business advice yeah if you need business talk with Chris talk with John

47:31
but you know technical stuff I can maybe help but yeah goad sorry technical advice plenty of times so I understand

47:37
that no but I've seen the the table flip a little bit where you've called John up

47:43
you know the other day we were looking at this heater thing and got for my garage you're like let me call John up because you know John's got expertise

47:49
when it he is an expert he is literally an electrician so yeah um you know

47:56
that's the influence can start to flow both ways yes exactly and that's a u

48:02
maybe an opportunity that can be mised or maybe us be too prideful to recognize

48:07
like I can start experiencing them influencing me once you know like we can start Shifting the tables a little bit

48:14
and that's also a really cool benefit and really cool uh opportunity in that

48:20
transition sure right and again I'm watching you I'm learning I'm going oh

48:26
interesting you know at some point I might be asking juel you know like what do you think about this thing and I'm

48:31
like that's I really like that idea and I like you know again shifting my

48:37
parenting right now to think about that and to accommodate for that and you know

48:42
sharing that spreading that on to the listener hopefully like there's an opportunity there in the future where

48:47
you're not the sole expert in the relationship and no doubt you know they have an opportunity to influence you and

48:52
even as they influence you you broaden your ability to influence them as you

48:58
listen as you're not too prideful to take in what they have to offer as you're able to exchange how I see it

49:05
conversations where they can share how they see it you can listen and share how you see it and kind of have a respectful

49:12
conversation you increase your ability to influence them even more as you listen as you take in what they're

49:17
learning growing seeing yeah and of course you know there's going to be a lot of things they learn the hard way

49:23
and their perspective is going to be immature and you can you you could kind of like oh you're just dumb or immature

49:29
you haven't learned yet or you could just listen and say that's interesting yeah I remember I remember that too yeah

49:34
yeah yeah that's a tough one you know that kind of thing yeah cuz I'm learning that a little bit too even with Mia and

49:41
like some of our social struggles you know just going I could sometimes you

49:47
know it's a challenge not to just go well stop doing that thing and just go you know that is tough that is tough I

49:53
remember that that was tough and I've had to use that a lot you know just in

49:58
the sense of having empathy and not trying to swoop in and say well it's the answer is this simple cuz it's really

50:05
not I mean it feels like it is from my perspective cuz but it's not you know yep and I think it's even that you know

50:12
as as you think about it not being that simple you know I think as you know you

50:17
know the people that have lost loved ones in the process of the year you know

50:22
that's not necessary or you know in recent years and years past and you know not that simple as far as you know being

50:29
able to because I you were you were talking about um my mom and the influence and that kind of thing and I

50:36
there's this idea if you will that you know there's actually two deaths when

50:41
you think of a person's physical death M and then there's the time when there there comes a time when their name is no

50:47
longer mentioned right you know and I think that's when you know that influence and so yes people have that

50:55
influence you know for years after you know they have you know passed on or

51:01
passed away that kind of thing it's it's interesting it's well that reminds me of that country western song you know I

51:07
hear voices all the time it's about you know this kid growing up and he hears his grandfather say or he hears his

51:13
father say these things you know and I you know it's it's a it's a pun or you

51:19
know play on words based on you know mental health but it's still it's reality yeah in that sense of the things

51:26
that we hear or yeah when we look back how many of those Traditions or phrases

51:33
or Yeah Yeah from the mind we're so self-centered right I mean just

51:39
typically as humans I'm not saying you or me or you know I'm just saying generally we have this outward view like

51:46
I'm the central center of the universe right I hear you and so this concept that people will forget my name is very

51:52
offensive ah hear you and yet no it's reality that's once you go in the ground you have a

51:58
limited time so again kind of rethinking beginning with the ended mind and and

52:04
well how can I parent now to where that's not such a big deal is it's really about I

52:11
think you know who you are becoming who they are like the essence of what you've

52:17
learned and grown and the things that your principles and all that being able to distill them in such a way that that

52:22
is who my kids become not so much that they give me the the credit or that my name is mentioned although hopefully

52:30
they hear voices in their head too it's me saying these good wise things right not not the mean you know critical

52:36
things Al those those may be there too hopefully the balances yeah exactly but

52:41
I hope you know they would have the same go you know desires the same

52:47
learning you know it's kind of some of the stuff we talked about last week even which may or may not be released but

52:54
this idea deps on the order of releasing but yes yeah but yeah what do you think no

52:59
that's uh that's good stuff and you know I appreciate uh yeah I appreciate those

53:06
who I have learned from and I'm happy to be able to uh point out areas as where

53:12
I've failed and hopefully you know you're able to see I can hopefully point out areas that I would do differently

53:18
and hopefully you're able to see areas that you would say no I may want to do it like that and whether I'm aware of

53:24
that or not that kind of thing yeah yeah it's I think there's something to be said for you know somebody you know

53:31
somebody above and somebody below you know somebody that's you know investing in you and somebody that you're also

53:38
investing in and I think you know I think in a lot of cases that is God's

53:43
design for family you know is that we have grandparents and parents and you

53:50
know and then it will eventually become you know parents and grandparents and

53:55
that that above and below it's still kind of you know part of that yeah

54:01
discipleship model if you will yeah also the SE it's a seasonal

54:07
model it's very you know it follows after seasons and sure um but yeah yeah

54:14
uh I think this is very this is a great conversation a great hopefully a great episode for you as you had into the

54:20
holidays and maybe cut it off at the past some of those expectations and maybe maybe readjust a little bit start

54:27
bringing in into the holiday some of the begin with the end in mind concepts of sure you know what do I want my kids to

54:34
appreciate in 20 years versus you know what do I want right now and what do they want right now versus what are they

54:40
going to appreciate in 20 years yeah right cuz they're not always the same and sometimes those Traditions aren't

54:45
what the kids want right now right they want to play in their game boy or wow it dated myself that switch Nintendo switch

54:53
when you're saying no it's time to do the Nativity or read Luke or whatever yeah and remember what's important 20

54:59
years is not that they had Nintendo switch time it won't be the present right yeah I hear you so just something

55:05
to yeah some some Concepts some ideas to bring into your yeah just some food yeah

55:11
for me too yeah so depending on uh depending on when this is released uh on

55:17
behalf of how we see it we hope you and your families you Justin as well and your family have a have a wonderful now

55:25
Christmas com and you know thankful for the Thanksgiving that we've been able to have but uh know that we value and

55:32
appreciate you as our listeners and IU Justin in the in the process of being able to do how we see it that's right

55:39
same here very appreciative for all of us and Merry Christmas Merry Christmas this

55:46
is how we see it and happy Hanukah that's you that's indeed did we miss any

55:51
what likely so um I can't think of any but I'm sure yeah

55:56
yes blessings to you and your family this is how we see [Music]

56:05
it hey thank you for listening to our podcast if you like how I see it please

56:11
do all the things that podcasts tell you to do subscribe rate review follow us uh

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56:42
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