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[Music] welcome to how I see it with me Mark

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Pratt and Justin Sternberg this is a podcast that works to

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countercultural polarization through thoughtful [Music]

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conversations here we go hey good morning Justin good morning Mr Mark good

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to see you I am well thank you I am well as well you should tell the uh the

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audience that you brought your slippers over here for a permanent stay I did I did I have my SL childhood slippers here

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practically they just uh they've been living in the back of my closet for a long time and this is a your office is a

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good spot for them to stay yeah I've been enduring the smell yeah well I appreciate

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that yeah no smell uh but yeah just making ourselves at home uh today we're

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going to talk a little bit about humor yes we

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[Laughter] are I like that forc laughter it made me

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laugh no that wasn't that was it that was it all right I just yeah laughter is

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good it is good yeah [Music]

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yeah I guess my big question to you mark why is this topic so important oh I

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think it's I think it's important to me um because I think we can lose sight

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of humor in the process of our busy lives and I it's it's it's even a

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personal goal I think of mine to add

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humor specif in to be intentional about adding moments of

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humor into my day and I I I don't think uh it's it's probably

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been it's been a couple months or so um Chris and I my wife and I were talking

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about uh wishing we hadn't taken life so seriously when our kids were younger you

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know I think I think overtime taking ourselves less

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seriously um has increased our desire for humor

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you know how does that play out like like what are some things that

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practically speaking that you could have seen it be different I'm just curious as I I don't know well I think I think in a

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lot of cases um when when we were talking in that process with our kids we

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even like aspects of discipline or when somebody was in trouble you know it was

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a serious moment you know and everybody had to feel the weight of what they did

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you know that kind of thing and I just in hindsight I that's not had I known that

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wouldn't have been the uh an environment I wanted to create you know in this aspect of you

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know shame and guilt I just you know I don't think it's as powerful as we might

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think it is but I think humor has the ability the ability to laugh at yourself

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when you make a mistake not laugh at hurting other people there's a big difference there and I'm not sure our

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culture always you know understands that or does that well but you know to to

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actually make life a little lighter at times because I think it has the tendency to

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be heavy enough on its own mhm what about for you well good I mean yeah it's

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in terms of answering the question I have some thoughts but I also just thinking about humor in our family and

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that kind of thing and um I think there's also a balance on the other side where um our our family can be a little

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sarcastic okay sure and sometimes it's really funny uh like my middle daughter

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yeah she can pull out some zingers and you know perfectly timed dead pain can

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and it's funny and then there are other times when she does it and the context isn't appropriate sure and so we're like

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and I and just so you know that the sarcasm doesn't come from Megan she didn't learn it from Megan so I'm I'm

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trying to figure out how to like balance that and like appreciate it but also not

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um help her to understand the context of when it's acceptable and how would you define the difference between humor and

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sarcasm well make sarcasm can be humorous right I think I think I I don't

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think they're mutually exclusive okay but I believe that sarcasm has a lot

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higher danger Factor than just you know the word humor right like I think um I think sarcasm is

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a form of humor and used right can bring levity to some serious moments kind of

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even thinking about what you were just talking about how sometimes my kids will do something and I'll be a little sarcastic about you

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know about how they should do it different and rather than like going

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into this severe reprimand mode yeah I kind of just tweak at him like tease a

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little bit and I I mean I'd love to have an objective uh listener sometimes

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because I think sometimes it's too much you know sometimes it's it trans it shifts over to kind of that dangerous is

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sarcasm and to me the difference there is when that person basically are you

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making the situation Better or Worse yeah you know and sarcasm often

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has the capability and potential for making the situation worse for the

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person you're being sarcastic to at the you know at their expense right where other people you know around the

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situation or even myself the the person being sarcastic feels like you know

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we're getting some social mileage out of that joke or that sarcasm the person directed I'm directing it to not so much

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right like exactly and I think that's the difference for me sure and but I

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also I think sarcasm can be an a nice form of humor if done right to the point

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where the person receiving it feels like that at least feels better than the

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alternative which might be a sign you know serious reprimand or whatever and a

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more of a playful like hey remember do this thing kind of yeah and I'm I'm

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thinking about would you would you say teasing and sarcasm are the same or CU

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I'm I'm I'm thinking of that Nuance between humor we can kid we can tease

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and then it for me in that spectrum that Continuum if you will sarcasm might go

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just a little further than those things and I and I I think and for me I think

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in our between Chris and I I I would recognize that

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sarcasm is is likely you know kind of off limits to us and I think that's you

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know that's why I'm asking the questions to a certain degree because I think you know there is a cost to someone in

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sarcasm whereas I see humor no no one has to pay a price we can both you know interact with

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that and it's okay to laugh and it's okay for us to have fun and there's no

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cost to an individual when humor is involved but I also recognize there's room for kidding

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and teasing and these you know these personal like interactions of a family

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where yeah I I I can think of you know some words that I don't say well you

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know and my family knows those words and you know when I which ones Mark yeah I

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have to work at it but parlor is a word that is typically hard for me to say

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okay you said you said it amazingly well I had to enunciate because I have to

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think about it but yeah you know that would that's one of those words but yes over time that has probably gone from

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more of a teasing to a humor that I'm able to yeah say okay yeah I can I don't

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have to take myself so seriously you know and yeah I have these

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weaknesses these things that I you know do full pause whatever you want to call

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them that I have and it and it's okay and I think I think time has developed

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that more where I I don't take myself as seriously as I used to and I think that's part of the reason Chris and I

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were having the conversation is we wish we hadn't taken ourselves so seriously

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as young parents yeah did do you do you feel like I guess what what would you

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say is the reason that you felt that was necessary or was it just default I think it a default I think it

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was uh I think it was we were parenting in some ways the way we were parented

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yeah you know and I I think you know growing up yeah you know to a certain

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degree you know life was serious or it seemed as if it was and I I can remember

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you know times just just kind of getting out and going for I mean

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disconnecting maybe at times to even get out of the seriousness of what was going

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on W you know that kind of within the household I mean yeah and I and I think

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you know for for Chris you know in that process I think her background would

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have been very similar yeah you know to where yeah you know family meetings and

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stuff like that you know it's like oh something serious is going to happen you know you never had a family meeting for

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for a fun time yeah you know yeah you didn't but yeah so yeah that that's I

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think that's kind of the thing and you know so yeah call it default call it transgenerational parenting skills

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whatever yeah you know that's kind of what it I think where it came from and some of that is generational right like

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uh especially uh parents or you know people grew up in the Great Depression I mean there yeah that was a sobering time

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and you know everything like you said was serious and so yeah I think that because I know my parents parents you

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know grew up in the Great Depression and there was no humor in that generation I

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mean it wasn't fun very right and I don't blame them of course I mean I can't imag

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I like the generational perspective on that because it takes out that blame we

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can understand where that seriousness of Life comes from MH and

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yeah it's just a interesting it's also changeable right like when I can

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recognize oh that was a product of you know right for instance the Great Depression sure and I'm not going

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through the Great Depression I don't have to mirror that serious

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you know yeah we're not in the midst of that right now right so there's no need

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for that default Behavior default Behavior exactly yeah yeah but life's still hard

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and I think that's uh you know you ask me why do I think it's an important topic yeah I think that's exactly why I

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think life is serious life is sobering and you know just just yesterday I got a

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text about someone that we knew and you know very much appreciate in

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Minnesota uh like a close family friend um he got in a car accident oh wow and

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so hear that yeah and then he got out of his car after it and got hit by another

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car wow and he's in the hospital and and I think about you know that stuff

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happens yes it does more than we want them to right like and if if it's not

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happening to me then there's someone close by right yeah and and life's hard

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like life is sobering we get news like that on a regular basis and that's not even including if you're if you have

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partake in a diet of daily news right like which is a whole another aspect and

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you know we can have a talk a different day about our thoughts on that but um there's just a lot of negativity in life

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and it's just cuz life life can be hard or you know your kids come home from school and their grades aren't what they

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are they're supposed to be or they got in a fight or something at school and and so our brain immediately goes to a

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dark place of like a now I got to deal with this and how you know am I a bad

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parent or you know at work right work something happens you don't meet the deadline and you know life's hard right

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right and so that's to me why is it important I think it's important to maintain a proper balance in our mind

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and sure you know you talk you use the phrase taking ourselves too seriously and I think that's a big part of it is

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just recognizing that there is room for humor in my struggles to be intentional

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about adding time for or not taking life or myself so

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seriously yeah in those moments and to be honest I think it

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requires some levels of personal leadership to be able to laugh at myself

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or because what it requires is it requires me to be able to kind of float

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above myself right like and look into the situation sure without being in it

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and go you know this actually is kind of funny or I bet in 20 years I'm going to

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laugh at this and yeah even be able to make that comment right now to bring some levity right now to say you know 20

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years I might laugh at this right now it sucks you exactly you know what I mean um perspective yes hey yeah how I see it

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that's how I see it no but yeah that ability to recognize okay this is momentary

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mhm yeah and I can still be in this moment and recognize that yeah it it it

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likely is not as serious as I might want to think it is MH But there again it

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just kind of comes back to that ability to have that desire to see things

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differently yeah versus and I think it I think it can come back to you know defensiveness you know was I was I was I

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wronged yeah you know those kind of things I think those those moments it's

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harder to you know have humor because we have to extend that to other people you

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know but I still think it's beneficial yeah absolutely yeah just because it's hard doesn't mean it's yeah I mean it's

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kind of like our kids you know like what you're saying with our kids I think sometimes if we can flip the switch from

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anger and disappointment yeah to a little bit of humor and yeah I I do like that you

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mention the Nuance between sarcasm and teasing because I do think there's a difference and I think probably most of

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what I was saying as sarcasm is is teasing but those lines can get blurred

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obviously no I hear you yeah and and I'll be honest that's what it sounded

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like to me in that process cuz I I think of when I think of

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sarcasm I think of great job Justin right yeah you know what I mean where

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I'm really I'm just putting a dig in there at you yeah and I'm trying to make

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it humorous yeah but yeah there's no humor in that yeah and if anything all

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I've done is undermine your ability to say was Mark

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being humorous was he being funny or was he being sarcastic and he thinks I just

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did a terrible job yeah and then that impacts that relationship and I think

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that's why it's important for me when we think about the difference between humor

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and sarcasm because I think you know our our culture if we want to think about it

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from the aspect of the Great Depression I would dare say our culture today is

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very sarcastic yeah and we and we and

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mask that with oh I was just kidding yeah you know and I mean yeah so that's

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that's why for me personally it's important to decipher yeah you know I so

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an example of sarcasm which you you might say this that's probably not a good that's totally okay but I think

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about like my son and sometimes he'll forget stuff right and I can get

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frustrated for the 50th time this week that he forgot something where I can go hey Joseph did are you trying to warm

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this milk up for tomorrow or you put it in the fridge and I'll have a little you know twinkle in my eye right and I'll

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look at him and he'll get a big smile on his face he'll get up he'll go put it in away you know and it's

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like that's sarcasm I hear you teasing it's you know but um I like to think

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that it's a better it's it's better for me to handle it that way than the way my natural instinct is like

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to get frustrated get on them again and I also like to think that they

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remember it better like it it hits home a little different right where it's not nagging and again it um I don't know and

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I also very much feel and again I think there are tradeoffs to the to these

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approaches so I'm not I'm not condoning it blch is

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that yeah car BL yeah parlor parlor

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parlor whatever that word is I'm not condoning it without any caveats right

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Crick yeah yeah don't don't me get me started uh caveats cart Blanc caveats

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cart Blanc yeah exactly uh because again I've seen my kids well

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okay one of the good benefits that I've seen due to this kind of humor m is that

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my kids are very smart and nuanced in

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understanding that kind of humor and also are kind of exhibit that same

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intelligence in their humor towards others and again MH sometimes they

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demonstrate their lack of intelligence in their choices of when to use sure humor but I'm often very

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like kind of taken a back about like some of the Nuance humor they use and

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how funny they are and also how they can recognize Nuance situations as a result

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of that and where uh I guess the counterbalance to that would be some

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families I grew up around were very sheltered kind of had that home school

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Vibe yeah and just very pure right like that's a

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good thing I guess but they couldn't understand nuances of humor and it was

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like I can't it's hard to explain but it felt

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like there wasn't an emotional intelligence there yeah and does that make sense yeah it makes perfect sense

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cuz when you were talking about your kids I'm thinking along that line of

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Developmental humor you know how how humor is developmental to a certain

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degree based on how I grow up yeah and you know because yeah you're you're your

20:58
young kid kids are going to say things that aren't appropriate in a desire to

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create a sense of humor MH you know but they're just developing it you know and

21:09
adolesence are the same way and I and I was thinking about it from a developmental standpoint I think looking

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back having had the development that I did that's what makes good humor all the

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more valuable to me yeah because I do think of those times maybe when I was

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trying to tease or I was trying to even use genuine sarcasm that I said Shucks I

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probably shouldn't have said that I didn't need to say that you know in that moment and that's looking back and now

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it's like okay now I can really value Good Humor the ability well like like

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you and I to laugh with one another in such a way that says yeah life is

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serious but we can rise above it maybe to a certain degree because we have hope

22:06
yeah yeah and relationship yeah I think that's a key part

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of humor I mean there's different kinds of humor obviously and there's kind of

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presentational humor that's just meant to be you know funny at no one's expense kind of thing and then there's

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relational humor which is kind of like we're talking about teasing ribbing that kind of thing and I those things can

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fall short if the relationship isn't there right yes and uh the investment in

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that relationship hasn't been built and then it feels very much at the expense and even when you've have have a a

22:41
significant relationship that you invested time you can humor can still feel like at their expense I'm just

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saying part of relational growth is a humor you know ideally ideally sure uh a

22:56
humor can come into play to the I know you and I like we'll tease each other about different things and and um and I

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I think that's a great way to say I see you sure right yeah and I still love you

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yep I I appreciate all the quirks the Nuance you know what I mean yeah I feel

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like humor Done Right can say all that humor done wrong can go the other direction of course yeah you know but

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yeah and that's where I think it like it does come back to a developmental

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learning how and how humor can be used appropriately and and used well I think

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about people when you you mention relationship I think about I enjoy being

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around people who have that ability to make me laugh you know you're just

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attracted to people who have a good sense of humor yeah that's good that's

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really good um if you don't mind real quick I'll give it a background on yeah go ahead

24:03
where this topic came to be um when it was last year I started reading this

24:10
book called humor seriously why humor is a secret weapon in business in life and

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uh I don't remember who recommended it but I saw it and I was like that and and my work my career has transitioned a

24:24
little bit to a little bit more leadership management type stuff and so I'm like all of that feels so kind of heavy to me

24:33
yeah and when I saw this I'm like I like what I hear in this title like I haven't even read the book but I like like to be

24:40
like this yes yes and so right there my like the gear started turning even just

24:46
reading the title of the book my gear started turning about how valuable it was in my career and different ways I

24:53
could I guess encourage that and then you know started reading the book and it was really really good and there's a lot

24:58
of good things in there but U and then as a result um I were like we've talked

25:04
about before I was very involved in Celebrate Recovery I was leading that program and we were had a Leadership

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Retreat scheduled and so this was an opportunity for all of us to get away and rejuvenate right like after being

25:18
Volunteers in in a recovery Ministry for a year you know years some of us to be

25:23
able to kind of separate from that and go off together and have a good time relax

25:28
Retreat right sure and so I was like this would be a perfect topic to cover

25:35
in that environment cuz number one it's about Rejuvenation and kind of you know of retreat right yeah but also number

25:41
two recovery is so I mean think about it

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it's sobering right no pun intended or a little bit of pun intend okay I mean

25:53
that's the thing though like sobriety is a serious topic and the reason it's so

25:59
serious is because of the consequences of those habits right sure it produces

26:05
really dire consequences in our lives often typically shame and guilt though

26:11
yes yeah right I would say those are uh those are the the consequences that come

26:17
as a result of the other consequences right like sure once cuz another words

26:22
when when you start doing a drug or or getting drunk on a regular basis it feels pretty good at first and you

26:28
probably aren't filled with shame and you probably aren whatever but then the consequences start hitting right and

26:34
then you're like oh crap maybe I have a problem and then now the shame the guilt and all that right sure your bio

26:41
feedback loops yeah yeah yeah the point is it's it's not associated with humor

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the idea of sobriety so the whole concept of how can we bring this back into recovery and how can we make sure

26:56
that we understand the value of it um was something that um was what that

27:01
presentation was about so some some of my notes and stuff come from that but um that was a really fun thing to go over

27:09
and you know part of the that whole weekend before every talk um we had

27:15
everyone read a couple dad jokes right yeah like everyone had to bring a few dad jokes and uh oh Mark was there by

27:21
the way that was he brought the best dad jokes no no no I can still remember them though they're good yeah yeah all right

27:28
give us one oh what oh you're putting me right on the spot what did

27:34
the a Shucks there was a it was a green what what did the

27:41
uh oh that's right what did the green grape say to the purple

27:47
grape I can't remember breathe darn it

27:52
breathe that's right it requires all of that uh yeah

27:59
that's pretty funny yeah one of my favorite stupid dad jokes well I have two uh the first one is uh what is brown

28:07
and sticky you want me to answer it you been to a stick a

28:15
stick terrible all right then my other one that's stupid that cracks me up

28:20
every time what do a general keep his armies oh I uh oh all right in his sley

28:28
his SLE andies that's right that's right anyway so we we required everyone

28:35
to bring stupid dad jokes like that and read them out loud and that was a blast like it really I feel like it changed

28:42
the whole weekend sure you know they added levity yes levity yep yeah and

28:49
that's uh it's interesting you bring up that word because that was one of the things we talked about what's the

28:54
difference between humor and levity what are your thoughts mark ah humor and

29:01
levity I would say from my perspective levity is generated by Good

29:10
Humor to a certain degree I I think levity is that ability well maybe it's

29:16
that definition of what you were describing when we're able to rise above

29:22
the circumstance there's there's a lightness that I feel as opposed to the heaviness

29:30
of my current circumstance and I think uh I think it's interesting you bring it up in CR

29:37
because and I think in some ways this is what makes this topic um important to me

29:43
because I I recognize the power of humor and yet in a therapeutic setting I

29:50
realize how powerful that can be and I think it's part of what makes this topic

29:55
so sensitive to me you know in that in that when you're working with someone who's experienced

30:03
trauma or you know it's like life is serious yeah you know and that kind so I

30:10
think there there's probably a a a bond that we share in that desire like

30:16
through CR through therapeutic and I and I think you know in that process of

30:21
levity that's a that's a that's a gift that you can offer someone when you're

30:28
able to help them rise above yeah and it's a gift because it's it's

30:37
something that you can offer but they don't have to accept it even it's a

30:45
choice and I don't say that in the sense you know like someone who's gone through trauma I'm not saying you know you're

30:51
choosing to stay there no but I think it's it's part of a process that allows

30:58
to say okay I see how staying in this

31:03
seriousness it's a Ser like your friend it's a serious circumstance but

31:09
hopefully in hindsight as as he progresses and heals yeah it can be

31:16
something that is he's able to say you know yeah that was that was that was so

31:23
weird you know I was just getting out of my car and all of the sudden I just

31:28
felt like I was moving and I didn't even know why you know that kind from the impact of it so you know having that

31:35
experience and I think levity is a gift and I think it can come from or is a

31:42
result of positive humor good humor that is

31:47
that is well timed that is you know yeah developed yeah because I don't think you

31:54
know I think sometimes um well I think of nervous

32:00
laughter sometimes you know when we're in one of those situations where we're not sure what to do or that's so serious

32:09
we just kind of start laughing and it's almost be that that wasn't no but yeah it it can

32:18
be like that yeah you know when a when a topic is serious so I think yeah yeah

32:23
it's good that's a long answer to to levity but that's okay I you know one

32:30
one of the things I appreciate about appreciate about the idea of levity versus humor is that you don't have to

32:36
be funny to have levity right it means you can Embrace

32:42
humor it means you can embrace the humor in the situation it means when there's humor going around you know you don't

32:50
have an inclination to put a wet blanket on it like all right let's get back to being serious right sure and I think uh

32:57
I think think anybody can learn the value of levity not everyone can be funny and

33:06
that's okay you know what I'm saying yeah that that the world doesn't need everyone to be a comedian true but if

33:13
everyone had an a a spirit an attitude of levity in life I think the whole

33:19
world would benefit like I don't you know what I mean I do I do and of course levity so one of my favorite quotes

33:28
um I'll just say yeah I'll read one one of my favorite quotes from that book is yeah at every turn our findings

33:34
challenge the false dichotomy between gravity and levity and uncover the

33:39
profound benefits of a life fueled by levity if there's one thing our research makes clear it's that we don't need to

33:46
take ourselves so seriously in order to Grapple with serious things and I thought that was so good

33:53
because life's going to be hard and you're going to have to deal with serious things it does not require you

33:59
to turn into this hard yeah person who can you know it's it's a tool to help balance

34:06
that just uh just on that quote fueled by

34:12
levity what is the fuel of levity as far as you're

34:17
concerned how what is that how how does a person I realize I'm putting you

34:24
on the spot but I'm just thinking about it from that aspect of how how does a person get fuel or what is the fuel of

34:33
levity as you'd see it for those people who have that ability to you know

34:39
lighten a situation or rise above what is that for

34:45
you like what does it practically look like to be fueled by levity yeah or to

34:50
how do you how do you gain the if I'm looking at fuel for a source of levity

34:56
where does that fuel will come from and what is it well if I understand this

35:02
quote the levity is the fuel the levity is the thing that you

35:07
put in your tank that makes you go uhhuh right so there's not a thing before

35:12
levity that you put in to to to then produce levity although that might be

35:18
what you're asking that's what I'm asking that's very much what I'm ask FS the fuel what fuels that ability to have

35:26
levity because I think levity is something that I bring with me in and of itself yeah

35:35
but good question yeah um well I think for starters it's very

35:43
much like you said where it's a learned behavior and it's Developmental and I

35:49
think having levity as the instinctual reaction to a situation comes with time

35:56
and effort right sure and I I also think going back to relationship having

36:02
relationship with people who we can trust and that we love um and to be able to have that

36:10
happening in that relationship can help teach it I think without a strong

36:16
relationship where humor is used well I I don't even know how you learn it how

36:21
to use it well I mean I guess you can yeah you can you can view it from afar

36:26
right like see how your boss treats you or whatever like make y but it really does come down to relationship and and

36:33
seeing it demonstrated in in others towards me and or towards others to see oh that was that was good Le like that

36:41
was yep that was that's how I want to be you know yeah um and and that's that's

36:47
the key thing too about levity versus humor is this idea that I can look at a thing and I can go that's how I want to

36:53
be that doesn't mean I have to learn how to be funny like that person I don't

36:58
have to be them yeah yeah yeah but I can Embrace this light lightheartedness you

37:05
know that's what levity means right leev levitation like bringing us floating

37:11
Rising yeah this idea of like light heartedness versus heaviness yeah and

37:18
and I think it's it's really it's as we're talking it's it's really interesting to think about because

37:25
honestly Robin Williams comes to mind for me MH you follow me if you were to

37:31
view if as I viewed his life from the outside as you said from afar yeah you

37:39
know it's like who wouldn't want to be friends with that guy when he was living you know what I'm saying Mrs Doubtfire

37:46
all that good stuff you know it's like and yeah I recognize

37:51
how I'm not sure that that was his entire life mhm and I think you know

37:57
there's something to be said for that ability to be able to say okay the

38:03
balance the balance yep how do we always have to bring levity with us into the

38:09
room maybe not right right and yet at the time at at any given time it's part

38:17
of who we are and it can be pulled out as a as a gift as a as a tool in a

38:25
positive sense to be able it's a resource that's a better word for it that I have in my repertoire to be able

38:32
to bring out when it's appropriate Y and yet it's not a mask that I put on and

38:41
inside I'm just there is no levity and everything is serious and there's this performance and you know that I have to

38:48
produce you know like from a CO comedian type perspective yeah especially in

38:54
light of Robin Williams you ended up you know committing suicide side clearly

38:59
there's a disconnect between that levity in front of them and whatever is going

39:05
on right in his mind and um yeah I love that because you're basically talking

39:12
once again about the balance of humor and when it can be bad right and I think

39:18
you know we already talked about how when it comes at the expense of others yes right and it hurts someone in the

39:24
process then it's it's bad right and then another example was when I'm using it to mask who I really am right when

39:31
I'm using it as a deflection as a defense system to keep you from getting at the real me or worse like I I'd love

39:39
you to know the real me I just don't know how to get to it because I always put this in front of me yep you know and

39:45
it feels like even when things are starting to get real yeah I get nervous

39:50
and instead of nervous laughter I bring in a joke or whatever and it I shift it right and that's what humor can go too

39:58
far and that's when instead of increasing a relationship it creates division right it creates y um because I

40:07
think there's a point where our nervousness just makes us talk sometimes and we end up going to the nonsensical

40:15
to a certain degree or that that nervous humor that's saying you know yeah it's

40:20
just it's just as you describe that it's like certain circumstances come to my own mind as far as you know yeah I

40:27
that's a that can be something that I observe it's like and it's and it's okay

40:33
to be nervous and just say okay I'm nervous and when I get that way I tend

40:41
to talk and what I might say really might not even make sense but it's just

40:47
I'm I'm uncomfortable with silence yeah not me personally but yeah being

40:55
able to admit that yeah and that's and I but there again I think

41:01
that is a great opportunity for humor to be involved when other people are

41:06
uncomfortable with the silence around them and to be able to say you know

41:12
something that offers levity when all those around me are feeling that

41:17
nervousness or that you know and yet there again it's not something I

41:23
have to do but it's something I can offer mhm and and being able to

41:29
recognize that life doesn't have to be serious all the time but yet there's moments that are serious yeah and I

41:37
think that's where humor can be or is a gift that we have to offer and I think that's what makes it important to you

41:43
and I yeah it's very good I mean as you were talking I was just thinking about

41:50
um the difference between being you know in the perceived place of power versus a

41:55
perceived place of uh the other side whatever that is right so even thinking about like counseling

42:02
ther therapy that kind of thing as it's a gift as the counselor to give that

42:10
right that levity and whereas the other side is often like like we said a

42:15
defense mechanism of feeling nervous it might be like making a joke and it takes it takes you out of the moment but on

42:22
the other side of that as the person kind of probing or whatever to breathe air into that situation through humor

42:30
sure or to provide that opportunity to take some yeah you know some of the

42:35
pressure the air pressure out and relieve a little bit of it through a little joke here and there is a good

42:41
thing I think yeah and I what you uh what you describe to me is that

42:47
definition of humor to the point that there's there's always a little bit of

42:53
Truth in all humor and I think that's a normalization process process that you

42:58
know when we're able to identify with someone and say yeah I've experienced

43:04
something similar to that and I live through it and this is the funny story that kind of comes out of that for me

43:11
you know because then at that moment there's a normalizing that goes along and it's like I'm not the only one

43:16
that's messed up and I can even look at myself and someday I may even be able to

43:22
laugh about this yeah it's good that reminds me of a good quote from Maya

43:28
Angelou right is that say that's close enough by me I completely understand I

43:34
gotta find it uh she basically said oh she was interview with Oprah Winfrey and she said that only equals laugh with

43:41
each other yeah so again when again if you're in that position of Authority or

43:48
again in therapy it's not really Authority but you know what I'm saying you're kind of on that side of the the desk so to speak when you are able to

43:56
laugh with them you you bring them up to your level and I think that's a really cool or can right yeah I think that's a

44:04
cool concept you bring them up or you're able to go down even would be a way I'd

44:09
look at that you know it's like I'm if I'm if I'm elevated if I may be elevated

44:16
in a circumstance I can also recognize that I'm very much the same I'm I'm only

44:23
elevated in this circumstance cuz I'm just as human I'm just as broken yep

44:33
outside of this circumstance as you are and I think that's the part from my

44:38
perspective that would make us equals yeah you know yeah because absolutely I'm able to recognize okay I've been I

44:45
may have because I you know think of the comedy you know com Comedians and they may be elevated but yet it's the fact

44:52
that we share this similar experience that makes us equals yeah the quote

44:58
there is that laughter is the great equalizer yes right that's essentially

45:04
what you're saying Upp or down is kind of irrelevant it's about coming to on to

45:09
the same plane ex and be able to connect together in that relatability and yeah

45:14
yeah it's good well thanks for sharing my pleasure we didn't even necessarily

45:20
get into all the uh the brain chemistry that goes along with it but maybe we can

45:25
do humor part two there could possibly be a part two you know stay tuned yeah exactly you there's

45:31
never too much humor so we could do humor part three four but five I would

45:37
dare say of the two of us you are the closest on that end of Comedy relief

45:46
comic relief that's very generous kind of you yeah I just i' I've never seen myself as much of a

45:53
comedian I might have the the ability to make people laugh by how I pronounce

45:58
words and other things that I do but uh yeah yeah levity lity that's what you're

46:03
talking about yeah laugh that's correct well good this is how we see it thanks

46:10
Mark thank [Music] you hey thank you for listening to our

46:18
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46:52
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