0:00
[Music] welcome to how I see it with me Mark

0:06
Pratt and Justin Sternberg this is a podcast that works to

0:11
countercultural polarization through thoughtful [Music]

0:23
conversations hey it's running that's right it's running the numbers are counting up it's a good sign

0:31
we're going to remember that for a while you know what you should say you should say I hear you I hear you I hear you I

0:38
hear you I hear you oh I hear

0:44
you we uh we just listened to just a little bit of the past episode and

0:50
uh yeah recognizing some uh Mark heard me a lot I did I was trying to think of

0:56
what that's called when you say something too much are you know that well we call them mar isms mar isms yes

1:03
cuz Mark has too many isms where he does have catchphrases on catch phrases

1:09
that's right that's right it's like it's like a yeah like one of those old timey detective shows you know you got

1:16
catchphrase or whatever yours is I hear you I am working on it

1:21
though and I think that's another part of this yeah I think it's like teaching

1:26
it's like anything like that you have to be able to do it you do it and then you

1:33
recognize what you can improve on yeah because we haven't arrived yet yeah and

1:39
I uh I as I think about it I hear you has meaning to me yeah but

1:49
when it's used too often it becomes redundant it loses meaning yes and I

1:56
think it it started even some ways from early on and maybe even counseling to a

2:03
degree of the ability to say I'm acknowledging what you

2:11
said but I may not necessarily agree with you I hear you yeah it's different

2:19
it's because when we say okay that can sound like

2:25
affirmation when and then someone might be saying I just beat my dog and we want

2:32
to hear them MH and recognize that that happened mhm and I think that was

2:40
my way of adjusting to not being able to

2:45
say Okay that was Mark's way of the typical like uh like psychologist like

2:54
nodding their head and go M and then writing in their notebook that's your version of that yes shoving their

3:00
glasses up on their nose and then writing on their that was your version I hear you yes yes I like it maybe not

3:08
quite that that affirmatively but yes yes no just you know the scribbling in

3:13
their notebook and you're like what are you saying about me that whole thing only you're just saying I hear you I

3:18
hear you yeah because I think there can be a certain empathy that's there yeah but I have to admit I can overuse

3:25
statements yeah and that's part of this what's the other one we like to pick on

3:31
uh for me like I say like I say that's honestly one of my favorite things to do

3:38
so I hope you don't give up on I I I it's not a matter of giving up it's an

3:44
ism that I enjoy but is how often you use it I think yeah I agree with that I

3:50
hear so yeah so this is how I see it there's a little bit of how I see it right there where that came from I like

3:56
it we also recognized the past episode there was a few awkward pauses there

4:02
little breaks at least for me but we yeah but we realized if you listen to it

4:08
in fast time yeah you we sound brilliant everyone should do that when you listen

4:13
to our podcast just go to 2X and we will sound much faster so smart our thoughts

4:19
just come out so and it'll fly by it will fly by yeah yeah this double benefit that's actually how I listen to

4:26
podcast is it yeah okay yeah and then when I listen at normal speed I'm like they don't sound as smart it's weird

4:33
yeah yeah W but I know they're smart cuz that's why I listen but it's that's

4:38
that's how you see it you've learned yeah yeah no at the at the beginning of the last episode I said this is Mark

4:46
Pratt and I got a little worried that everyone since they couldn't see me looking at you saying this is Mark Pratt

4:53
that they were thinking it was me saying I'm Mark pratton I could never carry the mark Pratt name so you don't want it no

5:01
I don't want it you you be Justin I'll be Justin that's right you be you're good Justin thank you I appreciate that

5:07
yes thank you you're also a good Mark well either way and if you weren't Mark we wouldn't have markm so that's true

5:15
yeah that's true but that brings us to our topic for today it does yeah yeah

5:20
it's not really a good segue but it's well it is is it let's talk in the sense of who we

5:27
are is is very much developed by our sense of or the our

5:34
ability to exhibit Integrity right so yeah today we're going to talk a little

5:40
bit about integrity and um we're going to just explore it a little bit um talk about

5:48
what it is um kind of some questions around integrity and um maybe maybe even

5:55
dispel some myths hopefully yeah uh about integrity yeah we'll see yeah no

6:03
doubt so as we uh as we think about integrity um what makes it important to

6:11
you Justin um so before we get to why it's

6:18
important do you mind if we talk about what it is a little bit no I I and I and I guess is that the same thing to you in

6:23
some ways yes but that's okay are you asking me what it is from my perspective uh yeah I would like to know what what

6:30
is you know in your Mark's dictionary sure what is

6:36
integrity and I think uh for me Integrity is what I'm

6:44
saying and what I'm doing most often tend to match that I'm

6:51
not necessarily saying um I'll be there MH I'll show

7:01
up and then I don't and I think for me um that can

7:07
even actually be a pet peeve of mine yeah is when someone says they're going

7:13
to do something and they don't yeah and I find

7:19
myself at times even I'll be honest you know if if a person does that routinely

7:25
I will tend to distance myself from them because you know it's it it's at that

7:32
point I realize how important Integrity is MH cuz if I'm depending on you I'm

7:38
asking you for help and you're either not showing up or

7:47
consistently late I'm not saying that you know but it's

7:52
like I don't want to make myself or put myself in a vulnerable situation yeah to

7:59
have needed help or asked for help and that person isn't there that that's

8:08
kind of what that's my perspective and and granted it's personal but I think

8:13
Integrity is a personal thing yeah and so there some some key um

8:21
topics that kind of tie into it would be um vulnerability and Trust I I think

8:27
those things kind of uh are the two outcomes of sure having

8:33
integrity versus not maybe consequences if you will yeah consequences yeah yeah

8:38
um what is it for you for me so this this topic is kind of a hobby horse of

8:45
mine right okay we've talked about this before and um uh uh Integrity the way I

8:51
kind of understood it um for you know most of my life was this idea of this

8:57
stuffy you know butt buttons buttoned all the way to top of your collar whatever it just kind of like you do

9:04
everything right you look down on people who don't you know it's just like goody goody kind of thing and um so I've kind

9:11
of morphed my understanding of it into more of what you know kind of the

9:17
structural Integrity so if you think about in terms of a foundation of a of a

9:22
building right and how if that Foundation isn't Built Well it doesn't have structural Integrity well

9:30
none of you know none of the structure built on top of it will have structural integrity and so you'll have issues

9:37
arise in different parts of your house because it's you know the foundation isn't structurally sound right sure um

9:44
you might have leaks you might have you know you know settling issues or whatever cracks cracks exactly um and so

9:54
Integrity To Me is the the

9:59
structural soundness uh between like what you were

10:04
saying what you say and what you do but I think more importantly what you think

10:11
is aligned with what you say and what you do oh sure so you know basically you

10:16
don't have this vision of who you think you should be and then this this other version of who you are and integrity to

10:24
me is aligning those two uh instead of it being a vend diagram right right like

10:30
y here's who I think I should be and here's who I am you have those two side those two ends of the VIN diagram

10:36
instead bringing that closer and closer together to where hopefully there's not a vent diagram they're the same thing to

10:42
me that's Integrity your your two circles if you will overlap yes as much

10:49
as possible yeah to where what I think is really kind of who I amh even

10:56
if people might disagree even if I'm wrong yes right um and yeah I'm still

11:04
open to the ability that I can be wrong and I'm not just holding to

11:10
something because it's it's a hobby horse of mine yeah yeah yeah and I and I

11:16
think it it's uh interesting what I I I'm GNA kind of

11:22
shift a little bit who are we talking to or what is our

11:28
desire from having this conversation over Integrity how do you see that or you

11:35
want I can I can go with that or you can go with that what's your thoughts there um so what I think of this particular

11:43
conversation some the people that I most would want to hear this and understand

11:48
this are is me when I was younger the 20 something year old me

11:54
who had these lofty visions of who I was and who I was was meant to be but my

12:01
practical output of who I was was not matching it and so um you know I was

12:07
very defensive and um I I thought it was

12:12
responsible but I actually wasn't and when I failed my responsibilities rather

12:18
than taking ownership which to me is integrity saying yes I messed up that is integrity again this goes back to my

12:24
original definition integrity was someone who didn't mess up that not what I believe anymore what I understand part

12:31
of the button up all together image if you will exactly but I've I've learned

12:37
to understand that Integrity is saying sometimes I mess up and when I do I will take ownership of that and I will deal

12:44
with the consequences I will take responsibility for those consequences and and deal with that and that's

12:51
something that I did not do well in my early 20s I I blamed others if something

12:58
came to me I'd be like well I wouldn't have done that if it wasn't for this thing or this situation or this person

13:04
um it just you know and and but at the same time I thought I had Integrity I thought I was honest and true and but

13:13
looking back I just see how the ver the vision of myself I had in my head was not aligning with the vision that

13:19
everyone else got the version that everyone else got and I think you bring up a good point the difference between

13:25
my image and my Integrity mhm I may desire to portray a certain image that I

13:34
have it together but yeah I think that becomes counter to our integrity to the

13:41
point of being able to say yeah I don't have it all together and that's part of

13:47
who I am and I think that I think that is a a strong Dynamic of of leadership

13:54
and integrity when I'm able to say I don't have it all figured out out and I

14:00
need your help versus maintaining an image that says or like you might have

14:07
desired to portray that I have it all together MH I mean you you mentioned

14:13
that being a strong trait of leadership then then that means we have to have a whole episode on leadership and what

14:20
true leadership is because you know there's a lot of leadership that's

14:25
exhibited most leadership I would say in the public eye that does not exhibit

14:31
they it's about being strong it's about looking strong it's about hiding all

14:36
flaws and that's not the kind of leadership that I embrace or I I believe

14:42
in I want to see a leader who can admit when they're wrong who can be vulnerable yes um so but that's a whole and I think

14:49
that's where that's where I draw the line between image and integrity because if I want to portray

14:56
that I'm powerful just for the sake of that I I

15:01
think that's empty like image can be but I think we C through Integrity we can

15:09
develop an image that matches yeah to where people say okay yeah oh Justin

15:17
Sternberg yeah he'll he'll do what he says he's gonna do yeah and and he'll have honest conversations with you

15:24
MH If he if he sees something or you inv him into your life you're going to hear

15:33
you know what he sees and likely you'll find out that okay that's helpful in

15:40
your gaining truth about who you are does that make sense and I think

15:48
that's part of it's bigger than image but yet it becomes who we

15:55
are when I think about um you know when you mention image versus Integrity or

16:03
whatever um I think I I think of the word duplicities right like sure uh we

16:11
have a tendency to be right it's it's that separation of who we are from who

16:16
we think we are and or who we're projecting to be and um you know it's it's biblical right the Bible says that

16:23
a double double-minded man is unstable in all his ways right sure I think it's

16:28
a paraph no that's yeah um and it's true because it's so difficult to maintain

16:34
both of those things yeah and so it's so much better if we can just say let's stop maintaining both and maintain one

16:42
let's make who I actually am improve yeah versus like projecting that I'm better than I am no let's work on the

16:49
core issues you know what I mean right like and I think what you you you were stating almost what I had in mind as far

16:56
as you know if if we View ourselves as Believers as being one thing on Sunday

17:04
and then another thing throughout the week MH that's that's duplicitous that's

17:10
religion if you will yeah versus the relationship that says no I I bring who

17:17
I am as a Believer to all aspects of my life and that's you know it is that

17:26
fundamental Dynamic of my car as a believer that that I personally hold to Integrity

17:34
being important as part of that so that I would not be

17:41
duplicitous in the way I live my life yeah yeah

17:47
and I would also say too like the more like the more that we are duplicitous

17:54
the easier it is to be duplicitous right so um if to your to your I guess the concept

18:02
about church right like if I'm one way on Sunday and another way on Friday night right yes um and I wouldn't want

18:08
my Sunday peeps to see me on Friday night and vice versa yeah um there's a good chance that's not the only way that

18:16
I'm lacking an Integrity does that make sense because the the more you're trying

18:22
to maintain two versions of yourself the easier it is to maintain those two ver you know like uh not easier wrong word I

18:29
don't think it's ever easy I think it's all we're not meant to do that so it's always difficult but there's something

18:35
natural to that right like uh well I've already got this Persona going over here

18:41
so I can do this in this Persona Y and I can also probably do this in this Persona and I can also probably do this

18:47
in this person you know yeah uh but this other persona I I can't and I have to be

18:52
this way and not do those things and yeah and I think part of what I

18:59
think exactly what you're saying there is what makes this topic for us

19:05
important to younger individuals because I think we are developing that lifestyle habit if you

19:13
will that basically says okay I can be this way here with these people or I can be this way here with these people and

19:22
it's it's about who it's it's more about who I surround myself with or who I am

19:27
currently around around versus who I am regardless of who's around me yeah

19:35
well we are talking about this a little bit before um before we we're recording

19:41
but as children like I was saying like a large part of what happens as children

19:46
is that we are programmed right like and that sounds so Sinister but but it's not

19:52
like we're teaching our children to live a certain way we expect them to abide by certain cultural norms or whatever and

20:00
like we program to be them to be a mini version of us as much as we can right I

20:06
which help me understand the difference when you say programmed be difference between

20:12
programmed and teaching or learning for you uh I'm using programming as a

20:20
hyperbolic term for teaching and learning like yeah I think no matter how

20:26
much you try and teach train your children uh correctly whatever that

20:33
looks like they will come out of being a child with certain beliefs held only

20:39
because it was given to them yeah that's what I mean by programming and I don't mean the adults are doing the bad things

20:46
I'm just saying like that's the nature of being a child is you adopt beliefs they are programmed into you would take

20:53
them in and there's no reason to to remove them or whatever or to question them you're a child you just take it as

21:00
true and you move on with your life right I hear I and I said just as I say I hear I

21:05
still heard that but I was I was thinking about it from the aspect

21:12
of what in other words as a parent what I'm teaching is what I'm

21:18
doing if I'm teaching with my words but my

21:24
actions aren't the same I'm I can see that as being a programming if you will

21:30
mhm because I'm actually conveying that my words and my actions

21:37
don't have to align which may actually be counter to what I may desire to

21:44
teach absolutely yeah and I so I I when I think about that

21:50
difference I think any area where I desire to teach something that's

21:55
different than my action I'm

22:01
actually offering confusion yeah instead

22:08
of programming and and or learning to kind of get back to what we're talking about

22:16
why this matters uh is again no no matter how good a job you do as a parent

22:22
your child will come to a place when they're no longer a child and they have to figure out what heck do I believe

22:29
yeah what the heck do I agree with you know and figure out what parts of the

22:35
programming they keep what parts they discard yeah you know how to reprogram

22:41
right in some cases I'm not who I thought I was I'm actually different or whatever um and so that that time that

22:48
you're referring to right the the young adult period is when all that crazy

22:54
stuff's happening that 20-year-old version of me that's when all that happening right yeah and it is a hard

23:00
time because you're figuring it all out and and figuring out what's true what's not and sometimes you're testing the

23:07
waters to see you know you know I think about uh like drugs and alcohol right

23:14
it's like I've been told my whole life these things are bad and dare to say no and all that well what's the harm some I

23:22
want to see you know and so it's so easy to try it and and and and go down that

23:28
road because it's like my parents were wrong about this thing why wouldn't they be wrong about this thing sure right

23:35
yeah um and and that's the whole thing uh coming back to

23:42
Integrity I would want them to understand me to understand

23:51
that the actions that you do aren't aren't what Define you right and so

23:59
what do you mean by that what I mean is if you if you drink alcohol or you you try drugs like I would encourage you not

24:06
to do that especially the illegal way or whatever uh but if you do

24:12
it it doesn't mean you now are that person okay

24:17
and it's such who we are is not defined by the

24:23
actions that we're doing or the people that we hang out with or all those things which is what you were kind of saying like we tend to become whoever it

24:31
is in whatever setting and what I would want to be understood is that that's not

24:37
required sure you can rethink you can go is this who I am no it's not I won't do

24:43
that again yeah you know and I can do that at 38 years old right I can lose my

24:49
temper at my kid which happens sometimes right and I can go that's not who I want

24:55
to be I don't want to do that again sure and that's the the same you know what I mean it's it's not that different um

25:01
than those situations hopefully that makes sense when it yeah that makes sense and that's

25:07
why I ask I guess I'm I'm just thinking about it from why this is important and how we

25:13
want to yeah because like you you were saying it's fundamental or foundational

25:20
yeah and I think you know being able to understand that our value is also

25:26
important there mhm MH and we can tend

25:32
to we we might sometimes lose sight of that in the midst of and and I guess

25:37
that's what makes it important and and and why it matters because we're thinking about it

25:43
from a developmental Foundation yeah yeah over time y yeah which we're kind

25:53
of jumping around a little bit that's okay yeah it gets me to the question about because you said over time one of

26:00
the questions we have here is how do you get in Integrity like you can't just you

26:06
know walk into the General Store and fill up a bottle of Integrity right the

26:11
five gallon bucket full of give me a five gallon bucket full of Integrity I need it today right right yeah and I and

26:18
I think it for me Integrity I think is

26:24
like well it's a learning but I think think in some ways it's it's like an

26:31
instrument because I think we learn how to do something by playing the wrong

26:38
note making mistakes and then being able to recognize oh wow that didn't sound quite

26:46
like I wanted it to sound and and being able to because I

26:51
don't think I think it can be a misconception to think that I can just

26:58
just choose to have integrity and I will instantly have it it's a like it's an

27:03
instantaneous process because I think Integrity is something that's like like

27:10
trust it's built over time through a process and I demonstrate

27:18
it even when or especially when the

27:24
stakes are high or the it may be very

27:29
uncomfortable yeah to demonstrate but that's how I know kind of to the degree

27:34
when I learned it how or to the degree that I've learned it is when I demonstrate it

27:41
regardless of what consequences I may face for having integrity that's good

27:48
you yeah it makes I mean your analogy about practicing music is so applicable

27:54
here because you don't just walk onto stage and play that hard piece right um and

28:02
same with Integrity like those difficult times are when you when the proof is comes out right like that you have

28:09
integrity or you don't but you don't you don't walk on to that stage and prove your integrity you practiced it in the

28:17
little things you know and so like with music you're sitting in your room no one's paying attention and you're just

28:23
going over that one part over and over over it doesn't sound pretty no one wants to hear that you you know practice

28:30
that one you know progression there 500 times no one wants to hear that exactly but it's that

28:37
500 times that says when you get up on that stage I can do this and do it well

28:43
right yeah and integrity is very much like that where how do you get it well

28:48
you start today and you don't stop you know like and you practice it in the little things um you yeah I don't I don't I

28:56
think it's inaccurate to think you can practice it in the hard things because

29:01
if you're if you don't have the the the strength from the

29:08
conditioning when those hard things come you'll Buckle I mean it's natural it's human it's it's the nature of things

29:15
right sure um and and I even think about it from that from you know the

29:21
definitions of Integrity you know integral one I think about the two circles coming together as close as they

29:28
can be to be one integrated yes to where I think about the 500 times that I've

29:34
played a segment of that song Or that music that piece to be able to play it

29:41
once in its fullness and I think you know that's a that's a definition of

29:47
integrity is that wholeness that I'm not divided but yet I've been divided or

29:54
I've played a divided section enough to say okay this this is what Integrity

29:59
looks like and I can I can tend to I'm not saying this in a judgmental fashion

30:06
but I can tend to see it at times in my own life and I can tend to see it in

30:12
others by the wholeness that I see that's a really good point because I

30:17
think if you're not practicing Integrity it's difficult to see a lack of it in

30:23
others which is can contribute to that this pain cycle of pain right like I'm

30:30
around people who don't have the best character which causes me not to have the best character which causes me to

30:35
make bad choices which puts me even more you know and like that kind of that

30:40
cycle yeah and it's what what comes first chicken or egg I don't know I think you do both right like you try and

30:47
separate from you know those that will bring you down that's a key important thing um but

30:53
also practicing being who you're meant to be around those people right and like

30:59
and even surrounding myself with people who I know are good point yeah have

31:05
integrity yeah yeah versus people that I might not be able to

31:10
trust and yeah there again it becomes almost I hang around people who model it

31:16
for me yeah that's another way that I learn it and and I would say if if if

31:22
you if you don't have a strong sense of Integrity you may not be be able to see

31:28
a lack of it very well but it's not that difficult to see it when it's done well

31:34
like even when if you don't have strong Integrity everyone knows who's trustworthy does that make sense yeah

31:40
like even if I'm not trustworthy and I'm Shifty and I don't show up when I say I should and I I cheat people out of their

31:46
money or whatever I know that guy has integrity and I know if I want something

31:53
and I want to trust somebody in a transaction I'll go to that guy that Mak sense yeah so even if you're struggling

32:00
with like I don't know if these people are good for me or what at least like you said you can surround yourself with

32:05
people that that are exhibiting that you can seek out those types of

32:11
relationships um the other thing I really like that you're were saying about playing the instrument and

32:16
practicing is sometimes you make you know you you play it wrong or you make mistakes or whatever and that that's

32:23
kind of what I was trying to say earlier uh is practicing involves some ugliness

32:30
involves some bad choices or whatever I don't know if choices is the right term in uh thing in terms of practicing but

32:38
um I guess that's kind of what I saying it's like if you go to the bar this weekend with your friends from college

32:45
and you realize this doesn't really align with who I want to be again that's

32:52
practicing that's that's that's going oops wrong note let me try again yeah right or maybe you're able to exhibit

33:00
your integrity in that setting I don't know I can't speak for that but I I I can say like you said surrounding

33:09
yourself with people who have integrity versus not is is going to produce that

33:14
Integrity more reliably um and I think what in hearing what you're saying I

33:21
also want to add that I don't sit here myself recognizing that I haven't messed

33:27
up MH at times in integrity and and in some

33:33
ways I have probably learned more from when my Integrity has been

33:43
lacking than or how important Integrity is by doing it

33:50
wron and experiencing that disappointment in other

33:55
people you know when it's like oh you can't trust Mark for

34:01
that you know or oh Mark said this and I and I and I think about it even you know

34:09
especially where my kids are concerned you know how important that is

34:14
and and for you can you can you think of a moment in your time where it's like in

34:21
that moment Integrity became something you desired to acquire regardless of

34:28
what it cost yeah so um this gets very personal for me but um you know as a teenage boy

34:38
or whatever I looked at pornography pretty regularly and I would say I was

34:43
addicted to it and it got to a point where I mean this is why this is such a

34:48
passionate topic for me I there was two versions of me there was the version who I knew I was the person who couldn't say

34:55
no and then there was a version projected right yeah and I didn't know

35:02
how to align those things I had no I didn't have the tools or understanding or training or what what have you to

35:08
figure out how do I make these things become one you know and it wasn't until

35:14
just before we got married and my wife basically challenged me to say hey do

35:19
you struggle with porn pornography was essentially the question and in that

35:24
moment I had a choice of whether to cover it up or whatever you just do just do what most guys do and I'd

35:33
like to say I I was too smart for that I'm I I'm not taking that credit I think it was God's grace in my life but I was

35:40
honest with her and I I confessed my struggles to her knowing that if I

35:45
didn't our future marriage could be jeopardized by my addiction my habit um

35:52
also knowing that if I was honest with her that could also jeopardize our relationship like she might not not want

35:57
to be with someone who's like that and at that moment that was the first time

36:03
I'd ever shared the truth of who I really was completely with another

36:09
person and the freedom that that brought well first I'll say she was very

36:15
gracious she forgave me she she vowed to help me in our marriage and to be a

36:20
partner in that and that's a huge part of this equation of course God's grace

36:25
in my life through that situation but through that I understood the value

36:32
and the freedom that comes from smashing those two versions of myself into one

36:37
and the value of confession the value of accountability and so a big part of

36:44
Integrity for meh that helps me to maintain integrity and practice

36:49
integrity and grow in Integrity is accountability on you know a regular basis where I meet with people and I

36:56
confess where I'm being wrong you know and saying this these are things I want

37:01
to work on um if it wasn't for that then I would start to split again I'm fairly

37:08
certain right because I'm always wanting to be this this better version of myself that's not

37:14
going to change that's an important part of growth I think or is just Desiring to

37:19
be a little bit better than you are you know but I'm never going to be able to achieve that if I'm not measuring how I

37:25
am and that's a big part of what accountability is but anyway that moment in time was where you know the

37:32
difference between having two versions of myself and then one understood by someone else

37:39
completely integrated the value of that was fully understood U now obviously I

37:45
was still had many years to come of being a young 20-some and and not not

37:51
exhibiting Integrity in many other ways and learning that that same

37:58
benefit of Integrity in the area of sexual Integrity could also bring

38:03
freedom in all these other areas of my life you know whether it's comparing to others or um you know just approval

38:12
addiction you know all those things so on that along that line

38:19
um I'm recognizing that in your experience when you demonstrated

38:24
Integrity in that moment and me demonstrated acceptance um that trajectory if you

38:33
will went well yeah what what would you say we're fine what would you say would

38:40
what would you say to someone who desires to demonstrate Integrity but

38:48
when they tried it it didn't work well they experienced they they lost an

38:56
opportunity you follow me they I do yeah they were honest on a resume and they

39:02
didn't get the job they were honest in an interview and what would you say to

39:09
someone a young adult yeah I mean that's hard that's that's a hard thing to say

39:17
well just do it anyway and have integrity and um I think to walk over to

39:25
that their side and step into their SHO I would think I mean that's what you're

39:31
getting at like how is this possibly worth it

39:36
and at that point you kind of just have to trust those who have come before

39:42
right like who have said I've done it both ways and having Integrity is so

39:47
much better and here's why and that's where those relationships come back into play and so that would be my

39:54
encouragement is if you're in that situation is to seek out a mark Pratt you know or someone in your life who is

40:02
further along the journey than you are and they can say here's why what you did matters here's why what you did is

40:10
important and here's why if you would make a different choice or change uh to

40:16
to not have integrity in that area here's what likely will occur in your life you know um I think that's I think

40:25
it's a very difficult situation but I do you think having those relationships in your life are so important for that it's

40:31
again comes back to accountability someone to say here's an objective perspective on what you're going through

40:38
and uh yeah what would you say to that or what what are your thoughts on that

40:44
well that's and I and I think that's what kind of brings it to mind

40:50
is the fact that we will not Integrity is learned over time

40:57
because we will not it's not an instantaneous process just because I'm

41:03
demonstrating Integrity In This Moment doesn't mean that I'll suddenly find

41:09
find the the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow instantaneously that's good

41:15
and I think and I think being able to recognize there is a benefit a long-term

41:22
benefit to demonstrating short-term Integrity yeah on a daily basis and I

41:28
don't think and I you know I think it's it's kind of similar to planting anything yeah we don't we don't we plant

41:37
an apple seed but we don't get a an Apple at the end of the day MH and I

41:43
think we can as we continue to plant the apple seeds of Integrity in

41:53
consciously making the small integrous choice we plant an orchard over time but we're

42:02
not going to reap the benefits of that fruit instantaneously yeah it's the reaping

42:08
and sewing principle yes precisely and I think that's that's and I think that's

42:13
what makes the difference in my desire to demonstrate Integrity even if it

42:20
doesn't instantaneously pay off that I recognize yeah there's going to be some

42:27
some some difficulty I'm going to lose some

42:32
friendships you know yeah in that Journey towards Integrity

42:38
M but yet there is a looking back you know it's it's the times when I

42:46
demonstrated Integrity that are

42:52
more more beneficial even even though the short term didn't

43:00
make it seem so yeah and when you ask the question it just makes me think of

43:06
like my own daughter she's 14 years old almost 15 and like there are some things

43:12
like in terms of Integrity or whatever where it's like I know I'm asking her some her to do something or to believe

43:19
something that she doesn't yet have proof of in her life right so like when

43:24
I think of that person who's just entering the the workforce and the resume thing whatever that situation

43:31
it's like it's I can understand the difficulty because they don't have the

43:37
the past to look back on and say this works and so that's to me that's where

43:42
it becomes difficult it becomes much easier as you start reaping what you

43:48
sewed right either direction really I mean if you if if if you uh seow the

43:54
lack of integrity and you reap the consequences it's easier to go maybe I should do this right next time although

44:00
that doesn't always happen either but uh and vice versa like if you SE Integrity in this situation and

44:09
you continue to do it you will see the benefits there's not a doubt in anybody's mind right

44:16
um and I can certainly say from my own life just

44:22
seeing just the benefits of having integ of

44:28
living out Integrity now again I don't want to be I don't want this to be heard as someone who's like stuffy shirt that

44:35
whole thing but as someone who consistently tries to be real and so even in my own career to be able to say

44:42
I can't do that thing you asked me to do I don't know how to do it but I'd like to learn right MH that's real like I

44:49
don't know how to do this thing I'd love to be like oh yeah I got this or whatever but I don't I don't know how to

44:54
do it but at the same time you're my boss you want me to do it so so how can I it's the little things like that you

45:00
know and I see that so often in some of the younger guys in my career where I work and stuff where it's like they

45:07
project that they can do more than they can thinking that somehow that buys them some credibility when really you borrow

45:16
from future uh credibility you know and you don't have it yet and then when it

45:22
turns out you can't do the thing well now it's all gone like your credibility is below whatever could have yeah you're

45:29
in debt exactly and uh and I've I've lived through my period of that for sure

45:35
but kind of turning the corner to saying you know what it's okay I'm not perfect at everything and when I'm I'm going to

45:40
just be real I've seen the benefits of that in my career from from then till now you know and uh yeah cuz number one

45:50
you seek out uh opportunities where you your integrity is appreciated you know

45:57
it's it's usually a good uh guide it's it's it helps guide you in away from Bad

46:05
opportunities and towards good opportunities because you're not going to look for uh you know like an Enron type of I

46:14
hear yeah I mean I made that one up I'm sure most people there didn't have a clue that that was a thing but I'm just

46:20
saying like um your integrity will guide you towards good opportunities because your integrity will be rewarded so

46:27
what's the difference between integrity and wisdom as far as you're concerned yeah so I feel like Integrity

46:36
is kind of the Practical outworking of

46:42
having wisdom right I feel like it's very difficult to have integrity if you

46:49
aren't attaining wisdom or if you don't have wisdom

46:54
um I'm not sure they're wisdom May tend to allow you to see the benefits of

47:02
Integrity yeah over time that's very true yeah

47:07
yeah well thanks for sharing all those uh insights on Integrity I mean really

47:14
pleasure yeah like I said it's my hobby horse yeah I was just I was thinking of

47:19
that same phrase and then uh so as we wrap up what would you like what's what's

47:26
your final thought on uh the importance of your hobby

47:32
horse uh I

47:39
mean I guess my thought would be that if you are struggling in this area of

47:46
integrity and it can be any any any any end of the spectrum right it can be like

47:53
I I talked about I struggle with pornography you know that could be that's likely a large portion of our

48:00
audience all two of them you know uh I mean that's a very common issue or it

48:06
could be just at work like you tend to fudge the numbers once in a while or taxes right it's like the government

48:13
doesn't deserve my money so I'm going to hide whatever like it can be any number of things what I would encourage you to

48:19
do is just start trying Integrity just just just try it yeah and

48:27
keep I mean you can't just try it and then the ne like you said the next day look in in the pot and say oh there's no

48:32
plant you know you you got to let it grow but start planting integrity and

48:37
just see what happens because I guarantee you you will reap benefits

48:43
from it mhm it's a guarantee that's fair enough you're

48:49
reaping and sewing you don't have to get a guarantee on this

48:55
podcast yes indeed so that's how we see it I love it good

49:02
[Music] job hey thank you for listening to our

49:09
podcast if you like how I see it please do all the things that podcasts tell you

49:15
to do subscribe rate review follow us uh

49:20
and or talk nicely about us on social media if you want to reach out the email

49:26
is is us at how I see it doclick yep I said dot click as int c l i c k

49:37
please tell your friends about this show and we'll see you on the next one

49:43
[Music]