0:01
foreign thing was I I mean my faith obviously

0:10
plays a huge role here because um even going off the medication was was

0:15
something that was would have been greatly frowned upon one of the the characteristics of both

0:23
Lyme disease and Bartonella is that if you have not completed the cycle of

0:29
treatment the diseases will come back stronger foreign

0:35
[Music] welcome to how I see it with me Mark

0:42
Pratt and Justin Sternberg this is a podcast that works to counter cultural

0:48
polarization through thoughtful conversations [Music]

0:55
good morning Justin good morning Mark how are you sir I'm doing pretty well yeah pretty well yeah most likely these

1:02
cool almost fall mornings yes but not so cool that it's cold exactly yeah yes

1:10
well I just uh morning Mary Ellen as well good morning yes it's good to have

1:15
you with us welcome so this is how we see it so in the in a

1:22
how we see it moment we routinely talk about continuums and the process of uh

1:28
just I think Continuum is our favorite word yeah and so when we can't say continue them we say Spectrum so you

1:35
know it is we try and mix it up but we recognize that in that if you will bell

1:41
curve not everybody's experience is Right smack dab in the middle right and

1:46
if anything there are people who are different than us who might be on an end

1:52
or we might find ourselves on one end of that spectrum and it and recognize that

1:57
okay somebody else's experience is different that's our hope yeah is to be able to understand that someone else's

2:04
experience is different and so that being said um I want to introduce Mary Beth to you

2:10
um

2:17
and then I can edit it out go okay beautiful now you gotta

2:23
reintroduce it so Mary Ellen um friend of my wife's someone who I

2:30
have known for years um a strong individual

2:36
um someone who I respect who has been on a journey I'll call it at this point and

2:43
someone who has sought her own healing through

2:51
a diet I'm good I'm gonna say a lifestyle change because I recognize diet has implications to it correct yeah

3:00
I would agree yeah it's a polarized word it is because we can tend to think it's

3:05
just weight loss weight loss yes that I'm doing this for a momentary benefit

3:12
or it might even be something that fluctuates and in who you are and valuing your

3:19
intelligence I recognize you have been on a journey and that's where that's

3:25
where we're at I'd I'd like you to be able to kind of describe what that

3:30
journey is and what brings you to the lifestyle choice you are choosing

3:38
I think I'll start with um some background yes

3:43
um probably 13 14 years ago I was strong and healthy very athletic and started

3:51
becoming very ill quickly um and it took about two years to figure

3:57
out what was going on and I was diagnosed with Lyme disease and later on a few years later three

4:06
other tick-borne illnesses as well wow yeah um

4:11
so the journey do you live because New York state I'm gonna avoid that state yes

4:20
um and at the time it's very difficult to get treatment for Lyme disease unless

4:26
you've caught it early on sure and it requires Specialists that you have to

4:31
pay for out of pakka and for fortunately insurance doesn't cover it so I saw treatment in the sense of just

4:40
lifestyle and things that I could do on my own and and did a lot of exploring

4:46
and reading and and also talking to people in the

4:52
wine Community as well for ideas and so over the years I've tried a lot of different things including diet

5:00
changes and um at the point where I was where we made

5:07
the big change and the way we are eating and living Our Lives I was completely I

5:14
had no gluten in my diet I also had no Dairy I had eliminated both of those because they were causing a lot of

5:21
inflammation in my body um but at the start of the pandemic

5:27
um so this was February of 2020.

5:32
I had was at the end of about two years of very

5:38
deep treatment for Lyme disease I had been working with a specialist for about

5:44
two years and I went that direction because

5:49
prior to that I had taken a turn and I was very sick using a wheelchair

5:57
sleeping half the day I was in debilitating pain and I also had a lot

6:03
of psychological symptoms which are very common with Bartonella which is one of the tick-borne diseases that I had

6:11
so in order to save my life we saw a

6:16
professional tick-borne disease specialist and there are a lot of different treatment methods which I'm

6:22
not even going to begin to get into but in that particular situation I tried a lot of natural things so we went down

6:29
the pharmaceutical route which is a cocktail of different Pharmaceuticals

6:35
that you're taking at the same time and after two years of that I had made a lot of progress neurologically and

6:43
physically I had made a lot of progress I was nowhere near 100 I was still

6:49
needing a two to three hour nap every afternoon I was still dealing with a lot of symptoms but I had made a lot of

6:54
progress unfortunately I taken a tremendous toll on my body so I had

7:00
was struggling with my organs near failure especially my liver and my

7:07
kidney function as well as I one of the drugs that suppresses your bone marrow

7:12
Productions so I had very low white and red blood cell counts so as the pandemic

7:18
started there was a huge concern for me ending up in the hospital and the fact

7:23
that I also had no ability to um fight off the illness so um at the

7:30
advice of my doctor we paused treatment and I moved to like an herbal protocol

7:35
and at the time um of course we were praying through the

7:40
next steps to take and I really felt that God was leading me away from this form of treatment that I was he had

7:47
something different and so I felt very comfortable with that pause

7:53
and I also really my body was so depleted so I was just focusing at that

7:58
point on praying what the next step was and also how do I restore the Damage

8:04
Done both by the Lyme disease and all

8:10
the Pharmaceuticals I had been on so that was our prayer and that was the

8:15
focus I started with working with a doctor a functional medical doctor and taking a lot of supplements and kind of

8:22
going that route which I think is what a lot of people do because that's kind of how we we roll with things and

8:29
then about May June time frame a friend of mine sent me a of course you know

8:37
everyone was working from home and a lot of things that were people go to in person were now being

8:43
offered online in a lot of places organizations and non-profits and things were offering things for free just to

8:48
educate people while they were at home and keep them busy and a friend sent me a link to a summit that was being offered online

8:58
and there was someone different or a couple doctors speaking every day about different things and she said oh they're

9:04
going to be talking about autoimmune disease tomorrow maybe you would be interested so I was like sure why not so I listened

9:13
and there was two different doctors on there one with lupus and the other one that had Ms and

9:21
they both had completely reversed their late stage diseases using lifestyle

9:28
primarily a whole food plant-based diet and I was like

9:34
wow I've never really I I never really heard of it to be honest with you

9:39
um I was familiar with veganism my daughter was a vegan um

9:45
and honestly I hadn't even considered removing meat from my diet at that point because

9:52
um one of the things in the Lyme Community is this fear of carbohydrates because

9:58
there's a concern that they feed Lyme disease sugars definitely do simple

10:06
sugars there's no doubt that um table sugar and simple sugars are not

10:11
healthy for um well for anyone but for a sick individual in particular

10:18
so that would have been the end of me yeah yeah so

10:26
um long story short it basically opened up a rabbit hole of sorts for me and

10:32
I've always been one to do a lot of research so I just really really started researching and

10:39
um I made a decision actually I I talked to my husband at the time and I said would you be willing to do this for six

10:45
weeks with me because I really felt strongly that it would be much easier for a household wasn't divided

10:50
sure um my children were grown um and the youngest that was in college

10:56
was staying in college and not coming home people were afraid I literally did not

11:01
leave the house other than to get fresh air for months um and I will tell you even after taking

11:07
a pause from all the medication they were taking my blood work every two weeks and I even had to make

11:12
arrangements for the lab so there wasn't other people there um I mean just take like the level of

11:18
anxiety and kind of fear that was happening at that time just to be a normal person right and you didn't know

11:25
how it was spread or whatever and you'd look at something like I said are you a covid yeah I mean it's like didn't apply

11:31
your situation right I can't even imagine that would be yeah so the interesting thing was I I mean my faith

11:39
obviously plays a huge role here because um even going off the medication was was

11:45
something that was would have been greatly frowned upon um one of the the characteristics of

11:53
both Lyme disease and Bartonella is that if you have not completed the cycle of

11:59
treatment the diseases will come back stronger they hide all through your

12:04
tissues and cells and become very difficult so the more times you kind of

12:11
go at them and then don't finish what you're doing and come back it's they're just get stronger and stronger and more

12:16
difficult to treat which is partly why I was in the position I was in the first place because I didn't ever completely

12:23
get healed or the Lyme disease World uses the world word remission

12:30
um for me now I I consider myself

12:35
healed my body is still healing but for

12:40
me personally that's part of my journey is not identifying with that illness

12:46
anymore as well so yes um definitely so at the time it was just

12:52
my husband and I and he said of course he was willing to

12:58
support anything and I was limited all the cooking so he was like sure let's give this a try and I also had him

13:05
listen to a couple podcasts and watch a couple documentaries that um

13:11
I had watched and he's like I'm sure you'll make everything taste good let's do this

13:17
and so we jumped all in to a whole food plant-based diet

13:22
which is uh basically no animal products at all no fish no Dairy

13:32
um no eggs and in addition to that it's focused on Whole Foods so it is a vegan diet taken

13:41
to another level um and the focus being on a variety of

13:47
whole plant foods you can eat grains and lots of potatoes and you know vegetables

13:54
for me I took a little bit different one step further just to be clear because

14:00
for some people a whole food plant-based diet and that transition is all they need to heal their health but for me I

14:06
was very sick and I also had depleted a lot of the

14:13
um my immune system was just and my microbiome from all the medications I

14:19
had been on my intestinal tract and everything was just a wreck from all those medications so I did what was

14:25
called a hyper nourishment protocol which is a lot a dark leafy greens and

14:31
um that's just one more step in that I had a little bit more of a strict Focus than

14:38
my husband did um but we jumped all in and I was having blood work done every two weeks so it

14:45
was very easy to track and so we stepped in in faith that this could

14:52
not hurt and it could only help and it did so what did you notice from your

14:57
blood tests and that in that realm as you right so when I say blood work the

15:03
blood work was basically measuring my organ Health as well as my red and white

15:09
blood cell count sure and in six weeks it was back in the normal range oh this

15:14
is normal completely normal healthy healthy range it could function as well wow all of it was back in the normal

15:21
range in six weeks so and at that point I felt I mean obviously we were thrilled

15:30
but I also had such confidence in that season that God had led us there

15:36
and years ago actually my lyme disease doctor he was a Christian man and very it was an

15:43
old guy and when we I first started treatment he was he said to me whatever you do do it in faith like believe in

15:48
what you're doing and I understand the wisdom of that now and so I think it's important that you know when we we we're

15:56
not in conflict with what we're doing either so kind of that double-minded man is

16:02
unstable and all he does type perspective yeah so yeah and in this

16:07
time I continued to educate myself um one about the benefits of a

16:12
plant-based diet also um on how to cook a plant-based diet and

16:18
how to um with that that it is it is a lifestyle

16:23
because it affects all areas of your life um because our culture is just not

16:28
supportive of it in general and so that

16:34
um that fall I enrolled in e Cornell has a course through Cornell University

16:40
called um the plant-based certificate and it's a educational course teaching you

16:46
all about the nutrition aspects of a plant-based diet and I enrolled in that and that was just the icing on the cake

16:54
for me of really understanding the benefits not just for myself but for

17:00
those around me um to a plant-based diet and we've never looked back it's been over two years and

17:07
the best decision I ever made and so I'm continuing to heal I am a year from that date I hiked the

17:15
mountains of Virginia day after day and continue to do so today I am living a

17:22
full vibrant life I am not 100 yet my body is still healing

17:28
but I feel like it's healing cell by cell as I give it what it needs in what ways are you still healing

17:35
how does it impact you still so there was a lot of damage from the Pharmaceuticals so um I'm still I still

17:42
feel like I'm working on um my microbiome and dealing with that I

17:49
still have some pain issues that come and go and a lot of that has to do with just

17:56
the breakdown of my muscle tissue and just I did I've done six years of

18:01
physical therapy so prior to that I had done four and I've done some since then I had a left side partial paralysis and

18:10
neuropathy so I mean I literally went from using a wheelchair like I could

18:17
stay on I didn't have to have it to walk but I could not stand for long so if we went like to Lowe's or you know anywhere

18:24
where we I needed to walk around a lot we were using a wheelchair to hiking in a year it was amazing yeah what was that

18:30
like for you to experience that I think you just have a better appreciation for everything in life when

18:36
you haven't had it you know when you haven't had the ability to do things um

18:42
and and honestly for me just like even being able to once again for me give

18:48
back to others um in the sense of encouragement and saying like There's Hope

18:53
there's a lot of hopelessness in the Lyme Community there is hundreds of thousands of people who are so sick and

19:01
they just see no way out of it um and it's a very it's a very depressing

19:07
can be a very depressing Community um just because people are really struggling to

19:13
maintain hope when they've tried so many things and they're not getting well so

19:18
for me that was being able to say I there is hope

19:25
you know and so that was felt good to me for myself and also I was able to

19:31
finally be the wife and mom that my heart longed to be and start to give back

19:39
because for for a while I was only able to take care of myself really and that's

19:46
hard yeah and even even in that Journey for you personally to go from someone

19:52
who would consider themselves very independent athletic strong that was

19:59
that was a difficult process for you just to experience that yes and that it

20:04
was I mean I learned a lot in that season um about how

20:10
it's easy to give and hard to receive for a lot of us and so I had to learn that I also had to learn to slow down

20:17
and um for me really I think that season

20:22
when I look back was a deep interdependence on God for the strength and energy for the day and also my

20:29
mental health just not losing hope and just finding something in each day that was

20:37
still good even though I didn't feel well and but then in the turnaround is

20:43
the remembering like for me it's like I have not forgotten and I am I am

20:49
thankful so when I do have some harder days which sometimes I do

20:55
um because I've you know I'm still healing it takes your body a long time to

21:01
restore all that's been depleted when you've been ill for a long time so I

21:07
have to remember how far I've come yeah her shirt says grateful which I

21:13
think is appropriate I agree I agree I was thinking about that in that aspect of finding the daily things that we can

21:20
be thankful for did you know Mary Ellen when she was going through that process well I don't know what you how not not

21:26
to that extent I knew in other words um Mary Ellen and Chris became friends

21:31
when our children were young when we lived in New York state okay we moved out of New York state in 2002. you know

21:39
her when she was pre yes yes pre-line's disease basically so the the healthy

21:45
version right and we knew we would visit I mean Chris and who she is of course she would make

21:53
time typically as we would go to New York state for family visits at Christmas you know her and Mary Ellen

22:00
would kind of get together as they could type thing if it worked out you know that kind of thing so we were aware you

22:07
know of what was going on but I don't believe we were you know aware to the full extent I I think obviously your

22:14
story is pretty impactful and amazing what you got it'd be interesting to hear those

22:19
around you kind of what their perspective is too and because I'm imagine

22:25
yeah it would just be like it's so much better you know what I mean yeah yeah I think you know what's

22:31
interesting is um Lyme disease is from a lot of people

22:36
it's kind of an invisible illness so even when I would see crust she would have had no idea how sick I was most of

22:43
the time um you know I would run into somebody in a grocery store that had knew me well

22:49
from church or somewhere but didn't know the deep intimate details of what I was dealing with and I would be using one of

22:55
those scooter chairs or whatever and they would just be like what happened and I you know they just had no idea so

23:01
you know you can um give all your energy to the two hours of that day that you need to and I mean

23:09
I was for a long time I was still serving and and functioning what what

23:14
most people would have thought a normal life um they wouldn't have known the tremendous suffering that was going on

23:20
and that's true in general in the wine Community it's it is known as an invisible illness

23:27
um so you know it's interesting because I feel like would make it harder absolutely yeah it does make it harder

23:34
dependent on others when it's like right you don't have the visible it's

23:47
interesting the things that you don't think about until you have to be there like for me like the first before I used

23:55
a scooter at the grocery store you know one of those ones you just borrow from them I went through a lot of like

24:00
internal battle it's like when I got my handicap parking permit like

24:06
a lot of lessons for me and humility and also in what what is a value you know

24:13
and what where do I place my significance yeah and my own self-worth

24:19
in that and so you know looking back there was a lot of

24:24
a lot of lessons in that but even my husband we've been married for almost five years we've been doing a lot of

24:29
talking and reflecting this week and and I asked him

24:34
could you have known the impact this would have in our lives like he did like I knew you were sick

24:40
but I didn't he didn't even doing life with me before we got married he had no

24:45
idea how impactful it was yeah I try to talk him out of it yeah I did I

24:53
was like you don't want to marry me yeah it's not fun being married to someone sick so

25:00
you know now I feel like I'm trying to I don't want to say makeup for lost time but just live every day until its

25:07
fullest and I think we all should but yeah it's definitely one of great

25:12
intention for me in talking about like the scooter and even Wheelchairs and

25:19
stuff I know like my daughter she has some issues with their bones and stuff and so when we went to Disney World and

25:26
she can't walk for hours at a time so we got a wheelchair it was kind of that same I mean

25:31
I guess I guess I can somewhat uh connect with what you're saying because it's like we would wheel around and we'd

25:38
go through the lines fast that was cool but then she would get up and get in the ride and I'm like I wonder what people think you know what

25:45
I mean absolutely like people don't understand so I got a lot of mean looks

25:50
for the handicap parking spot I mean so having to like process that

25:56
that look doesn't matter I guess it kind of to what you were saying about what matters

26:02
um it's unfortunate that that that's the experience that you have to go through but yet what matters is being able to

26:09
shop being able you know whatever right kind of I don't know that's it's just yeah it's it's that whole we don't we

26:16
want to say that we don't care what other people think yeah but at the end of the day most of us do yeah yeah

26:23
so in your process and I I think you know there's there's definitely two different aspects of you know it's it's

26:30
the lifestyle change you've made and yet there's still the Lyme's disease experience that you've had and I'm and

26:36
I'm just curious in that process um it's a on would you say a hidden hidden

26:44
disease invisible invisible yeah and uh I've seen what would you say to someone

26:50
and it's funny you it's like I have learned a little bit since the property

26:55
you know it's like I got bit by a tick a couple weeks ago you know and oh no but

27:01
we think about it they like vegetables so in that process we think about it you

27:09
know and sure enough you know it was you know you gently pull it off that kind of thing whatever you know not whatever I

27:16
shouldn't say it like that but you know there's this thing that were invincible

27:21
to a certain degree and I think that kind of plays in it's like this won't happen to me well you also don't get it

27:28
till you get it right and that's what that's what that's what I'm saying in that process you know what would you say

27:34
and you know it's like I even just talking with other people I learned well the best thing to do and what I should

27:40
have done in that moment knowing that I had been bitten was send a tick off for

27:45
25 and it can be inspected or you know lab tested and you can know it's like we

27:52
took a picture of it and then threw it in the trash type stuff because I didn't know that at the time

27:58
can't be responsible for what we know I see the look in her eyes it's like you you fool you no but it is it is

28:09
well a lot of people don't even know that they've been yeah sure yeah and

28:16
that so speak to that deer takes her right the the ridiculous the first

28:21
hatching of the T the the deer Tech when they do their um feeding word after

28:27
they've hatched out they're tiny they they're the size of a poppy seed and so they estimate 90 some percent of Lyme

28:36
disease comes from those ticks and you're not likely to convince they're called nymphs yeah

28:44
because they're so tiny I mean they they you know they'll do things where they put one on one of those poppy seed

28:50
bagels and you literally can't see it oh wow that makes you yeah it really kind

28:56
of crazy yeah give me one of those everything Bagels yes

29:03
and the bagel think about that yeah so what is your question no and that's what what would

29:10
you say to someone who is in that possible beginning stages they're not

29:17
sure they're just they're just recognizing they're tired you know because because even what you're sharing

29:24
can sound so much even like cancer right so you know so many other things absolutely

29:31
um so there's two scenarios here there's one your scenario you found this tick

29:37
right I get those phone calls all the time I bet you do for text messages or

29:42
and you should properly remove the tick and

29:48
it's definitely worth sending an offer testing especially if you live in an endemic area sure um which about 80 of

29:57
the country is at this point it is the largest vector-borne Z disease in the

30:03
U.S um

30:10
so they estimate at least 500 000 people a year are Contracting Lyme disease at

30:17
least wow um so if you find the tick it is great to send it off for testing

30:25
um there are Labs that charge and the Russell are some that do it for free Okay um and you can find that by looking

30:33
it up online and uh just you just save the tick in a slightly damp little paper

30:40
towel or something and put in the baggie and you can send it off it's worth it because if the tick has no diseases you

30:47
can just know that and if it does then you know okay maybe I need to think about this

30:54
and definitely watch for symptoms um some people get the classic symptoms and I think this is the misunderstanding

31:00
that there's a way that Lyme disease progresses and it does for some people but that is a small portion

31:07
what's really interesting is the this is a slight diversion but the long-haul

31:13
covid epidemic that's going on is similar to

31:18
chronic lyme disease in the sense that that they don't know what to do and

31:25
everyone presents a little differently um and so that has brought a lot of

31:30
awareness um to the fact that there can be kind of these lingering things that go on and

31:37
now with Lyme disease they they can find with certain tests the existing disease

31:45
still in your body so that's so anyhow um the testing for Lyme disease is awful so I'm just going to

31:51
say that right out front it misses at least 50 percent of and it's just the nature of it they there is research

31:57
they're trying to develop a better test um yeah that's crazy have you heard of the

32:05
I guess there's a vaccine or something coming out have you heard about that yeah I'm curious what your thoughts are on that

32:11
yeah so the the original wine vaccine that they created years ago

32:16
um gave people limes so that didn't work um or it made them very sick with a similar lime type symptoms

32:24
um but it worked for animals so the the vaccine that our animals get that they give to dogs was originally a human

32:30
developed vaccine so my concern I'll be honest with you I mean I I've been a

32:35
part of a lot of clinical studies because I do test positive for Lyme as well as um I've had or I did so as

32:44
they're trying to develop things they try to find people that they have a clinical diagnosis as well as a lab diagnosis so I've been a guinea pig for

32:52
the sake of progress um so I've I followed this quite closely and

32:58
I have mixed feelings about a vaccine um because there's more than Lyme

33:04
disease so you rarely get just slime so you

33:09
rarely get just slime ticks carry all sorts of different diseases and

33:14
Bartonella which is one of them is very debilitating in fact all there's a lot

33:20
of children that have like autism or different mood disorders and different

33:28
things that turn out to have Bartonella and and so that also rolls into that

33:35
question you gave me what would you tell somebody and so um

33:42
even if they had a vaccine they're going to miss the mark on one there's a lot of

33:49
different strains of lime okay and there's all these other co-infections so

33:55
I just I think it's a move in the right direction um but personally I think they should

34:01
move spend the money and resources trying to find a good diagnostic system for it and

34:08
treatment because if Lyme disease is caught early and treated appropriately

34:13
about 85 to 90 percent of people get well okay Define treat it appropriately

34:19
so and found early like what so if if

34:25
let's just say you had started coming down with symptoms or

34:31
um so you could have gotten the bullseye rash so the bullseye they call it the

34:36
bullseye oh my gosh because it's like a rash in circles well it's not always sure just anything actually it can be

34:42
anywhere so I did not get that the first time I've actually got in line twice so you really don't want to come to New

34:48
York state right in our area over 50 of the ticks carry

34:54
lime okay and I'm an outdoors person so the second time I got it I knew I got it because I

35:00
got the rash but it I still didn't find the tech but I got these bowls they look

35:07
like circular rashes similar to a bullseye I had like six or seven of them on my body so it's not like

35:14
a rash that comes right where it can be right where the bite is sometimes people get this perfect rash right there and

35:21
I've seen it and then other people get almost like an eczema rash type thing or

35:26
with me I had like five or six different bullseyes they were just like all over my torso I was going to the gym for um

35:34
Aqua physical therapy and I put my suit on I'm like oh my goodness

35:39
and so that's probably you know part of why I got so sick the second time around

35:44
because I got more of it in my body and who knows what I picked up that time too so there are a lot of symptoms but in the

35:51
beginning when I say um you the the life cycle of the spirochet which is the actual it is an

35:58
actual you're not just your body you're getting something inside your body so it's being

36:04
transmitted through the tech into your body starts to replicate and grow and

36:09
multiply inside your system it's in the syphilis family so it's a very can be a

36:15
very difficult thing to catch in the beginning so because it grows very slowly in your body

36:22
so if you were to have the classic symptoms and get on it would be antibiotics

36:28
um that's the the typical way of treatment um and it's four to six weeks

36:35
but for some people that's not enough so it's until symptoms resolve and I will

36:41
tell you that's not how it's treated right now a lot of times it's two weeks and you're not going to kill all of it

36:47
because the life cycle is 28 days so you have to at least be on medication for 28

36:52
days there are great herbs for Lyme disease and there are some people that

36:58
go that direction and have great success with that as well is that something you could name no

37:06
there's a whole combination of them but there's a research you can find out yeah it's an herbal cocktail really

37:12
um but they are they can be very effective the thing with herbs is that you have to

37:17
be very intentional and very like taking them every three to four hours and disciplined with them

37:24
um and it's not covered by insurance so a lot of people you know that route can be more expensive but it's also not

37:31
destroy damaging to your body in the meantime it's just helpful some people get very stuck in the beginning with

37:36
Lyme disease they just get it and they get really really sick for me it started with joint pain and fatigue

37:44
and that direction which is I would say is true for a lot of people that have

37:49
chronic lyme it's a slow slow downhill

37:54
adding up of symptoms and you can also be treated and not get well

38:01
so if when I said 80 they say 85 to 90 percent of people if they went the right

38:07
direction and they go on the antibiotics for four weeks or six weeks whatever but they'll get better

38:13
but then there's those that don't and they have lingering symptoms and for some people it feels like it's just some

38:21
extra fatigue or arthritis and for some people it's extremely debilitating

38:27
and it and like a lot of things in life certain other things can contribute to

38:32
it so if you have you know a lot of people have issues with mold or you know there's other contributing factors that

38:39
make them more sick have you heard of Rocky Mountain spotted humor is that yeah is that it's another tick-borne

38:46
disease yeah absolutely a good friend of ours um that that at some point and it made it

38:53
very sick yeah dealt with them for a while and see like it pretty much resolved except every once in a while I

39:00
think he'll still feel the same symptoms of fatigue and stuff like that and then he got coveted and he of all the people

39:07
I know who got it had it the worst and he was knocked down he was out and I mean they

39:15
were very worried about him you know and I almost wonder if that has something to do you know if that can if they can the

39:21
two together can be problematic or um because of what the tick-borne disease does it it creates this you know

39:29
stronger sensation if you get coveted I don't know I'm curious if you if you've heard anything like that

39:36
puns on what else is going on you know I think that's true of all things in our

39:41
bodies that's why um certain people all of a sudden become really sick with

39:48
you know like a mold sensitivity you hear about people like all of a sudden and other people they're not bothered by

39:53
it I think it's a great visual it's like we have this cup and at some point it

39:58
overflows like it just can't handle any more of the toxins in our body or

40:04
um whatever's going on and so some people have had Mono as a child and it's

40:09
just Laden it's it's like when someone gets shingles because they had check you know the chickenpox virus is still

40:15
laying in their system um so with Lyme disease some people if they have had Mono it can come back and

40:21
come back out and contribute as well so it's like you're just treating um all of these things all at once and

40:27
environment is huge as far as and lifestyle is huge and we have a very

40:33
stressful uh lifestyle in our in our country for most people and stress is terrible for

40:40
our immune systems and our health so as you mentioned lifestyle what about

40:46
your specific Whole Food plant-based lifestyle

40:51
created this opportunity for healing as you've learned and as you see it what

40:56
what made that so different than say the person that just has a regular regular

41:03
diet right even even someone who might be somewhat healthy right you follow me

41:10
right so I'll be honest with you this is what surprised me I was I was pleasantly surprised that it worked as well as it

41:16
did sure and I think part of that was um a lot of our information comes from

41:22
media and you know even when we look and research

41:28
it who's paid for that research whatever right so finding

41:33
truth truth it can be difficult we talk about

41:38
that a lot so it's like the obvious hidden hidden somewhere right and that's what I actually you know that has been

41:44
my experience with plant-based nutrition like once I kind of knew the rabbit hole to go down or whatever the title look

41:51
for it I was able to find the information and they're it's out there um so to answer that specific question

41:58
it has to do with your immune Health okay so I think I know that we are nutritionally starved

42:06
in America absolutely like we are overweight and and under fed of

42:12
nutrition by far and so that that plays a huge role um but but at the end of the day with

42:18
Lyme disease you need your immune system to be able to fight it's it's fighting

42:23
in the beginning that's why some people get bit by a tick and they may fight the lime off and not even know like you

42:29
could have it in your body and just not get it impacted by it as much um but if your immune system is weakened

42:36
and and honestly it's some of it is is food and it's also lifestyle like if

42:41
we're under a lot of stress like our immune system just is not working well um and that's probably the case in my

42:47
situation I was in a very stressful season in my life and I think that played a role I was very worn down I

42:52
wasn't getting enough sleep and all of these things I have learned so the plant-based diet is optimal for Health

43:00
it provides all the new trans that we need and also is very good at for our

43:07
immune system because of all the antioxidants and everything that you're getting from the plants sure and in my

43:13
situation because I was focusing so much on the

43:18
um like over nourishing my body you know it was lots of dark leafy greens and

43:24
Omega-3s through flax and chia seeds I just flooded my body with nutrition and

43:31
gave it the ability to heal so you know my biggest takeaway from this

43:37
this whole thing was just that God has created our bodies to want to heal we just need to give it the right

43:44
tools to work with we just need to give it the material the Sleep the fresh air

43:52
you know all of these components play a role and just giving our bodies what they need to heal so for me that that

43:59
was the turnaround so you know I didn't that I don't believe the plant-based

44:05
diet was working like the antibiotics were as far as like attacking and killing this fire key in my body and

44:11
killing the Lyme disease off and the disease is off it strengthened my immune system to do that itself and gave my

44:18
body the ability to heal itself and continues to do so so speak to that from

44:23
in the process of your journey I mean As Americans I'll say you know we're we

44:30
have this pharmaceutical ability right you know and I think in some ways it can

44:36
be something it can it can be something we put our faith in strongly right you know when you take

44:44
you know you have this you take this right speed

44:50
is your journey for everyone to think about yeah speak around you is it

44:55
working okay I hear you so we are very second America and if we

45:03
didn't already know that kovitz showed us that we had the highest death rate of any country in the world for covid there

45:09
was third world countries that did better than we did sure and it's because we live extremely unhealthy Lifestyles

45:16
and I think that the reason I was so surprised the plant-based diet worked

45:21
for me is because I was um the uh the hot the spectrum of very healthy as far as Americans go in how we

45:29
ate um I did not eat any processed food really at that point

45:35
um when I say processed food I don't mean like opening a can of vegetables I mean

45:41
processed food you know chips and you know take out and all that kind of

45:46
stuff food that can last for five years right um I also um you know we were buying free-range

45:54
organic meat from local places um I was trying to buy all organic vegetables we ate a you know we ate

46:02
healthy very healthy compared to what most people do so it was amazing the

46:08
turnaround in my health from it's not so much just what you're not doing it's what you are doing with a

46:15
plant-based diet so you're you're not just removing things which I think is what everybody focuses on you're adding

46:21
in all these other things that are full of nutrition and some of the other things

46:26
are void of nutrition so or have very little because if you're full on

46:31
something that is nutrient film then there's no room left for uh meat or

46:37
whatever whatever the thing is you're replacing that's an interesting perspective that I can't

46:43
say I've ever really heard which is it's a it's not this idea of taking away as much as it's giving right I don't know

46:49
your body and honestly you know I now I'm in the position where I'm helping others

46:55
um with their plant-based journey and transforming their health and that's one of the first things I say to them this

47:00
is true of all areas of life we have to focus on what we can do instead of what we can't do and you know for me I just

47:09
jumped All In to the plant-based diet and I I truly feel that's the it doesn't sound like it

47:14
but it's the easiest way to do it because we have food addictions there is absolutely no doubt we do in this country our food is designed to be

47:22
addictive we also have just taste preferences and it's just like ripping off that Band-Aid if you keep both feet

47:28
you know foot in each Camp it's really you're just you're always going to want to go back to that thing that was

47:33
comfortable um but a lot of people slowly transition and so one of the advice advice is we

47:41
give is I mean it can be eliminating certain things but it's a crowd out your plate that's why I tell people like if

47:47
you not everyone has to go all plant-based but we do need to eat more fruits and vegetables there is no I

47:54
don't think anybody can argue with that um but the biggest question that we get

47:59
in the plant-based Community is I bet you can guess you don't eat bacon where do you get

48:05
your protein everybody including you know when my husband first went to this Factor he's

48:11
like wow you've lost weight and wow you're you know your cholesterol is all better and you know you're he was just

48:17
like where do you know my husband's like we're eating a plant-based diet where do you get your protein you know

48:22
um 97 of Americans eat too much protein and 97 of Americans do not eat enough

48:30
fiber we are fiber deficient in our diet I mean there's people that don't eat a

48:35
single vegetable all day long let alone fruit and so we are not protein

48:41
deficient we are nutrient deficient and

48:46
um we need fiber and you can only get fiber from Plants I'm not sure

48:52
so back to that that Dynamic of the pharmaceutical what was that like for

48:58
you in that transition no there's nothing to be sorry about I appreciate what you shared especially in that in

49:03
that protein you know because I think you know even I'll hear it so much even in my F3 world you know eat what is it

49:10
half your weight in in grams of protein type thing you should roll their eyes on that one just so but you know yes we we

49:16
do have this protein fixation if I may say so you know versus a nutrient right

49:23
filling but what was that Journey like for you and you you mentioned it a little bit because it took a certain

49:29
Faith step right so let me go back to the pharmaceutical question um

49:34
so this is the scary things there's there's been a lot of lessons in all of this for me and a lot of lessons and why

49:41
do we do things the way we do in medicine because one of the things I learned so when we

49:47
when I took the plant-based certificate courses at Cornell um and the reason they teach them there

49:54
by the way is because T Colin can't Bell who is one of the Pioneers in the plant-based movement

50:00
did he taught there and did his research there he wrote a book called The China Study which

50:07
um and he came from a dairy farm his whole life he grew up on a dairy

50:12
farm and in his quest to discover a way to provide nutrition to third world

50:19
countries and starving people he was trying to find the perfect protein and discovered that that was not the answer

50:26
so he wrote a book called The China Study based on this the biggest study

50:32
ever done on nutrition in the world and it's it's really incredible so anyhow they in that they debunk a lot of things

50:39
and they also help us to understand why we know what we know so why do we think protein's so important why do we why do

50:44
we go to the pill you know a pharmaceutical route why do we do these things why do we not stop and you know

50:50
even the simplest of things we have a headache and we go you know do we stop and say maybe I need some

50:55
fresh air or I need a glass of water we just take an Advil or

51:01
whatever your choice of simple thing I mean they're very inexpensive and

51:06
so our doctors have also been taught that way um the average

51:12
physician gets two hours of nutrition training in all of their years so they

51:17
do not they're not equipped to give nutrition information nor are they paid to do that so they're paid to write

51:24
prescriptions yeah you're the second person to speak of this

51:29
on our podcast and the cool thing is the first person was and uh what positions

51:35
assistant so kind of from the inside and you're kind of coming from the outside doing a ton of steady ending right

51:41
um and I would definitely say for anyone listening to this listen to the other Mary as well because it definitely I

51:48
mean they coincide very well with what you're saying one one of the things I really love

51:54
about this this is an aside I just don't want to get in the to the pharmacist pharmaceutical pharmaceutical

52:00
stuff thing that you're talking about I love how this kind of idea of filling our bodies with nutrition and Mary Beth

52:07
spoke of this as well is that it doesn't just you know a deal

52:12
it's this is not just for people with lines for everyone right so if you're struggling with depression

52:19
you know this is one thing that you know a lot of things I've uh heard about that it's like one thing that helps us to go

52:24
outside in the morning and look at the sun you're like what that doesn't make sense but it's you know simple things

52:29
like that that are um part of like how we're created to be if that makes sense that if you can partner

52:36
with the way your body is meant to work things start to work right yeah I heard

52:43
the statement the other day um in a conference call I was in and the

52:48
man said if you want to live like modern day people you are going to die like them you're going to

52:55
die of modern day diseases because a lot of the lifestyle medicine is that it's

53:02
it's breathing techniques it's getting out in nature I mean all of these things that people did

53:08
for all of creation until recently I mean it's only very recently that we've

53:13
been in front of screens and using artificial lighting and honestly processed food I mean there is a direct

53:20
correlation between processed food and People's Health Decline and

53:26
you know I think we are um comfortably unaware it's that ignorance is bliss

53:32
kind of thing and also we just we don't have time or energy to like research every little thing um and even

53:38
when you do a lot of times you're getting misinformation so that's part of go back to the pharmaceutical thing I

53:44
don't think that doctors are trying to give us misinformation it is

53:50
all they know and they have a tremendous amount of education and we put a lot of faith in them so when we go and we

53:58
have something wrong with us and they give us a prescription we just the majority of

54:06
people do not look at the side of they don't look at the consequences of that and there are I mean so much of the

54:14
health related problems in our country right now are related to the way that we're treating our bodies with what we

54:19
put in it the lack thereof and the medications um you know I think Mary Beth used the

54:26
term offensive is that correct yeah well if you think about most people don't even understand what their microbiome

54:31
does I mean there's all this talk about probiotics and things now so a lot of people have heard that word but you know

54:38
there are some antibiotics where and there is a place for pharmaceuticals there absolutely is but we just

54:44
understand that there is a cost for them right a Trader there is and it's not just what we're putting I mean even the

54:50
pandemic some of the roots of some of these things that are going on are related to how we are treating

54:57
the environment and all the Medica the Pharmaceuticals and things that all the antibiotics and things that we're giving

55:03
to animals livestock and stuff and how it's being raised so all all of these

55:09
things come come around but as far as Pharmaceuticals go there is a place for them

55:14
you know and there's a place for an antibiotic there's a place for some of these things but a lot of them

55:21
um a lot of the the Pharmaceuticals that people are on are for lifestyle things are for diabetes or for heart disease

55:27
they're for you know cholesterol all of these things can be completely managed

55:34
reversed avoided with lifestyle yeah and again I'm just happy to have you kind of

55:42
add to these previous conversations because I think it's easy to write it

55:48
off one time I just I love the perspective that is coming from this uh physician's assistant who kind of come

55:55
came up in that and then someone who's very sick and you know it's just two different perspective

56:02
confirmations polarizing perspective you might say no I'm just kidding um but it's kind of corroborating the

56:08
same thing I mean a great example of that um is that my husband you know he just

56:14
jumped in for me but we not always saved his life as well because he had just

56:19
months before been diagnosed with high cholesterol and high blood pressure and

56:25
he did not go on medication I was like we're gonna figure this out um little did I know the answer to it

56:30
but you know a year later he goes back to his doctor he'd only been on a plant-based diet for six months and he

56:37
had it completely back not just in a healthy range but in

56:42
a low healthy range in six months so cool and his whole family has high

56:48
cholesterol his mother told him go on the medication you will not get this done with Aya

56:55
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