0:00
[Music] well if I may say I realize it's a late

0:07
but uh Happy Valentine's Day to you Justin and you as well thank you yeah

0:12
and to you listener happy belated Valentine's Day sure yep yeah but

0:18
speaking of uh the 14th of February what comes two weeks later oh

0:25
boy oh boy we're doing this again well I'm just saying what comes to weeks

0:30
after the 14th yes I think that math checks out the 28th at 700

0:37
p.m. yes indeed when we're going to hang out with you folks that's our hope that

0:43
you that we're going to be here so we're we're hoping you come hang out with us grant us this belated Valentine's gift

0:50
oh there you go your presence there you go no but that's that's coming right up

0:55
it is yeah I'm going to say this okay it should be a week from the time you're

1:01
listening to this yes if you listen next

1:06
Wednesday anyway 28 that that's that's from the voice of our director editor

1:12
you know designer yeah speaking directly to you so yeah I don't know yeah all

1:18
those things yeah so yeah so the one we released yesterday you know obviously we

1:24
talked about this too we tried yeah it was so bad and the thing is I cut out

1:30
probably 2/3 of it really and it was still it was still as muddy as it was pretty hilariously stumbled but I got

1:36
you I cut out oh man two third of it so we did pretty good this time okay yeah

1:42
the math isn't important the 28th that's what matter the 28th that'sa 700 p.m.

1:48
yes indeed thank you for reminding oh them and us and me I'll be there yes

1:54
indeed it's part of uh my job I figure you have many hats at least I can do is

2:00
be mindful of the things that are coming up you're doing great w we'll do what we can thank

2:06
[Music]

2:11
you welcome to how I see it with me Mark Pratt and Justin Sternberg this is a

2:18
podcast that works to counter cultural polarization through thoughtful

2:25
[Music] conversations so yeah you got topic for

2:30
things coming up yeah what's our topic what's our topic I got I got a topic for

2:36
us this day yeah yeah yeah I was thinking about it have

2:41
you ever [Music] had a muscle that was

2:50
problematic oh yeah yeah yeah like how like a back a leg most recently my

2:58
shoulder uh well when it was really bad sure and what

3:04
happened I think it was muscle yeah could the tendon or

3:10
the tendon right probably maybe I don't know does that did the details matter

3:16
whether it was a tend or muscle no but I well I mean realistically it didn't it's

3:21
the same thing the muscle is the group and the tendon is what connects it to the Bone if you will okay so in that

3:27
process there's a tearing of that muscle system mhm and it hurts yeah and quite

3:35
often in order to repair that muscle you just have to kind of give it some

3:42
special attention maybe lighten up on it a little bit maybe even stretch it more

3:49
you follow me in that process yeah and although I would I recognize there's a

3:56
difference between our muscular system system and our nervous system there's a

4:03
part of me and like I say I'm uh I'm I get passionate about the way we're

4:10
designed by God from my perspective but I believe our brain falls into that

4:17
category it's not necessarily muscular but I think it it's like a muscle so how we

4:24
exercise it what we think about how we stretch it how we use it makes a

4:31
difference does that make sense yeah I thought it was a muscle uh I don't see it as a muscle as

4:39
far as movement goes it Con it controls our movement maybe it's not a muscle I

4:46
and that's what I I believe it's part of our nervous system yeah you know where our nerves are connected so of course

4:51
our brain connects the muscles but I think about it in a similar fashion as I

4:57
think about muscles cuz I think we can deliberately strengthen our brain

5:03
and we can by default allow our brain

5:09
to atrophy MH you f does that make sense yeah definitely and I was as we as I was

5:15
thinking about or you know kind of thinking about meditation I think that's what if I were

5:22
to kind of simplify the whole meditation thing it

5:27
is a process of managing what my brain does or how I use

5:33
my brain what I think about and it and it kind of brings back you know as I'm

5:38
thinking about meditation and and granted I'm I'm going to recognize that

5:44
much of what we know about you know meditation in general I put my little

5:50
bunny ear caps quotation marks out there in general you know is going to come from the Tibetan mon monks and that kind

5:57
of stuff and you know the research that they've done done you know on the brain and that kind of thing um and I and I

6:06
respect that because I'm willing to recognize those individuals have taken

6:13
meditation to another level you know what I mean they're like the Olympic the

6:18
marathon I was just going to say yeah they're the Olympic athletes the marathon runners you know the ultra

6:25
distance Runners of the meditation thing you follow me and yet that's not to say

6:33
that the average individual can't exercise

6:39
meditation and I'm even going to bring I'm going to kind of even even probably use the words a little more

6:45
interchangeably between meditation and mindfulness MH you know because I we've

6:50
done mindfulness yeah but both from my perspective are kind of a controlled

6:58
Focus MH so that right off the bat though uh we should make the distinction between the

7:04
kind of meditation you're referring to versus um I think Eastern meditation

7:10
right is the idea of emptying the mind right yep and what I'm going to I mean

7:16
like you say I'm going to look at it from a a Biblical standpoint from my perspective more like the Proverbs as a

7:22
man thinks so he becomes and it's not so much that I'm emptying this myself my

7:30
brain to just allow and and and granted I don't think I mean granted some of

7:37
that may be a hijacked Western culture view you know what I'm saying I I'm not

7:45
opening I'm not emptying just to allow anything to

7:51
come in I think we can be a little bit judgmental in that if I'm emptying I want to recognize though my desire is to

7:58
focus on what Christ has to wants to fill me with yeah you know versus just

8:05
emptying to have nothing or you know but I'm still going to recognize that that

8:11
takes a tremendous amount of energy to be able to stay in that singular Focus

8:19
mind does that make sense Y and yes I am recognizing from a biblical sense the

8:25
way we think matters so much and it's interesting CU as we there the

8:34
the funny part of it is from my perspective mindfulness you know

8:39
meditation isn't just a um mental health issue anymore because

8:48
there's been a lot of research that has basically connected it to our body our

8:54
physical condition it's been you know connected with you know um anxiety

9:00
reduction you know blood pressure reduction you know a lot of these things we're we're able to recognize how

9:09
connected our body is our brain and our body and therefore when we kind of it's

9:15
it's a it's we're just designed that way from my perspective so what we think

9:21
about things matters if I start you know just kind of throwing

9:27
some I I could probably throw some cultural you know Nega war and you know

9:34
economy Travis Kelce and Taylor Swift yeah I can start throwing these things

9:39
out here Chiefs won the Super Bowl yeah and as we and and this that's a great

9:46
example of what our brain does is like gist yes each and

9:53
every moment is we can have these rabbit Trails if you will that end up taking me

10:01
these other places and I lose focus of where I'm to

10:08
be that's how I'm seeing this the the meditation process and um I think even

10:14
in um mindfulness and I I'll I'll come back to it we talked about the two

10:20
circles we talked about the aspect of the O we talked about where I have this

10:26
cognitive mind and I have this emotion mind has two circles yeah and where they

10:31
overlap like a ven diagram that's the wise mind where I'm able to think and

10:37
feel in that process right because I think so often our tendency is to be

10:43
comfortable in one or the other we're either comfortable in our emotion and we

10:49
just like to go there and we're very feeling oriented or we tend to cut that

10:54
part off and we're more cognitive oriented analytical itical and emotions

11:00
don't matter MH well and I and I think in the wise mind it does matter I think that's where Jesus lived his life

11:08
knowing full well what he was to do despite how he might have felt at

11:14
certain times not that he minimized those emotions he didn't push them away

11:20
that's what made him empathetic in my perspective but as I think about the the

11:25
whole meditation process it's interesting that research is telling us you know how when a person is able to

11:33
engage in that process it keeps the brain and this this is this is where it

11:40
kind of gets exciting for me it keeps the brain from going into a default

11:46
mechanism okay well our brains and and this is kind of neat for me because I

11:51
see I I help people process this default mechanism all the time yeah is is that

12:00
kind of like the Primal stuff that we talking about the Primal question it's a combination of the I would give it the

12:06
Primal but it's the Primal question because well when our brain

12:13
and I I I'm not big I don't want to necessarily use a lot of terminology you

12:20
know brain terminology I'm not I'm not I'm not a geeked out person I want to sound like a geek when I tell people

12:26
these words so give them to me well that was the case no and this isn't don't take offense to this B but if if we

12:33
wanted the real terminology I should have invited Lizzy cuz she she's got all the neural Pathways and what controls

12:39
that but I basically it's it's the singlet cortex yes it's part of the

12:47
Olympic syst singet cortex yes which is part of the O Olympic system limic Li

12:55
where emotions where emotions are processed okay that's where our brain will tend to go

13:03
in its default State okay and that part of that system is where we also process

13:11
pain now and I and I when I say pain I'm going to link it more to emotional pain

13:18
okay than I am physical pain I have to delineate the two because I can't guarantee that the physical pain is

13:24
definitely there but definitely it's connected with emotional pain so so for

13:30
me in that process when we're going when that becomes my default mechanism that I

13:37
start heading towards my emotion where where emotions are

13:42
processed it makes sense that I kind of go down this Rabbit Hole or I can go

13:49
down this rabbit hole into the things that have hurt me what may happen you

13:55
know that em when when we're thinking about this from anxiety when we're thinking about this from you

14:02
know Hurts Habits and Hang-Ups okay we're going to be able to recognize

14:08
that's where our brain goes by default yeah so from my perspective it makes

14:15
perfect sense that that's not necessarily a healthy place for us to

14:21
spend time so meditation is that ability and here here

14:27
again I want to avoid any aspect of judgment okay because so often that's

14:36
part of the problem is I'm judging myself based on what others have said about me or

14:42
judging myself so I try to do meditation okay and

14:48
granted there's the the research is there that says hey you don't even have

14:54
to do this more than five to 10 days two weeks and you will start noticing

15:01
differences in how your body performs much like we talk about the muscles you

15:07
know if I start exercising if I start choosing to meditate on what God says

15:13
not what somebody said about me in the past it's going to make a tremendous difference kind of like the songs we

15:19
sing when we do worship it's like it's not who I they say I am but it's who God

15:25
says I am and if I choose to focus if I choose to meditate on who God says I am

15:33
and what God says he'll do it's going to make a tremendous difference you follow me all the all the Hocus Pocus of you

15:41
know Eastern versus Western meditation aside what I think about matters and how

15:48
I choose to focus is probably the most important

15:54
part of directing my thoughts does that make sense mhm because and and this is

16:01
where I tend to see it and you and you can see this with people okay it's not

16:07
just me but you can kind of tell like especially when we're in here you know

16:13
we're pretty much eye to eye talking back and forth and I know when you're tired you know when I'm tired you can

16:19
tell when we're engaged you can tell when we're not based on that that Focus

16:25
mhm and you can see it outside of this room of course with other people you can tell you know when you're talking with

16:32
them and their eyes are shifting to other places seeing who's walking by seeing who else they want to greet oh I

16:37
may want to catch that person da da da da da versus being able to stay focus on

16:42
the individual in front of them in the conversation for me that's another example of what meditation looks like

16:49
it's that ability to maintain a focus and in that process okay I want to

16:54
recognize now if I lose that Focus for a moment I'm not going to get all

17:00
frustrated at myself and say oh I'm not good at this I can't do this there's no use you follow me I'm going to recognize

17:08
oh I slipped I let it go for a moment but yet

17:13
I can go right back to the thought that I had and that's that's what the

17:19
practice is about from my perspective it's not that anybody can anybody can learn to meditate it's the process of a

17:28
CH Ching to do so and then being able to recognize that it's beneficial yeah and

17:35
not getting frustrated in the process does that make sense it does question I'm sorry I didn't want to

17:43
I'll like to uh share your thoughts for a moment you're good uh no yeah just a

17:48
lot of this makes me think about the TR transformation that can occur when someone gets really involved for

17:54
instance that Celebrate Recovery sure and the reason is you know they're involved in Friday nights they're

17:59
involved in worship they're involved in the teaching or the testimony and they're they're involved in a step study

18:06
and potentially involved in some accountability groups or with a or a sponsor relationship and um then the uh

18:14
you know ideally involved in a weekly church service and that in is basically intensive uh

18:22
Focus right on working past some Hurts Habits and Hang-Ups and moving forward into a healthy version of yourself sure

18:30
and um that's not like traditional meditation by any means you know but I

18:36
think what's so cool about that is it's kind of what you're saying is it's learning how to focus on the right things and shift to the to what's right

18:45
and keep your mind on those things and what's cool about that kind of intensive situation is it's it's kind of

18:51
built in you don't have to work as hard it's kind of just you show up and it it's working and it becomes part of the

18:58
step process yeah I think the struggle can be you finish a step group you know

19:04
Friday nights aren't convenient anymore whatever and you know that's when people

19:10
will tend to relapse it's not because Celebrate Recovery some sort of Miracle place or whatever it's because you're no

19:16
longer that focused right and so you it's easier and easier and easier as

19:21
time passes to slip into sure the

19:26
lumata system liic singulate cortex the default yes

19:32
the default yeah and I think uh so what's crucial about this conversation

19:38
is to say this practice of meditation is crucial to everyone you know e even if

19:47
you're in a good place because you need to learn those tools to be able to use when when you don't have the perfect

19:53
sure you know uh guard rails all around you y right and to be able to kind of go

19:59
okay I see him slipping into the default how can I yeah is that fair that's very fair and I and I think what I and then

20:06
of course we're going to have to you know we won't we don't have time to

20:12
necessarily um unpack all of the other part but I want to recognize when we go

20:19
back when we when we go to that default mechanism okay there is that part of us

20:25
when we've experienced a certain level of pain okay and meditation is also helpful in

20:33
maintaining Focus because we can recognize that there is a purpose in pain but I believe from a cultural

20:40
standpoint we've gotten to the point where pain is to be minimized at all

20:45
cost emotional or physical you follow me are we don't necessarily see a purpose

20:52
in it value it we don't value it it's something to be dealt with to be

20:57
minimized and I think unfortunately when we think about you know and we'll talk about probably

21:04
marijuana at another time or but you know alcohol is the same thing when I'm

21:09
tending to medicate you know that pain with these

21:14
you know substances if I may you know as we're thinking about CR but really thinking about you know how our culture

21:22
has shifted more and more to legalizing marijuana you know and granted we can

21:27
talk the the how I see it of that another time but I also recognize how

21:34
that is counter to my meditative process because I believe there is something I

21:40
mean it's uh it's interesting granted scripture tells us not to be

21:47
intoxicated okay it doesn't necessarily tell us not to drink you follow me

21:52
there's a there's a there's a there's a line there and I think part of that is

21:58
it's like when I'm intoxicated I've just completely lost my ability to meditate

22:04
to focus to you know to exercise my brain in any way at all MH and I think

22:11
that's the part that God basically is saying hey you know don't go there there's no benefit to it bring your pain

22:18
to me bring you know recognize there is a pain recognize it has purpose and then

22:24
we can deal with it and it and I I kind of get a chuckle you know it's a I I

22:29
think it's towards the end of Proverbs maybe around 30 it's not the it might be around 31 prior to you know the the um

22:36
Proverbs 31 Woman but it's like the mother is talking to her son the king

22:41
and basically saying hey you know you're you're a king don't don't drink don't

22:47
get drunk you know but you know if there's a guy that's having an issue you know go ahead and give him something to

22:54
minimize his pain but as a king you stay focused don't don't let alcohol

22:59
be that thing that trips you up you know do you does that sound you know it's

23:04
like this is a mother's advice you know it's like you know stay away from alcohol it doesn't do you any good but

23:10
you know if you want to give a guy a little bit of pity you know you can give him a drink if he's in a tough time well

23:17
you know I can understand that as a mother's wisdom my perspective is it's like H let's be mindful of that habit we

23:23
create for that other person as well but you know being able to say okay okay

23:28
yeah there is something about that alcohol that I can tend to learn yeah to

23:35
be dependent upon to avoid the pain of the emotion and that's what that's what

23:41
connects the meditation process for me so well or you know any other substance

23:49
that I am medicating pain with you know that's that and yeah it

23:57
becomes you want to go no you're fine remember what you're going to say yeah um it becomes like a pavo's bell you

24:05
familiar with that it becomes habitual yeah you're like the Pavlov whenever um he would ring a bell he would feed the

24:11
dogs or whatever he would give them a treat and eventually you know he stopped giving him a treat and the bell always

24:17
signaled come to me right right or whatever that was um and I think that's what happens when you start treating

24:24
your symptoms with a substance or a bad habit sure right of any kind it can be a

24:31
substance it can you know the the substance is a combo thing it's a bad habit and it actually

24:37
is solving the problem for you right like it's dulling your senses it's giving you the ability to stop thinking

24:43
about the problem in a lot of cases although it has diminishing returns yada y it's not necessarily solving it but

24:50
I'm saying from your immediate yes Pavlov's response like ding okay I'm

24:55
better you know and so the next time pain comes now the bell ring and you know exactly what to do sure right is go

25:02
back to that thing that substance that habit or whatever um and obviously

25:07
that's hugely problematic and that's that's you know obviously we're talking about addiction at this point that's

25:13
what addiction looks like is um uh uh the the circumstances triggering that

25:20
habit you know that it's that same pbls kind of situation happening in your brain um and you know meditation

25:28
obviously it's the attempt at the opposite I think which is taking control of your brain or taking control of the

25:35
focus to say sure um but yeah mind yeah I'm with you in the sense that obviously

25:42
there's a balance there's some amount of pain that our body can't process and therefore it goes into shock right sure

25:48
and therefore there is levels of pain everyone has different levels right where once it's beyond that threshold

25:55
you can't process it it's it's beyond your normal ability to process it now

26:02
I'm not ruling out you know god-given Supernatural Holy Spirit type stuff

26:07
but um your body would go into shock when it experiences physical pain I believe it's part of

26:14
dissociation when we go into the mental pain the the emotional anguish of you

26:20
know being raped or you know those kind of things I'm going to you know that's like the emotional shock basically

26:27
that that turns your brain off a little bit to say you can't experience this in

26:32
its fullest exactly in in a safety mechanism yeah sure and yet I would also

26:37
recognize that that's primarily in that moment and I would say over time God has

26:45
the ability as even if you as you think about it through you know CR and a step

26:51
program that I'm able to kind of unpack that you know trauma if you will you

26:58
know know Peace by piece in such a way that God's able to heal that you know as

27:03
I'm able to recognize I am better able to feel that now incrementally according

27:12
to his timing yeah not according to mine yeah yeah does that make sense it does

27:20
and I and I the other part where I was coming back to you know as you were talking about it you know being habitual

27:26
I want to recognize you know um um there's a lot of well communication as we think about

27:34
it you know in its whole sense you know the primary or the major parts of

27:41
communication have more to do with body language and tone than the actual words

27:46
we use the actual words we use are about 7% actual um body language is about

27:54
55 and um tone is like 38% of the communication we have and

28:02
yet and yet so much of our Communications text messages emails well that's why we miss out that's why that's

28:10
why we get so confused it's like you know especially and here again I'm not being critical but especially when we're

28:17
not able to use um when we don't use our punctuation Even in our text because we

28:23
we can't understand where the divider comes into play you know where that sentence stopped or you know those kind

28:30
of things it's like what do we do with that but you know being able to

28:35
recognize that so much of our communication happens to where when I

28:41
see okay a tone when when I see body language okay when I hear a tone okay so

28:51
much of that can be connected to when I've heard that tone before all from my

28:56
primary function in the back of my head it's like okay I've heard that tone before I know what that means okay and

29:03
and yet you may not you know that's where the words tend to matter but as I'm thinking about this

29:10
and a lot of this comes out of family systems you know that process being able to recognize that the average emotion

29:22
lasts lasts approximately let's see 80

29:27
90 to 120 seconds the average emotion granted sadness grief can last for days

29:35
but when I think when I stop and think about that in the process of the average emotion happens in basically one and a

29:43
half to two minutes okay I'm going to recognize that so

29:50
often I tend to feel that emotion in the first 20 seconds you know in that

29:56
process it's it's starting but then as it gets towards 80 Seconds I feel that

30:01
ramping up of the emotion and so often what happens is like many things I get

30:09
to that instead of allowing that 90 and 120 seconds to go by and experiencing a

30:14
normal deescalation like the bell curve and the bell curve yes and and say being

30:21
able to say oh okay that's what sadness felt like yeah that's it's okay for me

30:26
to be sad and I can go to the other side and sure enough there's another emotion

30:32
that came and it's okay but if I get to that and this is where we've found in

30:37
family systems if I get to that 80 or a little less than that and somebody does

30:44
something because we can't tolerate that emotion that's where we create that biof feedback loop that's where I believe

30:52
alcohol can come into play and it becomes a it becomes a short circuit to

30:58
my ability to experience that emotion and have a natural release that comes

31:03
with like with a bell-shaped curve you follow me so we we and then once we get

31:08
that bof feedback loop okay we're able to recognize the tendency is

31:14
well I I can't stand that right you know that that becomes the thing that we say

31:19
I can't deal with this the struggle too isn't even that it's it's not just your brain saying that I mean the fact that

31:27
it's a biof feedback back Loop is your body telling your brain that and your brain agreeing and kind of this sure and

31:33
it's emotional because it's being emotionally LED not necessarily Co wise

31:39
mind cognitively LED yeah but in the in when addiction is that it's worse

31:45
someone will tell you my emotions say I don't want to do this again my brain tells me that I don't want to do this

31:50
again and yet I have to sure right so that's why I'm saying like I think it gets to the point where emotions are

31:59
kicked aside your brain's kicked aside and that biof feedback loop is ruling right like it's saying you need this now

32:06
get it now get it now get it now it's like freaking out at you and exactly I have to obey you know yeah and to not

32:13
have this would be terrible awful right yeah yeah and that's so that's where

32:20
that emotional Dynamic comes into play from I and that that Loop just gets

32:25
quicker and quicker because like a muscle group if you will it's becoming a

32:31
weaker atrop yeah it's atrophied at that point so then that ability to be able to

32:37
say okay no and then you know you'll talk about this uh you know um we talk

32:42
about it from the aspect of five minutes can be an eternity you know that aspect but being able to recognize okay if I

32:49
can endure something for a certain length of time I'm better able to

32:55
recognize I can lengthen that length of time mhm and in that process and I think

33:00
that's where that Focus if you will that meditation because as I'm able to choose

33:05
my focus and avoid going down the rabbit Trail I'm able to deal with a multitude

33:13
of emotions better whether it's anxiety and this is this is you know quite often in in where I'm coming from you know

33:21
we'll call it you know the Rabbit Trail or you know going down the rabbit hole

33:26
or something like that and I recognize how so

33:32
often the average individual doesn't even recognize that they're going there

33:39
you follow me because it has been such a default to be able to avoid pain to be

33:45
able to avoid a circumstance that it's become that habit to where that's just

33:52
where I go so when someone wrestles with that anxiety it makes perfect sense that

33:59
I've just gone down to if you will that that what if Rabbit Hole well what if

34:06
that happens well then well what if that happens then what if this happens and

34:11
you know and it's that process I just just heard myself say you know and I'm not supposed to say that so often but

34:18
I'm I'm being mindful of but I didn't know so so that was helpful no I know I don't know keep

34:24
going but in that process that be that that's when I'm living in that default

34:31
mechanism I'm in my what part of the brain limic nice nice what was the other

34:37
word this the s word it's a c actually C

34:42
it's actually single yeah I I have a tough time saying it singulate singulate

34:48
c i n g u a l

34:53
singu l a t e singulate yeah no one's going to argue with you except Lizzie

34:59
well yeah yeah I'll get a text after this one just uh for clarification and

35:05
I'll I'll I'll I'll I'll I'll let it I'll put the corrections in as they come forward but singul cortex cortex yes

35:12
that's where our em that's where our and that's actually that is actually in the prefrontal cortex which is in the the

35:19
the the towards the front of our brain yeah but that being said that's where

35:27
the whole aspect of meditation comes into play is my ability to exercise what

35:35
I focus on to be able to catch myself when I'm shifting away and be able to

35:42
bring that back in in such a way that I practice doing it and and and think

35:48
about I mean it's for me I can think about multiple people who I routinely hear you

35:56
know talk about about the anxiety you know that they are experiencing and I'm you know and that's not to say that

36:03
those people aren't experiencing it less because we tend to you know work on that kind of thing but it makes sense that so

36:12
often in our desire to create control or our desire we do it our way but I

36:19
believe you know God has given us this ability to be able to kind of remain

36:24
focused in such a way that says as a as a person thinks you know so they become

36:32
and I think that's an important part of that yeah and I mean and you see that with anxiety right as as they think so

36:40
they become as they as they think about all the circumstances they become anxious right sure um I like to peel

36:48
apart a little bit go ahead uh I think they're both equally valuable but I feel like they're slightly different um

36:55
application so mindfulness and in meditation sure um I mean maybe they're

37:02
maybe they're synonyms in some ways right um I feel like meditation is the

37:07
practice of mindfulness yep a in other words um I'm taking an opportunity right

37:16
now to be mindful when I don't have to be right so that that's kind of CH yeah

37:21
so that's kind of my perception of meditation is like I'm going to set aside some time to practice mindfulness

37:28
right where mindfulness in action to me looks more like in the

37:34
moment seeing the emotions on the bell curve and thinking about those emotions

37:39
processing them as they're floating in front of me as I'm angry and I'm furious I'm I'm kind of able to think about that

37:47
thought yes mindfulness is the ability to watch the emotions uh like a train in front of you yep right your own emotions

37:54
being able to see him come through and say yeah I'm mad right now oh I'm a little less mad oh I must be getting past the bell curve I'm a little less

38:01
mad or whatever oh now I'm sad I'm not mad anymore and being able to you know like we have that unique ability as

38:08
God's creation above and over and above animals right to actually be able to think about our thoughts which is an

38:15
Incredible Gift I think sometimes we take for granted and we kind of slip into more of that animal type don't

38:23
think about our thoughts just experience the thoughts sure you know uh I don't know what are your thoughts about

38:28
peeling those things apart where mindfulness is maybe more the I wouldn't um mindfulness I believe is like you're

38:36
saying it's kind of that process of being aware and I think you know um

38:44
meditation is the is the exercise that I practice every morning so that I can be

38:51
a little more I can have a little more strength to practice mindfulness throughout my day yeah I would yeah I

38:59
definitely is that basically what I thought I heard you say I think so yeah

39:04
only I only say that because I think I don't think they're always used interchangeably I think they're used

39:10
specifically for specific purposes and I think especially when you think of meditation you don't think oh somebody's

39:17
you know verbally abusing me right now um you know going to my meditation State

39:23
sure um that's not typically you know yeah a thing meditation is typically

39:31
more of a solitary intentional y momentary you

39:38
know regular periodic type of thing where mindfulness is more in the moment

39:43
yeah so if we're able to say that meditation is that moment where I focus on who God says I am and then I go out

39:51
into the world and somebody else tries starts to redefine who I I am I'm able

39:59
through mindfulness to be aware of what I've just heard or practiced previously

40:05
and I'm able to say hm that may be the way that you see me but that's not necessarily who I am yeah whereas

40:14
before without that practice right I would have said oh shuck that's exactly

40:20
who I am and you get to Define me yeah the thing that's amazing about this idea

40:27
is how powerful it really is and how

40:34
much value we ah who's we um I would say

40:40
pop culture doesn't give it right it's like you need Zanax well what if I told you yeah for

40:49
five minutes a day yeah you could do this practice and you won't need Xanax

40:55
you know what I mean like I don't know maybe again we're not giving medical advice at this point you know that kind

41:01
of disclaimer in the whole process but we're I'm in agreement with you because

41:07
we certainly should be getting our medical advice from pop culture either so exctly but yes yes car but but being

41:14
able to recognize kind of as I shared at the beginning you know more and more Physicians if you will are basically

41:22
recommending you know meditation as a treatment for you know blood pressure

41:30
issues anxiety you know you know depression those kind of things because

41:36
of that what I would what I would consider that default brain setting M

41:43
and you know that's singulate cortex system there you

41:48
go but yes yes but yes that's that's where that

41:54
comes from and it's and it's interesting you know as the the as we look towards

41:59
the the monks if you will you know the on average these guys are you know 15 to

42:04
50 the average some cases on some of the studies is like 35 years these

42:10
individuals have been practicing this you know technique yeah and so therefore you know you

42:17
recognize that it's not necessarily something that's just you can do but yet

42:23
you can't just do it at the snap of a finger but yet if you give it a shot for two weeks you're going to automatically

42:30
not automatically but you're you are going to experience some benefit of that

42:35
behavior in some way yeah and if you there's some cool reading about some

42:41
that monk stuff and like you can hear about some of the things that they can do as a result of that and it sounds

42:48
almost Supernatural and very similar to when you watch the Olympics and you see some of the people doing The Best of the

42:55
Best of the Best In terms of Any Given sport you're just like that look like magic that doesn't look yeah like no

43:02
human being should be able to do that exactly right I hear you and yet that human being just did and the one right

43:07
before him did it almost as good and the one right before it did almost you know it's like so these there's multiple

43:12
individuals all in a competition to do a thing that doesn't look like a human should ever be able to do um and I think

43:18
that can be should be encouraging in the sense that um I guarantee you any monk

43:23
you talk to would say you also can do this oh sure right I can teach you it's not difficult you

43:30
know the stuff I do is difficult but you know I practiced right same with the Olympic skier like maybe you won't ever

43:37
be an Olympic you know winner or whatever but I can teach you to ski and you can be good at it and you can enjoy it and it can be something that brings

43:43
value to your life well this is more than just fun this is talking about like controlling that's a strong word

43:50
controlling your brain right like being able to have strength over your brain's impulses and defaults and

43:57
every single person has the opportunity to do that and in fact a lot of times

44:03
you'll find um you know you'll hear stories about people who go to prison or what solitary confinement and they're

44:09
forced into this kind of sure left alone with their brain and something happens

44:15
there and they start to learn oh you know me and my brain are left here alone

44:20
and I can control it yes right yes and uh I think that's really cool you hear

44:25
stories of stuff like that uh I think of Victor Frankle you know pretty famous

44:31
psychiatrist talking about being in Nazi prison camps and realizing like oh like

44:36
they can try and force me to hate myself and all whatever but I actually just don't have to you know they can try and

44:43
take my freedom of my thoughts but they can't they can't reach into my brain and take my freedom of thoughts when they

44:49
want me to be angry I can say I choose not to be you know U just he had some

44:55
really cool um and I think about that and I think so often this is you know the the whole uh

45:02
there's a tri behavioral triangle if you will that's basically at the bottom if

45:07
you if I may you would have on my on my right you would say have be you would

45:13
have um thoughts and on my left on the bottom you would have feelings and at

45:19
the top you would have Behavior okay so your Victor Frankl are

45:25
basically taking that thought and they they can feel but they're not

45:30
letting so they'll think feel develop a behavior whereas if we're going into and

45:38
then that behavior corrects helps them recognize the the benefit of the thought

45:43
you follow Mees that Mak sense as we look at a triangle and go around it so if I'm thinking then feeling that'll be

45:50
decide of behavior I'll get a completely different Behavior if I'm going the other direction from my left to my right

45:58
if I'm allowing my feeling to decide what I think then I get a completely

46:04
different Behavior at the top MH does that make sense yeah um for example I

46:10
see you downtown I come out of a store downtown I wave to

46:16
you okay you don't wave back now at that point

46:23
sorry yeah but I never heard you say sorry I have the ability to take that

46:29
feeling okay of rejection and tend to

46:34
say my behavior I'm not going to wave at Justin again you follow me in that

46:40
process or I can allow my thoughts to say Okay I I felt rejection I can go to

46:47
my thought and say that's not like Justin he must be thinking about a lot

46:52
he must be busy so then and my behavior doesn't change I'll still wave to you the next time but if I allow that

46:59
rejection to decide what my thought is versus my thoughts deciding what that

47:05
feeling was you that it makes a tremendous difference on my behavior over time does that make sense it does

47:12
yeah and I and I as you were talking about the Olympic people and by all means I want to I I think about those

47:18
people who definitely you know memorize scripture well the there's an individual

47:26
from SE a few well I there's there's one individual who has an Olympic ability to

47:33
memorize scripture and like say I W but you know I she came to mind in that

47:40
process of being able to say yeah that's that's that's Olympic type you know

47:46
biblical memorization of scripture and I'm always impressed by that you know

47:51
yeah it's like I'm trying I'm it's like I got my Bible right in front of me and you know and I'm stumbling to find the

47:58
font get it so I can see it in my glasses and it's almost like she's already tell telling me the scripture as

48:05
you read it out so that's always you know an impressive thing and I can't imagine how that would transform a

48:10
person's you know perspective on who they are that kind of thing make sense it does make sense and

48:18
just so we're clear the Bible talks about this a lot yes very much so talks about meditating on his word day and

48:24
night tied around your you neck take it with you yep teach it to your children

48:30
teach it to your children yeah like there's so many scriptures about um just

48:35
staying focused on him and it's because he knows all of the science he designed

48:41
the science you know exactly and I always like we've talked about this before I always love when science kind

48:46
of catches up to what the Bible's saying and the Bible has been saying this since

48:51
the beginning of time and we just chalk it up to one of God's rules yeah and

48:56
then science goes no no no God knew the science and you know and we go oh yeah

49:02
cuz he made the science right like um so I think that's really cool the the Bible

49:07
so when you read the Bible as you should be you know meditate on day and night right sure I've his his word in my heart

49:14
bring it in yeah hide his hide God's word in your heart yeah as you're doing those things like as you read the scriptures pay attention to where he's

49:20
talking about this stuff and see see see how significant it really is in his word

49:26
u how valuable how important it is um and this is why because it will like the

49:33
Bible says um be transformed by the renewing of your mind right this is how

49:39
he does it his words sure his words will transform your mind well he gives a whole book of them so that's why he says

49:46
meditate on them because those words will transform your mind because those words are truth and the ones that are

49:51
fighting around in your singulate cortex typically aren't true

49:57
right very much full Truth uh so yeah yeah well thanks Justin yeah thank you

50:04
Mark any other any other uh concerns questions and I appreciate the I I just wanted you to know I appreciate the

50:09
clarification between you know meditation and mindfulness and and

50:15
granted like you say I probably initially used them interchangeably but I agree with you in that process they're

50:20
not you know necessarily completely synonymous but equally important oh sure

50:26
right yeah and like they're complimentary I exactly it's a good

50:31
clarification of they're not the same word yeah and you know one is the exercise of the other in a lot of cases

50:39
yeah yeah yeah so go go do that turn us off and do some some list just just do

50:47
yeah have meditate for a moment after you shut off the podcast about also that's why music's good like music's a

50:52
good thing uh for some people for some people it enhances focus on the thing

50:58
that they want to be meditating on sure for some people they they it's not it's distracting and it can bring the pain

51:03
too yeah yeah that's true yeah so uh music has you're gonna have to well

51:09
that'll be another good subject it would yeah yeah yeah that' be one for you to lead since we got since we got uh what

51:15
was it what was it uh Elias dummer no no no all I can think of is octane octave

51:21
octave since we got octave figured out there that's the eighth eighth note to this next level up that's right same

51:28
next level up so now we got that figur step just higher that's right now

51:36
we got that figured out we could talk about music as uh yes meditation the how we see music being beneficial or not so

51:43
yeah yeah yeah yeah well thanks for sh sharing Justin yeah no thank you Mark

51:49
thanks for bringing the well singular cortex olymic words system system that's

51:56
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