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[Music] thumbs up let's do this let's do this

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good morning Justin good morning Mr Mark how are you oh I am well I am

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blessed just just enjoying morning Lizzie turns 21 today 21 today when you

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hear this yeah sure wish her happy birthday and she'll be like what cuz it'll be some Weeks Later exactly but

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yeah yes just a 21 y just sitting in the blessing of uh 21

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years ago mhm and and you can't tell maybe you can hear it in his voice but

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Mark got a beard trim and a haircut so if he sounds a little fresher I I feel

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fresher I feel stronger even yeah yes you look stronger and fresher for sure

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well thank you MH thank you I'm just sitting up a little taller this morning M yeah yeah and you're also kind of

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seems like a little excited to talk about this topic I am I am it's uh as we

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as I've wrestled thought read you know the stuff we try to do uh

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to uh promote it's I've I've grown in my fear of the Lord in that a sense in that

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process of being fearfully and wonderfully made it's just kind of a it's it's a it's been a neat

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overwhelming kind of yeah from an information and yeah it's just been really

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[Music]

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neat welcome to how I see it with me Mark Pratt and Justin Sternberg this is

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a podcast that works to countercultural polarization through

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thoughtful [Music] conversations and what is this topic

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we're going to talk about well cuz I said one thing and you said you sure we're not talking about this other

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thing I'm going to tell you right now Justin I'm going to need your help this morning otherwise we might end up in the

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Tall Weeds cuz like you say we're uh what was what was the one you you were talking about neural Pathways neural

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Pathways correct yeah and I'm also curious too if you've because I brought

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this up to you said I think we should talk about this but I didn't really think about it in terms of whether it's

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a polarizing top iPic or not cuz I mean it's not exactly but oh it is it is very

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polarizing all right right within our scientific Community it becomes very polarizing all right well that's what

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we're going with then this is a very polarizing Topic in our scientific Community tune in

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yes but it's interesting because um uh as you as we talk about neurop

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Pathways I uh I view neurop Pathways kind of like a um

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used to used to say the word Creek but it is a creek I used to call it Creek that's what it was Creek yeah it's kind

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of like a creek mhm and but it's not a crook it's not a crook that's right and I am not a

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crook and it but it's a really old school joke it is but it's not a cck but

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it's a creek like that goes through and and it flows yep and it has a purpose I

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don't know what that was but it it has a purpose and until we either change that flow by

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doing something different mhm or we experience trauma which may overflow

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that bed okay we it becomes that's that's kind of the a pathway just like a

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path into through the grass yes it it becomes the way that our

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um like I say there's there's electromagnetic process you know that that's where it flows so essentially

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that's the the metaphor for neural Pathways right that Creek in our brain that kind of flows the where it's going

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to flow without interruption it will continue right like that yes yes because

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it has a purpose and if that purpose changes or if I change my thoughts

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regarding that purpose then that's when that process

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changes and changing my thoughts okay is what we're talking about as far

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as neuroplasticity and that's our brain's ability to be

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malleable and that's where it comes back to from a science perspective there was

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the the process that our brain is above our body in other words our we can't

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think anything differently than what our brain was pre program to do does that

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make sense that's the that's a Viewpoint you're saying that is a Viewpoint that's a that's a polarizing Viewpoint that

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basically our brain we are born and our brain is pre-wired so therefore it

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minimizes or even can um negate Free Will MH so it's

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that's like the nature side of nature versus nurture to a degree yes yes maybe

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okay yes because what happens is I don't really have a choice mhm but if we're

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able to recognize free will on the other side of that process is my thoughts

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matter and that's where that's where epigenetics comes into play all right

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let's hear the definition of that one it's not atmology because we covered that one a few weeks that's right but

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EPA EPA give me the etymology of EP EP how do I say it epigenetics

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epigenetics okay let's have it epigenetics okay EPA meaning the top or

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above okay like our epidermis that's the top layer our skinh okay so

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epigenetics is that my thoughts or my

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mind is above my brain okay yeah the brain isn't the mechanism M that the the

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epigenetics is that there is this process that's above genes so for so

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long and and still in our science Community the tendency is to think about it in the sense of genes MH so cuz

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they're like the blueprint right I mean that's the concept that that's that's part of it to where if we can isolate

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that Gene okay yeah then we can change the the process if you will yeah and and

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what happens epigenetics basically says no there's a process above that okay so the way that

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I think the and and it I've been reminded so much of Mary Ellen and Mary

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Beth in this because even even the food that we

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consume can change part of our genetic process and the thoughts we have can

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also change that to where who we are is according to much

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what as we've developed our understanding and the ability to measure

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what happens in the brain and how it works and how it flows you know we're

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able to recognize that 90% of who we are okay not so much from a um a physical

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standpoint but yes even our physical being being you know is controlled by our

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thoughts and the and this is this is the neat part to me because what part of my

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brain structure or my Gene mapping if you will is actually passed

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through my sperm and the OVA it's able to pass through that in what is

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communicated to the Next Generation and yet we recognize in that

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90% okay it's not that that person

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is destined okay because they still because of what has been passed on to

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them because they still have the ability of free will to make choices regardless

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of the map that has transcended the sperm in the open does that make sense

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it does make sense so everything in Scripture that basically says children to the third and fourth generation okay

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is absolutely true MH you know much of many things are passed on through the

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family systems and yet the individual still has free will to choose

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so therefore they have the responsibility to choose so the aspects

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of good DNA or you know good genes she has good

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genes or he was born that way are actually a myth yeah well they they're

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not a myth in the sense that there's nothing to it right is that correct it's in other words it's passed through yes

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it it is passed through but that doesn't mean that that's who that person right

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is as far as a destined as a defining yes yes yeah I think that's incredible

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and obviously something that feels intuitively true to

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me based on like being involved in recovery for a long time and seeing people who share their stories of this

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is what I was and this is what my parents were and this is what their parents were and now I'm not that you

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know and in the course of one lifetime kind of breaking that chain yes you know

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yes exactly yeah and the the the neat part of it is we're this is what kind of brings up the awe

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part for me is that this is new science this is you know Cutting Edge in other

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words you know we always uh talked about it even with our kids it's like yeah you

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know you got to take this class you got to you know you got to have these complex classes because it challenges

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your ability to think because there's jobs that aren't even made yet that you

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might be a part of you follow me y it's like am I ever going to use this critical thinking stuff well and it

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reminds me of that because in reality I think you know neuros science is part of

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that to where there are you know with this information jobs are being created and you know that we've never heard of

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before but the reality of it is I believe thinking is thinking is a

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god-given ability okay and in in my from my persp perspective it's what makes us most like

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God and our ability to do that or how he has created us with that process is

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probably next below well yeah so go ahead the uh the

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thing that does that that kind of is the defining characteristic is when you can think about your

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thoughts yes and we can right so that's the difference between you know I mean

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you could argue that maybe a dog is thinking you know whether they should disobey or obey you or whatever you know

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whatever whatever animal in there's some intelligent animals but can you imagine looking at a chimp as he's you know you

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know plucking flies out of his friend and eating them or whatever is he thinking existential thoughts about his

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thoughts sure very unlikely we I mean yes there's there's no proof of that anyway but that is definitely the

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defining characteristic I think when it comes to the difference between us and the rest of creation and what makes us like God

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is that and that is this thing yes right that is what makes all the difference

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that ability to think about your thoughts means you can now in many ways control those thoughts yes redirect

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those thoughts which using your creek analogy and we exactly and we we can't

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control you know things but we can choose our respon

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to them right and that and and it it just when we really stop and think about

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that I'm reminded of myself or in when I listen at times to others how often you

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can hear a person's thoughts in what they're saying and yet it's not until we

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say it out loud that we realize oh that's what I was thinking you follow me

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you know how many times we've refer to I can't how many times a day would we

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likely say that and how does that impact who we are yeah and it's I mean

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yeah you're probably the same way maybe with your kids but that's always been a pet peeve when sure um excuse me yes uh

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if you say that then you won't and you yeah it's true you know it's kind of that self-fulfilling

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right yeah but yeah and so that's that's that's where the epigenetics part above

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genetics in other words yes we pass on these genes and we we have received them

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and yet that's not who we have to be because our thoughts can change our DNA

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structure in such a way and and it basically comes down to even differences

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between toxic thought and how that affects our ability and it it

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the here again I'll just just just give me a little chain here but feel free to pull back if I um and I I think about it

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in the way we think okay and how the way we think affects our

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body okay yes and for example if we were to go back 12 years

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and say for example you are experiencing depression you know that kind of thing

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you would have been given you know what we'd call an SSRI um selective this is the word I

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like selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor okay that's sounds familiar

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that exactly so this is the interesting part because what what we are if I may

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say and this is nothing against medication okay but this is what we are learning this is what we are

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understanding now based on science is that 12 years later what I'm going to

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prescribe for you from a therapeutic standpoint doesn't have to be an

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SSRI I'm going to I'm going to prescribe to you something that's very similar to

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prayer it's going to be called meditation okay and I'm going to recommend that you can control your

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thoughts and when you find yourself heading down that I'll call it negative

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Rabbit Hole I'm going to challenge you to take that thought captive that's

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going to sound much like scripture you follow me and I'm going to be a and we're going to be able to recognize as

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you select if I may your thoughts you're

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able to transform your thinking and and where

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how you create that same level of sin serotonin in your own brain you follow

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me yeah and the reality of it is it's like in scripture we can look back and

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how often are we reminded to take our thoughts captive to renew our mind and

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it's interesting because now science is actually catching up with scripture yes

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that that is exciting and honestly that's exactly so this Sunday the

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message we had you know it's the last message in a series called pred decide sure right so pred decide right there

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we're talking about taking thoughts captive basically we're pre pre

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meditating on decisions essentially right sure and um you know we read from Romans 121 and2 which I'm going to read

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which we don't ever we always just you know paraphrase I'm going to read one

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okay uh so Romans 121 and2 says I appeal to you Brothers by the mercies of God present your bodies as a Living

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Sacrifice holy and acceptable to God which is your SP spiritual worship and do not be conformed to this world but be

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transformed by the renewal of your mind that might that by testing you may discern what is the will of God what is

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good and acceptable and perfect and you know we went through that and kind of he

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taught through that scripture a little bit but my brain was just worrying as I was thinking about you know this

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renewing of our mind like you just said my I was thinking science is starting to

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catch up with this concept yes that these neur Pathways this neuroplasticity

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in our brain there's this ability for our brain to be transformed to be

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renewed yes right and there's there's starting to be scientific proof of that and um like you said like actual methods

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for accomplishing that and when you find out what they're saying hey we we're finding out these methods work to carve

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New Paths and that those creeks in your brain they look a lot like prayer they look a lot like meditation they look a

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lot like surrender yes right and uh so I just thought that was incredible and I

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was just thinking about how you know a lot of times we can't get out of our

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existing patterns that Creek bed yes if we're we can't if we're in it yeah right

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yeah like you know I think we talked about this before I think it's an Einstein quote you can't solve a problem

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from the same level that you created it sure right so if you're stuck in that

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same pattern you have to surrender out of it mhm which is why I really like you

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know basically that scripture is kind of the method to accomplish mind renewal

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which is first offering your body a Living Sacrifice this idea of surrendering what you think you know yes

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right to to a higher power someone who's above the level that you are sure right and then allowing his word come in and

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give you new ideas sure right yeah and as that happens your brain starts

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carving New Paths going oh oh I can trust him in this situation instead of

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trying control it or you know what I mean I do and my mind was just like thinking about all these things in terms

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of yeah this neural these neural Pathways and stuff and if I can trust him in this area I can probably trust

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him in that area and that area and that area your creek is starting to diverge

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into these other new yeah know waterways or whatever that were never there before

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exactly and that's and that's neuroplasticity our brain's ability to

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rewire reconfigure to be malleable in such a way that I can be a completely

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different person yeah it's incredible it is and it's interesting because we know

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you know we've known where parts of these things happen in the brain early

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on pre viously like well if I may early on um we understood uh Phineas Gage okay

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um was a minor okay I really like Phineas and verb yeah I'm just saying not the same

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Phineas but he was a minor long story short he was a supervisor

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and he had a rod I think it was a brass Rod that he would Tap maybe it wasn't

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brass but either way he was a minor he would tap the drilling holes when they

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blasted in the mines long story short he tapped his Rod into one of those

21:09
blasting holes and it set off a blast and it shot that Rod up through below

21:15
his eye cavity and out through the top of his brain okay ouch ouch but he

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lived okay so he was like the first example it's unbelievable so a rod went

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through face right below his face like came yes up through the front what we' call the

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prefrontal cortex of his brain okay and he lived so this was this was like

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miraculous yeah because somebody had experienced a brain injury and lived but

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what we know about who Phineas was was he changed dramatically because of that

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experience okay prefrontal Vortex basically is our where our executive

22:02
function takes place okay so all of our ability to schedule kind of if you think

22:08
about it from executive function it's that CEO of our mind right okay y so he

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because of his injury he lost that he was no longer able to function as a

22:22
manager he basically became a beggar if you will because he

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he had lost that executive function of his brain which we understand but yet he

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became belligerent and just kind of a drunker that kind of thing in that day

22:40
and we we his his skull is still in you know some Museum somewhere that

22:47
basically and that began this process that we are kind of learning further

22:52
about today was that certain parts of the brain do certain things and you know

22:58
there's other parts you know where where we'll talk about that you know um if you not necessarily of a design perspective

23:06
you know Reptilian Brain mamillion Brain that kind of thing but you know it's going to be a process of primary

23:12
function our lower back where all all of our senses are connected and then our executive function and when we can keep

23:20
our executive when he said lower back he was pointing to the lower back part of his skull not he's not saying part of

23:26
your brain is in your lower back yes my upper neck lower lower back of my head but yes that's where primary function

23:33
just figured I'd draw the picture so eloquently drawing with your hand

23:39
motion but yes it's that ability to recognize okay I've been designed this

23:45
way for a reason and and the reality of it is the designer knows the purpose and

23:51
we're just catching up with it and I because um you can actually if you don't mind um Deuteronomy 309

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oh is is another is another uh area because I like what it what it says and

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that's just one example when we think about going back that's one example

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where we can say Okay God is encouraging us to

24:16
choose and he gives us this process if you want to read that one that's a that's a good one

24:22
okay I don't think that's the one what what Deuteronomy 3019 309 I had 2013

24:29
okay which talks about putting all its males to the sword I don't think that's what you

24:35
sorry uh 30 309 309 I'm getting there it's okay sorry I didn't mean to put you

24:43
on the spot there no you're good and it's going to put me on the spot if suddenly this is and all their males

24:48
were put to the sword again H okay yep I call Heaven and Earth

24:55
to witness against you today that I have set before you life and death blessing and curse therefore

25:02
choose life that you and your Offspring may [Music]

25:07
live you want me to keep going no that's fine I mean but that's the proc in other words there's God is given us Heaven and

25:15
Earth is this witness that we have the ability to choose and we get to choose

25:22
each and every day and sometimes it is a matter of choice between blessings and

25:29
curse cuz sometimes curses are handed down to me from the third and fourth generation but that's not to say that's

25:36
who I have to be I can choose blessing and I can choose life yeah and it's it's

25:43
so important to understand the realities of those things because that's the uh

25:48
kind of the impetus for the choosing right so if I understand those patterns that are in me inherently due to those

25:55
that genetic code passed down well now I know I have to do the work to override

26:01
those things more so than maybe my spouse or or you know whoever my friend

26:07
but knowing that that's the case I think a lot a lot of times really helps which I which is again going back I can't help

26:14
but I always go back to the principles of recovery and stuff like that but the first step is denial sure the first

26:20
principle the first uh lesson is denial and because until I admit that I have

26:26
that thing sure you know in this case we're going to say a pattern passed out my for my parents or whatever right

26:31
genetic code um until I can understand and admit that there's no moving forward

26:37
right sure and so I do I do think you can try to not admit that that that is

26:44
inherent in my genetic code and still do choose try and choose around that and

26:50
and go forward I think the problem with that is it's a little bit of an ignorant stumbling if you don't know exactly the

26:57
path you want to avoid and which will help and guide and direct the path you want to take sure is that fair and I

27:04
think it's very fair and I think in addition to that what you're if if I'm hearing you

27:11
correctly what you're saying is that we have a choice or I'm what I'm hearing is

27:18
we make a choice each day whether we know it or not m in many ways mhm when

27:26
we follow the pattern M even if it's in

27:31
ignorance we're still making a choice M to follow versus that ability that I

27:37
have to say okay is this what I want is this the behavior that I desire to

27:43
continue in I think that could be a polarizing statement right yeah that I'm

27:50
you're choosing to do the bad thing but if you by default right if you consider

27:57
the fact that you can choose otherwise yes right well now you have to recognize

28:03
that the path you were on is also a choice like you said a default Choice sure right but still a choice and again

28:12
I think that ties very nicely into the lot of the you know stuff with recovery in terms of like denial and saying I you

28:19
know I can't fix it it's it's beyond me it's just who I am or whatever okay yep you're right CU that's the decision

28:25
you're making and yeah and from my perspective um as you were sharing I'm

28:31
thinking still in that it is a we we do have a choice which comes back to free

28:37
will this is what makes it polarizing because if I'm saying that I have to recognize okay either I do or I don't

28:45
have a choice sometimes but my free will it gives me the opportunity to choose

28:51
and that's where from my perspective that's where the epigenetics comes into play because I can realize some of these

28:57
things have been passed on to me and when and this is this is part of um I'm

29:03
going to call this the uh psychological part of that denial okay because so

29:10
often what happens is decisions we make

29:16
okay are based on our subconscious okay it's not necessarily

29:22
up into if I I'm I'm putting my hand here and I got a hand above and I got a hand below so when I put my right hand

29:28
below my left hand that's subconscious MH okay so what what my thoughts do what

29:36
my brain does is anything that's in subconscious is still available to me

29:43
available to me it becomes the neural Pathways that my mind that my brain operates in okay that's subconscious and

29:50
what my brain does is it looks back at all of the the patterns that have been

29:57
demonstrated all the modeling that I've seen and it tends to make that decision

30:03
for me okay but each time it's it's it's very similar to our communication okay

30:11
now you and I we typically listen to this at one and a half because our

30:16
communication tends to occur slower than we might like okay but in communication

30:24
good communication it can take up to 7 to 10 seconds for a person who's

30:29
actually listening to respond to meh because I'm actually processing that so

30:36
when I gain awareness okay that 7 to 10 seconds is

30:42
still available to me in every choice I make but when I gain awareness of it I

30:48
bring it up into my Consciousness and therefore I've gained awareness and because I have awareness

30:56
now I choose differently what to do with that same 7 to 10 seconds that has been

31:03
an automatic neural pathway practically beforehand does that make sense it does

31:09
and that kind of ties into the meditation side of things right in the sense that you're trying to slow down

31:15
and require the subconscious things to move up yes into the layer where you are

31:21
actively manipulating those thoughts sure right yes yes to where I'm active

31:27
active ly making a different choice and that is actually rewiring my brain yeah

31:35
and it's and it's interesting because you know I tend to think of positive and negative thoughts okay some would say um

31:43
I would even say h um healthy or toxic thought yeah okay if I continue in a

31:50
pattern of toxic thought it's going to affect how I think okay that's that's

31:57
the reality and I and I'm and I'm this is part of the neat part and the freeing

32:03
part for me is that I recognize how much of the influence we have around

32:11
us propagates toxic thought there's not

32:17
enough you know there's this um scarcity mindset as we've talked about before you

32:23
know there's not enough there can't be enough you know there's only there's only only so many resources in the petri

32:30
dish and you know and we're going to use them all up and you know and it's like

32:36
I'm not sure well I know I'm not I'm sure that that's not the case right and

32:41
yet that becomes the promotion and it's interesting to me

32:46
because I'm I'm hearing if if we're going to come back

32:52
to the aspect and you know here again credit to Mary Beth and maryon for doing this hard work but if we're going to

32:58
come back to roughly 70 to 85% of our health is actually affected

33:08
by how we think okay yeah I'm going to recognize that we are seeing that I am

33:15
actually seeing in my small scale I am seeing more and more teenagers who are

33:20
wrestling with anxiety I am hearing more and more about younger kids who are are

33:28
who have cancer and from my mind I'm automatically going there and saying

33:33
okay what are we continuing to promote and how is it really affecting

33:39
the health of our our young young adults

33:45
and kids in this process that you know I just and it still comes back to

33:51
scripture for me because God hasn't given us a spirit of fear you know he's given us a spirit of love and when we're

33:59
able to power and love in a sound mind sound mind yes thank you for the rest of that that ability to be able to say okay

34:08
I don't have to live in this fear I don't have to live in this anxiety and

34:14
yet that's not judgmental because I recognize how people who have

34:19
experienced you know tremendous hurt you know they can get caught in that cycle

34:26
of thinking and and fear and ruminating in such a way that it captures

34:33
them yeah and yet you've experienced it I know I've experienced it where you

34:39
know people who have the ability to process that and say okay that's not who

34:45
I am that's not who I that's not what I want to choose to think about and we can

34:52
see that transformation that occurs that's that's where this comes

34:58
back to for me yeah and what you're describing again is that pattern of the world yes right

35:06
yes and you know I think growing up when I would hear these verses and I would

35:12
immediately think like just don't be such a sinner like yes like don't think about sinful things uh which of course I

35:19
think it means that as well but I'm saying it is saying all of those things like this pattern that we get stuck in

35:26
our brains yes right this fear um this limited mindset you know just all the

35:33
things that you were describing is is the pattern of the world and it doesn't align with the pattern that he has for

35:39
us exactly which is why again it kind of comes back to the surrendering of that which is that uh you know Living

35:46
Sacrifice it says Living Sacrifice specifically because number one we're not required to die to be the sacrifice

35:52
and number two it's active it's not a passive effort it's an active effort to

35:57
which kind of goes back to that daily mindfulness kind of that same ties right back in the same science that we're

36:03
finding right that's it's a daily effort to continue to transform that brain yes

36:10
right re replacing the the default patterns that were handed down to me

36:16
through my genetics yes that are ever present in every situation I'm in like

36:22
how many you know 90% of our interactions

36:27
throughout the day you're going to see a pattern exhibited that doesn't align with healthiness sure correct wouldn't

36:35
you say 90% is a very high number okay I don't think there's I don't think you can put a number on the point is it's

36:41
all around us right you go to the gas station and someone's upset at the cashier or you know what I mean you go

36:46
to the um yeah I I will say statistically speaking 85 I believe it's

36:55
85 to 90% of the thoughts that we think are the same as yesterday yeah so unless

37:02
we're actively you know challenging those thoughts we are going to tend to

37:08
repeat the same behavior as the day before mhm but each day we choose a

37:14
different Journey affects that 80 to 95 85 to

37:20
90% yeah and and the the neat part I like about what you're saying is we can

37:26
recognize because as I understand this process okay not that

37:34
sin isn't an issue okay but it's become less of an issue for me because as I

37:41
look at this okay I'm better from my

37:46
perspective I see God in what he is doing and I see his grace and I see his

37:54
Mercy that basically he understand every choice I make and why I'm making

38:01
it based on what has been handed down to me okay he

38:09
understands it and yet he still provides a way out of it m so it's just it's just

38:17
transformed the fact that you know I and it it it brings to light that aspect

38:25
of as I see it Satan is the Father of Lies okay and it brings that um oh

38:33
what's the word when some Temptation thank you you're welcome my

38:39
pleasure it brings temptation to mind because we're surrounded we can be

38:44
surrounded by lies but we can also challenge those lies with the truth in such a way that

38:52
is Grace filled MH and it it just it just transform forms for me that

38:59
perspective not in a not in a arrogant sense but here again coming back to the

39:05
awe that I have for God that he knows all of it and he provides us a way out

39:13
of it right and we have a choice just like he's given clear back in

39:18
Deuteronomy just like he gave you know everyone choose this day whom you will serve you know choose to be courageous

39:26
be strong and courage you know all of that it's it's like he's still speaking that same way to us today

39:35
as he did to Moses and Abraham and you know all and Caleb and you know all

39:41
those people who did those things I think in some ways they have

39:48
that they might have felt that very same way that I'm doing right now right then

39:54
mhm you follow me oh absolutely yeah yeah that's that's that's the grace filled part for

40:00
me yeah and you know speaking of polarizing things as we do you know you

40:06
mentioned sin and it's not you know quite as however you described it and my

40:12
thought about that is that we really really want clear

40:18
definitions of sin we want to know is that thing a sin or not can I can I do that thing yes right up to that fence

40:25
where is the line right where are the lines so where it's it's it's sin or it's just uh depression sure it's sin or

40:35
it's just worry sure it's sin or it's just um the tacos yeah the tacos right

40:44
and I think I'm with you but I I I want to phrase it maybe a different way to

40:50
say that I think there's a lot more depends on how you want to Define sin

40:56
but essentially that subconscious layer and that genetic code passed down to us that says you know when someone offends

41:03
you punch them in the face sure that's what we call our flesh sure okay this is

41:09
this is why we're uh from birth in need of something better bigger stronger

41:16
purer than us sure because from the get-go we don't have even the level of

41:22
quote unquote righteousness that we need to to accomplish you know what needs to

41:27
be done um and I think that's so important to understand that like even our Tendencies towards you know

41:35
behaviors that are harmful to us sure like worry we want to be really careful and

41:42
not offend people to say your worry is not a sin we we don't want to say that but at the same time I don't think I

41:48
think we we spend too much time defining what sin is and spend not enough time trying to transform our mind right like

41:55
trying to think his thoughts and stop thinking our thoughts and I would argue if if if the choice is my thoughts

42:02
versus his thoughts you know there's a pretty high likelihood there's some sin in there whether you you know whether I

42:08
want to call my depression sin or not like if I can't shake my beliefs and my

42:15
thoughts and replace them with his then I'm going to argue that that's a sinful position that makes sense yeah that

42:22
makes perfect sense I appreciate your clarification that's kind of what I was wanting to convey in a

42:27
in a not ego egocentric or you know egotistical manner that you know sin

42:33
doesn't matter I don't but I you you said it very well I guess and part of

42:38
the reason I want to I I choose to make that clarification for me as well is

42:44
because when it's not as clear where sin is and it's more likely that I'm sinning

42:51
more often than than I'm willing to to believe right sure well now Grace really

42:56
matters sure right and I do think that's where the Pharisees got it wrong they're like

43:02
okay we we drew the lines you know the fence was erected around our lives and

43:08
we no longer allow sin in sin lives outside the fence yep and Jesus saying

43:13
you fools you're whitewashed you know tombs you're you're dir you're dirty on the inside and clean on the outside yes

43:20
you know what I'm saying yeah and so they clearly got it wrong and we tend to get it wrong when we think oh that thing

43:26
is the sin versus Sin just kind of comes out of me and what needs to happen is I need to put him back in me to

43:34
continually Living Sacrifice sacrificially replace myself with him you know removing those old

43:41
patterns of the world and allowing when I get rid of myself and allow him to come in through that surrender through

43:48
that daily sacrifice well now he begins to renew my mind yes right and so

43:54
tomorrow yep 15% I'm not thinking the same way exactly right you said 85% so

44:01
there's 15% that on a daily basis we can tap into where he's transforming us so

44:07
that my patterns slowly adjust over time and I used to be heading this direction I'm pointing exactly to my left and uh

44:16
over the course of some years of doing this daily work of transforming allowing him to come in and transform 15% of my

44:23
thoughts in that day I'm now over here pointing this direction exact my mind has been transformed and renewed right

44:30
and I think that's uh that happens when you recognize the need to continually

44:39
suppress self which continually desires to fall into those patterns that I've

44:45
been handed down and or are modeled right in front of my face like I was saying as you walk out into the world

44:50
it's like oh you know or you watch TV you watch news and you see those patterns all of that stuff is

44:58
continually trying to become the default sure right and we have to do the the work of that surrender yep you know and

45:06
I and I I like the analogy you brought up with the you know the Pharisees and

45:11
we can recognize how for Generations that had been etched in their thinking

45:17
that was handed down it was passed on and when it came the moment to make a

45:22
choice they just they just didn't you follow me all of all the information was

45:29
there and it and in some ways it it's kind of similar to our our perspectives

45:35
today because I think at times and I I like the way you describe it in this

45:40
transition to be more christm minded because I think in our day and age you know we can have this aspect of

45:48
open-mindedness you know to where and I think in some ways you know science is

45:55
basically saying that yeah some of this open-mindedness may not be all it's cracked up to be either because the this

46:02
is this you what it reminded me of is individuals okay who

46:09
[Music] were basically who dealt with depression okay

46:17
if they recited or repeated positive eye statements yeah

46:24
over a longer period of time it's air essentially right well it it's eye

46:29
statements yes I'm um what's no no you're fine uh what was the movie uh the

46:35
help remember the help where the uh the the maid was telling the little girl you

46:40
are kind you are beautiful you know there was you were strong you know well that was an affirmation yeah okay but if

46:47
I'm taking it from an eye standpoint I am strong I am kind research says that

46:55
basically doing that doesn't make a person better it actually can be

47:02
counterproductive because when they're it's it's just about me and what it what

47:07
it does in some ways is it creates more cognitive dissonance it's it's where

47:13
what I'm what I'm what I'm feeling doesn't necessarily align with what I'm thinking but if I can

47:21
transform and I recognize that I'm not the center of the universe but there's

47:26
something big ger than me in the center of the universe that's when the transformation occurs they actually were

47:33
able to measure okay people with um HIV they were actually able to

47:41
measure the amount um it it was a load

47:47
um like uh what would negative things in your bloodstream be negative thing yeah

47:54
it's in other words like when you're sick you have too much iron no you have a higher level of um uh it's oh shucks

48:04
I'm just going to throw out blood words hemoglobin I think that's a good one it's a long it's like like Mary Beth

48:11
would have called the offens offences okay I'm going to call it I apologize I

48:16
don't have that the words not coming up to me but they were actually able to measure the it was a load it was

48:24
like things that a fence load yeah we'll call it the offense load okay in their

48:29
blood system and those who actually were

48:35
able to recognize or admit that there is a loving God okay the load that a fence

48:45
load actually diminished for them they could measure that in their blood with

48:51
people who had HIV to and if a to where if a person

48:57
didn't have that feeling it was like their their their levels kept climbing

49:02
instead of dropping by that third and it basically and and there

49:07
again that's part of the epigenetic process because we can recognize all um

49:14
twins are not the same person there's those subtle differences that I make by

49:20
choosing cuz if it if our brains were all you know machines okay no no twin would ever be

49:28
different because they have the same genetic code right that's right so they so therefore if they're same genetic

49:34
code and our brains are machines those two individuals would continually be but that's where epigenetics come in each

49:40
person can make those subtle choices and the and the child that is born three

49:46
minutes ahead is going to have a different standing to a certain degree than the the quote unquote younger twin

49:54
mhm you follow me and all this and it's just fascinating when you think about that in that context of you know these

50:02
are how powerful our choices are and our environment is and yet we have this

50:08
ability to choose it differently and even down to the food we consume they did a a study with mice

50:15
okay certain mice um aot aot agatti mice

50:20
okay tend to be yellow and they tend to be overweight or obese okay but what

50:26
they did there's a there's a complex name for it but what they did was they gave them B vitamin before they made it

50:36
and just that influx of dietary Dynamics changed the Gen genetic code within

50:43
those mice to where that next Generation no longer strug struggled to be fat and

50:50
obese just because of the B vitamin being introduced before they made it and

50:55
it and it actually proves they they went on to do that and research how obesity

51:01
is affected even in humans based on what we consume even um is it n are you

51:08
familiar with n yeah it's it's that process to be able to recognize how

51:14
certain foods I have learned to be Comfort foods for me and when I'm

51:21
transforming my thinking about what that food is and my need for it it loses its

51:27
hold on me and I'm able to lose weight and do and you know make different choices n if you'd like to sponsor

51:36
us I appreciate those thoughts it's like I'm not even close to that thought but

51:42
Justin brings it out it's I I I hear Mark talk and I hear ching

51:48
ching I appreciate that Justus like you say somebody needs to be thinking on the cha-ching part of this deal but yeah

51:55
it's just fasc to me and it and it's just that process of

52:01
choosing not only and it's it's not about and here again it comes back to you it's not necessarily about positive

52:08
thinking it's about the mind of Christ and this is a choice that we have and I

52:15
think it comes back to me when I have choices when I recognize that yes I was

52:22
born a certain way but that's still a choice choice to me today that also I'm

52:29
also mindful of the responsibility that goes along with that

52:35
MH because if I was if I'm if I'm thinking that I was just born that way

52:41
and therefore that's my excuse that's going to seem Mighty

52:47
frail at some point in my life and it's like okay I've lived my

52:53
entire life thinking I didn't have a choice and suddenly I'm going to become

53:01
aware that oh shucks all along I had a choice and therefore I'm now responsible

53:10
for the choice that I make and it and it and it's and it's convicting to me as an as a parent because I realize I'm

53:17
passing some of my stuff onto my kids yeah just through epigenetics that that

53:24
Gene process and yet I want to be making

53:29
choices today well once they left the holster you aren't going to change that epigenetic codes you're you're

53:38
not I'm not changing you now switched to nurture I'm not changing the gene pool

53:44
that was passed on okay but yet by relationship I can help redefine some of

53:52
the choices that they make based on what I'm modeling yes and that's that's part of

53:59
that responsibility conviction in a positive sense for me to be able to say

54:05
okay yep and it and it's just yeah I I I mean a lot of what you're talking or

54:12
what we talked about today I really do think does tie back to this conversation about nature versus nurture and I think

54:19
you know there there are camps that believe way more in nurture and way more in nature right sure I mean I think I

54:27
feel like everything we're talking about here is it is both sure you know and there is very much a nature aspect to

54:34
who we are the genetic code right sure and the problem is when we don't see

54:42
that MH um and it remains on that subconscious layer well it becomes deterministic right like I am nature I

54:49
am what I was handed down and I am you know I can't change that but as we've discussed no you absolutely absolutely

54:56
can there is no end to science to show that there is the ability to transform

55:04
that nature right those that genetic code that says you should be X people can change that righted and that can

55:11
come through nurture right like parenting as you're describing to say oh oh crap I handed down uh AIT a quick

55:18
temper sure right alcoholism right alcoholism right what can I do now in

55:24
the nature side of things to to to excuse me nurture side of things to start nurturing okay listen you're going

55:31
to have a tendency towards a quick temper but here's how we deal with that or here's how we you know here are the

55:36
steps to address that and slowly they they can adopt some of the changes

55:41
you've taken your whole life to learn sure and start learning from you know as a parent handing down in this nurturing

55:48
system right yeah teach them to how to address that thing and if you if they do that over the course of their lifetime

55:54
by the time they get to their kids it's a different Beast right yes even the genetic code likely that they're passing

56:01
down exact transformed yes to a degree and you continue that through the

56:06
generations um I yeah it's pretty incredible which is why again going back to the Bible about to the second and

56:12
third generation there is a a point where that code has been um the iniquity

56:19
has been ended yeah and I'm trying to think of the the term when you add uh

56:24
diluted right sure so there's been enough mixture of other genetic code and nurturing and all these things that it

56:32
doesn't mean that the third generation is fine and good it means likely that specific bit that was so strong has been

56:40
diluted to this point to where I I don't know I just I think I apologize because

56:45
I'm gonna do you remember where that verse is the second and third the second

56:51
and third generation real quick because I want to say there's more to it right

56:56
because I want to say third and fourth generation but if once we're transformed

57:03
it can be passed on to the a longer period of time in other

57:09
words it it says you know cursing will be third and fourth generation but a

57:16
blessing can continue on and on and on if I'm recalling that correctly you able to find it it's okay

57:24
I'm still looking yeah because uh that's yes I'm coming back to that nurture and

57:29
nature part of it yes is is our ability to be able to say okay either I do have

57:36
a choice and I'm responsible for that choice or I'm a victim and therefore I

57:42
can't choose anything differently and I think that's that's part of that difference when we see it

57:48
that way he's getting close folks

57:54
man this is this this is another thing Justin I I have to admit I have as as

58:01
I've uh recognized choices I can admit that I have become less technology

58:10
averse uhuh I have I because I new neurop Pathways I I am creating new

58:17
neurop Pathways two tier neuroplasticity I yes well done I'm

58:23
trying uh yes the so this is Exodus

58:29
25 okay um the Lord is slow to anger and abounding in steadfast love for giving iniquity and transgression but he will

58:36
by no means clear the guilty visiting the iniquity of the fathers and the children to the third and the fourth

58:41
generation so third and fourth not second and third yeah but I I want to say there was a part that went even

58:48
further on um there's another visiting iniquity um yeah there's several verses

58:56
how about visiting the iniquity of the fathers and the children and the children's children to the fourth and

59:02
third and fourth generation uhhuh does there anything after that after that

59:09
verse third and fourth generation three so far there's four verses with that in it okay five verses I gotcha it's okay

59:18
well I think it's very interesting um because I want to say there was one

59:25
of them that almost made it you know if you challenge that that process if you

59:31
choose differently you know yes it will you know that that iniquity can last for

59:37
the third and fourth generation but blessing will continue on even further

59:44
is what yeah I would have to click through each of these yeah it's okay don't worry about it that was my bad I

59:50
should uh I think um it just kind of came to me in the middle of uh our our discussion whether it's tied to these

59:57
scriptures or not mhm we we know it's in certainly in the New Testament in terms

1:00:03
of uh Jesus allowing that right so essentially whatever was in the past yes

1:00:09
the minute we take on salvation can be erased now sure you know then it goes to

1:00:15
all the work of the the daily you know Living Sacrifice concept um but yeah

1:00:23
sure it's it's H it's very interesting and I

1:00:28
love any conversation or you know anytime that science like you said

1:00:34
catches up yes and you know none of this stuff is mind-blowing when you think about hey people can change you know

1:00:41
it's like okay we've known that for centuries I mean these scriptures were written how many centuries ago right and

1:00:49
and I think so much this is this is I I think the uh the the sermon you

1:00:56
mentioned you know it talked about um sacrifice

1:01:03
always um being paid off or being worth it you know that that there's there's a

1:01:10
sacrifice and the price is always worth as was it being paid now we can wrestle

1:01:16
with that okay because I'm you know I don't typically thinking absolutes but I will say that I think

1:01:26
much of what we you never think in absolutes I try not to think in

1:01:32
absolutes yes um that was it a joke and and I apologize if I did say never you

1:01:38
didn't I just wanted to trap you and you got out of that smooth you didn't you

1:01:44
didn't get trapped at all well I'm still and I'm still holding my train of thought but what the uh the interesting

1:01:50
part for me is when we think about sacrifice and the ability to you know it

1:01:58
comes at a sacrifice and you know the what was communicated it is always worth

1:02:04
the I can I wrestle with that as a human but I also um recognize where so much of

1:02:12
this information has come from about neuroplasticity and I think a lot of it

1:02:17
has to do with tbis and I recognize there are a lot of armed forces people you know who have

1:02:24
you know experienced you know improvised IEDs IDs yes for those of us

1:02:32
who don't know the acronyms um tbii oh traumatic brain injury sorry I apologize ID um um

1:02:42
explosive in improvised explosive device so basically I that's what I said correct

1:02:49
yeah believe that's um yes I'm sorry thank you for the clarification so I

1:02:55
believe our armed forces have made a tremendous sacrifice and I

1:03:03
would recognize that much of what we know now is

1:03:10
a a uh is has been paid at their expense and yet I believe that in itself

1:03:19
is demonstrating how God has made a way

1:03:25
even for people who have traumatic brain injury that they can learn to do things

1:03:30
again is it going to be hard work yes is it going to be you know difficult yes

1:03:37
but I think you know that's that's where the freedom comes in from my perspective and I and I and I just uh I just really

1:03:45
can't disconnect that um the armed services and the freedom that we have

1:03:50
and how um you know Christ basically offers each of us

1:03:56
freedom and I'm I'm mindful of the the cost that that was to him and it wasn't

1:04:03
so much that he benefited from it but we did and I think you know the the analogy

1:04:10
holds up you know the same way that as we learn more and more about our

1:04:15
abilities you know the mind being over the brain and my ability to say yes I

1:04:20
can even when my body is fighting me even when my brain has been injured

1:04:26
there's Grace in that to be able to find a new way and I just I just that brings

1:04:33
back the Pharisees you know there's and there was another quote it basically um

1:04:39
science is Advanced funeral by funeral so it's it's as we you know

1:04:46
recognize that that isn't Incorrect and we let it die you know science actually

1:04:51
catches up with design and I I like that quote in a sense because so often I have to I have

1:04:59
to die to self I have to let go of some of those things that have been passed on

1:05:04
to me by imperfect parents just like my children will have to let go of some of the things that I've passed on to them

1:05:10
because I was an imper imperfect parents and for me that's that's the the beauty of Grace along with neuroplasticity

1:05:19
MH so yeah that's where I'm at that's a pretty good way to see it Mark well well

1:05:26
that's how I see

1:05:31
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