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[Music] good morning Justin good morning Mark

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how are you I'm good yeah how are you I am very well thank you it's good to be

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here and just uh on a on a side note I guess I just want you to know I

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appreciate what you do for the podcast yeah and and just for what you bring I

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actually was uh doing some mudding last night and I was listening to a couple

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back podcasts oh yeah yeah it was uh I listened to worship cool

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and the other one is I'm drawing a blank after that was a good one yeah worship

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was a good one I meant the one you're drawing a blank about no no I was uh and that's what I was thinking about but it

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was just uh because there was a number of them I listened to and just kind of thinking about it and just wanted you to know that I appreciate you well I

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appreciate your appreciation this is appropriate since we just published gratitude

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the Gratitude [Music]

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yes welcome to how I see it with me Mark Pratt and Justin Sternberg this is a

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podcast that works to countercultural polarization through thoughtful

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[Music] conversations and uh yeah we're experimenting I added uh I guess what

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Spotify if you if you use Spotify to listen to your podcast you can put Q&A

1:34
questions sure out there for your audience so I experimented with that for the Gratitude one so even if you've

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listened to the Gratitude one I know it's been some weeks since that one's been out by the time this one will't be out but feel free to go back there and

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answer the q& A and that'd be kind of fun to yeah you we just ask about gratitude and stuff so Mark you already

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did your Q&A thank you hey no problem at all I'm grateful for you as well Mark well bringing your voice of reason to

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my whatever you call this voice I uh there was one thing one thing

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I did listen is how often I uh do say my key phrases I'm G to I'm going to work on that you know granted that was what

2:13
are they Mark what key phrases I I have I have a number that yes but yeah it's

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fair like I say like I say like I say I hear

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you I like the fact now especially with I hear you we described pretty early on

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what that means to you and I think it's and it feels like it fits in a lot of the times you use it cuz I pay attention

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now I'm like you're saying you hear me but you have some

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more thoughts about it you know I do do I think I don't know and signal but it's

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not as I was listening even last night it's not always that I don't agree with

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you either so like you say like I say that's not necessary a to say that I

3:03
when I I hear you say that phrase that I am in disagreement with you yeah and I'm

3:09
just hearing you so yeah it's uh it's it's a it's a little more complex than that yeah yeah that's fair so so what

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are we going to talk about today Mark ah this is going to be a tough one yeah yeah we're going to talk about parenting

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today oh no and uh whose idea was this I I think it was a a spouse of one of ours

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yeah but um not yours not mine so yeah that narrows all right Megan this one's

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for you and so many others yeah that's that's the reality of it and I think the

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part that makes it tough for me is um I recognize this is this is a a

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passionate topic for me I can I can remember early on in my journey you know

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and I may have shared before we were at a conference and you know it was kind of talk it was actually Bill hibl one of

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his uh his Retreats you know his uh leadership Retreats Leadership Summit and hope he didn't take all the

4:14
lessons from I did not I did not but you know like like many people they there's

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a lot of nuggets that they offer unfortunately they always yes they don't always follow their own yeah leading so

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you know but despite what has happened you know to bill and his family that

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kind of thing um I can remember he was talking about Moses and His holy

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discontent what made him the things that made him angry and Bill invited us to

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you know recognize take time to acknowledge what was our holy

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discontent and I know for Chris and I it became the status of marriage and family

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you know in our community and where and that that really was the impetus for

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this journey that I've been on for past 15 years you know yeah going

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back getting schooling that kind of thing pursuing a degree and it a lot of it was really just a I guess it in some

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ways it exposed a passion that I didn't recognize you know part of my heart

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that I just hadn't noticed before yeah and so yeah this you know the topic of

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parenting is very near and dear to me and you know I'm I won't say always but

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routinely I'm willing to help you know anyone in that area who is struggling

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not that I have all the answers by any means but I believe you know

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parenting is so much about you know the supports we have and the people who are

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on the journey with us or come alongside of us in that process of you know

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raising our children and and just adjusting to life cycle stages as they

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come so yeah well it's interesting too is I mean you mentioned I'm willing to

6:22
help any who you know needed or whatever I think that's a big part about

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parenting that is potentially problematic is we're so unwilling to get

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help but I do think there's there's some culture to that there's basically it's

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like if you have to ask for help with parenting you're not a good parent but it's that's ridiculous right because

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like how many that's probably the most important thing I'm asked to do on this planet and

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I'm supposed to do it on my own I mean that seems a little ridiculous and mhm on top of it um there there the joke is

7:04
there are no manuals right sure but the fact is there are a lot of really good books there are a lot of good you know

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resources resources exactly sure and there is opportunity to be better oh

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sure if you are willing to look yeah yeah that that's good and you know the

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fact is parenting is a very polarizing topic for a lot of you know I shouldn't say say parenting itself is a polarizing

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topic the style of parenting is polarizing sure and I would even say you

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know and in our experience as parents our our parenting style in in a

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lot of times in our life have separated friendships but but what I mean by that is we were good close friends with a

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certain couple or certain family and then parenting Styles dictated that it wasn't going to work like because of the

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way their children interacted or ar children interacted and I know I'm not alone I think this is a thing that

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happens right where you just recognize yeah I don't know if this is working in

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a sense and um you know like es especially when it's like younger kids

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and it's your kid is beating up my kid or it's like it's it's kind of that

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blame game or vice versa it's um yikes I I'm not sure I want my kids acting that

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way and and seeing that as a model right so there's so many ways that can go but it's but it's a thing that happens it's

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it creates a polarizing aspect in our life where once we were on the same page

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with someone or you know family or whatever now we're on different polers right and sure um it can cause it's like

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flipping the magnet around and they start pushing away right it's very much like that um we've seen just a few times

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in our life and it's it's always it's hard you know cuz M yeah that can as

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you're saying that can be one of those facets that tend to Define which

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direction we go yeah there could be a lot of other likenesses but when it comes to our

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children our tendency is to say okay influence is important yeah and

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especially as you know a younger age how do we you know bring people around our

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children that model the behaviors that we desire to reinforce yeah and I think

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you know that can be difficult to address that because it can as you're saying it can be polarizing when I'm

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saying uh I'm not sure that we're going in the same direction with our parenting

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style and therefore you know there might be a a diversion uh you know a

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separation here yeah a detour and yeah I think that's I think that is a part of

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being a healthy parent is to be able to recognize that yeah this influence isn't

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positive not that I don't necessarily care about you as an individual and you know and there can be other ways that we

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can still maintain relationship but kind of once those once

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those lines are a little drawn are drawn it's it's tough to kind of do it the same way as as you once did and I you

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know I hear where you're coming from in that process and it has so much to do with priorities right like a friendship

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is a very high priority um however in our house is not

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a higher priority than how how my kids are raised right sure and so sometimes those like you said those lines are

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drawn due to the priorities and and sometimes they're not right sometimes

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the priority is the friendship and the kids pay a price or sometimes th this is

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this is one thing I wanted to share too is this is very much how I see it episode for me um I I got lots of

10:56
thoughts I'm happy to share about it but I recognize this is a very singular view from just me where I have seen more and

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more as both as my kids get older but also as I around other parents good and

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bad you know what I mean what's a good parent what's a bad parent but you know what I'm saying that there is a unique chemistry

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in Every Family unit sure so there is no one siiz fit fits all answer there are

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best practices there are good ideas there are principles and truths um like

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the Bible talks about you know what I mean you reap what you SE that's a principle and that's going to fall right in line inside of every aspect of your

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life including parenting including your children right sure um and so there are some principles and truths But

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ultimately whether you shelter your kid from a relationship

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because of that influence or you don't doesn't make you a good parent or bad parent because you may have reasons for

11:56
that exposure and you may have reasons for removing them from that that exposure and this we talked about this a

12:02
lot with education when we talked about education how uh it's so unique to each

12:08
family unit how you choose to educate your child how you know whether you put them in public school whether you homeschool whether you put them in

12:14
private school whether you pull them out for a minute you know whatever that looks like it's distinct to your family

12:21
in that particular child's needs and we go into all these things with this

12:27
certain idea of how it's going to be and we often have to course correct because sure this chemistry with this child

12:33
doesn't work the way my mind my mindset with my child was going to look and act like this but my child looks and acts

12:39
like this and now I have to course correct but what are your thoughts well I was thinking about it from from your

12:44
perspective I guess I'm I'm thinking about it from like a nuts and bolts practical aspect what what as you as you

12:52
mentioned priorities what would be some of the priorities that you and Megan

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have established in that decision-making process what is acceptable what isn't

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receptable what what kind of tenants would you say you would come back to to

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base those decisions upon yeah I think you're referring to

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like kind of Parental tenants right sure yeah I'm going to I'm going to go one step above that real quick go for it to

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just say that you know in terms of um life aspects you know um there are many

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you know there's there's Church there's God there's priorities yes yep there's family there's work there's

13:37
friends um maybe some others but those are some key components to life that you

13:43
prioritize MH and um for I grew up in an

13:48
atmosphere where church or maybe church and God were tied I hear

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you so just for our listener sake how I see it th those are distinct things

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church is not God and God is not church and church can be elevated above God in certain religions yep and and church is

14:08
extremely important don't hear me saying that I'm just saying it is not God so um

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I grew up in an atmosphere where church and God we kind of tied as number one and then below that was maybe work and

14:19
then you get to family somewhere down there as as they'll understand and we're supporting them through work and and God

14:26
is number one or what and um as I've got you know Megan and I have grown and

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gotten you know whatever we recognize the importance especially as we've seen families fall apart due to Mi mixed up

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you know priorities we've shifted family to be number two okay and we try and

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keep it there so in other words God is number one always so if he says X we're going to do X and it might not be when

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what we when we look at how this will benefit or hurt our kids we might go this might not be the best thing for our

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kids but because it's what God wants we're going to do it so that he's he's number one but we trying to keep family number two because that is your support

15:07
unit you know um and the raising these kids are the most important priority and

15:13
responsibility that I have how that's how I see it you know more more it's a

15:18
bigger responsibility than a flock of sheep I may be over you know if thinking of like a pastor or you know I was over

15:25
celebrate recovery for a while so that was a pretty high priority in my life but recognizing that my family had to

15:31
come first now it didn't always and it would slip spots often but that was always my goal is to keep it at number

15:37
two sorry that was a long thing but basically saying family is so important

15:43
to us um and that doesn't mean we do it perfect it just means we is a high

15:49
priority and um and then in terms of like parenting tenants and and

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priorities um I think

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I think our kids being obedient is a pretty high priority in

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terms of tenants in our life and that doesn't mean

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um yeah it doesn't mean we you know give them the switch if they don't do something right or whatever it doesn't

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mean they don't have um a soul right like we discipline it out of them right

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like um it just means when push comes to shove and it's it's time to obey you

16:34
obey and there's we're not going to argue about it no of course it's not

16:39
perfect and there is arguing whatever but I'm just saying like that to that's that was a pretty higher priority for me

16:45
early on from the outset so when our kids were babies and starting to become

16:51
toddlers um for me accountability was has always been very high on the list of

16:58
priorities so once I could see a kid could disobey and give you that look that says he he I said okay I know you

17:04
know that's wrong therefore I can hold you to that sure you know where I I don't I don't see that a lot actually in

17:11
almost any parents and that's okay again this is very much how I see it but I'm like okay now I know you know so the

17:17
next time I'll be very clear with them bad good bad good you know and then if

17:22
they do it again say well you did the bad thing and you know it's bad you know and they would get their consequence whatever that was but um so discipline I

17:30
think was a is probably a big thing um and so when it comes to like influence

17:36
with other kids like when they were younger if the kids were super undisciplined and like just disobey you

17:43
know what I mean MH it would be hard for me to be with that family unit because

17:49
it was like I don't want my kids a to do this but also B I would tell my kids to

17:55
stop and they would but that wouldn't happen on the the other side and so then it was like kind of they're being abused

18:03
through obedience does that make sense cuz they can no longer hit that person with the stick right no I hear does that

18:09
make sense yeah um so that's that's one I would say discipline SL obedience sure

18:15
um I don't know I think um another one that Megan has really

18:22
worked on me about because my tendency we were started chatting about this a

18:27
little bit early on but it's criticism um no I'm not saying that's a a value

18:32
I'm saying that's a struggle so crit criticism in of my kids and um I got to

18:38
say I come by it honestly sure um and so I I when you say I come by it honestly what do you mean

18:44
by I received plenty of criticism just like that was good but this is better and you know that kind of thing was that

18:51
was a compliment right so but and then yeah just a lot of like kind of

18:57
nitpicking stuff and I I do it and then I get why it was done it's like I you

19:03
could be this much better if you just did this little thing you know and um not really knowing where the tow the

19:10
line on that you know sure um so Megan has worked with me just for 15 years

19:15
right cuz M's 15 so her she's very much not like that well I mean she's she's

19:23
human or whatever but um that's not her like struggle right is critiquing the

19:28
children so she's always saying like you got to you know tell them they're doing good you got to you know maybe you don't

19:35
need to say that you know sure so I would say due to her balance I'm a lot

19:40
better parent than I would be yeah certainly not even close to where I

19:46
would want to be I look at a version of myself you know we talk about integrity and you have this version of yourself up

19:53
in your head like I'm not where I want to be in terms of that and I it's still

19:59
very compulsory for me sometimes to critique um and but what I'll try and do

20:05
is come back around besides that thing this was

20:10
amazing or whatever and you know not the compliment sandwich cuz I think that's garbage I think that's just a dumb way

20:16
to deliver bad news I got you but actual real positives to balance the negatives

20:23
say and and I think there's how many would you need to do that would you say positives to more yeah I don't

20:30
know I can I yeah I I am not willing to judge how good or bad I am with that but

20:36
I would say it's not where I want it to be yeah that makes sense and just and and the reason I asked I just put that

20:41
out there there yeah no that's good there are there are statistics that basically show that it is 10 to

20:48
one so in our relationships we need at least 10 positive interactions to offset

20:55
each negative interaction in order to be heard and I like that

21:01
version because an interaction doesn't necessarily mean compliments sure now so

21:09
a hug you know a random hug to one of my kids in the middle of the day to say how are you doing is a positive interaction

21:16
that so that's encouraging to me well that is what we desire to do on

21:23
our podcast is encourage yes parenting but I want to recognize even in you know

21:29
some some statistics are as as low as five and high as 15 to one yeah so I'm

21:35
nowhere near those and that and that's what I would you know dare say most of us as parents you know and granted

21:42
that's that's with most of our relationship Dynamics as well you know between our husband and between a

21:48
husband and wife and and I think for um I like the way you set up the hierarchy

21:53
if you will um you know God family and I would

21:59
still separate out family and put marriage you know who Chris and I are as

22:06
number one because I believe you know kids or you know parenting revolves

22:11
around healthy marital relationship because which is a polarized Viewpoint

22:17
sure it is and I would be happy to discuss that with anyone who desired to

22:23
you know talk about that that's almost worth its own episode but please share a little bit about that I do I do think

22:30
you know so often and I see this you know within family system so often is

22:37
you know as as the tenant as the as the phrase goes family first you know that

22:45
can so often be Children First yeah and I and I think you and I can recognize

22:52
and I'm having listened to some of those uh back podcasts I got to watch how uh

22:57
dogmatic I can be uh but still no they can see our Soap

23:02
Box yeah that that's true I guess that's what I was we but that being said I'm still going to have uh I'm still G to

23:08
have my uh opinions um I think we've seen or I should say I've seen a change

23:18
from when I was a kid to what a what a kid is today you know when I grew up you

23:23
know the kids had the little table you know the you had the adult table and the kid table

23:29
which was fine cuz I got a chance to interact with my cousins and you know and my grandparents you know if they

23:37
weren't servant or whatever kind of got to go adults got to go through the line first yeah you know that kind of thing

23:43
and and I I'll say kids did the dishes we did I that's okay too I can't

23:49
say as if I did a lot of dishes I'll be honest well my aunt she was a stickler for us doing the dishes okay cool and

23:55
you learned responsibility from that good yeah yeah and I and I would think and I as I've seen I'm not complaining

24:02
by the way I'm yeah I'm missed that and or should say Miss well and I think

24:07
there was a part of that that communicated

24:14
healthy leadership hierarchy if you will and you know and I realize that word can

24:19
be you know changed with some poiz yeah that can be polarizing you know especially when we you

24:26
know yeah the whole patriarch type Dynamic that we wrestle with as a

24:31
culture but at the same time that's just a shift that I've seen and when I see

24:38
that um it it challenges me to be able to say okay I believe healthy kids

24:48
healthy parenting revolves around healthy marital relationship and if kids are number one

24:56
and marriage is number two you know then that's when we start heading into

25:01
difficult Dynamics because these because let's be honest it's easy to have a

25:09
confrontation with your spouse and come to a roadblock and not be able to find

25:17
resolution and kind of bounce off and go to one of your kids because if you have

25:24
more than one kid likely one of them is like you you so it's easy to go to that

25:31
child and say yeah yeah you get me you

25:36
understand but your mom or your dad doesn't you follow me and at that point

25:42
that child has just been placed strategically as a wedge between

25:48
the two parent roles and that that I I definitely struggle with I wrestle with

25:54
I you know because I don't believe that's beneficial I like the as ECT that you know being and you know I'm thinking

26:01
of other as you mentioned our pasts I'm thinking of other traditional well I'll call

26:08
them scripturally I think they're called iniquities those things where that I

26:13
bring into my parenting role that I may have learned from my no offense I am too

26:20
an imperfect parent you know there because there is no perfect parent from my perspective so therefore the things

26:27
some of the things that I learn about parenting I learn from imperfect parents

26:34
and so therefore I parent that way as well yeah and I think you know that is a

26:40
dynamic where you know if kids are definitely the priority I believe that

26:47
leads towards that empty nest divorce type situation because the thing that

26:53
United us is no longer there uniting us and that's why I think together all

26:58
soccer games you know you do yeah you do all the things for the kids and then for the kids goes away and yes for what and

27:06
then who are you yeah yeah and you know and granted we have this experience together of raising kids but along that

27:14
process we went from knowing one another to knowing our kids and somehow you are

27:21
completely different person now you know 20 years later yeah and so for me that

27:28
that's kind of where Chris and I have been able to recognize okay we need to

27:34
be two heads of the same monster where our kids are concerned you know to where there um we're going to do the hard work

27:43
at times of saying okay yes there is an Emanual but what do we believe is best

27:51
for our children yeah and how do we believe that in such a way that says yes

27:57
this is what we're going to do this is what I'm going to do even if it's uncomfortable this is what Chris is

28:03
going to do even if it's foreign to her in such a way that we believe that this

28:09
is what God is calling us to do as parents yeah and that's right there a

28:15
huge roadblock right from the get-go for a lot of parents especially when we're talking about there's a lot how many

28:22
family units out there that are mixed right like um you know through divorce remarriage or whatever um what do we

28:29
call it Blended excuse me Blended families um or single parents or whatever single parents that's a

28:35
separate issue that we also need to address because you don't have that partner to whatever and now your kid is

28:41
your number one priority you know but um but yeah in terms of blended family that

28:46
right what you just described is almost a non-starter from the beginning and so help me understand that a non-starter

28:53
from the beginning I certainly don't mean it's a non-starter I think it feels that way where there's so much baggage

29:00
to your parenting style that you bring into this Blended marriage that to reconcile with all the baggage of that

29:06
your spouse's parenting style feels daunting and or nearly impossible so you kind of tend to parent separately and

29:14
then deal with the consequences through little tips right and

29:19
um just so you know I'm saying I agree with you that the number one most

29:25
important thing you can do in a blended family and and the non-blended family is get together separately from your kids

29:31
figure out what it is you agree about and also figure out the things that you disagree about M and work to figure out

29:39
a middle ground there whatever that is so that you're on the same page cuz you that's that's the wedge comes into

29:46
play so quickly when I'm going to parent the way I think they need to be parented and then your spouse says yeah and I'm

29:52
going to parent the way I think they need to be parented and it's just Whiplash for your kids right and they know if they want

29:58
X to go to Dad if they want why they go to Mom you know that's a obviously very common thing um yeah but yeah so I I'm

30:05
totally with you I'm just saying it is I think in some cases feels

30:10
impossible and I don't think that's true I think doesn't matter how impossible it is that it should be your number one

30:16
mandate if you want your kids to have the healthy parenting that they need

30:21
sure um I I equate it very similar to like our solar system in other words the

30:28
Earth rotates around the Sun oh yeah not vice versa yeah I mean gr granted for

30:34
years you know yeah we thought there there was there was the understanding

30:39
that it could be the other way around we know that's not the case yeah and from my perspective you know healthy kids

30:46
Healthy Families revolve around healthy relation marital relationship that kind

30:52
of thing because I don't think healthy kids make healthy relationship I think health the marriage relationship makes

30:59
healthy kids yeah because we know that kids need that consistency that boundary

31:05
regard and I and I will say you know the stability the stability yeah

31:10
that's exactly where I was going from because you know as I work with families and you know and individuals and even

31:17
single families you know and I think that's another Dynamic um single family

31:23
single parent families it's just a little harder not some times much harder

31:29
to create that stability you know but I do believe those individuals who can

31:36
kind of okay Corral the wagons to a certain degree and create this stability

31:42
you know their kids are far better off you know than than the instability that

31:48
we can see maybe even in some you know marital relationships so I like this

31:53
word stability yeah uh I like this word stability when it comes to tenant right we time ask me

32:01
because I mean I think what you're saying and I think I'm just like really

32:06
hearing it and agreeing and just saying wow yeah that stability should be a very high priority higher than the style of

32:15
parenting sure um because we spend so much time Fring about the parenting

32:21
style and then go off separately you know and parent the way we think they need to be parent when really the more

32:27
important value would be stability in the sense that they see that you're of one mind and all that um and even like

32:34
you said as a single parent that you don't one day say you can have all the treats because I feel very guilty about

32:40
how life is I'm the life that I'm giving you and the next day you're angry that

32:45
they don't do what you want or they're hyper right they're not listening to you right they're not listening Etc so then you crack down and so there's that um

32:53
roller coaster of emotions that happen again this is an extremely difficult thing to do especially as a single

33:00
parent but it's is I would say if you can think about stability being one of the highest priorities in terms of what

33:06
you can offer your child because they're going to come in they're they're going

33:11
to leave eventually and they need that stability uh as a place to nurt you know

33:17
as a nurturing Place stability is a grow yes so that's where growth can occur it's kind of that incubation period and

33:24
incubation is stunted if there's not that stability cuz constantly readjusting and and starting over uh you

33:30
think about like a cocoon for a moth you know if you were to like shake it every 2 minutes like just really hard I'm

33:37
guessing that thing's going to either not make it out alive or maybe be stunted right in its growth and I think

33:43
it's very similar to that when we're when we lack stability and stability doesn't necessarily mean you never move

33:50
houses or you don't move States sure you know there's a lot of good Coast Guard parents I've met over the years we in a

33:56
coast guard area right where their kids have a very stable environment but not

34:01
physically they're moving every two years but it's that emotional stability

34:07
um yeah I want hand it back to you no and that's fine and I think that becomes

34:12
a part of the you know the the single family single parent family and I would

34:20
and I agree in the context of the blended family where you're sharing you know the the difficulties and I I feel

34:27
for Blended families and what I recognize is it you know in a typical

34:34
family you know typical two parent family you know it's relationship than

34:40
children so when I come into a blended family I already have children yeah and

34:46
in that case I've there's likely been a period where alliances are built you

34:54
know to where that child has become a support for me as a parent and and vice

35:02
versa so become stability to the parent because the parents yeah sometimes even

35:07
unhealthy propping if you will to where I use that child for my emotional

35:14
support I mean I would argue that it's not devastatingly uh unhealthy but I would

35:20
argue it's always unhealthy when your kid becomes the only source of stability you know what I mean like that's why I

35:25
used the word propping yeah if I am putting my weight on my child to keep me

35:32
up that is unhealthy I need to have other people other adults around me that

35:39
are are part of that emot emotional support system for me that's good and

35:44
that's where and and I think that's when we talked about it originally you know and having you know um wedges between

35:52
parents I think that's the difficulty I'm already bringing more wedges in into

35:58
my you know blended family then I might want to recognize at times and I think

36:05
that's when you know being able to have the difficult conversations doing the work yes of being able to say Okay can

36:13
this is and and being able to recognize here again I'll using some other materials but um personal vows you know

36:21
I Believe come into that Dynamic that aspect where I have gone through a hurt

36:26
or I have experienced hurt and in that moment I have made a vow to

36:33
myself that says I will never do that again no one will ever hurt me like that

36:39
again I will never be poor I will never you know and we make that and I believe

36:45
scripturally speaking that's why God says you know don't make promises yeah

36:51
you know because you know let your yes be yes and your no be no because those

36:56
promises we make I believe they do tend to isolate God from that area in other words when we

37:03
make that personal vow it becomes a high priority my kids will never wear Walmart shoes yes like

37:10
that's another common one to yes to wear it's a it's a personal vow because I've

37:16
experienced some hurt or someone close to me has and therefore it it's it makes

37:22
that area off limits and in that area I tend to be a little bit

37:29
reactive yeah when that area is discussed and um and yeah flash point

37:35
kind of thing exactly and I think you know we have to be able to have healthy

37:40
influences that help us recognize that or else there again we're just passing

37:46
that on to our children and then our children have well now it's a pendulum swinging right well there's a topic now

37:53
that is no longer able to be discussed and my child doesn't know why why why can't we I'm not saying there

37:59
can't be a pendulum yes I'm agreement talking about two different things but yeah exactly to where and I I would call

38:06
that the transgenerational dynamic the things that I pass down to my children you know that's part of my imperfect

38:13
parenting and yes once I experience that hurt I do tend to swing the pendulum in

38:20
the other area when I grow up my kids aren't going to have to yeah because I

38:25
did I had to do so now my parent my kids won't have to

38:31
well yes your parents may have been a little more authoritarian but raising your kids in a l fair type D Dynamic

38:39
that has no you know boundaries or expectations you know isn't necessarily beneficial for them either and I like

38:46
that word you used that area of growth you know and because I believe

38:52
that stability offers not only our children the opportunity for grow growth

38:58
but it demonstrates the ability that they have to create stability for themselves going

39:06
forward you know as they go off to school as they go off to college as they

39:11
develop their own relationships that ability to create

39:17
stability or you know those routines and structures that they know are healthy for them and granted some people are

39:25
going to think routines and structures are po iing as well right yep but I'm just saying kids definitely need

39:33
stability in order to develop well yeah from my perspective

39:39
yeah they need a nest exactly that's protected from the wind well it's interesting grow their wings and

39:44
research has shown that you know uh they did a study on daycares and they recognized that um

39:53
daycares that had a fenced structure around the outside of them allowed

39:59
children to go further from the building

40:04
if you will to explore and play because they knew where the boundary was and they could go to it children who went to

40:12
a daycare through where there was that there was no structure around they tended to stay closer because they

40:18
didn't necessarily want to cross the boundary but they didn't know where it was so when you think about that within

40:25
a family systems type Dynamic we need to be able to be creating those consistent

40:32
boundaries to where our kids know and I think that's helpful from as you were

40:37
saying from a very young age MH because what happens so often is if that

40:43
boundary isn't in place we can always we can typically end up coming into

40:49
adolescence where it's a healthy Dynamic Healthy Growth healthy individuality for

40:56
our children to start learning what is healthy individuality right and now if

41:02
there hasn't been a boundary that's been kind of established over time you know

41:07
that becomes very difficult yeah they might start heading off West you know and or east you know just pick a

41:14
direction and there's no boundary there so they just keep going you yeah yeah that's good and it becomes difficult and

41:20
so often you know especially around that you know it can even become legal as

41:25
from my experience you know from 16 17 18 because a parent no longer has legal

41:33
authority over you know children that age there's always

41:38
opportunity for course correction and parenting U but there there certainly a

41:44
a Rubicon right uh that River where once you cross it you can't go back you know I me Goa and so I think it isn't

41:51
important as your children are young to set those boundaries and set those expectations because like you you said

41:57
at some point 16 17 18 um legally you might cross that rub Rubicon in the

42:03
sense that they you don't have any legal right necessarily to make them yeah

42:08
legal Authority although you hopefully still Authority but um uh or you know

42:13
depending on how they grew up they 16 they could just say I don't consider you my authority and it doesn't M and that's

42:20
and I think that's a good point and it was kind of where I was what I wanted to come back around to I think you can do a

42:28
fabulous job parenting and having boundaries and still have kids who go

42:34
off and test that boundary and that is not a reflection upon you at that point yeah and I that's another yeah sorry I

42:41
didn't me interrupt we should definitely talk about this yeah is what I I think

42:46
you're right I think and I and I think there can be a tremendous amount of

42:52
guilt that goes along with that that says well and and unfortunately I would

42:58
say probably other parents even play well you should have done this you should have done that it's like no there

43:03
are going to be some kids who are just strong willed in that mindset and you

43:08
know their tendency is to have to learn by their own personal experience and

43:14
that's not necessarily justifying that from three years old right you know that's that's

43:21
oh that's that child you know I don't think we can abdicate that and say no well well he's just strong willed and

43:29
he's going to do what he wants to do at 3 years old you know because I I I don't necessarily but I I will say yeah there

43:36
are aspects where personality you know comes into play and you know and I

43:43
recognize there are some kids who have to touch the stove for themselves MH

43:49
because they you know and and I'm not saying that uh there's actually anything wrong with that because I believe they

43:56
can be strong leaders and you know and challenge you know the status quo the

44:02
status quo in ways that can create Health yeah but at the same time I also

44:09
recognize there's also equal opportunity to go in a direction that you know

44:14
creates habits and hurts and Hang-Ups and all that stuff that can kind of lead to unhealthy you know choices

44:23
and yeah the struggle as a parent um when your kid goes off the wrong

44:30
direction is I mean the guilt the guilt is the number one I think struggle and

44:35
guilt uh well let's say shame right that's my distinction right so shame

44:40
basically says you did it wrong you're still doing it wrong you got to fix this

44:46
and so due to that that's where a lot of enabling comes in that's where a lot of codependence comes in kids with

44:51
addiction stuff like that where the parents you know basically are dealing with shame

44:57
and through their shame are acting um and unfortunately shame is never is

45:03
almost never productive um it tends to cause us to swing the pendulum too far in in many directions and

45:11
um yeah and so that's a very difficult thing and that that that kind of gets outside of the normal parenting I mean

45:17
once addiction's in the picture that that's a whole different realm of conversation but I think there is an

45:23
important part as a parent to be supportive but not enabling you know and that's true with addiction or not that's

45:29
true with you know an independent personality to be able to support them but also not enable them to like like

45:37
you said when they go off in that independent streak and do some try some things that are wrong to not feel guilty

45:44
you know or shame or whatever but instead say look this is wrong and it's going to hurt you and I don't support this um but when you're willing to come

45:51
back inside the gate you know I will be here and I love you you know what I mean versus um um I don't know chasing them

45:58
down which sometimes I think feels counterintuitive right like as a parent you think that I have to protect them

46:04
from all harm well there's a certain point there's that age of accountability there's that transition

46:10
where where it switches and now you chasing them down is problematic where

46:16
before you not chasing them down was problematic and how do you teach a parent where that line is I don't know

46:23
and I think it's a difficult line at times and I think think you know part of that and I think I think part of the

46:30
teaching is the ability to recognize what is better for them which versus

46:35
what feels better to me yeah and I and that's not to say that I don't feel for

46:43
people in that circumstance but I think so often the chasing down feels better

46:48
for me because I'm able to sleep at night knowing they're safe in my house

46:54
whereas if they're outside someplace else experiencing some of the

46:59
consequences I may get a difficult phone call MH and I can respect the fact that

47:05
that doesn't allow me to sleep at night but I think there is a line there and

47:10
and granted you know I think as if I'm kind of want to bring it back to the

47:15
nuts and bolts if you will of what is healthy parenting I think there are also

47:21
tremendous advantages to having other like-minded people around around myself

47:28
or Chris and I and our kids because there will be a day when there will come an era a cycle if

47:36
you will where my your children my children are less likely to listen to me

47:43
you know that's that's reality yes that's part of healthy development and yet if as a parent I've brought other

47:52
people into their lives likely my children will have other like-minded

47:58
people that they can talk to you know around us you know even even if it's you

48:05
know say you know I'm a parent in my 40s and I have a a child you know in their

48:11
20s or teens you know I have brought other relationships with

48:18
other 30y olds other 20 year olds that are able to talk to my child or my

48:25
child's able to talk with them in such a way that says well it's says the exact same thing

48:33
that I might say but because it comes from a different Source my child is able

48:40
to hear it and you know that's that's a reality with so many parents especially

48:45
as you know kids come into that early adolescence and they're developing that

48:51
you know we need I think part of healthy parenting is having other like-minded

48:56
supports in that process which is worth thinking about if you're the kind of family that's kind of like us against

49:04
the world right like yes ourway or the highway um everyone else there out there

49:09
is idiots you know that if if if you kind of have that mentality uh where you kind of got all the doors barred and um

49:16
you know you know we're prepared for the apocalypse it's it's our family against the world well don't be surprised if

49:24
your child ends up in their own bunker you know against the world and you're

49:30
part of it yeah exactly s same thing yeah because I think that's but whereas if your your world is open and you you

49:37
have a circle sure um that doesn't mean the whole world I mean that doesn't mean you know obviously there's a balance

49:44
there and I think that comes back to healthy relationship yeah because we're modeling how to interact it it starts

49:52
basically like you were saying at the beginning kind of okay find in people

49:58
who share similar values who we can do life with you know and I think that

50:03
demonstrates healthy relationship to our children and if we're just kind of

50:09
preparing for the Apocalypse in our own bunker our kids basically our kids just learn how to create bunkers yeah and not

50:17
relationship yeah it's good and so that's and you know so that becomes a part of it as well and I and I think

50:24
part of as as I'm thinking about in the context of the time and um I want to

50:29
recognize that um each life cycle I use the word life

50:35
cycle stage um I'm going to simplify that um as our children grow older

50:43
preschool you know grade school you know into you know you early adolescence

50:50
adolesence that kind of thing I want to recognize we're going to have to learn we're going to have to adjust yeah

50:57
our parenting styles with each because if I'm still trying to parent my

51:02
18-year-old the way I did when they were two that's not going to work and if my

51:08
parents you know didn't learn to adjust you know that's going to be very

51:14
difficult and you know for me personally it kind of comes a a word that I hear

51:20
used a lot in family systems is respect and so often our tendency can be as

51:28
parents to think my child owes me respect because I'm over 24 years old

51:36
and somehow me come me becoming an adult a child needs to respect me and I don't

51:44
think that's a given I think respect is something that is earned that is

51:49
developed over time as a parent or

51:55
parents are structured in routine and there's a consistent

52:01
boundary because that boundary establishes okay yeah there's a

52:06
reason and those reasons over time tend to make sense

52:12
they may not always make sense and we got and as parents we got to recognize this they may not always make sense at

52:17
13 15 18 but yet if we kind of hold to that

52:23
like you were saying not chasing not not throwing away the boundary because our

52:28
our child is momentarily off the rails shall we say that's not to say that they

52:34
aren't going to get to a point where they're going to come back and say okay I understand this better now yeah and it

52:41
and it was and it was interesting for me because I I'll I'll make this really short um I I just did an amend like last

52:49
week for an attitude I had when I was 20 and you know in that process

52:57
I was able to fully recognize that what I did made sense based on being 20 years

53:04
old but I also had but now I was looking back and I was saying okay that that

53:11
they made the right choice and my reaction to them was wrong MH and I think you know our 20year old 24 35 60

53:20
year-old children still have that ability yeah that I do yeah to be able

53:26
to say okay understanding my parents where they were coming from extending Grace to them

53:34
that they were doing the best they could at that moment that makes sense that's

53:40
good that's that's one of the common things that I share with some people

53:47
that I occasionally Mentor in terms of parenting is don't parent for your 12y old or your 18 parent for that

53:53
six-year-old coming back saying you know what Dad you were right MH you know because if you can think about the long

53:59
term yes the long game then the decisions you make right now should be

54:05
based on that I mean that's the beginning with the end in mind but sure um and I think and and while we're

54:11
saying that I also I believe it's also equally important as a parent to be able

54:18
to acknowledge to my children when I mess up mhm because I think that's

54:23
another healthy Dynamic to where if if I if I get angry if I slam the door and

54:31
I'm and I'm exhibit I'm modeling those behaviors that I say are inappropriate

54:38
then I have to come back and I have to apologize for that I can't just say this aspect of do as I say not as I do and it

54:47
you know modeling is so important and so therefore even being able to model the

54:53
fact that I just messed up and now it's it's it's important for me to apologize

55:00
for that whether it's apologizing to your mom whether it's apologizing to you

55:05
you know or other people outside of our family you know I'm demonstrating what

55:10
healthy relationships looks like because that's one of the most important things we should desire our kids to know how to

55:18
do is course correct sure is to apologize is to say Oops I did a bad

55:23
thing I want to make it right sure if we don't model that for them they're they're not going to have the tools you know yeah um if you yeah I'd love to

55:32
wrap up if you don't mind with with some encouragement to say that uh parenting

55:37
is hard but the but the bar to being a good parent is not that high what it

55:43
requires is a love for that child that's willing to do what the most loving thing is sure you know and so sometimes that

55:51
like you said sometimes we do things out of our own desire to appease our own shame and guilt right when that's not

55:59
the best thing for the child and if you can process that through what is the best thing for the child because I care

56:04
about this child so much as parents do then you can make good decisions and be

56:10
a good parent and that doesn't mean perfect because there's no such thing so the I really think the bar to being a

56:16
good parent is pretty low mhm there's such there's such a phrase out there as a good enough parent yeah that's good

56:23
and I think you know Perfection is not on the table right so being able to

56:28
recognize that yes I'm not necessarily settling when I say good enough but yet

56:35
I'm creating consistent structures and I'm being you know able to create

56:42
boundaries and establish you know acceptable behaviors and that in itself

56:48
is being a good enough parent yeah and I and for me personally I think it does come back to the fact as a Earthly

56:56
father I'm going to be imperfect but every child has a heavenly father from

57:01
my perspective who offers unconditional acceptance who offers security who

57:08
offers purpose who offers identity who created that yeah who created that child

57:15
that we may not always understand but yet we can still trust and I think for

57:22
me that's a tremendous because it helps me establish what I desire to be by modeling what I

57:30
hear or what I see in our heavenly father at times and knowing that we don't have to be that that's correct yes

57:39
it's good that would be my encouragement I hope you're encourag that's how we see it that's how we see

57:45
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