0:04
put this in my pocket you put that in your pocket put that in your pipe and smoke

0:09
it this morning that's what we that should be our ending tagline yeah put that in your

0:16
pipe and smoke it that's how I see it put that in your pipe and smoke

0:22
it no that's I I like how I see it we'll Workshop it there you go yeah uh I am

0:30
recording not oh you are oh yeah oh yeah good well fair enough I wanted to get all that good stuff behind the it's you

0:36
know it's always the good stuff that comes first my glasses aren't going to distract you are they no I should get a

0:42
picture cuz this is this is like real wisdom here oh yeah you think I think

0:47
this is just I just like the uh the look of the podcast stuff your Bible and

0:53
you're saying beard and sungl or glasses or glass eyes as glass eyes that's right

1:00
that's right it's a good look I'll try and post that yeah we'll do what we can is that all right if I post that on my

1:06
socials that's how I get purpose you know I understand

1:13
[Music] posting welcome to how I see it with me

1:19
Mark Pratt and Justin Sternberg this is a podcast that works to countercultural

1:26
polarization through thoughtful conversations [Music]

1:33
what's the deal I I saw somebody was probably on the far end on Facebook they can own your pages own your pictures now

1:40
or something like that M anything they put on can technically be used against you in a court of law

1:46
or wait wait have you did you see that on Facebook or something yeah there's this thing that goes around like every

1:54
two years or something where it's like I have to post this on my wall and that's

1:59
what tells Facebook they can't legally use my stuff so I'm posting this and if

2:05
you don't want them to use your stuff then you know like copy paste yeah yeah yeah um first of all that does nothing

2:13
nothing there's no legal you're not doing anything legal there um and when

2:19
you signed up for a Facebook account and you scroll past the terms of conditions for you know several Pages once you push

2:26
that one agree at the bottom right that's right you basically said you can use my images for whatever you want I

2:33
gotta yeah um so well that's cool yeah yeah that's pretty much every web

2:39
service I got like there's a reason there's a mile long terms and conditions

2:45
it's so that basically number one opens up the door

2:50
so they can do some stuff in the future that they might consider um so they don't have to like have all their you

2:56
know road map planned right now they can kind of keep some doors open and number two covers them legally so you can't sue

3:03
them because you know in one of their promotional Billboards or something it's like hey that's my picture you know that

3:08
kind of I got you yeah makes perfect sense I mean it's a public entity it is yeah yeah it's free for a reason and

3:15
yeah exactly just like our podcast it's free for a reason you get what you pay

3:20
for that's right and we're going to use all of your data no we don't have your data so no so we can't use your data but

3:29
if you want to send us some data we might use it in our promotional [Laughter]

3:35
materials goodu so morning Justin good morning how are you I'm good uh come on

3:42
now how are you disappointingly cold are you well I'm not but it is outside so if

3:48
you're not disappointing the cold how are you

3:55
hashtag come on Justin I'm trying to help you this is a Justin ism andwhere

4:03
I this is this justinm is failing to adopt you know well you know it came on was it came out so Dy justinm there you

4:10
go I have to yeah I'm Dandy Mark I'm glad to hear it I appreciate you

4:15
encouraging my Justin isms exactly I'm Dandy how are

4:22
you I am very well thank you I appreciate you asking are you Dandy then it's it's I am I'm not dandy techically

4:29
use that's not a word I typically use but I am very well and it's a pleasure to be here with you yeah same to you

4:35
same to you yes a little brisk this morning but you know we're I'm thankful for this little warm office to slide

4:42
into and yeah yeah yeah what are we talking about do you know I do I do um

4:50
it's good I well like you say I think many ideas pop around our eye our heads in the process of a week but I was

4:56
definitely uh thinking about purpose this week mhm and I think part of it um we're

5:02
starting Mary John The Rock Jimmy Evans you know he he has those four criteria you know that uh basically he believes I

5:10
I agree with him but you know every every for The Listener yeah I'm getting there Jimmy Evans and explaining who

5:18
what yeah well the marriage on the rock yeah the four principles marriage on the Rock is basically what we're starting it

5:24
yeah like we are on this podcast not on this podcast but Chris and I on Sundays

5:29
at Church get your butts to Generation Church at Sunday morning no our signups

5:34
are full our signups are full no but yeah yeah it's not open to all

5:42
people no Panic there why wasn't any Panic there there was just a uh

5:47
assertive moment but I'm sorry that's all good the

5:52
premise is that there's four things that only God can provide and that's you know

5:57
acceptance unconditional acceptance identity you know that he knows who we

6:03
are created us for a reason um security you know to where if we're in the center

6:09
of God's will it doesn't matter where you are it's probably the safest place for you by far and then purpose and I

6:17
and I don't know I don't know why uh just that that whole aspect of purpose well I do know why cuz I there I quite

6:26
often find myself sitting in a fr front row to people's lives through sessions

6:34
recognizing and seeing this this thread you know of purpose that gets woven

6:42
through each person's life to a certain degree that you know what happened what

6:48
happened years ago is still connected to something that is connected with today

6:54
and you know and there's just this cycle but I think it also has a

7:00
tremendous purpose of these things that I'm learning and what that what that does in my life and I was and I and I

7:08
was taking that into consideration with you know what we see in our culture at

7:13
times I believe we see is is that [Music]

7:18
either that sense of per I guess that sense of purpose is a polarizing

7:25
topic to where you know either either life in itself doesn't have any purpose

7:31
and it's just a biological thing that exists in a moment of history and to

7:37
make it yes or you know my life does have a purpose and there's a reason for

7:44
every life and yeah so that distinction would be a higher purpose right because

7:50
a purpose above you as opposed to a purpose you generate sure is that fair yeah that's

7:56
fair and I think it's also a purpose that has

8:01
design or a purpose that has no meaning it's it's it's it's to the point of

8:08
meaningless yeah all I do is exist for a moment and I go back to the ground and

8:16
I'm part of a food chain basically a cycle of life that's purpose yeah yeah I

8:24
there's something to be said for you know if you think you're uh going to you know feeding plants and there's

8:29
something to be said for what my body does yeah but I think our lives are much more than that yeah and as and it it was

8:36
funny cuz as I was thinking about that it was uh that Ro Romans 12 out the message came to my mind as far as uh so

8:43
here's what I want you to do God helping you take your everyday ordinary life

8:49
your sleeping eating going to work and walking around life and place it before

8:55
God as an offering embracing what God does for you is is the best thing you

9:00
can do for him don't become so well adjusted in your culture that you fit into it without even thinking instead

9:10
fix your attention on God you will be changed from the inside out and it's and it's you know readily

9:17
re recognize what he wants from you and quickly respond to it unlike the culture

9:22
around you always dragging you down to its level of immaturity God brings the best out of you and develops well formed

9:30
maturity in you and I just what's that passage I know it's the message yeah it's Romans

9:36
12 Romans Romans 12 1-2 and I guess that's where I was

9:42
that's what really I guess just kind of spoke to me

9:47
as I as I watch people and I and I'm and I from a cultural standpoint I recognize

9:55
how you know depression in ad Essence is you know seemingly at an

10:02
all-time high MH you know you don't have to look at too many editorials you know

10:08
in a paper magazine or something you know but what you'll see you know an image of you know a

10:16
kid that's that's sitting in water I've seen the images over and over again you know in depression you know with you

10:24
know and and I think you know some of it comes down to the

10:31
I would even dare say at times hate that you know can be surrounding this you

10:37
know the gener this generation and I and I think for me um when I think about

10:46
that it's sad for me but I also think about it in the context of all those

10:54
lives every one of those lives was designed from my perspective with a tremend mendous amount of purpose and I

11:01
think from my perspective each one of those lives I think about our kids you

11:07
know I think about how they're designed what they're what they're um uh yeah the thing what they're gifted

11:15
at the things that they do well and I think about you know our kids in this

11:21
next Generation I think them very similar in a in a ways as we think about you know as we hear about Esther when we

11:28
think about the Old Testament as far as you know for such a time as this and I

11:34
think you know I I think it's easier at times for me to recognize the purpose

11:42
and those coming behind me more so than it is my own personal you know life I I

11:48
mean I recognize my life has purpose but for such a time as this when I look at

11:54
our cultural Dynamics I recognize how you know this Next Generation from my

12:01
perspective will be very much a turning point I think in some ways you know

12:06
culturally speaking not and and that's why I'm saying you know placing your life before God allowing him to you know

12:12
use your abilities use your talents because each and every person listening

12:18
from my perspective has a purpose and I think when we just kind

12:25
of ignore that you know it's easy to just kind of fall

12:30
into the day after day but I like that verse where it talks about you know just

12:36
take your going to work your everyday eating don't don't become complacent but take each day as a gift

12:45
place it before God and allow him to transform you from the inside out and I

12:51
believe that's where you know because like Esther I don't think you know or

12:59
anybody in the Old Testament for that matter I don't think they woke up every

13:04
day planning to part the Red Sea yeah you know but yet in that process of the

13:14
cycle of learning and and growing in maturity with God they got to that point

13:19
where their lives had meaning excuse me every day of their lives had meaning and

13:26
purpose but they got to that point where it really kind of came down to a pivotal

13:32
moment yes yeah and I think the difficult thing is the years preceding

13:40
that pivotal moment yes that are building up to that moment but you know

13:46
Moses didn't know he was going to part the Red Sea right exactly yeah and Esther didn't know she was you know for

13:54
such a time as this she didn't you know yeah none of it makes sense until that moment passes and and I do believe you

14:02
know we've all experienced and by all I mean you know if you've been around enough time right experience those

14:08
moments where you went oh you know that's why all that right but all that

14:15
when you're in the middle of all that it certainly seems purposeless or can yeah

14:21
right it cane yeah and I think and I think on the

14:26
other side of that if I may also go you know it's like um I think of Elijah you

14:34
know when he had the when he called down the fire from heaven on the on the sacrifices and and God came down and you

14:42
know and gobbl all up with fire you know I think about that and then I think about the days after yeah where he

14:50
actually wrestled yeah with a sense of meaning and purpose it's like you know

14:55
hey you just did this two days ago but now it's like M you know and there's

15:00
something to be said for those highs followed by lows too you know if every

15:06
yeah if if you were having those huge moments you know every year or whatever you'd also be having those you know the

15:14
the the high hangover right like the like the followup of well now what you

15:20
know yeah and Jonah too you know sure like I mean not that he was super excited about doing what he did but he

15:27
certainly had an impact moment in history and then went and moped you know exactly yeah so that yeah

15:35
that makes a lot of sense and I think yeah I think that's probably a pretty common thing and I think my desire

15:41
through this time is to basically say each and every day yeah has purpose and

15:47
meaning yeah I would love for you to explain why why Mark why do you think

15:53
that and how do you think that you know for an encouragement to the Elijah and

15:59
Jonas and the kids who haven't experienced their moment yet right like why is

16:06
today you know yeah and I and I guess I see it as part of a a

16:14
process to where I and here again I got I'm wrestling

16:19
with my own thinking based on your question so uh yeah I'm I'm thinking

16:25
about it as a growing process to where each day matters and to the degree that

16:34
I don't think something matters I don't engage the

16:39
process yes that and that that's that's how that's my answer and it it was funny they did a they did a study this is and

16:47
uh it was interesting they G they told people I heard about this so like I say that you can fact check me if you want

16:54
but it was a study that a person shared with me in my office so it was interesting they were talking about they

17:00
gave individuals um expensive sunglasses but they told them that the

17:06
glasses were really cheap okay and they gave them to them the interesting part was as they

17:12
measured accordingly as they measured their behavior okay the person tended to

17:21
minimize themselves and therefore their actions based on the fact that they had

17:27
cheap sunglass and I think our lives can be very

17:33
similar when we say h what does it matter what does my life matter what

17:39
what value do I have yeah you cheap in your own activities exactly you cheap in all of your activities it makes it that

17:46
much easier to like CS leou said play with u how do you say that the mud you

17:52
know you remember that don't so there's a quote from CS Lewis about um oh man I

17:58
got I'm I'm actually going to look it up cuz it's too good too okay while I look that up uh it's also making me thinking

18:04
about in terms of process you know we talked about in previous episodes the

18:10
value of winter sure yeah and uh winter is not a time of growth correct right it

18:17
usually follows you know a harvest yeah right it's a time of almost but it can

18:23
be a time of unseen regrowth as we store up yes so that's

18:29
that's certainly what I'm I'm I'm getting at it which is to say that something I've been learning is

18:36
the value of winter sure you know and in a process yeah and you know I've lived

18:42
40 years now yeah and I would say it's taken me 40

18:47
years I'm not I'm still learning like you walk out in winter and it's like no

18:53
this plant's dead dead you know I this tree is not coming back you know just

18:59
the perception of what it looks like in winter is no hope sure right yeah and

19:06
you've been you know I've been through 39 Winters before I know how this works

19:11
and yet this Winter's different and here's here's what I like about what you're saying as I'm thinking about it

19:17
is the even in Winter I think the difficult part is right now as we're

19:24
coming out of winter because if I'm looking at one tree I'm going to say that one's dead but I can look to my

19:31
right and I can see one that's starting to get all red and starting to have blossoms you know that one's dead well

19:38
or why or why you think it's dead yes I know when in reality yeah that's not the

19:44
there's a different design there's a different purpose there's a different time for that specific one and I think

19:51
our at times it's easy to look at other people and say ah my life doesn't have

19:58
as much purpose as that person yep that comparison comes into play yep or you

20:05
can compare the other thing that can you can compare in so many ways oh I sure can you can compare right now so that

20:11
person's budding and I'm still dormant or you can compare you know it's harvest

20:17
time and I remember when my Harvest was you know whatever now look at this

20:22
person in this season in my season I'm I'm it's not the same you know what I mean so you can compare past Seasons as

20:30
well and I mean there's just so many ways we can compare right yeah and yeah

20:36
you want me to read that quote now I do but I think at times when we compare we undermine our own purpose yes very much

20:43
and that's that's the difficult part so yes back back to I'm glad you said that cuz we're talking about comparison but I

20:49
think it's important to say that's not good don't do the comparison it's a trap

20:56
I mean very much um and it doesn't minimize I mean when we do we tend to

21:02
minimize yes yeah so back to you know what made me think of the Cs lewiis

21:08
quote was what you were saying is when we don't have that sense of purpose

21:13
whether it's coming out of a season of purpose or it's just we have never entered one or whatever is when we start

21:20
to be content with lesser activities right like lesser things because what's

21:25
what's the point you know might as well right sure um so the the CS Lewis quote

21:33
that some I'm sure some people recognize it he Bas he said this we are half-hearted creatures fooling about

21:39
with drink and sex and ambition when infinite Joy is offered us like an ignorant child who wants to go on making

21:46
mud pies in a slum because he cannot imagine what is meant by the offer of a holiday at the sea we are far too easily

21:55
pleased have you ever heard that quote before I have now that you say that yeah yeah I didn't uh yeah yeah thanks for

22:01
sharing that though that's that's uh some good imagery as usual from C thank you Mr Mr Narnia yes exactly yeah when

22:10
you were talking about playing with stuff it's like playing with Narnia playing you know yeah playing with Asen

22:17
what do you say mud pies mud pies in a slum in a slum yeah when when you have an offer of a holiday at the sea yeah

22:23
yeah yeah it's so good and that's essentially what we're talking about is every one of us has that offer of a

22:30
holiday at the sea or that infinite Joy I guess is what he started with right this idea of starting today embracing

22:37
the Eternal purpose that I have which includes today and the day after and the

22:42
moment after until eternity you know yeah and I and I I'm still thinking

22:48
about that in that context of um I think a purpose I think purpose

22:54
sometimes my purpose might be at times making the mudpie

23:00
though you follow me I'm not I'm I'm recognizing from my the way I'm hearing

23:05
that is yes Eternal opportunities lie

23:10
ahead and we exchange like like Jonah said we we were we exchange worthless

23:17
Idols for the blessings of God but I think you know there there can

23:23
be and I think it's where we find it difficult at times there can be a purpose in my M what seems like just

23:32
making mud pies in my daily job I'm going to work I'm doing this thing over

23:39
and over again and I want to recognize that can seem purposeless yeah and we

23:47
can minimize the joy that's available and yet we don't want to be

23:53
I'm recognizing the other part of that we don't want to become complacent yeah and I'm here so yeah push back I'm just

24:00
no I love what you're saying and I agree with you I just you know that's not what

24:06
that quote means to me but I'm but I'm I think that's a good jump to that point which is and again I wouldn't

24:11
necessarily use the making mud pies as being a purposeful thing cuz in that analogy it's essentially saying doing a

24:18
worthless negative thing versus you know my brain was stuck I guess is what

24:24
I'm saying I completely agree in that there are some mundane you know activities that that are purposeful but

24:32
feel purposeless and and that includes the daily you know disciplining your

24:37
children or bringing them to school or you know like I mentioned walking from

24:42
my house to my office you know and just you know like those mundane moments

24:47
where there's opportunity to see um there's a verse it says God has set

24:53
eternity in the hearts of men mhm and I love that that verse and it just makes me like there are moments where I walk

25:00
to my office where um I don't know it's like used to okay there's two versions

25:06
right there's the version of like this again right it's another day at the grind you know you see my dead tree over

25:15
there whatever you know you just kind of have this this blossoming yeah exactly

25:20
and then there are other days where it's like all right today is the day of you know you just feel I don't know like

25:27
that sense of a purpose sure empowered yes yeah yeah yeah um yeah and I I do

25:34
feel like we are drawn to that purpose and we are become jaded when we feel

25:42
like it's not there and I think a lot like what you're talking about with those the the the faces you see across

25:48
um the room from you and counseling that are struggling I think they all

25:54
desperately desire purpose right and but you get to a place where you're jaded

26:00
like okay I tried that purpose thing I thought I mattered now I know the truth right like this this mundane life has

26:07
proven otherwise you know sure and I don't know if that's you know it kind of makes me you

26:14
polarizing topics or makes me wonder if like everybody gets a trophy kind of uh

26:20
cultural moment right uhuh has a big part of that it's like well if everyone gets a trophy what do trophies matter

26:28
sure right yeah and I certainly get the sense of that in a lot of the kids in

26:36
like compared to when I was growing up mhm like sports competition all that stuff felt like it mattered so much and

26:43
I look back and I think it mattered too much and it impacted my psyche in a a lot of negative ways and I almost see

26:50
the opposite now where it's like yeah maybe I'll play maybe I won't doesn't really matter you know like again those

26:57
trophies I mean I got a whole chest full of trophies from you know when I was a

27:03
kid and everyone got them and it's like well you know there's just not as much of a desire to climb that mountain and

27:11
stick a flag in the summit and say I did it you know what I mean it's like you know what I'm saying so I wonder if that

27:17
that impacts that as well and it contributes towards the jaded nature is just there's what's the point of you

27:24
know what I mean yeah your thoughts no I I was thinking about it I was listening

27:30
to what you said and I was thinking about you in the context of where would

27:35
you say you developed or have to what degree you've

27:41
developed your sense of purpose what it if someone were to ask you you know in

27:47
the process of a simple conversation what's your purpose in life

27:52
Justin you know just over coffee uh that's funny right after Dandy

28:00
you know I'm Dandy well what's your purpose exactly I mean really we we should be

28:07
asking those questions but but at the same time it's like you know somebody

28:13
off God you know what we do and say what do you do for work yeah exactly it's like mighty cold this morning wasn't it

28:19
Justin yeah you know what I'm saying when we move past that into real conversation so often I find myself or

28:26
others asking you know what you do for work or who you know like who are you essentially in the form of you know your

28:34
purpose in the form of work you know like the sum yeah which gets to my thought about being with a job which

28:41
we'll come back to if you remind me but um yeah so the last time someone asked me about my purpose in a coffee

28:48
shop the uh the answer I had was no I think I'm still working on that yeah I

28:53
think it's a lifelong Pursuit it should be honestly um I think think that's true

28:59
um I would say I definitely struggled with my moments years months whatever of

29:05
lacking and purpose and and wondering um but most of those moments

29:10
preceded as did we already talk about Esther yes yeah we talked about that yeah you don't have to introduce her uh

29:18
preceded those moments of like oh that's why I was a house painter for 10 years

29:23
you know what I mean and there was got painted houses I started doing that when I 16 and it was amazing summer job and

29:30
then U right after graduating I decided I'd keep doing that while going to college and so that's like all right I'm

29:36
doing work and whatever then I graduate and then I was like you know what I'm going to keep painting cuz I just got

29:41
married and it pays the bills and from that moment you know I'm in my early 20s

29:46
when a guy's looking for figuring out what his purpose is right like what it is to be a man and an adult and it just

29:54
all felt wrong like I'm not I I'm not meant to be a painter you know I just felt like that wasn't my purpose sure

30:02
and yet that's what I was stuck in you know and to use go back to that

30:07
analogy I felt like I was making mud pies in a slum like you said um and it

30:13
just felt wrong and what I really wanted was something much more glamorous you

30:20
know what I mean um and anything much more glamorous well I had a couple

30:25
specific versions of what I wanted one was Ministry and again in my mind in early 20s that think that was

30:33
clamor yeah like to be in in a paid Ministry kind of um have influence on

30:39
people's life but you know in a way that was sustained by pay right um and then

30:44
the other version was basically a graphic designer living in a loft in New York wow that was that was just you know

30:52
the the top of the food chain to me was was that and wow uh neither of those

30:58
things was painting houses in North Carolina you know what I mean it was or Minnesota um so I struggled just kind of

31:06
on a daily basis with what's my purpose and certainly there was things around that I was able to contribute in in fact

31:13
I started getting involved in Celebrate Recovery in in 2007 nice which is a long time ago and

31:21
during that time I was painting houses and you know stuff like that has always

31:27
been a part of my life you know some Ministry some opportunities with other

31:32
guys and not recognizing in those moments how much a part of my purpose

31:39
those things were sure where now I'm 40 yeah double the 20 yeah and I'm able to

31:46
see long time ago yeah a long time I'm able to see those the journey and how

31:54
every one of those moments was part of my purpose right and like even the drudgery of like again going back to the

32:00
analogy taken wrong making those mud pies was teaching me how to make mud pies in in a way that was honoring right

32:08
like sure and you know there was plenty of years I spent uh being in a

32:15
complaining position about my role as a house painter and I would say right

32:21
before God let me get out of that he and I would almost say he wasn't going to let me get out of it till I learned to

32:26
stop being that way and figure out how to you know whether you eat or drink or

32:32
whatsoever you do do all to the glory of God and then the other verse about um work as unto the Lord right there's a

32:39
verse about that like those those types of verses were what he was teaching me in that time to basically say when you

32:46
go paint a house you need to paint a house as if I'm paying your paycheck CU

32:51
guess what buddy I am yeah you know and this is why you're here on this Earth

32:56
this to serve me not not your boss your bainer boss not the the house uh owner

33:03
right home owner and that dramatically transformed some things in my life when

33:10
I was able to start putting that into place on a daily basis and I would argue gave me purpose painting houses you know

33:17
what I mean sure yeah um so I don't know that's a long story but you know have

33:23
time we're at a coffee shop so exactly exactly U so purpose is I think I'm always on the hunt for it but I'm also

33:29
on the lookout for what today is proving

33:35
of past purpose you know like how today's purpose is being made clear

33:40
through through its activities and the results of harvest right and sure um again I think that's also a thing that

33:48
can I think there's there's two scenarios there's there's um someone who hasn't really experienced a significant

33:54
Harvest and I would put that a lot of kids in that that you you know youth in that camp where it's like you haven't

34:00
experienced it yet so it's why would you believe there is one sure and then I would say there's maybe the crowd of you

34:07
had one Harvest or like one moment that you felt was in that's past and you don't have any proof of the seasonal

34:13
nature of harvest sure right and so it's like I think in both those situations it

34:18
can be very disheartening or or lacking in purpose but no I like your use of

34:23
that word the analogy of the Harvest because I think there is that part of us

34:29
you know that once you experience it it's like well I want that every day

34:37
you know but yeah Harvest is is part of a season and you know and if I haven't

34:42
experienced that that's to the point of where's mine yeah you know that kind of thing and I and I like that when you see

34:50
it in that aspect of season being able to recognize that yeah it's coming or

34:57
it's going to a certain degree both at the same time maybe even you know it's like one's going while the other one's

35:04
still on the way and yet being able to recognize there's

35:10
there's purpose in summer winter spring yes you know yeah yeah and the you know

35:17
a little plug for our planting Things episode there you go you know we talk a lot about what Nature's been teaching me

35:24
specifically and all but you know you certainly talked about that too but you've been involved in nature a lot longer than I him so it's not nearly as

35:30
like oh interesting uh but the value of winter is just something that's been an ongoing

35:38
learning for me in my 39 40 year years you know of life and uh yeah I I think

35:46
it'd be interesting Mark to talk about or to call out a few scenarios that are difficult in terms of

35:54
purpose I mean we talked about the kids right who have an exp Ser the Harvest yeah maybe the onetime Harvest maybe you

36:01
were a kid then you were in college and you were part of like you know FCA or

36:06
something or you had a significant moment at College where it felt like this is what life is about sure cuz I've

36:12
heard that a lot right people go to college and they find their people and they're able to I I think about Lizzy

36:17
too like she's going to Florida cleaning up after her like I don't know that you can feel more purpose than that like iar

36:25
like I am doing the thing you know I that happens a lot in college where you know people who are young and and and on

36:33
fire and and have energy you know get together and they do something and it's so cool and I love hearing about it but

36:40
you think about that person they experiened that Harvest for the first time and then they come back home or

36:46
they can't find the you know they have to move back home to the parents basement cuz they couldn't find a job or

36:51
whatever you know like there's that scenario yeah I also think about um U empty nesters right

36:58
the last kid finally left and it's like oh it's mighty quiet in here you know um

37:04
retirement is another one I think of that I hear you know people who move you know cuz we live in a retirement uh

37:10
Community right like majorly and uh you you definitely get wind of that I

37:17
certainly have um of people being like I don't know what to do with myself like

37:23
you know they had purpose they were you know a big wig at some you know multi National Corporation or in some cases

37:30
they were a secret service agent or something like now what you know I'm the thinky little town you know y yeah no

37:38
those are a few scenarios can you think of any other well when you were describing uh unity and uh in kids I

37:44
think a summer camp you know that that aspect of wow this is amazing this is

37:49
great I want to do this all the time and then it's like that you know lull yeah

37:55
you know and it's followed by back to school yeah back to school and back to home and it's like that Unity you know or I think

38:02
I think there's I think of uh Sports Seasons like you had mentioned too yes you know you have a you have a big

38:09
season you know or a good season and it's like you know I want that next year

38:15
too yep you know and I think there's something to be said for you know the ability to say okay yeah not every

38:21
season's going to be like that but celebrating the ones that are yep you know and so yeah no I think I think you

38:28
did a great job of hitting a lot of the big ones another one that came to mind real quick yeah cuz you thinking of

38:34
seasons like uh as a kid having to move

38:39
town oh sure and how maybe it was like I was planning a harvest there you know I

38:44
was planting the seeds and now I'll never see that Harvest and yeah I feel like that's another scenario of purpose

38:53
and I I'd agree in that context and I think that's where you know the four that I mentioned at the beginning kind

38:59
of come into play because I think identity yeah is a is a is a tremendous

39:04
factor in some of these especially you know when I was the the big wig yeah you

39:09
know and and I could tell this person to go and do and they they did and now it's

39:16
like I'm home and my spouse doesn't listen to me the same way that my yeah you know employees did you know I like

39:23
what's what's up with this but yeah I agree with what you're saying each one of those seasons can have a sense of I

39:32
don't think you can decouple identity from purpose right I agree yeah that's why I was saying before you know it's

39:38
like you're going to you're they're intermingled to a tremendous or interwoven I guess I should say in such

39:45
a way that says yeah one one tends to impact the other and you know I believe

39:52
when our identity changes whether we're moving whether we're going someplace else it's it's kind of difficult to

40:01
recognize my purpose yeah if I've gone from a big fish in a in a small pond to

40:07
a a small fish in a big pond you know that can be that can be a difficult Dynamic and I start to wrestle with okay

40:15
what's my purpose and I think the reality of it is is to take that take

40:21
the fish that you are that whatever size as you compare yourself and start saying

40:27
okay yeah there is a meaning there is there is something to be said for this

40:33
season and I and I I think you know the job analogy I think that's a that's just

40:39
a really common one yeah you know when we think about um you know the fact that I don't

40:47
have a job you know that can really impact especially guys I I would dare say so not that females can't be you

40:53
know as they you know wrestle with a security I think you know their desire is for security so when jobs change but

41:00
I think you know guys dressle far more with that level of purpose because I

41:05
think our identities are in it I think you know we we tend to see ourselves as the provider if you will and you know if

41:13
I lose my job or my circumstances change around my job you know that's that's a

41:19
tremendous hit and it's like okay yeah go ahead yeah I agree I think

41:26
i' I've seen it happened a few times right where someone

41:31
I I don't know respect them either way but someone you know I respected in and

41:37
they had a good career and all this kind of stuff anded you know for whatever reason ended up in a place where they

41:43
didn't have that right and to see the difference it makes in somebody is crazy

41:50
and I experienced it myself as well because there was a period of time where I used to be house painter and then you know 2008 kind of triggered this series

41:57
of events and I ended up not having opportunity to paint houses and so there was a 2-year Gap where I didn't have an

42:04
identity in in the term in form of a job that I would go to you know I was doing odds and it and stuff but um and yeah

42:12
just remember experiencing and and yet those that 2-year period was certainly

42:17
uh a a replanting and you know my next career started after that which I'm

42:24
currently doing which is amazing um but yeah just see that in other guys too where it's

42:29
like it not it doesn't just impact them in a little way right lack

42:35
of purpose let's just make this broader and say when you don't have a sense of purpose it doesn't just impact your

42:42
countenance right like oh I'm not as happy or whatever it impacts everything

42:49
right because like I was saying now it's like well why not make mud pies why not

42:55
look at pornography all day mhm right what else you know what else is there to do yeah you know what I mean it go there

43:02
yeah yeah and I've seen it SE it happen you know and you know not just pornography but just like fall back to

43:10
these lesser things as you know you could be doing in this period where you don't have a job you could be learning

43:17
about a new career MH you could be building something but instead you know falling back to these

43:24
things and just yeah it's it's a it's crazy how not having that identity in

43:29
the form of a job you know what that brings in terms of identity completely

43:35
can impact and affect your purpose to the point where you feel like you have none even though like again the argument

43:42
we're making is that your purpose doesn't end with a

43:47
particular uh event sure or exactly yeah the big event doesn't necessarily

43:54
completely define you or your total sense purp because yeah I I feel like I

44:00
heard this once remember there's a difference a mission and a calling and an

44:07
appointment oh okay so an appointment is like a very temporary thing sure and you

44:13
know it's like okay I need to like for example marriage on the rock you know you've been doing this for many years

44:18
now but let's say this is your appointment is like this season for these next however many weeks y this is

44:24
my appointment this is what I'm I'm doing yep but it's it's not necessarily your calling your calling is this big

44:32
picture right like it's this I am called to be someone who impacts people in terms of improving you know helping them

44:39
improve in their marriage and family right sure and because of that calling you've taken on some appointments and

44:45
you've taken on some missions and missions are kind of that middle like career level type thing my mission is to

44:51
do my calling through and family therapist through how

44:56
I see it podcast through whatever right my mission is actually accomplished appointment by appointment H yeah is

45:04
that what I'm hearing I mean I sure in my in my analogy a mission is kind of

45:09
this yes I think so I don't know to where it's like this is my mission but my overall calling so each each one in

45:16
other words to the degree that I see this this Vision what was the third one

45:22
V not Vision calling calling yes thank you yeah that I realized which are similar right Vision Vision usually

45:30
precedes the calling right sure and that's what I'm saying to where the calling is made up by these these

45:36
smaller missionary Mission opportunities that I take on through a series of

45:42
appointments and I think that's where the daily aspect of fulfilling each and

45:49
every appointment that I'm given is part of that greater Mission and therefore my

45:54
calling the appointments either build towards your calling or point you to it

46:01
because if you don't necessarily know what your calling is and again your calling doesn't have to be I'm supposed

46:07
to be a missionary in Africa or whatever it can be I'm supposed to be the best darn dad and you know you know I don't

46:13
know like it no I ex exactly it's very important to understand that it does not have to be a ministerial type role which

46:22
I feel like growing up to me that's what calling meant sure right and and I I do

46:27
believe as Believers um your calling you know is intertwined with with God's

46:34
kingdom but the way it works itself out does not mean missionary in Africa for everybody sometimes it means CEO and

46:41
Multinational Corporation right um but yeah I I I

46:47
think and this again plug in past episodes we talked about U mission

46:53
statements sure right it's about writing that definition of who I want to be and

46:58
then working that out on a daily basis and with each appointment but if you don't have that calling it like you're

47:05
saying take those appointments as opportunities to figure to help figure it out to help iron it out like well I'm

47:12
supposed to babysit this kid today you know you know happens to be your child

47:17
no I'm just kidding but I was thinking about it in that context you know it's

47:22
like I think our tendency and and maybe even in as get jobs mixed up sometimes

47:29
they become a priority over family I think you know at times that ability to

47:35
recognize I do have a mission you know in my in my own family yeah and I I

47:42
think sometimes as I'm I'm I'm just thinking of different conversations I had I don't think it's enough to not be

47:50
like my parents MH you follow me I think we can get caught up in that and say

47:55
well I just don't want to do it the way they did but when we think when we take

48:00
that that role as a parent and say okay what do I want my children to become

48:08
what do I want them to learn you know then that takes on a whole different

48:13
sense of purpose for me it's not just avoiding these things it's actually

48:19
modeling this other lifestyle that's that's completely different than just and I think you know

48:26
so often in our sense of purpose we can get lost on doing the quote unquote big

48:32
they did the air quotes in a you know the quote unquote big thing Y and I think we lose that sense of no this is

48:41
really the bigger Thing If I multiply that out over 20 years you know where

48:48
where's this how what's this tree going to look like as opposed to you know the weeds that I tend to focus on and this

48:55
tree yeah I'm going to be held accountable for where those weeds you know it's like I didn't call you to

49:01
those weeds you know and I think that that's a perfect an awesome point in the sense that you know we talk a lot about

49:09
finding God's will in in the Christian Community right okay um but his will is

49:14
very clear um in a lot of ways so the minute you know you're sperm Meats an egg sure your

49:23
purpose has has shifted you know well let's let's say you know Meats an egg but then it's born all right let's let's

49:30
go all the way there let's let's let's go ahead and start right there this a good thing for our culture to be aware of when the two meet right yes so think

49:39
about how those two are meeting cuz it's going to impact relase you're you're

49:45
you're potentially entering a new Mission field so it was when your

49:50
eyebrows raised during release that I that started me laughing it's like wow that's pretty that's pretty good but yes

49:57
all right so back to the point uh yeah so I mean the minute you have a child your calling is made

50:06
drastically clearer sure uh if you're willing to see it but in terms of you

50:11
know the kingdom that's that's that is your calling is to be a parent and you know that needs to be a major part of

50:18
your mission right and um yeah no I

50:24
appreciate that as far as yes to where I think we have multiple things even and I

50:29
think even you know how we treat our parents you know you think when I'm

50:35
thinking about empty nest you know that kind of thing you know because I I believe there is something to be said

50:40
for the way that we treat our parents at the end of their lives you know I'm not looking to you know sign any Guild or

50:46
blame or anything for but just pay attention John and Lizzy no not that but I'm just thinking

50:53
about it as my own parents age you know and it's like okay you know cuz Jesus

51:00
you know talked with people it's like you know don't don't be don't be getting this wrong you know you think you're

51:06
you're you're doing this big thing by saying okay whatever I would have given to you I'm going to give to God in the

51:12
temple it's like Jesus basically said no no no no no take care of your parents

51:17
you know that kind of thing so so yeah I what what and that just came out of so

51:23
children oh yeah the other end of the spectrum was the same way where the important people are here and now these

51:30
kids want to interrupt he said no no no no exactly you know he's very about about upending our version of the

51:36
kingdom and saying no no no the kingdom is filled with these you know those who have you know easy faith and and believe

51:44
you know this is what you need to be like Faith like these children and let them come you know yeah yeah kind so

51:50
same thing in terms of having a child like we think ah this child's in the way of my purpose you know like no no no no

51:57
no this child is a part of the purpose yeah yeah yeah so yeah that's uh

52:04
appreciate you say and I and I think you know I appreciate what you brought into from that sense of Seasons you know and

52:12
how um we have that ability to be able to say okay yeah empty nest is coming

52:20
how how am I preparing for it yeah you know are are are we doing the things that basically value our relationship

52:27
even while we have kids to where you know when the house gets quiet we still

52:32
know how to have a conversation or you know just those kind of things that basically help in that process yeah

52:40
there's something to be said for preparing for those next seasons of winter right to be able say all right I

52:45
know I'm going to retire in two years what what what can I start doing right now to figure out what my calling my

52:52
purpose is outside of what I specifically go do every day Y and is there something I can bring with me away

52:59
from that do I have do I have healthy Hobbies now you know that I can just go

53:04
and because I think so much of it is that adjustment that's like we're both home now and we're used to spending you

53:11
know eight hours at least away from each other so to come back together it's like what do we do with all this time yeah

53:18
and I expect you to entertain me while I'm here yeah you know and that's not reality but yes preparing it advance I

53:26
think are health for those seasons and even if you didn't prepare in advance and you find yourself in those Seasons

53:32
hopefully this is a good reminder of you are not what you're currently doing sure

53:38
you are much more than that and you know you can be you can step out of that slum

53:46
and making mud pies and instead make something real you know like you know sure adopt your purpose in your current

53:53
moment what even if that is you know looking at that TR child on the floor across from you in the eyes and and

54:01
connecting with them and saying recognizing like wait a second I have a moment right here yeah where I can grasp

54:08
my purpose MH just in building speaking life into this child by just listening

54:15
or encouraging or teaching or you know yep yeah so yeah go ahead the circle of

54:22
influence versus circle of concern we've talked about that in episod but stepen Cy basically says when we spend all of

54:30
our energy in the circle of concern which is essentially outside of our

54:36
ability to influence sure then our circle of influence shrinks so where we have less opportunities to do something

54:43
of you know of purpose I guess I don't know sure but when you can invert that and say you know what I don't have

54:49
control over who wins this election but I do have control over you know whether this child in front of me is learning

54:56
and growing right in front of me I have control over my influence in that sure and you focus on your circle of

55:02
influence then it grows AG right and so I think that's a big part of in those Seasons where you don't feel your

55:09
purpose is to look around about right around you in your circle of the things

55:14
that you can influence and where are you missing opportunities and start focusing on those for now yeah and let the

55:21
worries of the big purpose the big capital P purpose work itself out H is

55:26
that fair that's fair yeah no that's more than fair so yeah by all means know

55:34
that uh I guess that my desire would be and you said it very well I just uh know

55:40
that your life has purpose yeah know that your life has meaning and you know be about that process of fulfilling that

55:47
on a daily basis and I think we'll all be surprised

55:52
yeah and if you want to email us and and give us your scenario of lacking in

55:59
purpose we'll write you back what your purpose is just kidding no I think that could be

56:06
interesting to hear about different uh realities people are in and yeah yeah

56:12
we'd like to hear from you if you want well thanks for sharing Justin thank you for sharing hey happy to do so you know

56:19
we like doing this cuz it's part of our purpose there you go this is how we see it

56:30
hey thank you for listening to our podcast if you like how I see it please

56:35
do all the things that podcasts tell you to do subscribe rate review follow us uh

56:43
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56:49
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56:59
please tell your friends about this show and we'll see you on the next one

57:05
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