0:00
[Music]

0:05
so what's been on your mind this week Justin well at the Forefront is lack of

0:12
hot water yeah due to a water heater apparently stopping yesterday for

0:19
no good reason yeah that's at the Forefront so in reality the the the cold

0:25
shower has just coagulated the blood in your body and it's just yeah you're having a hard time flowing yeah okay

0:34
yeah that's good what about you in the sense that yeah it's a good thing to experience makes us thankful for when we

0:41
have hot water mhm yeah it's always I'm always amazed at the uh the difference

0:46
in ground temperature how it affects the cold water cuz like in the summertime you can't really get cold water right

0:54
you know to get refreshing in the shower but in the sun in the in the winter time

0:59
you can get some pretty refreshing water coming out that some people do call that

1:04
kind of water refreshing I agree yeah yeah no I was telling you earlier of

1:12
course that taking that c shower my fingers basically they just went white

1:18
and then when I was done showering they just started tingling yeah it wasn't a good feeling did and it's always it's

1:24
always fun when you have that uh that breathing pattern that goes along with that little bit bit of shock and then

1:30
you get on the other side of it it's like oh this is not a big deal wait you can get on the other side yeah oh yeah

1:37
and it's it's good opportunity to practice your breathing because you're very conscious you mean in that moment

1:44
when that shocky feeling that when that cold water is coming down across your body it's like yeah yeah well I think I

1:52
missed the opportunity to embrace the opportunity you know after we're done recording you could just go back in and

1:59
just hop in shower while you're uh while you have that awareness yeah

2:05
[Music]

2:11
but welcome to how I see it with me Mark Pratt and Justin Sternberg this is a

2:18
podcast that works to countercultural polarization through thoughtful

2:25
[Music] conversations so yeah what's new with

2:30
you oh seems like a lot of stuff new and you know yeah it's just um I'm I'm

2:38
grateful for a lot of new stuff a lot of new clients cool yeah it is and just and

2:44
just uh I guess I just seeing like reoccurring themes of God's faithfulness as you know you experience new clients

2:51
and a desire to offer hope and you know that kind of thing and yeah it's just

2:57
been really neat and I think in some ways I've been uh probably more aware of it with the whole you know Asbury

3:04
College thing as far as you know that whether you want to call it a Revival or not but that that outpouring of God's

3:11
spirit in that in that place at this time with uh this generation to a

3:18
certain degree and I I don't I don't say that necessarily I mean I'm not sure we're always trendy and by the time we

3:26
put a recording out it might be you know a little later than the but that's

3:31
that's what's been on my mind this week MH just that uh that

3:37
faithfulness I think that we can see if we're if we're willing to look for it I

3:43
think we can see it you know in every generation that aspect of how God has

3:51
moved in some way does that make sense yeah yeah I

3:57
think cuz even this Asberry Park thing it's cool cuz every time I've been reading about it it's like they talk

4:04
about how this same thing happened in I think the 70s or yeah something you know yeah at literally the same College

4:11
exactly the same kind of thing and that was that's pretty pretty awesome sure and I think you know and I was listening

4:18
to a fellow on another podcast you know he was a senior he's actually a teacher

4:24
he's actually a professor there now oh wow and he was a senior there in the 7s

4:29
when he occurred that's cool yeah and it was uh and he you know he talked about

4:35
you know an outpouring that happened in the third in the 40s excuse me wow as well so it's just kind of a because when

4:41
it happened in the 70s they're like this happened in the 30s too or in the 40s yeah to where every you know 30 years or

4:48
so yeah every 30 years and it makes me wonder you know yeah we're you know

4:53
basically 2023 and what happened but it makes me wonder how many pourings

5:00
we've missed out yeah I'm not yeah I'm not saying it's necessarily a media thing but I'm sure you know it just it

5:08
just reminds me that I think God is faithful to every

5:14
generation in some ways to be able to just pour out and and have these

5:20
opportunities to be able to say okay this is what I am this is this is who I

5:25
am I'm accessible and I just want you to know

5:30
that I'm here and I think each generation gets that

5:36
opportunity in ways that honor God or or I think in some

5:43
ways God honors Jesus through that you know it's you know that glorification

5:49
type thing I think it's something we get to do every day as far as how we glorify

5:54
but I think it's I think those outpourings are God's way of glorifying is son and saying okay this is the

6:01
access this is the way and I desire relationship I desire to be present in

6:06
your life and it's like you don't even have to hide from me because I'll

6:12
come you know I'll come find you MH and and then that of course that makes me

6:18
always wonder you know there's there's that part of me that wonders okay what is it about that

6:25
institution you know and the individual I was listening to talked about it from the sense of you know uh you

6:33
um I forget the guy uh Jonathan Edwards he he you know he said some of to the

6:40
the the strongest writing about Revival

6:45
was by Jonathan Edwards in his opinion and he was talking about con uh

6:51
confession is typically what routinely leads to this outpouring and I was thinking about that

6:58
you know I think in some cases even in my own life how just more so recently

7:04
here I've had that desire I think in some cases it's it's routinely been

7:11
there from an aspect of saying okay and I think we've even talked about it before another podcasts um this is

7:18
bigger than me I want to be about doing things that are bigger than me and so I

7:24
need your help and I think that is an acknowledgment

7:29
of who we are in in comparison to who God is and his ability to move on our

7:36
behalf but I see that as a little different than confession because I

7:41
think confession is that ability to recognize those ways that I have tried

7:49
to do things in my own strength and for me you know more so recently here I've

7:54
been wrestling with my my striving MH versus my dependence

8:01
and you know that's been something that I've been trying to you know be more conscious about because like you say you

8:09
know in in our culture you know people people

8:14
may um value that um independent ability to do

8:23
things and I think you know for me that can even become a sense of Pride or arrogance that if I don't want if I'm

8:30
not mindful of it you know I I I think I think I can do this and I I've just been

8:39
more mindful of that does that make sense yeah and yet you know he certainly gives us a lot of

8:47
ability right like oh sure so it's it's uh almost natural for us to go um yeah I

8:55
can do this because you know through his Grace and strength he's allowed us to do

9:01
a lot of other things prior to and so it's sure of course I can take this one on too and in some senses that's okay

9:09
right because it's part of the confidence that you know we've gained

9:14
through again his grace which we probably aren't G giving credit for fully all always yeah um but it is that

9:23
I would say the natural um outpouring of continual dependence on him is perceived

9:30
abilities to do a lot of things yeah and I and I think you're right I think you know there is that that Talent Dynamic

9:36
that we see in scripture you know because I think he does give us talents

9:41
you know whether they're actual you know abilities or you know just resources

9:47
that we have at our disposal and yet I think you know I recognize that God

9:53
wants us to use them for a reason mhm and yet you know I think for me

9:58
personally it becomes about okay these aren't necessarily mine just to be used

10:04
to do what I want to do mhm there's a purpose in it yeah and sometimes I'm not

10:11
always mindful of you know reflecting about that and

10:16
saying okay God what do you want me to do with these versus what I'm striving to do with these and I think that's

10:22
where it's been just a little more I've become a little more aware recently and so yeah that's kind of a

10:30
that's kind of a neat thing to be able to reflect on especially at this time

10:35
you know when you're you're you know if you're aware yeah I mean

10:42
yeah go ahead uh this is back to the

10:47
Asberry thing sure a little bit but like or it kind of ties into you know our

10:52
typical conversations but is there have you found that the the idea of Revival

10:59
is polarizing in any way oh certainly yeah and how would you say that that has

11:05
been true well in your experience I guess I guess I I'm looking at it

11:12
now and I'm just saying if if I heard about

11:18
it through a text message a group text message and I'm I'm willing to recognize

11:25
that you know as I've sought you you know opportunities to hear and you know

11:31
that kind of thing I've I've learned some but it's interesting that it's not

11:38
necessarily newsworthy you know from my perspective it's not like it's it's part of the

11:44
breakdown of the evening news if you will you follow me and it's like I can't

11:50
think of too many other Gatherings of this size you know where people are

11:56
continually you know actually tra traveling to an area to experience I'll

12:03
call it a you know a movement to worship

12:08
and you know by in this generation and yet there it hasn't it hasn't

12:16
necessarily made a news feed that I've you know got you that you that you yeah

12:21
a med you know just kind of a a General Media news feed I haven't seen it I'm

12:26
not saying it hasn't happened but just saying I haven't seen it

12:32
yeah you know what's so cool about this though you you know why it's kind of

12:39
grown and gotten crazy and you know you know about it sure what do you know why

12:44
oh I I do not well media what media could play into that

12:50
not the media that you were just talking about no no it's social social media so that I've read several articles you know

12:56
about it just kind of you know whatever one pops up in my social media I like to read about it you know yeah and um that

13:04
is the thing that's kind of the common threat across all these articles is like it people there you know people in the

13:11
article writing about it saying there's just something the way this thing's going viral on social media that's

13:16
drawing people to this you know sure people are looking for something real and they you know that kind of thing but

13:23
um I just think you know going back to you know we've had an episode about social media and kind of the pros and

13:28
cons to it right and how it can um people are hungry that's why they're um

13:34
Doom scrolling right sure through Facebook through just you know scroll scroll scroll show

13:41
me something good you know and I think this is good right as this lands in

13:47
people's social media feeds there's something about it and the other thing that stands out about this particular uh

13:54
opportunity sure this uh situ you know uh move movement whatever you call it

14:03
Revival um that I've heard over and over is that there's nothing

14:10
particularly that stands out about what they're doing no I hear you every article's like it's just people singing

14:17
yeah Acappella yeah Acappella yeah some people sometimes they guy will bring a

14:22
guitar and they'll do it that way sometimes you know it's kind of been a little ad hoc right yeah and like the

14:29
first article I read that kind of talked about the beginning of his like just started as a normal Chapel service with a mediocre speaker I don't remember it

14:36
said mediocre but it kind of gave this this context of there's nothing special

14:41
here so what's going on yeah you know and like in our clickbait world uh right

14:46
we we want to know you know someone handled a snake and didn't die or you know I don't know like uh whatever it is

14:53
we're looking for those Sensational things and what's I think so incredible about this

14:59
is that what's special is there's nothing special but the spirit sure

15:05
right the spirit is clearly present in in this atmosphere and it's drawing like a magnet people to it you know and as

15:13
people see like there this is clearly real sure because there's no smoke in

15:19
mirrors right there's none of that you know kind of traditional what's now traditional right

15:25
in church to have all all the all the stuff right to kind of draw you in the

15:31
smoke the right the atmosphere yep and to be clear I'm not you know decrying

15:37
that I'm just saying like there's none of that in this package and so people go

15:42
well it must be real sure right yeah and I think that's what has stood out to me

15:49
the most about the things I've been reading well those two things that just wow the power of social media and how

15:56
God is redeeming social media and you know the you know 30 years ago at the last one of these it it was in the

16:03
papers I've seen in in those articles like screenshots of the newspaper

16:08
articles from the last time this happened oh wow so it was cool to kind of see like it was in some some

16:13
newspapers at that point yeah you know and we're kind maybe like you said it's not in the traditional media but it

16:20
doesn't matter and I think that's what's pretty cool and I would even guess that

16:26
it's probably hit some social or some nor traditional media outlets at this point just to be part of the you know

16:35
what's that word the current event the yeah just to

16:40
be able to say yeah we're we're getting you know we're hitting you where you're at kind of thing I imagine it landed

16:47
some some places but as just probably a little talking point um no I hear you but yeah I think those two things stand

16:54
out just the social media impact that it's had in um and then just the UNS

17:00
specialness of it well and I it's interesting you say it that that way I

17:06
think it I think about it being special yeah in the sense don't hear me wrong no

17:11
no no in in the sense to the genz generation I think cuz you know yeah

17:19
there there that has its own polarization you know depending on who

17:24
you talk to it's like you know if you're if you're just kind of talking with someone who's observing you

17:33
know a young individual you know that Doom scrolling you know on their phone

17:38
seeming disconnected you know that that seemingly disconnected from

17:45
a um uh seemingly disconnected from a

17:51
face-to-face contact you know doesn't mean that they're not Fuller fully

17:57
connected in a social media world you follow me yeah and that can have its own

18:03
polarizing context and yet I think from my perspective you

18:09
know uh the hope of the next generation

18:15
is in this spiritual hunger because I think you know I'll I'll take

18:20
responsibility you know I'm not sure my generation did a great job of passing

18:26
down you know um you know biblical lifestyle you know

18:33
I mean not I'm not just saying you know Christian relationship but you know that that there is a fullness that can be

18:43
experienced through you know relationship with Christ and I think you know my generation has basically said

18:50
well you know this was this this relate this uh religion stuff was forced down my throat so I'm just going to give you

18:59
the opportunity to choose what you want you follow me and I think that's been a

19:05
disservice in some ways to this generation and yet God is basically able

19:12
to say that redeeming like you refer to it's like okay I get where you're coming

19:18
from maybe but at the same time I'm still GNA prove I'm going to show myself

19:24
to this generation in a way that says if they want to acknowledge me I'm still

19:31
right here I haven't gone anywhere and you can say you know well you can deny

19:37
it any way you want to but if you want to really seek truth here's an

19:44
opportunity and and now the choice is yours mhh and I and I and I like your

19:51
connection to social media because I would I would I would have to

19:56
agree you know I found out a text message and I don't scroll much so you know I haven't you know anything that

20:03
I've heard well anything that I've heard is basically something you know that John was playing or you know a podcast

20:09
that we were listening to that kind of thing where you know people have been there and you know and shared what that

20:17
was like so yeah and you know they were talking about you know how the speaker was you know had just kind of had a long

20:24
list of things to do and you know just kind of going through the most but at the same time God chose to show

20:32
up MH yeah and that's that's that's neat to me yeah it is and I think you know

20:38
the reality of it is that just it just kind of speaks to the aspect

20:44
of kind of maybe coming to the end of ourselves yeah that's that's when God is

20:50
really able to well he's able to show up anytime but I think that's when he

20:57
desires to show up in some ways especially in our lives is to the point

21:02
where we're willing to say Okay God I need you and I recognize I got stuff in

21:08
my life and I'm willing to talk with you about it and it's at that point you know God basically shows up and I think

21:15
that's a that's a neat opportunity I think it's you know being modeled in

21:20
what we're experiencing at Asberry so that's kind of a yeah and yeah even in

21:27
most of the I would say Revival moments in my own life have kind of come at the

21:33
same kind of thing where um yeah I was like you said coming at theend to the

21:39
end of myself but also they weren't triggered by

21:44
any any of the things you would think right sure you know such as uh

21:50
environment or whatever it's like there's been moments where he showed up and the what made it so impactful in my

21:57
life was the fact that there wasn't a catalyst for it sure right go back to

22:03
that word Catalyst yes there wasn't something that accelerated it in my you know in my life except maybe that

22:10
dependence I guess but or like you know maybe at the end of myself like you said

22:15
but um I think in a lot of those moments those Sweet Moments where it's like he's present and I've never felt him more

22:22
present was part of what stood out what made it so special was the fact that

22:28
there was no reason for it there was no like smoking mirrors to produce this there was no magical chant to create it

22:36
he just showed up yeah and I think that's what's cool about this Asberry thing is you know what it's not it's not

22:44
about what we do it's not about our our uh you know our special uh potions and

22:50
yeah it's not a Conjuring right a Conjuring thank you that's the word yes it's not a Conjuring he just sometimes

22:56
will show up and you want to be there when he does sure and what's cool about it is people are seeing it through

23:03
social media through whatever and saying I want to go see this you know if he's going to be there I want to see you know

23:09
and people are traveling across the world sure just to see what this looks

23:15
like yeah you know and the thing I like about that too is like it's it's it's still happening MH you know it's not

23:23
like you know when I think of scripture I think you know that the the the paralytic that Jesus healed you know

23:28
because he couldn't get into the pool in time you know there was just this one small segment of time when the water

23:35
might have stirred and the first one in got to you know experience healing but

23:41
you know I think that's why that's part of the reason Jesus is here is that that healing is available all the time in in

23:48
from a spiritual sense we don't always get the physical healing but the spiritual healing is always available

23:55
and I like I like the fact that you know what we're what they're experiencing there and what we're hearing about here

24:02
is you know has been going on for days MH you know and if you you know desire

24:08
to be a part of that and I think I correct me if I'm wrong but I think the you know in the 70s it went on they

24:14
closed classes down for I want to say at least a week yeah so yeah you know that

24:19
sounds very familiar and so yeah that's just you know it's it's not like it's

24:24
just a a a momentary yeah yeah yeah yeah

24:30
it's kind of like the the gates open for a little bit and yeah you know come check it out yeah well the gates are

24:36
still open exactly yeah oh it's cool I mean it's you kind of touched on this

24:42
earlier um he doesn't he doesn't need this event right to reach us no but this

24:49
is a particular kind of Grace where he is allowing uh you know it to be very

24:55
visible yeah but he does the same gate open for that a period of time where you can

25:01
see his glory right sure personally right and that's that's how people come to Salvation and that's happening daily

25:09
around the planet and I think it's that's important to remember too that um

25:14
he came to save to seek and to save you know sure and uh that also reminds me of

25:21
um that verse about he's not slow concerning his promise about coming back

25:26
but he wants to give this is Justin's version maximum

25:31
opportunity to to come to him you know before his return you know yeah yeah so

25:38
I'm thinking about that with you as you were kind of uh you know recognizing those moments when you know you

25:45
experience that fullness of God and the The non- Conjuring what what what do those moments have in you know what

25:54
makes those moments for you in other words what do moments have in common as

25:59
you've experienced them other than the the lack of lights and can you

26:06
share well yes what makes them unique

26:12
is how present his his spirit is you know or he

26:20
is you know sure and it's all consuming to the point

26:26
where essentially life resets and that's why that's why I say they're personal

26:32
Revival moments right it's it's a reminder of like oh right this is what

26:39
life is yeah not all the other stuff the all the other stuff is meant to support this and is you know what I mean yeah

26:46
and it's basically um thinking about a child who is doing his own thing maybe

26:54
wandering towards something dangerous and a father you know coming over to the

27:00
child getting down on his level grabbing his two cheeks looking at him in the

27:06
eyes and saying listen son sure you know and it's kind of that kind of feeling

27:12
where I have no choice but to look into his eyes you know yeah I don't know it's

27:18
it's really hard to explain but um they're definitely like I said life resetting moments yeah

27:25
where those blips are like literally life-changing for

27:31
they um so I I have one example yeah that um had a pretty big impact which so

27:40
this is probably 8 to 10 years ago um I had a a friend acquaintance kind of

27:47
person that I respected in in my work Community who basically came out as an

27:53
atheist he basically kind of wrote his testimony right on a blog post about how

27:59
he became an atheist okay and he described an upbringing of church and different things and that thing shook me

28:08
in a way in a in a weird way um to where a lot of the questions he asked I'm like

28:14
yeah yeah what about that God why you know and just a lot of those thing you

28:21
know natural doubts that we have um and so I kind of had this I was wrestling

28:30
struggling with God about why you know I expect you to do these things so why don't you you should meet some of our

28:37
expectations why not you know sure and um yeah looking back it reminds me of uh

28:44
Jesus talking to the Pharisees saying you know you had Moses in front of you you had these miracles in front of you

28:50
and you still you know now you have the light of the world and you're blind to it you know it reminds me of that but

28:55
anyway back to the story um uh and I was just very just struggling

29:02
with doubt sure you know more than I ever have about salvation about God

29:07
about everything and yet I still was clinging you know it wasn't like I was given up it's just like I was

29:14
frustrated and it was like that for a couple weeks and yeah just wrestling mhm

29:21
and then there was a moment of surrender and

29:29
H still pretty

29:39
fresh yeah like I said life-changing right

29:45
mhm where I just said you know I give

29:52
up like I don't need these answers I need you you know mhm um with or without

30:00
him sure you know and that was not the moment yeah like he

30:07
let me live in that kind of give up surrender I would say for a few days and

30:13
so it was like I was expecting him to show up prove yourself sure and couple

30:19
weeks didn't happen I felt drier than ever you know yeah and then finally said

30:26
you know what you know given up like I'm not I'm not about this I'm not going to

30:31
force you to do something but I need you and it doesn't matter if you're going

30:36
to like show up in front of my face or not like I need you and I need the hope

30:43
that comes with you you know sure and again it wasn't right away whatever but

30:49
there was a few days later I remember how long where I was just sitting at my uh kitchen table in the

30:55
morning and don't remember what I was doing I think it I can't even remember

31:02
if I was reading my Bible or not you know like it was just like a peaceful warning and he just showed up oh wow and

31:10
I just was overwhelmed with his presence

31:16
[Music] yeah and yeah and it was a reset you know sure it

31:24
was a good father giving a good gift without saying without my

31:32
expectation you know sure saying I I want to give you what you want but

31:40
sometimes what you want isn't what you need sure right yeah and what I need he's always willing to give you what you

31:45
need yes yeah what I needed was to step into that Faith one more time what I

31:52
needed was to trust blindly and then he offered the good

31:58
gift of his presence of like and I can't explain it to you other than to say if

32:03
you experienced this you'd have no doubts sure it doesn't matter who you are yeah you cannot look away from that

32:11
you know yeah um and that doesn't mean this this lasts permanently the rest of

32:17
your life I'm just saying like in that moment you don't leave that moment thinking you know yeah uh it was

32:24
Supernatural in in my you know yeah yeah so that's that's an example where I mean

32:31
that was Revival for me that was you know and you know I was on life support

32:36
right and it was the yeah what do you call that the machine yeah the aid sure uh

32:45
defibrillator yeah automatic clear it was one of those moments where

32:51
he brought me back to life full you know heart pumping again back on track and

32:58
yeah yeah so like a personal Revival and again what's distinct about that

33:04
situation is nothing except his presence yeah there wasn't a catalyst there

33:09
wasn't a Conjuring there wasn't a in fact there was almost the opposite like I'm going to conjure and you're going to

33:16
you better show up and he didn't and I said fine you know yeah kind of thing I

33:21
don't know no thanks for sharing question was yeah no I just what those

33:26
moments had for you in common and I appreciate you every one of those moments had in common that father

33:33
grabbing my cheek kind of feeling like you won't see anything but me right now

33:39
and again that resetting feeling of like oh right yeah this is this is you this

33:45
is all about you this is you know and the next steps were very clear you know

33:53
like it's like how you imagine life should be if you just had full faith

34:00
like just knew without a doubt he he he loved you and he's going to take care of your every need the birds of the air the

34:07
flowers of the field that whole it's like if that world you imagine you want to live in when you hear those things

34:13
like man that would be nice sure when those moments happen it's like oh I can do that for a little bit like it's it's

34:20
that resetting to where it's just much easier to to deal with everything you

34:27
know yeah no doubt yeah and I like your analogy of the the father's hands on my

34:34
face type thing because I think you know it's look at me and I think you

34:42
know it's not a forceful thing but it's an opportunity to say

34:48
okay yeah you've looked at a lot of things you have we we need to recognize

34:54
you have some Idols MH whether that's consumer M whether that's you know individualism you know that kind of

35:02
thing it's like I'm here and you know all of these other things are going to

35:09
disappoint but I won't MH and that's not to say that you know people haven't been

35:17
disappointed by God don't get me wrong there well so I was just going to comment about that specific thing which

35:23
is Idols are essentially miniature Iz versions that we can understand better

35:30
of God right sure you know whether it's a physical Idol sitting on the Shelf at home or you build this version of what

35:37
you think God is and should be and that's the god you worship it's an idol

35:42
if if you're holding to some things that he's not you know exactly and I think that is what that grabbing of the face

35:49
says that's not who I am you know and it's an opportunity to go oh right I

35:56
have to Cast Away that Idol cuz like you said sometimes it's all kinds of it's easy to yeah anything to become an idol

36:04
but again sometimes we build our own Idol version of God that says you know

36:09
he'll show up when I call and he'll you know like a Genie in a Bottle and he's

36:14
he's obligated to me MH yep or any version of him that's just not accurate

36:20
you know or you know a common example when people lose faith is when

36:25
they expect them to show up to meet a certain need and he doesn't yes that's such a common place for Faith to go you

36:33
know for us to lose sight and and to and again that's an idol to for whatever

36:40
that that expectation we have if he doesn't meet it then we're misunderstanding who he is fact because

36:47
he never changes he's always good and but we don't you know it's like no I

36:54
believed you were good until now now I know you're not M you know MH and again

36:59
it's that idle version of him that we believed he looked like this he was shaped like that he fit into that box

37:05
and you know and he was predictable and I knew how he should work and it it all

37:10
fit into my mind's construct of what God should be the problem is if you can fit

37:16
him in your mind he's too small exactly you know yeah no doubt yeah I appreciate

37:23
you because you were uh reminding me when you were talking about that as far as that that Jonah you know when he's when he's down he

37:30
when he talks about being in the belly of the whale you know and the seaweed had wrapped around him and he basically

37:35
shares you know I have exchanged the blessings of God for worthless Idols you

37:41
know and and you know I think we contend to do that because what we want to say

37:48
God is isn't always who he is whether it's Prosperity Gospel or you know all

37:54
these other things that we kind of to hold God to or whether it's you know the

38:00
healing of a person a physical healing of a person you know and it doesn't happen I I agree with you 100% on that

38:08
from you know that's when the disappointment sets in and it's like okay God isn't good anymore mhm and yet

38:16
we have those moments when we come to the end of ourselves and we recognize

38:21
okay I wasn't necessarily seeing God accurately and he's willing to say okay

38:27
now I can show you you know a little bit of who I am I'll give you a glimpse of who

38:33
I am yeah you know yeah to to bring that peace right back

38:39
again yeah and hope and joy sure and purpose I

38:46
mean contentment essentially if God gives you a glimpse of

38:51
himself it resets all of those things and all the things you read in the Bible

38:57
yeah you know it's like they all come into back into view sure you know and

39:03
that's just how big he is you know yeah and uh I and and I just you know hope

39:11
and pray every one of our listeners has or will have an opportunity to experience that because there's just

39:18
nothing like it and so when you read books about faith leaders or you know

39:24
like different things where they just talk about how sweet he is and like

39:30
um I don't know like when you when there's a faith there that is unshakable

39:35
right sure when you read about some of those uh what's her name uh who wrote Hiding Place uh yeah I know who you're

39:42
talking about yeah oh man uh yeah all I can think of is Harriet beer

39:49
still but that's not her um it's the lady who's not here at beer sto she wrot the book a hiding place uh man I can't

39:57
uh well well it'll pop in her brain a little bit just just you wait but anyway she had you know she was in prison camps

40:05
during in Nazi Germany and all this stuff it'll come don't I I'm piing Bon

40:12
hoofer now and I know it's not but it's still a German it's also not Fanny Crosby which also came into my mind

40:17
let's just say all the names that are not correct I gotta get them out then that way the right one can come to Flo to the

40:24
surface but yes go ahead yeah but you know she her inner sister who she kind of

40:32
held up as like the example it's just really cool reading that book you think I thought you know just reading hearing

40:39
about that book all my life is going to be about just her incredible faith and really so much of the book was her

40:45
talking about I was hanging by a thread and half of that thread was my sister's Faith you know yeah and but they both

40:53
clearly had experienced this God you know the the showing up that said you

40:59
can't ignore me you know you I know you're in the worst place in in the planet in the worst situation and yet

41:07
you know you can't forsake me you can't leave me you know and there she even described like anger and different you

41:14
know like why would you let it be this way and all of course you know and yet

41:20
the inability to walk away in a in the that sounds bad but in this like hope

41:26
way that says I've experienced who you are you know sure um anyway so I was

41:33
just trying to say like these moments are I feel like what turns someone from

41:38
a casual believer to someone who I don't know different it's

41:44
transforming exactly yeah I think as you as you described you know when you think

41:49
about you know Faith leaders like that I believe you know I would say most if not

41:56
all have have come through that storm yeah type Dynamic that Jonah you know

42:04
yeah no no one else to depend on yeah and okay to the end of all of my

42:11
strength and the end of all of my resources and yet God was still faithful

42:17
yeah and I think you know yeah that's a that's a a huge part of that and just to

42:24
um clarify too kind of the the other side of that is what I just you know called a casual

42:32
believer or whatever there's nothing wrong with faith that isn't backed up by those moments that is what Jesus talked

42:39
about when he said blessed are the children let them come to me you know Faith like a child it's this idea that I

42:45
don't have that but I don't need it because I you know I have this childlike faith and I in other words

42:53
I Jesus would not um decre try that Faith sure he would hold it up as the

43:00
example and say you know this is this is the ideal to believe without sight sure

43:06
you know yeah but he's also a good father to say sometimes I know you need you need more I'm thankful for that cuz

43:13
what he does is he he you know opens the zipper of Heaven kind of lets it Shine

43:19
Down In This Very neoscope to to me or you or whatever and it's like oh yeah

43:25
right that Kingdom you know yes and uh yeah and that's again that's just a good

43:30
father saying you know and again we expect that like a Genie in a Bottle just you know I need that a shot of that

43:37
once in a while you know and get me back on track and you know that's not how he

43:42
operates he's not a genie but he's good either way he's good you know yeah yeah

43:50
and I I was uh I was thinking of the that the the movie um Lion witch the Wardrobe aan you know where talks about

43:57
you know he's uh at the end he's uh they were talking about he's good might know

44:04
but he's not safe he's not safe but he's good he's yeah something like that right

44:09
something to that effect it made me think of it yeah yeah but I still can't

44:14
think of her name that's okay you can probably uh I there you go I you probably I was surprised you didn't

44:21
Google it sooner but I mean I really thought I it would just pop it yeah I believe you and I actually was able to

44:28
shift away from it long enough to be able to allow it but hiding place by by

44:34
fill in the blank and and I know this is the this is the reality I know there are so many in

44:40
our audience you know listen it's like you got are you kidding me you guys couldn't think of her name I mean come

44:45
on they're screaming it practically they're trying to slap us through the speakers come on all right what's the

44:51
number that comes after nine uh 10 Cory tenb yeah there you go yeah I like to

44:58
say yeah yeah yeah yeah cuz I guess Corey I don't think of but yeah and then

45:05
the other um ten Boon like say it's not it's not common which means we should

45:11
have remembered and that's what and they that's the the connection with Bon hoofer though it was like a t you know T

45:17
Boon boner good but so yeah but thanks for

45:23
sharing along that line Justin appreciate that uh opportunity to get a get a greater glimpse of uh of Justin in

45:31
that process of the good father and that visual that's not all you see well no I'm just saying that visual of you know

45:38
the fact that God desires to you know kind of hold all of our faces in his

45:43
hand and say okay I realize you know you've looked to a lot of other things

45:51
to try and fill to try and avoid to try and you know

45:57
but hang on just just just look at me despite all of the other things that we

46:04
can be distracted by you know but yeah and you started this

46:11
conversation right some earlier you mentioned kind of the

46:16
prerequisite right you remember what you were saying about the position we needed to be in sure like confession and just

46:25
kind of that that aspect of recognizing yeah that I am yeah I think the word I

46:32
would use there is surrender oh sure right cuz confession

46:38
is u a catalyst yeah for surrender I hear you going to use that word right

46:44
now it accelerates our surrender right so's definitely a catalyst yeah for

46:50
surrender and surrender is I think a key oh sure and so m

46:57
I don't you know know who's listening what situation you're in but I definitely think there's people out

47:03
there who are saying that sounds amazing why doesn't he do that for me you know or whatever

47:10
or or you know I'm I'm really in need of something like that shot in the arm kind of thing and um I mean I I would say

47:19
start with confession sure start with the place of surrender yeah you know

47:25
yeah and um wrestle with him yeah like Jacob you know no doubt all night if you have to

47:32
two weeks if you have to yeah you know saying I want something from you and I'm going to wrestle till I get it you know

47:39
yeah and then still surrender doesn't neither of those things kind of go hand in hand and yet

47:45
they do because when you wrestle with God you will surrender there's no winning you

47:51
know right there's no winning until you give up yeah yeah and surrender yeah but

47:57
there's something in the contending as well you know oh no doubt no doubt yeah

48:04
yeah yeah so Embrace this opportunity for Revival because it's it's a it's a

48:10
real thing yes indeed we're seeing it um you know some people say it's not some

48:15
people whatever and I would just say Revival is always possible in any moment

48:21
you know and you just want to be there when he shows up yeah yeah

48:27
thanks for sharing Justin yeah thanks for bringing this up Mark not a problem good topic yes indeed that's how we see

48:37
[Music] it hey thank you for listening to our

48:44
podcast if you like how I see it please do all the things that podcasts tell you

48:50
to do subscribe rate review follow us uh

48:55
and or talk nicely about about us on social media if you want to reach out

49:00
the email is usow I it.click yep I said dot click as in c c k please

49:12
tell your friends about this show and we'll see you on the next one

49:18
[Music]