Do you tend to take yourself too seriously? Join us as we discuss the benefits of being able to laugh at ourselves. We explore how personality, pride, and life experience shape our perspectives. You’ll hear stories about the intensity that comes out while driving and trying new things. We share thoughts on self-awareness, patience, and adjusting expectations. Tune in as we challenge each other and you to consider taking ourselves a little less seriously.


Hey, I’m gonna say something say something I did good job.

You want me to say it again?

No, you could okay good deal glad to hear it Good morning, sir.

Good morning mark.

Good to see you Justin.

It’s good to see you.

Yeah This lovely setting yes, it’s a little bit darker a little bit darker a little bit rainy this morning I’m glad it’s not as humid as it was last night though.

Whoo Yeah, it felt like it was raining No, only it wasn’t yeah.

Yeah, that’s really humid, but that’s already – yeah, yeah It’s a question for you Yeah, yeah, you good.

Are you ready?

We’ll see.

We’ll see go ahead and take your sip of coffee now I’ll I’ll uh Fill the fill the fill the gap there for just a moment one in the chamber All right, let’s go What was the last time you laughed at yourself?

How long has it been if you will when what was the circumstance?

Actually, I can’t remember really yeah, I don’t think I laugh at myself very much.

Yeah, yeah, and I’m not I’m not saying that’s an indicator but I Think there’s something to be said for the ability to laugh at ourselves.

Yeah Yeah, I agree.


Yeah, I agree.

I can hear better now.


Yeah, I’m not saying me not doing it means I don’t think it’s good.

I just don’t recall.

Yeah, that’s fair enough.

I definitely that was one out of left field, that kind of thing.

What about you?

Let’s see.

I would say probably around last week in the process of mom’s death and that kind of thing, because it’s just, there’s probably a level of intensity and sometimes laughter is that way of coping for me with that.

And yet, I can admit in that dynamic that I’ll make a mistake or I’ll fall into a pattern, you know, in my family system.

And I know there was times when I’d say, “Ah, nice job.

” Or, you know, not necessarily, but it was to the point of recognizing that I had done something that I probably wouldn’t have otherwise done.

And I laughed at myself kind of in that process of being able to say, “Yeah, okay, that’s who you are.

” kind of thing.

And it’s just kind of been a, I guess, a real example, if you can give one, I’m trying to understand or try and picture, I’m trying to picture it.


Like in the in the process of having a conversation.

And you’re you’re explaining what you’re doing or you’re kind of here’s our al profits.


There are those in my family who might think that I’m fairly intense.


And maybe there’s those outside my family.

I don’t necessarily see myself as an intense person.



And I guess it depends on how you define intensity.

But yeah, yeah.


It is is.

I think there’s an aspect of intentionality that is intentional.


I would also call you engaged.


So if you put those together, I guess, you know, I could be intense.

One could call that intensity.



Or even a difficult or even disciplined.




I typically think of intensity.

that person’s intense is.

~ There’s a serious– – In your face.

~ Yes, like things are serious.

And I think there is that point where, and we’ve talked about that, I think I talked about that even in the parenting dynamic.

When we talked about parenting and the ability to kind of say, “Maybe in hindsight, maybe I shouldn’t have taken myself “so seriously at times as my role as a parent.

” Okay, so in that family dynamic, sometimes when I’m having these discussions, you know, I will find myself laughing based on the fact that, yeah, I do that.


You know, it’s, and when it’s being called out or addressed or I see myself doing that very same thing that we’ve kind of identified, yeah, I’ll laugh at myself.

Got you.

You know, just because I’ll just say, – Ha, yep, you did it again.

Not in a, you know, the meaning fashion, but just in a fashion that has an awareness.

And I kind of laugh at myself.

~ Yeah, that makes sense.

~ Does that make sense?

That’s kind of– – Yeah, yeah, yeah.

~ And I think, you know, I, in that process, you know, there can be an intensity.

And I’m willing to recognize for a lot of people, this seriousness or intensity or even maybe a perfection can be circumstantial.

‘Cause we talked about excellence and it’s kind of been out of that too that I’ve kind of had some conversations about, you know, when is it too much?

Like you would share it on your, when you’re coding.

Sometimes you can go so far in that desire for perfection that you don’t get anything done.

~ Yeah.

~ And so like, and it’s funny ’cause yesterday morning, I happened to be just driving down the road.

And you know, and there was a, it happened to be a woman, I’m not saying, but there was a lady, it was like right on my bumper.

It’s like, you know, and it’s like, wow, this is a little intense, granted 211 can get intense.

But it was like, I finally got to the point where I just kind of slowed up and waved her on by.

And you know, and she gave me this look and, you know, and not say that a guy couldn’t do that as well, or I haven’t, or that I haven’t done it.

It just happened to be.

And it made me think about, wow, you know, that was, that was pretty, she was pretty intense in that moment, pretty serious.

And that’s what I think.

(both laughing) Yeah.

And I think, you know, it’s like, there, of course, there’s that part of us when someone is being intense with towards us, we’ll say something to the effect of, well, maybe you should have left five minutes earlier and then you wouldn’t have to be so intense or so serious.

But you know, it kind of came to my mind as like, seriously?

~ Yeah.

~ You know?

~ Yeah.

~ It’s, you know.

So that’s kind of where that thought was coming from and I was thinking about it in the context of what makes that for us as individuals and how seriously, ’cause I honestly looked this up.

I looked up to see if there was a serious assessment.

~ Oh, nice.

~ If you could tell, I probably should have maybe– – This kind of ties into our swimming analogy too, a little bit maybe.

~ Maybe, maybe.


~ Yeah, but I looked it up and it was all about risk assessment and business stuff like that.

I probably, you and I’ve talked about it before, that you have a way of searching things you just put in two words, and it comes up what you want, and I put in the whole sentence, and it’s like, I get way over in the weeds.

But I couldn’t, yeah, I couldn’t necessarily find it, but it made me think about it as far as, okay, how seriously do we take ourselves, and what makes that difference?


So like everything you’d probably say, it’s a continuum, right?

~ There’s a, but the interesting part of it is, there’s probably a continuum.

And yeah, I would also say that I would be indifferent.

I might be in different spots on that continuum based on the circumstances that I’m in.

~ Yeah.

~ And I might even just be, it’s funny ’cause I could imagine or I could see it for myself and other individuals, even shifting dramatically on that.

~ Yeah.


Yeah, like that you make me think of the driving situation and when I’ve been in that situation rushing, right?

~ Sure.

~ And I was just talking to someone about the other day too.

And the thing is when we choose poorly, you know, we don’t leave on time.

~ Sure.

~ Right, whatever it is.

Our first thing is not like, well, I need to be humble and, you know, like, you know, get to work and apologize and just, I need to do better and, you know what I mean?

~ Sure.

~ We’re like, but I’m fine.

(laughs) And we get in the car and we go, and everyone else, you know, you’re getting out of my way.

If it wasn’t for you, I’d be perfectly fine citizen at work on time, but it’s all your fault.

Mark, if you didn’t have that trailer, then you wouldn’t be in my way.


Come on.

Why are you leaving on the road?


And driving is kind of this road situation is something that’s pretty universal, that we can kind of all snap into and go, yeah, I recognize that in myself.

And certainly in Oh, there’s this kind of anger and it’s outside.

It’s like, yeah, we get so serious in the car and what our expectations of those around us are.

It’s like, I don’t know, we turn into these monkey versions of ourselves that can’t be civilized, and extend that empathy to that person.

Well, maybe there’s an issue with their tires that they’re not willing to go beyond this speed.

It’s a safety thing or perhaps they’re not in a hurry ’cause they got up in time.


You know, whatever.

And I don’t know, I’ve, you know, me and a lot of the guys that I do accountability with.

(laughing) That’s like a common thing that we kind of joke where we, I guess that’s an example where we kind of laugh at ourselves.

We’ll kind of reveal some of this situations while driving that made us frustrated ’cause that’s one of the questions is talking about things that makes you angry or causes you to have a grudge or whatever, and so it’s like, that’s a common theme of just like, well, drivers some days, you know, and we’re able to kind of laugh at it a little bit because in that context, right, I would say we’re attempting to be the most polished version of ourselves, that’s why we’re even in the room doing that, you know?

~ Sure.

~ And we can look at that monkey version of ourselves just kind of chuckle.

Yeah, seriously.

Like, I did that.




So that’s a driving is just one of those things that can just instantly put us back into that, that monkey brain, you know, that that version of ourselves that we’re trying, I think most of us, a lot of us, hopefully listener, you are, you know, like trying to be this better version of yourself, you know, but it’s like, “Why don’t you get behind that driver’s seat?

” Well, my better self is left outside the door until I get back out, every attaches.

~ Hopefully.

~ Yeah, hopefully you’re right.

~ Yeah, but driving is not the only time where we’ll do something like that.

And I recognize in myself, especially, I would say early on in a marriage.

Man, this podcast makes me look like a real bad husband, – Oh, that’s okay.

Like whenever something would go wrong, if I couldn’t find an escape goat, I would go to Megan for some reason.

Be like, “Why’d you do whatever?

” It’s like, it’s like the driving thing.

It’s like, you didn’t do anything.

~ That was your default.

~ Yeah, exactly.

And I think when, honestly, when we feel guilt about our own actions causing us pain, we look for escape goats.

I think that’s a pretty common human trait.

~ Sure.

~ And so then we get so serious, right?

~ Yeah.

~ Because it’s like, well, if you wouldn’t know, that person wouldn’t know, it’s like, we’re trying to find a reason why we did it wrong.

It’s not because I did it wrong, it’s because the world is wrong, or you’re wrong.

~ If you hadn’t done that, that one thing.

~ Yes.

~ ‘Cause that one thing was the thing that sent me off.

~ Yeah.



So, I mean driving is a good example of that, but I feel like there’s many areas where we could be triggered into that if, you know, we let our monkey brain take over.


What do you think?

That’s where I was at and just kind of thinking about that in that context of, you know, this ability at times to take myself too seriously or in a, and granted, I was, as I was wrestling through thinking of, you know, I mean, granted, we could call it pride, I suppose, you know, that kind of thing.

But it just, it was that, that word serious that came to my mind as far as, okay, how often do I laugh at myself?

Do I take myself, you know, more seriously?

Oh, and another conversation reminded me of it was, the ability that I have to, how comfortable I am doing something new.

~ Okay, yeah.

~ Yeah, and the ability to laugh through it, or the opposite of that, like, super embarrassed.

~ Yeah, or I just don’t even do it.

Because I don’t want to look like I don’t have, you know, all the capabilities necessary.

I’m not, at times, I’m not even necessarily willing to learn.

~ Yeah.

~ ‘Cause whenever we’re learning something new, we wouldn’t, if there again, if I’m watching someone learn something new for the first time, I’m not gonna be very judgmental.

~ Right, expectations are pretty low.

~ Yes, but yet, if I’m a pretty serious person and I don’t do something well, I’m gonna start probably, that might be another time when I’m starting to shift on that continuum.

It’s like, I’m taking myself pretty seriously, so I’m not gonna laugh at myself.

And yet, have you ever played that the game speak out?

~ I don’t, that doesn’t sound familiar.

~ It’s where you basically take a little plastic cartridge and you put it in your mouth.

~ So it stretches your lips in your mouth.

So the ability to pronounce P’s and T’s and then you have these phrases you read.

And of course it doesn’t sound.

~ On a monopiah.

~ Not quite, but yes.

The enunciation isn’t there, but still in that process.

I do that with individuals just to kind of provoke this discomfort and the ability to say, okay, ’cause the second time around, it’s not as, I’ll ask, how did that feel?

You do that in concession.

(laughing) Especially with kids or something.

When they’re feeling this level, a heavier level of expectation.

~ Do you do it with them?

~ Oh yeah, oh yeah.

That’s probably another area.

~ Well, I’ll laugh at myself, you know?

‘Cause it is, you know, and then the cartoon.

~ I thought you just like to make them do it and laugh in their face.

~ Oh no, no, no.

You can’t say it at all.

But everybody gets a different phrase, you know, you read cards and so forth.

So yeah, I will do it with that.

~ Do you clean it between sessions?

~ Yes, I do.

There’s another story behind that.

(laughing) – Oh boy.

~ Yeah, hot water at the church.

You know, it just takes forever to get in.

So I’ll boil a pot of hot water, like I’m making coffee and it’s important to sing just to have hot water, but yeah.

I make sure they’re clean.

But it is one of those things, you know, it’s like as I have this high expectation or this ability to think that I shouldn’t make mistakes.

And then what do I do even in the context of making that mistake?

~ Yeah, yeah, that’s very.



(laughs) Yeah, I definitely can think of when I was, yeah, when I was younger, you know, I’ve talked about this before, I struggled a little bit with some self-esteem, self-confidence, that whole thing.

And it really was about don’t ever mess up.

Don’t ever mess up.

~ You messed up, what’s wrong with you?

Why would you mess up, you know, anger at myself?

So there was definitely, like when I was younger, I got mad at myself a lot because I embarrassed myself.

And then I’d be like, you jerk, you know?

~ Sure.

~ How would you do that to yourself, kind of thing?

And it was very much like what you’re saying about new things or things that I, you know, shouldn’t necessarily be amazing at, or even things I should be good at or whatever, supposedly and sometimes you make mistakes.

~ Yeah.

~ I did not have the ability to laugh at myself.

And I will say, honestly, the thing that kind of unlocked that in my brain to go, oh, sometimes I mess up and it’s okay.

~ Yeah.

~ Because I mess up sometimes.

I’m a human being and every other human being messes up the thing that kind of unlocked that and gave me a sense of freedom in that was my first time in Celebrate Recovery going through the steps studies.

When we started, you know, we were going, you kind of talk about things that you struggle with, things that mistakes you make, whatever.

And it’s like, you know, we’re all in this together and just here and you go around the room, everyone kind of answers questions, you go, oh, okay, so that person’s a human.

Oh, and that one’s a human.

And that one too.

Well, I guess I am too, so I’ll admit it.

And just like something unlocked and I just realized like, I’m gonna make mistakes still and it’ll be okay.

Like I can just own up to them and take myself less seriously.

I don’t think I got so far enough past that to where I could laugh at myself very often.

~ Sure.

~ I think I probably still take myself too seriously, but certainly there’s some grace there for myself.

But it also depends on the context too, like if the stakes are high or again, going back to the other thing I was saying, if I had made a mistake already to start me down the wrong path, and then I make another one that the stakes are higher and I get frustrated more easily.



So just generally becoming more responsible and making better choices has made a lot of that stuff easier because it’s not like I’m not looking for a scapegoat for my own stupid behavior.


but it’s a strong word because I think it’s a pretty common thing.

When you know, when you’re maturing is to not make wise choices because you don’t, you’re not quite convinced yet that it’s that that that’s yeah.



I get up early, but like I can do it.

It’s fine.

You know, and I know how to weave in and out of the traffic just right and get there on time.

It’s like you kind of have this invincible young person thing, Right.

And enough of those times of getting stuck behind, you know, Mark or whatever it is.

Or school buses this time of year.



School buses.



What are they doing on the road?

For crying out loud, we didn’t have them for three months, two months.

You know, now we got the- Who invited you to the party?


And there was certainly many times when I was in my teens rushing around that, just really close calls.

Oh, I sure.

Bad accident type stuff where it kind of shook me and I’m like, what are you stupid?

Like, why do you think you can do this?

And not with speeding ridiculous stuff.

Like, it was the metro area, the Twin Cities.

And I would be doing the through traffic, weaving in and out and flying past people.

And, you know, the right, the wrong person at the wrong time moves in the wrong lane without signaling.

It’s just like, I mean, We had a pretty significant event.

I wasn’t driving that time, my friend was driving and we ended up doing this whole like spin out thing on the freeway freaking cars.

I remember very, I have the image burned in my brain where we were doing like 90 while on the freeway and a car came in front of us.

So he slammed on the brakes and the right wheel locked up a little bit and the whole car started to shift to the right to where I’m the passenger seat I’m looking at the direction we were going out my passenger window at a 90 degree angle.

It was a little Honda Civic or whatever.

So like it didn’t roll thankfully or anything.

I mean, it could have, right?

Oh, sure.

But I remember doing that and then he kind of over corrected and we ended up doing that, you know, swinging back to the other direction.

And to the point where we, yeah, we finally slowed down, stopped and it’s like all the cars around just were stopped and slowed and it was this intense thing.

That was like one of those things just like, ew.

(laughing) Anyway.

~ Might be taking ourselves a little too serious.

Yeah, that invincibility was there.


~ Yeah.

That’s super man kind of, yeah.

~ Complex, if you will.

~ I guess, yeah.

~ Yeah.


That was a lot of story for, I don’t know what point, but.

~ Well, you were talking about – Traffic, decision, intensity.

Yeah, yeah, being young and thinking you don’t need to follow the conventional Sure wise routes.

Yeah as you get older you kind of go.

Yeah, probably should probably shouldn’t speed like that anymore And the reality two tickets later.

Yeah And the reality of it is you can do all that and it’s like those five people that you passed will be right behind you with it Yeah, stop like yeah, you know in that context, but yes Was that moment that thought if you speed right you can avoid that I’m just saying It’s getting don’t do I understand it’s out.

I understand that you were kidding That you were kidding in that moment.

I mean it was it was sort of this game where it’d be like How far ahead can you know like I wanted to know that?

The efforts I put in made a difference, you know, yeah, and yeah – Yeah.

And it’s funny how often those efforts– – I’m lacking it myself now, Mark.

~ Exactly.

~ It’s good.

~ Yes, yeah.

And it’s funny how often all of that effort can be negated almost to a certain point, when we’re really thinking we’re accomplishing something.

And I think it’s a valid point.

We’re thinking we’re accomplishing something huge and big and nobody’s ever done this before.

And yet the next time it’s like, oh, they’re right there.

~ Yeah, yeah.

~ You know, it’s that process of somebody, how many times would, let’s be honest, how many times do you get frustrated going behind somebody at 55 miles an hour?

~ Oh, every time.

(laughs) – Yeah.

I mean, so here’s the thing, we live in South Portland, you know, for most of our listeners, you’ll know what that means.

And there’s just a lot of retired people, a lot of tourists who are kind of craning their neck, looking at things and so you’re lucky when they go the speed limit sometimes.

~ Sure, valvorn.

So that, that really really brought me to me.

And I try, you know, that’s, again, that’s what we talk about in our little group.

It’s just like, you know, learn and have that patience, learn to leave on time.

~ You do this at the DMV, do you?

You have your accountability.

~ This is probably a good idea, obsessions.

(laughing) (laughing) – Yeah, but like you used to be able to buzz across town and Southport.

~ Right, sure.

~ Especially when people went back to school, you know, it’s just like, you can’t do it anymore.

Too many stoplights, too many people going five miles under this building.

You know, you just have to account for it and you’re planning and I think, you know, it takes a little bit of stubbornness saying, I can do it, you know, like, It should be this way, you know?

It shouldn’t be like that.


~ Yeah, but it is.

~ It is.

~ And then how do we adjust?

I think that’s the other part of it.

It’s like, are we able to say, okay, this is the way it is, not just in traffic, but in my ability to, you know, try something new, being able to extend to them myself, that it’s like, okay, it’s okay to make a mistake.

~ Yeah.

~ Yep.

~ So what would, if you, go ahead.

~ Well, earlier you’re talking about when you see it often, when people are learning new things, it kind of made me think of ultimate Frisbee, right?

When we have new people come out.

~ Sure.

~ And like they’ll see us playing wherever.

And I’ll just say this, like as you come in as a newcomer, you think Frisbee, I can throw Frisbee.

~ Sure.

~ And I can run, you know, like those are the two required skills, running and throwing Frisbee.

And catching, you know.

~ Yeah.

~ I can do those things and you think, I should be as good as those guys.

and immediately get out there and you’re trying to throw across the field, you know, just doing things, thinking that you can be that good or whatever.

~ Sure, so you can do it just like that.

~ Yeah, so sometimes you see people taking it very seriously, very frustrated that like, oh, I can’t believe I couldn’t get it to you, kind of thing, it’s like, well, yeah, it’s hard.

~ Exactly.

~ It takes work and skills and learning and practice and getting your throat swatted down 100 times and dropping 100, like it’s kind of demoralizing a little bit in the beginning ’cause you think it’s just a little frisbee.

Anyone can do that.

It’s like, you know, it takes that learning but you can see people, you can see that learning process, how that can kind of trigger different versions of being able to laugh at yourself.

And some people are really good at laughing at themselves as they start, you know.

And it’s almost like, all right, stop laughing now.

~ Yeah.

Take this a little more seriously, please.

(laughing) – Yes.

~ Right?

~ Yeah, oh yeah.

~ You can’t see that spectrum.

~ Oh yeah, and that would be one area where I would admit I’d probably take myself a little too seriously at times.

~ Very intense, Mark.

~ I probably am.

I probably am.

~ And I’m like pot calling.

~ Well, that’s okay.

I’m good admit that I am.

And I’ll admit part of that is I won’t necessarily try.

I haven’t tried to even throw the hammer yet or anything that’s upside down.

I’m pretty much a short distance straightforward ’cause I can admit, I can’t, I use that word, but I just don’t have the ability to throw it as far as some other people.

It’s not a matter of learning, it’s just a matter of, okay, I’m at this age and I’m just not gonna be able throw at like a 30 year old.

I got you.

You follow me or a 40 year old, that kind of thing.

It’s just but yeah.

So yeah, you can definitely tell those 30 year olds.




And it’s just, you know, they can throw at the distances.


It’s like, no, Joseph probably can throw just about as far as I can.

And he’s coming up, you know, that kind of thing.

So yeah, that’s, that’s something as you’re talking about.

It makes me think about the fact that yeah, I’m probably not even trying at the level that I could try to maybe do a different throw.

I’ll curve it every now, but it’s going to be a pretty straightforward throw.

I’m not going to do a forehand or anything like that just yet.

But yeah, that’s probably an area where I’m taking myself too seriously.

And I’m certainly not necessarily laughing at myself when I make that wrong throw, because I’m bringing that intensity, that level of competition.


So sports is another one.

Sports is another one.


Kind of bring out that monkey brain a little bit.


I think I’m speaking for myself anyway.

We’re, you know, and I think that’s where I almost want to come back to in some ways.

What would you, what would you, how would you describe that character?

If I may say a character flaw that puts us in the, as you call it, monkey brain, you know, where we become reactive, what would you, how would you describe that character dynamic?

What word would you use?

I have one that’s coming to my mind, but I just was curious.

So I I mean, you just said the word reactives.

And I can’t get my brain off that word.

But that’s a good one.


I think I also want to think defensive, just like, yeah.


That’s what I got.

I guess.

And I think that’s that was the funny part because it’s like, how would you describe that feeling, that circumstance in one word?

The one that kind of came to mind for me, it was maybe a little more pride.


Because it is, you know, that that thing that kind of is underlying.


I don’t want people to think that I’m not that at the level.


You follow me?



And I think that can also that pride can also keep me from trying something new because, you know, or, or, or laughing at myself here again, not going too far because I think we can just laugh at everything and then it doesn’t seem like to other people that we are really even trying.

Well, probably you would probably agree.

Probably doesn’t matter what other people think, but a lot of times it is an indicator that I’m not really willing.

It’s the opposite version of I don’t want to start.

It’s kind of like I don’t want to try.


I’m just going to laugh through it and you get what you get.

And it’s like, well, you could try.


So that kind of thing.

And I think there is that part of us that might even be able to– that person that might laugh at themselves, we might even be able to be judgmental and say they’re not even trying.

When they may be trying to the degree that they can, but they’re just not taking it as seriously as we would like them to.

I’m thinking back more to the sports analogy.

~ Megan’s really good about that.

Not taking herself too seriously.

~ Yeah.

~ How do you notice that in her?

~ Sometimes she gets that from kneeling.

Why aren’t you trying?

You know, kind of thing.

How do you I’m trying?

You know, it’s like, oh, sorry.

~ Yeah, and then when Kelly gets there, the two of them, man, it’s like, they get laughing at themselves a lot.

~ Sure.

~ To the point where it’s like, all right.

But they do try, it’s just like, there’s this connection that says, if you’re laughing at yourself, you’re not trying.

Because I do think that is a common defense mechanism to try and get whatever, but that’s not always the case.

I think that’s a healthy way to be.

~ Sure.

Yeah, I would think so.

granted, you know, they’re again on that continuum of how often and and just so we’re clear, like Megan’s got it right in the terms of like frisbee where she’ll laugh at herself, she’ll have a good time and sometimes like you described like, well, not something a lot of times I’m I’m intense, right?

So it’s like, when we leave, it’s I’m kind of back into my chill zone, but like while we’re playing its intenseness, like you want to in and I’d much rather be like her and I continue to try to play her but it’s hard.



And it brings to mind even the personality dynamics.

Yeah, for sure.

You know, that are involved with that process.

I’m sure as I was looking up assessments, personality parts came in divine.

~ Of course, yeah.

~ And the whole, what’s the, not Nick Ningma, what’s the Enneagram?

~ Enneagram.

~ Yeah, the whole Enneagram, it’s like I could have taken an Enneagram test five times in that process of looking for an assessment.

~ Yeah.

~ Yeah.

It was just interesting to think about how that comes into play.

‘Cause I was thinking about, I shifted back to Enneagram.

But were you three?

~ Four or one?

~ Four one, okay.

~ Wait, no, three one, sorry.

~ Okay, three is the like a cheaper type thing.

~ Yeah, yeah.

~ And one’s perfectionist.

~ Yeah.

~ Yeah.

~ Not a good mix.

(laughing) – That’ll point.

But yeah, and I think there again, I think that becomes a part of personality ’cause the perfectionist has a difficult time making mistakes.

~ Lapping in themselves.

~ Yeah, yeah, yeah.

~ Yeah, exactly.

They’re gonna take things a little more seriously because of that desire to What about you?

What was here?

I’m a three also.


I’m a three also I really appreciate the the help you gave me and redefining what that three was Yeah, cuz it was it some call it a performer.


You know which seemed like you know You’re just looking to perform, but it is a matter of you know kind of achieving in a sense of accomplishing right, but yeah, maybe even at times Being able to laugh at yourself the fact that you’re able to accomplish learning.

Yeah, even in the midst of mistakes.


So yeah Yeah, I think the three one combo and never really thought about that does make sense why it is hard for me to Appet myself and also why I would say You know, I do feel like it was such a good achievement to kind of learn to be okay with missing up.

And it’s still not easy for me.

It’s a fight, you know.

But you bring up personalities.

And like whatever Megan’s personality is, I would say probably more geared towards being able to not be so serious.


And you know, I think sometimes we go, well, that’s her category and I’m this category.

So that’s what it is.

But like this thing, like taking yourself too seriously, being able to laugh at yourself, it doesn’t matter your personality.

This is something to work at, to try and get better at.

So wherever you are on that scale or that continuum, whatever your personality says you are, doesn’t mean you can’t go from where you are.

~ That’s exactly right.

~ To a better place in that spectrum.

~ And being able to recognize there’s gonna be circumstances that I can work on individually as well.

To be able to say, okay, yeah, I may not just take up piano for the sake of learning something new, but I can recognize when I am driving from point A to point B, I can leave just a little earlier and I can leave myself some time to be able to say, hey, yeah, I don’t have to be that aggressive in the process of daily life.

~ Yeah.

~ Yeah, so you can take this and apply it.

~ Yeah.

~ Like to be in the eight to specific area and see if it fills up a little bit.

~ Yeah, and I would think about it in that context of, you know, from around, am I able to laugh at myself to a certain degree or when do I notice that I take myself maybe a little too seriously?

~ Yeah.

~ ‘Cause I would say we all have that in different ways and for most of us, one of those areas might be driving.

~ Yeah.

(laughs) – Yeah, yeah, it’s probably one of the more universal connections.

~ Sure.


So that’s how I see it.