0:04
[Music] go nice that helps me align the tracks

0:11
that's I I believe you I'm wake up I'm all for it go I thought we were

0:17
breaking there was a play and I missed it that's right no no plays no plays no

0:24
plays how are you m I am well thanks and you I am well as well glad to hear it

0:31
mhm yes so what's the status of your kingdom this morning it's a mighty but small

0:39
[Laughter]

0:44
[Music]

0:50
one welcome to how I see it with me Mark Pratt and Justin Sternberg this is a

0:57
podcast that works to counter cultural polarization through thoughtful

1:03
[Music] conversations yeah so how's that for a

1:10
transition that's uh that's I'll give it a c C+ yeah it wasn't much of a transition it was something it was quick

1:17
yeah uh yeah we're talking we're talking about the kingdom today um and what does

1:22
that mean for I mean really Believers people who um are trying to live for

1:30
for for for the kingdom of God or you know there's so many ways we say that living for God is just an example that

1:37
people say or you know being a light on the hill salt to the Earth those kinds

1:43
of things there's lots of metaphors that the Bible uses um for this but um

1:49
uniquely we're going to speak of the idea of the Kingdom his kingdom and you

1:54
know other ones right sure um think on that and when you think of

2:01
his kingdom our kingdom how often would you say you

2:08
reflect on yourself whether you're part of a

2:13
kingdom or in your own realm how often do you

2:19
reflect on that for you personally I I mean I feel like uh I

2:26
would say some somewhat often but I feel like it comes up in my mind a lot when we do this podcast and I feel like we've

2:34
even referenced that what speaking of that we forgot to

2:39
pray this morning but that's yeah

2:45
yeah but I guess that's the part that comes to my mind is how often do we

2:52
actually think about ourselves as being part of an operational

2:58
Kingdom with a king with you know us being servants and that it's just it's just a thought that

3:04
crosses my mind in that process because I think we can lose sight yeah of that I

3:11
know I can excuse me I can lose sight of that at times and recognize that okay yeah this

3:19
this is a a unique thought yeah I yeah

3:25
that's a good question I'd like to turn back to you like do you is this a

3:30
personal point of um you know devotion right like kind of a thought that comes to mind for you and what kinds of things

3:38
trigger trigger those thoughts for you I think I mean for

3:45
me definitely in the morning I am aware that I want to start

3:51
the day if if I'm recognizing that I'm a servant of God in this greater Kingdom

3:58
for his good there is that part of me that seeks to spend time with him each

4:03
morning in such a way that seeks the direction for his life and sometimes I'll go so far as to you know write that

4:11
down in my journal that you know your king your you you reign in my personal

4:16
life today you're King I desire to do what you would have me to do and that's a part of my you know kind of daily

4:24
morning routine that tries to keep that perspective in mind but

4:31
I'll I'll admit I I don't I'm not well I'm not I was going to say I'm not

4:36
able as of yet I'm not always willing to hold on to that throughout the entire

4:44
day yeah and I think you know that's that's the part that I think is and and

4:50
I think it's going to be different for everyone cuz some people if I may say I

4:55
mean of of course some people aren't even going to acknowledge there is such a thing right as the spiritual realm

5:03
this Kingdom but for me personally I recognize it it's a matter of how I go

5:09
about holding on to it or I go about

5:16
recognizing his kingdom versus the kingdom that I desire to build here on earthh which I believe you know what we

5:22
do here on Earth can have great impact on the greater kingdom of God

5:30
but it's just it's just a I will call it a wrestling if you will that I you know

5:37
fall in and out of throughout the process of a day and depending on how busy my day is depending on where I'm at

5:44
in my day you know where I'm working what I'm doing I think that it makes it

5:50
easier or harder based on my circumstances what about you yeah that

5:55
makes sense I I think yeah similarly for me in the sense that when it comes to

6:03
um acknowledging and recognizing that a lot of my prayers are selfish prayers and ultimately I I want what's right for

6:11
the kingdom versus my kingdom or whatever so that that's I think that's a pretty common theme uh for me uh in in

6:20
the quiet time that I have um I also think it makes me think a lot about

6:26
quote unquote celebrities Christian celebrities even and um I I recently

6:33
listened to the fall of Mars Hill podcast which just a really excellent podcast kind of talking about the whole

6:39
Mars Hill thing and um Mark Driscoll's kind of influence over just so many

6:47
people and a lot of what he did he did did in the name of God's Kingdom right

6:54
okay sure and there was a lot of Fallout and a lot of pain and I also you know I

7:00
look at that whole situation from you know the opposite Coast a decade later whatever a

7:07
different perspective and just say like I think God uses INF you know fallible

7:12
people to do his infallible work sure and so I do see his kingdom was grown

7:18
through that movement and there's there's undeniable proof of that I also see a lot of Fallout and a lot of pain

7:24
and damage and the truth is had God

7:30
um brought some of those people to a different Church let's say the same number of people were brought into his

7:37
kingdom or became aware of his kingdom or you know decided to finally start doing something about his kingdom right

7:44
through 50 different churches instead of the one um I I kind of wonder how many of

7:51
them would have Fallout at this point anyway because we're human and every

7:57
institution is full of humans and and the church is uh a non-negotiable in

8:05
God's kingdom and yet it is full of valuable people messing up all the time and what the Bible says is that he's

8:12
going to maintain his church through all of history because if he didn't mhm we

8:17
would destroy it we've tried so many times right like we've we've built monstrosities we call church and then

8:24
they fall apart and a new generation comes in and replaces it you think of Martin Luther you think of about you

8:30
know the Reformation that whole thing you think about even when the Catholic church was built in the beginning right that was kind of the initial like growth

8:37
of a big version of the church right the kingdom um and you think about like the

8:42
various denominations that have come out over time as they say you know what the the churches that exist are not you know

8:49
speaking to this specific thing well enough so we need to start a new church that focuses on that that tenant

8:56
whatever that is right so baptism for apst or whatever and there there other things um L alone the tendency to go to

9:04
a non-denominational that tends to throw all of that away not away but you know

9:10
desire to disregard much of that in such a way that says okay yeah we don't want

9:15
to be about that one thing quite so much yeah yeah yep and I would think most non

9:23
denominational churches would say no we are about the one thing that matters right like we're getting back to the

9:29
Core of what matters now every nomin non

9:34
denominational church has its own flavor and its own bent and has its own specific you know missions and all that

9:41
and so they do focus on things specifically whether whether it's part of their Creed or not um but yeah

9:49
thinking of all of those things in Mark Driscoll it just gets a little fuzzy in

9:54
terms of it's and then you think about the verses that talk about stewardship right okay and there's this Parable that

10:02
Jesus tells where you know the master leaves a sum of money in three different servant hands right sure and he goes

10:09
away for a period of time several years y then comes back and says okay what' you do with the money I gave you and one

10:16
servant said well I buried it so no one could steal it and here it is right back to you you know and the next one said

10:22
well I I get I risk a little bit and I I basically doubled your money you know

10:28
and the third one said well I what is it 10x 5x something like that his money and

10:33
of course the reward was for the the greater risk and the one that simply buried it out of fear was essentially

10:42
you know bashed for it you know like uh punished yeah and so there's this idea

10:48
in in the Bible that we are meant to to take what he's given us the talents I

10:53
think it's it's kind of interesting how the word right kind of La out over

11:00
history where talents in the Bible was a literal form of currency sure back in I

11:06
guess maybe King James time I don't know a while ago or yeah at some point there

11:11
was a word called talents used for a sum of money like a shekele or any other form of currency sure but it's it's

11:18
interesting how you know over the years in English talents Al also represents our talents AB our abilities yeah and so

11:26
that metaphor just really works nicely for people English speakers right it's like oh talents yeah we're not supposed

11:33
to waste our talents you know we're not supposed to bury them we're supposed to use them and then then you know leverage

11:38
them and um and I think that I guess wrapping it all back into the personal

11:43
Kingdom I think there's an aspect to taking what he's given us and

11:49
leveraging it um the key in that story was one was afraid and didn't do

11:56
anything with it and the others you know doubled or tripled or whatever mhm but

12:01
they did it to double his money not not to not to somehow skim off the top or

12:07
build their personal kingdom was about I want to do with my Master's money what

12:13
is best for him sure you know and so I think it it can be fuzzy but I don't

12:18
think it has to be so help me understand that in our in our modern day dynamic as

12:24
you see investing not in a well investing your

12:30
as you look at investing your talents yeah where where would you say

12:35
if you if I might where is that line drawn for you personally as far as

12:40
leverage we can think of Leverage as a as the ability to lift something we wouldn't be able to lift by ourselves

12:48
but then we can also I think leveraging can almost have a negative connotation

12:53
yeah depending on almost a use of yeah where would you say that line is drawn

13:00
how do you draw that line personally in that leveraging

13:05
Dynamic well I think it kind of comes back to where we started which was what do you do to remember the kingdom Mark

13:13
and what do I you know I would say if if that thought rarely crosses your

13:19
mind there's you know or my mind there's a chance I'm not I'm kind of missing that um and probably leveraging what

13:27
he's given me for my own kingdom you know is that fair I don't

13:32
know um but as far as where do you draw the line because well I'm thinking of

13:40
the mar Driscoll type Dynamic how do how what what is to far

13:46
in other words I I recognize we're fallible and so therefore

13:52
um I I think of it in a in a context of zeal a person can be so so zealous that

14:00
they lose sight of how

14:06
their desire tends to minimize the value of

14:14
people and I'm not sure that's part of that's a that's a healthy part of God's

14:20
kingdom but yet I think we can get so zealous at times that we lose sight of

14:26
that I I even think of Paul you know and his you know his his um not not

14:36
consuming but you know his inti his transformation he said you know

14:41
basically that persecuting that's the word I was looking for persecuting you know early Christians was something he

14:48
did zealously mhm and yet he W kingom yes yes for his original Viewpoint of

14:57
Kingdom mhm and and then when his transformation when he was blinded that kind of thing by the light you know that

15:04
that transformed and I'm just I guess that's where I'm thinking of it it's like okay I think for me it does come

15:12
down to a daily reflection because I can get I can admit

15:18
I can get caught up in building my kingdom here on Earth and I'm not saying

15:25
people who are more spiritual than I can't necessarily build their Kingdom on

15:30
Earth in a way that completely glorifies God's kingdom but I think there are in

15:36
our humanness that's something we need to be mindful of and and I guess that's

15:42
where I'm and I I'm I'm just thinking about it because at times we even if we

15:47
look back at David he built a kingdom but then he went to the point of his

15:53
kingdom he grew his kingdom to the point that it was about his comfort

15:59
he no was no longer working in service and therefore it was another member of

16:06
his kingdom B Sheba if you will is in his moment of hey I need to take a break

16:12
I've built this Kingdom I'm going to stay back and just kind of enjoy

16:17
this and that was part of his downfall where B Sheba was concerned MH you know

16:23
and I guess that's where I'm I'm thinking about it to serve the kingdom well from from a lifetime perspective

16:31
mhm and I think even as Americans we can definitely come into this okay I've been given these talents in a

16:40
in a uh work environment occupationally and but yet at times my

16:46
goal can be to reach retirement and I'm going to take a break and I think at times we can lose

16:54
influence at that point because it's about okay I've achieved it or the or

16:59
even the man in the Bible who talks about the building a bigger barn and I guess that's the kind of

17:06
stuff that's coming to my mind is how do we continue to create or build God's

17:14
kingdom with God's help I think that's a part of it too that it's not us doing it

17:20
alone for our Glory yeah and yet I think in our humanness we can get caught up in

17:28
that Comfort if you will that's just a that's as we're as we're walking through this

17:35
this morning I guess that's a little bit of now you can bring it back and bring some clarity to that as I've just kind

17:40
of well you definitely mean think of a couple things but the the bigger Barn thing that Parable is I'm going to try

17:48
and paraphrase it you correct me or I get it wrong but essentially I think it's this idea that this this man was

17:54
given some talents in in the terms of some uh assets maybe it was he inherited

17:59
some good assets I don't know maybe he's just a good shrewd businessman or whatever sure and he got to the point where he said man this little kingdom

18:05
I'm building is working out pretty well what I need to do next is build this really big Storehouse to store all my

18:10
goodies and um and you think that doesn't sound like a bad thing like you

18:16
know save you know there's a those are a lot there's a lot of principles in there that I think get you know can get

18:22
confused with other good principles but essentially what I think the parable is

18:27
talking about is to say that I'm going to build my kingdom and God you you do your thing I'm going to do my thing and

18:33
essentially saying I'm going to do this regardless of whatever God's plans are and he said good luck with that you know

18:39
essentially like we don't have that option to disregard God's kingdom

18:45
because his over supersedes ours and if you do things without regard for his

18:51
kingdom there's a you know very good chance that you'll start becoming misaligned in the principles of his hit

18:59
truth will start working against you um that was kind of my take of that sure

19:05
fawell is yeah no that's that yeah it's to the point of basically okay I've I

19:11
I'll say I've from that person's Viewpoint I've built this up I'm going to build the next one even bigger and

19:17
then I'll just be able to kick back yeah and enjoy the rest of my

19:23
life yeah and the other thing I was thinking about too is you were saying hi do you

19:30
H how do you keep from going over the line and you know basically I think one thing that is

19:37
comforting for me is that there is no line that will mess up God's kingdom okay you know yeah

19:45
in that you know you can look at this whole Mark Driscoll and Mars Hill thing and go well clearly there is because

19:52
that you know disenfranchise a lot of people so the word Decon deconstructing

19:57
our faith you know that's that that kind of came out of that movement is this idea of getting back to the fundamentals

20:04
Andor discarding it right um and so I I definitely think there again there's

20:09
some Fallout there but I also believe that a there was a big very

20:16
large move of God where people came to him through the ministries of that church and B The Fallout is not the end

20:23
of the story sure and you know I've been involved in celebrate recovery for so

20:28
many years and hearing testimony after testimony you know every other week

20:33
right just so many opportunity seeing so many

20:38
opportunities where God turned you know ashes into Beauty and fall out into you

20:46
know a new structure a new thing you know what I mean and so I I guess I'm

20:51
not worried about that part and some people might be like what's wrong with you or whatever I'm just saying like

20:57
I've I've seen enough proof proof to know that God can use the garbage stuff

21:02
to then uh what we call garbage yeah yeah yeah to to turn into Beauty and so

21:08
MH um so all that being said like in terms of how do I not cross the line and

21:14
mess up his kingdom I'm guess I'm I'm not worried about messing up his kingdom I'm just worried about missing the boat

21:19
sure you know what I mean like I want to be part of that Kingdom because that is the forever Kingdom that's you know and

21:26
that's what he's he's called us to we are citizens of that Kingdom uh if I go

21:31
off and do my own thing build my storehouses and retire like that boat's going to keep moving and I won't be on

21:37
it now I don't think that translates into you know Salvation and I lost my

21:43
salvation and I won't make it to Heaven I think it just kind of Miss it's like burying the the talents he gave me and

21:49
sitting on them and versus using the The Leverage that he's

21:54
given me um and I guess that's where I'm coming from I'm not you know for for me

22:00
I guess if I was answering my own question on the line I think there would be an aspect of sensitivity to that yeah

22:08
being aware that it could happen that it could happen that it's a possibility and that you know because I I think when I

22:16
reflect on you know my kingdom and I I think at times I would dare say my

22:23
kingdom can be in conflict with God's kingdom even if I don't necessarily

22:29
recognize it because I think when I think about God and his kingdom he's a

22:36
good King and therefore what he provides is

22:41
sufficient for me daily you follow me in that context and I think our when when

22:48
my mind starts shifting I start thinking about my

22:54
provision providing for myself for years to come kind of like the guy with the

23:00
barn mhm it's about self-sufficiency at that point versus

23:06
preservation yes and I'm and I'm starting to think about okay the

23:11
obstacles in life and recognizing okay how can I insulate myself from those

23:18
things and how can I predict the market if you will in such a way that I can

23:24
just continue to maintain this lifestyle in indefinitely yeah until I run out of

23:31
energy yeah and I I think that's where you know I guess that's where I would use that line Dynamic is where does that

23:39
shift how does that trans how does that become part of my thinking that I

23:47
transition from this okay God every day is your bread this given to me you know

23:54
to this point of okay no God you you go over there I got this from here and I

23:59
can provide myself indefinitely and you just take care of other people not that

24:04
I would want to go there but you understand I can I guess I see that as a

24:10
possibility MH and I want to be mindful of that yeah well even in that Parable I

24:15
think he provides an answer after right he said when you make these plans say if

24:22
the Lord Wills right something like that that's I think that's more of the uh I'm

24:28
thinking of the the is it Peter or Timothy where it's talking about go here and make some money and that's where it

24:36
says and the next part is no you should say if it's the Lord's will we'll go

24:42
here and we'll do this because what is your life but a vapor I think it's first Peter 4:17 in that range don't don't

24:49
quote me on that but it's you know what who are you and what is your life you're but a vapor and it's the person that

24:56
doesn't do what he knows he should do that is sin you follow me and I think

25:02
the parable is about you know it it kind of ends in that part you fool you mhm

25:08
you know you're you think you know and you but your very life may be taken from

25:15
you tomorrow got yeah and it's like it's still kind of that Vapor Dynamic but

25:21
yeah it's I think those are a little bit separate from my perspective yeah I couldn't remember but yeah thank you

25:28
yeah the and if there's any fact Checkers listening fix all of our Bible references but the principles are there

25:35
right in the this idea that yes you know planning your own kingdom is

25:41
is not guaranteed to succeed it's also not guaranteed to fail and that's not what the point of the parable was it was

25:49
just separ separation from you know what he's doing is um the other thing I was

25:56
thinking about too with the mark driscal thing um like I think it was it

26:02
was I want to say it was Paul okay and they said you know the these other people are preaching in jesus' name is

26:11
what should we do about them he said well if they're you know for us or not against us right that kind of idea MH um

26:18
and is he wasn't willing to declassify them to say no they're not they're not

26:25
acceptable preachers of the Gospel because X Y or Z he said well they they

26:30
preaching for Jesus okay then then they're okay by me sure and uh it's cool to kind of see that example right in the

26:37
Bible in the sense to recognize that Mark Driscoll said and did a ton of

26:42
things wrong but there's also a lot of people that heard the gospel and came to to Jesus because of his preaching

26:51
and again there's some Fallout there but I think that the number of souls that

26:56
will go to heaven as a result of that that um Ministry um you know I don't know about the UN

27:04
justifying the means but I certainly am glad that those Souls have an eternal destination in heaven versus the

27:11
alternative right yeah and I and I think about it in that in the context you shared you know I think it was the

27:16
disciples as they were you know these people are going about doing this you know and and using your kind of your

27:24
name you know and I think unfortunately in our humanness we can think of the

27:30
Kingdom in a very territorial way to the point that I'm doing the real

27:37
work for God's kingdom and what you're doing isn't isn't part of it but I think

27:43
from my per my true perspective is what you do for the kingdom is what God's

27:48
calling you to do and I think you need to be about that even if it's different than the the talents that I've been

27:55
given to use in such a way and I and and I think you know that's what makes us Ministers of the Gospel to a certain

28:02
degree is when we all take our talents in all of our occupational Dynamics and

28:09
we use that to glorify the kingdom because I think we can be kind of

28:14
territorial or or even hierarchical if you will that what I'm doing is more important than what you're doing because

28:20
we want to sit next to Jesus is it the brothers John and yeah

28:26
yeah yeah the two brothers there the sons of zebede mom's like can we get these guys to sit next to you in heaven

28:33
yeah one at your right and one your left we're all kind of doing that I think at times yeah and I and I like uh I was

28:40
thinking about it a little more as you uh you mentioned the um the fear

28:47
Dynamic um and where I was asking about the line and I think that is a that is

28:54
connected because I think we can be so fearful about like the like the Lesser servant

29:03
who was given one Talent we just take it and say and bury it and I think there is

29:09
something to be said for you know what is it it's a bold prayers honor God and

29:15
God honors bold prayers you know that aspect of him knowing our

29:22
heart in this process of going forward and yet we we aren't going to do it

29:29
perfectly right and yet I don't believe he's calling us to do it perfectly he's

29:35
just calling us to go forward in faith recognizing that yeah there will be I

29:42
believe we all have our Mark Driscoll moments if you will the thing that made Mars Hill what it was was because it was

29:49
such a large Kingdom if you will and and it and that Drew attention you know in

29:57
our current cultural Marketplace large Kingdom with the loud King yes yes and I

30:05
and I think you know there again kind of like you said about the 50 churches I

30:10
think that happens on a smaller scale quite often yeah and we're just

30:17
unaware of it a very common uh kind of TR back historical trauma for

30:27
a lot of Believers has to do with trauma in the church and different things that that's not uncommon right um it's more

30:35
common it's painfully common right where people were hurt in the church and as a

30:41
result carry around wounds the rest of their life um because we're just stinking human and we mess up and like

30:49
you said we're about doing our part for the kingdom and sometimes we're we're trying to do our part on smashing others

30:56
out of the way and sometimes like you said critiquing you know we're we're on both sides of the wall building the wall

31:03
of the kingdom and we point at the other one go look at him yeah he doesn't know how to build a wall he's putting on the

31:09
whatever wrong and instead of doing our job and focusing on that we're you know tearing down others or comparing or or

31:18
competition like oh he he's pretty quick at building the wall I think I can go build a little bit quicker a little bit

31:23
better and I think the master will approve of mine a little bit better even no this is okay I think I can do you

31:29
know like we're just we do that we're we're humans is there a competition in the Kingdom well I would say no but I

31:37
definitely think we feel that um because we bring it's our flesh right our flesh

31:43
is the thing that kind of makes the kingdom messy yeah the the kingdom as it

31:49
is on this Earth which is why Jesus said you should pray that the king this Earth will be like the Kingdom in Heaven right

31:55
like as things are in heaven that they'll be that on Earth in other words our flesh is settled right and yeah and

32:02
I think it is that I know it's not first P I know that verse in First Peter so I

32:08
know the other one wasn't first Peter but still that you know that humbling of ourselves is what minimizes our an our

32:16
or makes our ability to cast our anxieties and I think competition becomes a part of that yeah anxiety it's

32:23
like am I doing it as good as someone else but when I'm able to humble myself

32:29
to a certain degree and recognize this isn't about my kingdom it's about God's

32:35
kingdom and what you're doing is just as valuable as what I'm doing that takes

32:42
away that anxiety yeah and I think that's an important part when and that's

32:47
I guess where I'm asking for is I think we can get so caught up in

32:53
productivity from our perspective and we lose and we can be more about the 99

33:00
than the one mhm you follow me it's it's more the numbers the numbers become so

33:07
important when we get caught up in the competition Dynamic you no that's a

33:14
great point in obviously the parable about Jesus going to get the the one and leaving the

33:21
99 shows that he cares about the individual yeah you know if not more as

33:28
much as the collective right yeah and I think the idea there is that the collective will take care of itself you

33:35
know obviously in the spiritual realm God's got that and the one like sure he both

33:42
he has all power but he's yeah I think just his his display

33:49
of care for the individual is I think meant to be a model with kind of to your

33:54
point like we're not meant to be hurting the one in order to you know

34:00
gain the 99 but I kind of want to so if you don't mind I kind of want to transition this from this idea of church

34:09
ministry uh Theology and you know people in in churches uh you know into like

34:17
what does this mean for real life and for for Bob who goes to work at the steel steel mill and and for me I'm a

34:24
you know web developer SL manager or that kind of thing like how does this

34:30
tie into real life and in I if I'm out here you know building

34:35
houses am I am I missing the boat am I not you know building his kingdom I'm building a leral house so I don't have

34:42
time to build his kingdom in other words you know I'm I'm not an usher at church I'm not a you know I don't volunteer in

34:49
some aspect and can this still be a reality for for me that guy you know

34:55
what I mean um well there's the there's the question for you mark yeah that's the question

35:01
for me can and uh it's interesting you say that because I believe yes that you

35:07
know no matter what my occupation is I can be a part of building God's kingdom

35:16
with all the people that I interact with from that vein of life if you will and I

35:21
think in a lot of cases and this isn't this isn't anything against the church I

35:26
think you know there are many who use their occupation to bring others just as

35:32
much as many pastors would you know in a church setting and that's nothing against those who work as pastors don't

35:38
get me wrong but I think of it even with Paul you know he he hooked up with some other tent makers and that was a part of

35:45
his you know Ministry that they would you know kind of you know be tent makers and then they they you know teach in the

35:52
you know the temple on the weekends you know as part of who they were and I and

35:58
I for me that is an aspect of okay yeah

36:03
my occupation is my current Ministry and that's not to here again that's not

36:10
minimizing those who are called to Ministry but I believe we're all called to a Ministry versus the ministry if you

36:18
will and I and I think that um I think it's important that Bob Justin Mark Joe

36:26
you know sue you know that we don't lose sight of

36:32
the fact that what that God is calling us to our own kingdom building right

36:39
where we're at whether it's whether it's cutting hair teaching kids you know that

36:45
kind of thing I believe everybody has their Kingdom building

36:51
opportunity if you will right where they're at and I and that's the other part of it I think they're

36:58
this whole dynamic of well I think of teachers especially you know and

37:06
this governmental Dynamic that basically says you know we're not allowed to talk

37:11
about Jesus in school you know and I really feel for those people who are caught in that dynamic because they feel

37:19
that conflict and they feel that anxiety if you will while I can't share my faith

37:25
and it's like I think I think there's is going to come a day where it's going to

37:30
be a lot more difficult for us to build the kingdom based on persecution if you

37:36
will but I do think that's just another aspect of Kingdoms in

37:43
conflict and I think you know even in your question that's it will likely be

37:50
more difficult from my perspective for the average um employe or business person to

37:59
be able to do their business you know in a christian-like manner or with a you

38:06
know very much open Jesus follower Dynamic and I think you know we need

38:12
right now is the time to be saying okay yeah this may get more difficult because

38:18
I think there is a part where our um in our building of our kingdom we we can

38:25
tend to forget that there are two kingdoms in conflict that are part of what we

38:32
experience here on Earth there's God's kingdom and then the you know Satan's kingdom and those those are very much

38:38
opposed to one another and I think yeah that's I don't want to go too far down

38:44
that track but that would be how I would walk through that to where yeah I think

38:49
there's going to be some shifting that occurs in the days that lie ahead biblically speaking and it's going to be

38:56
important to be be mindful of okay do I continue to build my kingdom here on

39:03
Earth and do what I need to be comfortable here or am I mindful that

39:08
this isn't the end and I'm thinking about God's kingdom and the future that

39:13
lies ahead and how I'm serving that in a way that is

39:20
obedient versus Comfort because I think it those two can be in conflict

39:28
and it but it's a indicator to me mhm go ahead yeah there's definitely

39:34
some thoughts you want to challenge there and that's okay too no not challenge at all just uh add two yeah

39:40
that's fair enough 1 Corinthians 10:31 says whether you eat or drink or whatever you do do all for the glory of

39:46
God and we memorize that as a basketball team in high school CU my coach being

39:52
memorize that we would say it before every game and it was his way of saying remember when you go out in the basketball Court you're reflection of

39:59
the Kingdom you're part of you know sure and um and it's but I just think about that there's two sides to that there's

40:05
the there's the command side where we're meant to be obedient which is I need to live my life in a way that can bring

40:11
glory to God but there's also the flip side that he's saying you can just eat

40:17
and you can just drink and still bring me Glory cuz I created you sure and I

40:24
built you ex exactly the way you were and to drink the way you do and eat the way you do and you know what I mean that

40:30
I don't think we often think about that side of it is that he is pleased with our very

40:36
existence and we don't have to be standing on top of a you know Soap Box

40:42
inside of the the the the courtroom or whatever or the

40:48
the the what do you call that the meeting room right at your Corporate Offices I got you yeah conference room

40:53
conference room there you go you can't you don't have to be standing in a soap box there preaching the go toing Glory you can just be a of

41:01
Integrity you can be a person who's supportive and loving you can be someone who's kind and not you know critical you

41:07
can be someone who's not competitive but instead builds others up to your own detriment right like there's so many

41:14
ways to build his kingdom that for people who are not evangelists yes to

41:20
still build his kingdom sure and one of those ways is doing your craft

41:25
well sure think uh again often I I don't think that message gets

41:32
preached often enough which is doing your craft well MH with that idea in

41:38
mind that like I'm building this because I'm part of his kingdom and I'm doing it for his glory sure like I think that

41:44
brings him so much Glory he doesn't need you to be preaching now if he's called you to he does need you too right like

41:52
there's there's a difference between callings and I understand that and but I really think think there are

41:58
many many many many many people who are just blueco collar workers have no interest in being in the choir or being

42:05
an usher or you know preaching or you know at celebrate covery you know

42:10
teaching there every other Friday night or what like whatever that thing is MH but they show up at work and they do

42:17
their craft well and they have they're a person of integrity and they don't take

42:22
the bait when they have opportunities to cheat or or uh you know steal in one

42:27
sense or another like you know what I mean I think all of those things are

42:32
opportunities to build his kingdom and to bring him glory versus only the the

42:38
the the special magical ones that are preaching or evangelizing or you know

42:43
what I mean I do and I think like you said as it becomes more difficult to preach using our words it will become

42:49
that much more important to know how to preach using our actions you know and I think that's something that we take for

42:57
granted now um that well I can just talk to them about Jesus and I think

43:02
sometimes we maybe lose track of the fact that our actions matter so much and

43:08
if you ever do get around to talking to them about Jesus they are not interested because they've seen who you are in that

43:14
context and in that context and they don't align so why should they trust anything you say right so all that being

43:22
said I think every one of us are called to do what we're called in the moment whatever ever it is whether you eat or

43:28
drink do it for the glory of God you know and I also think about like the

43:34
Craftsmen that he talked about that built the temple and the Tabernacle there's no mention of their spiritual

43:41
spirituality of how spiritual they were and yet they are named in the Bible as being people of importance in the

43:48
building of the most important building project of all history the place where God's spirit was going to dwell and meet

43:55
you know the kingdom um um I think there's that's significant right doubt

44:00
that there there were people at that time that did their craft so well that only that single person in all the Earth

44:08
could do this job sure and they did it immaculately right and it's talked about

44:14
in the Bible and I just think sometimes again we lose sight we think about the priests and the Levites and the the

44:22
coats that they had to wear with all the stones like just all of the process of

44:27
the temple and like that's we're trying to replace that with our modern day equivalents with pastors and whatever

44:33
but we forget about the Craftsman who built the temple and it's interesting you the way you said that only one

44:40
person on Earth and Immaculate Mary came to mind for me you know to where it's

44:46
not even necessarily always about the Craftsman the blue collar worker the executive it's about kids yes it's about

44:54
teenagers it's good you know it's about you know

45:00
anyone who knows Christ and at that point they become

45:07
part of this exponential Kingdom you're in yeah you're in and therefore you can

45:15
begin to enter into this process of Kingdom building whether you're a 7year

45:23
old 17y old or you know 70 year old you

45:28
know that I I really appreciate what you bring from that every person has their

45:36
component of the Kingdom that they are able to build yeah and even if I may not

45:42
in a in a guilt sense but that every person has that

45:47
opportunity to build yeah yeah some some of the people I think of

45:55
you know growing up in life that I respect the most are those who

46:01
probably themselves would say oh I'm nothing in the kingdom and you know a shs kind of thing and yet they just live

46:08
a life of integrity and everyone knows it and they're just a beautiful person and you just look at them and go man I

46:15
wish I could be like that person you know I don't think man I wish I wish I could be like Mark Driscoll you know

46:20
what I mean it's like but you think of that that kind of that humble person who goes to work and just shows up and is is

46:26
Jes to everyone they meet and you know what I mean I do um that's just so laudable and yet that person isn't

46:34
thinking oh I'm you know all that they're usually thinking the opposite and I think there's something to be said

46:40
for that humility even if you are amazing at what you do even if you are you know the a great preacher or a great

46:47
Carver of stone and build something for the temple whatever that or you're a Mary right yeah yeah um there's

46:54
something about that humility of recognizing oh I'm part of this grand scheme the kingdom I get to be

47:01
part of that and I'm going to work on this little corner of the kingdom and that person's working in that corner um

47:08
yeah and you mentioned children too and I don't know we we uh I we heard a

47:14
message a few years back where he basically said uh actually it was Pastor Troy I don't know if he was quoting um

47:22
something if this is something he researched but he talked about Billy Graham's parent

47:28
right what he ended up kind of bringing out of that was some of you you know are

47:33
called to be Billy Graham some of you are called to be Billy Graham's parents and that just hit me in like Square in

47:40
the face like wow like my whole life I've been thinking about how you I've

47:45
been thinking about doing Ministry my whole life and how I you just felt feel called so to speak and recognizing like

47:54
I think sometimes I miss the forest for the trees like I I I think oh I need to be doing all that the 99 when God said

47:59
no there's the one right in front of you your children you know and they have you

48:05
don't know that they're not going to 2x whatever you're doing MH and you need to

48:10
invest in that right invest in in your family as a parent recognizing that that might double your the the the talents

48:18
that God gave you when he comes back and he goes look at that you got three kids you you three exed your R return sure

48:25
I'm like well what about the thing I did at Celebrate Recovery what about he's like no no no this this is plenty you

48:31
know yeah and I think for me personally sometimes that becomes a sobering reminder and something that I now try to

48:38
incorporate as a reminder in my life you know on a regular basis of like how are

48:44
you treating this part of your kingdom you know of his kingdom how are you stewarding your kingdom yes the one that

48:52
you've been given yeah yeah no doubt by just I really like the

48:59
idea that we are given opportunities to be

49:04
excellent at certain things and like you said sometimes it's parents right like

49:09
the excellent example of a parent and you look at them and go like wow I want to

49:15
be a parent like that you know and sometimes it's crafting you know carving stone and sometimes in my case I like to

49:21
think it's D Coda right you know like I feel like I'm crafting it I I just

49:27
really care about it and I treat it as if I'm that guy you know preparing to

49:33
build the temple like that guy was really good because he had spent decades crafting right and building his craft

49:39
and even apprenticing before that um and so I like to think that the Cod i writes

49:45
that way too whether I end up coding for the temple or not is not really the point but just knowing that like that's

49:51
a crap that I'm able to do for his glory and may may or or not reflect on him the

49:58
way I want it to but I'm going to write it as if it does if that makes sense makes perfect sense do everything you do

50:05
yeah yeah I think that's just a really fun thought for me because it's like well I don't have to be like I said out

50:12
preaching this matters too sure you know yeah that life of

50:18
Integrity yeah is is an important dynamic opport or it's a dynamic

50:23
opportunity we're given M to be able to be mindful and and it's uh yeah I

50:30
appreciate your uh your clarification maybe even on some of my my line

50:36
thinking where is the line too far but I think you know it is in for me

50:41
personally it is in that Dynamic where I tend to shift from the bigger Kingdom to

50:49
my kingdom and what I want to do or what I'm I should be doing or but there is a

50:55
I want to recognize there is a I believe there's a peace if you will that we can have when

51:07
we're mindful that we're we're not just but we're part of a

51:15
kingdom that is moving on it's it's not going to stop

51:23
it's not going to end and what I do but still what I choose to do can make a

51:30
difference and I think that's you know because it's not if I'm starting to feel

51:35
that anxiety if I'm starting to feel that pressure that competition for me I might need to pull

51:42
back a little bit because I think my focus has suddenly shifted or not suddenly but maybe over time shifted

51:50
yeah and I think you know each life cycle stage is an opportunity for that

51:55
to happen yeah you know you bring up the kids you know it's like what do I do

52:01
when I get the empty nest you know because in our audience there's going to be people who so what do I do with that

52:07
transition you know because I'm not necessarily working on building my family so much and now but and I have

52:14
these extra resources you know because I'm not you know funding my children so

52:19
much anymore you know in that process and it's just interesting to think about how I have this opportunity

52:27
throughout my life to continue to reflect on whose kingdom I'm about and

52:34
what is that mean for me today for today yeah yeah for this month and this year

52:39
and yeah yeah yeah it's good yeah I think one last final thought

52:48
for me um too is I think in the last couple years I've really been trying to

52:55
figure out the the balance between uh so like doing worship for instance you are

53:01
up on a stage in front of people and there is an aspect to doing your instrument well and your whether that's

53:07
your voice or your actual instrument and so there is this desire to do it well MH

53:14
but in that desire to do it well it's like this reflection process of did I do it well or not and sometimes you say yes

53:20
I did it well and it becomes difficult to remember why you're up there it can

53:26
become to remember there instead be focused on the sound instead of the

53:31
spirit right sure um and I think one of the things I've been slowly

53:38
I think learning is this thing that God uses that too MH and it is the same

53:45
answer as all the other things which is continually remembering what kingdom I'm about so I want my voice to sound better

53:53
but I want it to sound better for his kingdom you know what I mean remembering that and that it might sound like even

54:00
like unbelievable to some people like oh you just you know it's it's about your own kingdom it's like well yes it's both

54:07
and I think that's part of it you know what I mean I think when we bring glory to him there's going to be very many

54:14
times where it also brings us a certain amount of credibility and us a certain amount of sure um effervescent or

54:21
whatever you know like itates it's supposed to set us apart it's supposed to make us you know you think of the

54:27
Daniels in the Bible you think of Joseph when we do what God wants us to do there's a good chance we're going to

54:33
stand out in a good way MH so just remembering like that's part of this whole equation and you still have to put

54:39
that on the altar too and like say okay I see that now I'm getting more accolades or I'm not or so you know

54:44
maybe they don't didn't like what my singing sounded like and does that matter for the

54:49
kingdom okay no cuz I think I'm still called to do this MH so I'm going to keep working on my craft keep working on

54:56
what I do regardless of whether that person dislikes it or this person said I

55:01
did an amazing job it's not about either those things even though this one feels good and this one hurts really bad you

55:08
know what I mean I do yeah continuing in the faithfulness of with the opportunity

55:14
you've been given and doing that to the best of your ability with God's glor for

55:21
God's glory not being caught up in the Perfection yeah just being in The

55:27
Obedience I think is a yeah and recognizing that there's a chiseling that's happening right like sure when I

55:34
like for instance the singing thing and so you know you hear enough accolades then Pride is very easy to come right in

55:40
and so a few critiques here in there is a good opportunity to Chisel some of that Pride away and go you're not all

55:46
that you know what I mean and I think that's a balance that's important and yeah I don't want to need that

55:53
balance I want to just be humble but I I recognize reality too like I'm human and

55:58
the flesh is easily wooed yes yeah and I think it I think it are those who may

56:05
have the Chisel are quite often the people who have gone before us and know

56:11
the the shortfalls maybe at times to avoid or did you ever think about doing

56:16
it this way and that becomes a part of our learning to be able to do what we do

56:22
better as Craftsman for the kingdom yeah yeah good thanks for sharing Justin

56:30
thank you for sharing this is how we see

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