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[Music] morning Justin morning Justin morning

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Justin morning Justin that's impressive it sounded like an actual broken record I tried well

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done hey sounds it sounds like you must have heard broken records growing up or something oh very much so had that very

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much so the only thing I was the only thing that was missing was the static oh yeah

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yeah good morning Justin good morning Justin that's pretty good that's pretty

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good uh yeah so what are we talking about well you know what we're talking

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about an important topic this morning one of the most important this is this is one of your as I've come to know you

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this is this is a Justin ISM yeah let's I'm just not trying to

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be defensive or you know offensive even for that matter no offense this is this

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no offense Mark but I'm not offended none taken this is we're talking about adjustin ISM

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this morning [Music]

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yeah welcome to how I see it with me Mark Pratt and Justin Sternberg this is

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a podcast that works to countercultural polarization through

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thoughtful [Music] conversations and I call it the the

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stick and I've had some conversations recently with different people and I just keep referencing this thing and you

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know what I've been workshopping it have you well just in that I've been uh I've

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been talking about it a lot I thought maybe you were developing a workshop around the stick that you were going to

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workshopping you know that's like uh they they they talk about that like with comedians like they're workshopping

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their material trying to hone in on what what works the most effective um I was

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about to say I've been working workshopping a better name but you know I haven't come up with a better name okay so it's just the stick the stick so

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tell me about the stick the stick all right so I have this philosophy um okay

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where uh every gift that we have every Talent every whatever tends to be tied

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on the other side and I call it the stick and I hold my hands up like I'm holding the stick right sure one end

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tends to be a positive thing in our life it's usually attached to another end of the stick which tends to be a negative

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aspect of her life in your other hand in my other hand but you know it's one stick sure and the key component

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together yes exactly the key component to this stick which again man we need a better name than stick Mark well I hate

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to say it but it sounds like a Continuum in some ways it does yes yes uh right

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the key component to this stick though is that they are attached there's no detaching it sure um

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and why that is so significant is that you know and and again a lot of this

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comes from the background of being around recovery for many many years we have we come to find these

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negative characteristics these negative traits that we have right sure and it

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becomes our goal to abolish them completely gone out of our life um and

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you know something like addiction you truly want gone out of your life right so it's not necessarily about habits or

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kind of the surface things it's more about the under under the surface type things so um you know anxiety is an

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example of one um people pleasing you know can be another example where we

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have this desire once we figure out that we have it to just get it gone and get it out of my life I never I don't want

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to be that person anymore so point of clarification you were talking about our

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Character defects yes okay so our you saying addiction is a character defect

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or anxiety is a character defect that's a good question

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um you know yeah it's I want to be careful about how we Define defect because part

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of this conversation in the stick is to recognize that some of these quote

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unquote defects are just part of who we are and try as you may and do the work

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that you can some of these things are going to be they're built into your character your personality I would even

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say personality over character because there's this idea that everyone has these certain personality Char

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characteristics that kind of Define who you are as a personality um and I also

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the word Define scares me too a little bit cuz you know we never want to just

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say you can't change and I guess I don't want to go so far as to say you can't change but character is something that

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you build and you work on right right so Character defects are basically things that kind of undermine your character

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right okay um but would you say they are still learned or is it something that's

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innate something that we're born with yes I think both okay I think they

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can both happen um I'm not sure I'm trying to just again this is very much workshopping this well that's why we're

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doing this and and I'm not trying to I think it's this is a mental exercise you can

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do where you can plug in any strength and any weakness okay okay um and see if it sticks if it doesn't stick don't use

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it use it different use the stick if it don't use the stick if it doesn't stick you know that reminds me of my favorite

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dad joke yeah what is your favorite dad joke that's terrible I know it what's

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brown and sticky a stick a stick yes all right moving on

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the point is it's a a mental model right it's something you can kind of take plug things into and see you know see how it

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calculates right and kind of see if the the model fits and then if so you have a a tool um a lot of cele recovery is

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built on different mental models and they don't apply they don't all apply to every single thing every single

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situation right so again Character defects even that term that's that's a key uh term in recovery like trying to

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remove our Character defects mhm um but even that uh in some cases like I said

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we need to have Grace for ourselves and recognize that my tendency for instance towards depression or whatever is I

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don't know if some if it's something I can eradicate from my life so there needs to be some Grace there to

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understand that that quote unquote character defect um may be one of those

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thorns in the flesh that Paul talked about where you pray for it to go away you do the work for it to go away and it

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still kind of comes creeping around and you can't quite identify uh the door it walks through

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right to like get rid of that door or close keep the door closed and locked or whatever

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um yeah so back to stick thing yeah and I was thinking about it from a Chara

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that's where I'm coming from is a character defect Dynamic and I'm thinking about in that left hand if we

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say that's where our negative character right so my left hand is always the strength so we you got I don't I know

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why okay but we we got to we got to fix that okay so your right right hand is

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the yeah it doesn't make sense but I don't know why it's always I'm always if it's it's your model though Justin so

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the right hand is our negative Character defects yes yep you got it so in my

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right hand I have what I consider these negative Character defects and you

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alluded to depression you alluded to anxiety that kind of thing and I'm and

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I'm and I'm thinking about that in a from a negative standpoint and I'm still

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thinking from my mind I'm thinking okay is anxiety always a negative thing yeah

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or is and and I guess that's where I'm let's recognizing it can be connected

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yeah let me explain the mental model a little bit better because it's not about

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first defining it's more about defining kind of a neutral character that you have

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Okay so let's let's name an example sure perfectionism fair enough I'm a perfectionist Mark yes you are all right

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so let's let's take this and apply the stick mental model to it what are some of the strengths and positives that come

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as a result of being a perfectionists go ahead perfectionists are great editors okay in other words they know how they

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they just can mistakes come popping to the surface when their eyes pass over them MH um on

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the other end what what are some other strengths is that the only strength well I think that's one of the greater strength

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that's fine well let's move on on the other end uh on the other end um that

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desire for Perfection can tend to make people critical of other people which

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can some of those knock on effects as relational problems right um maybe maybe

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you don't have many good relationships because and it and and I think with that

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in that not the middle but with that critical part I think it's always it's

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easy to um and it's hard to encourage

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people let's put it that way kind of that that 10 to one positive to negative

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interactions I think you know when I am critical or when I tend to be critical it's harder to have the 10 positive you

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know affirming conversations before I have the one negative so I think it can lead to you know more critical spirit I

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just tend to see you know what's wrong with everything around me or you for

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that matter yeah yeah exactly and so what I like to do in these conversations

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sure take this mental model this stick and beat him with it beat him into submission until you

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change this is how I see it no that's ter thoughtful

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conversations and beat them with a stick if that's what it takes

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uh all right maybe I do like the name the stick it's multifaceted uh no so

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like we're talking in some cases we might be talking about someone's the the strong side of their characteristic and

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they they might be feeling a bit little bit prideful about that kind of talking about well if this person would just

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understand you know I'm a really good editor or uh another strength is that a lot of times a Perfection is produces

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really good work so they they might produce laudable work and they get lotted for that work often and they

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might say if if I was so bad why does everyone appreciate when I come in and do this whatever right sure um or vice

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versa like you maybe have felt the uh the pain of the other side enough years

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in your life to now you're just tired of it you know it's like you're only talking about the negative I can't keep

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a relationship every time you know we're on a date I can't help but look at the the spinach in her teeth or you know

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whatever it is right like and you this is sounded real familiar to you Justin oh got

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[Laughter] well the listeners can't hear my spinach I hope so it's all good uh yeah so

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either direction I like to take the stick concept and say listen with perfectionism there's two

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sides to this stick sure and the goal I think in our life is to find a balance

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because and get this I'm holding up my my hands right right and left right and left and I'm holding the stick in my

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hand and I have it balanced evenly right level so to speak um and the the goal is

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to understand the on the strength side it's attached to the negative side so

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when I'm tempted to feel prideful in like this is the ultimate thing to recognize yes but it's connected to

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these other things and you have to keep that balance in mind so that the the pride and the the tendency towards um

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you know saying like this is the ultimate is in check to be able to say it's not the ultimate it's part of who I

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am it's a gift that I have but it's balanced by this other side sure right and then on the other hand so that's

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that's me holding my left hand higher up in the air saying I'm really proud of this right so we want to bring that in

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Balance to say look it comes with some humiliating sides that brings it kind of back down into balance right sure and

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then on the other side let's say my right hand is higher up right I'm out of balance and I'm feeling the shame of the

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bad sides and one thing to note here MH is that it it's very common to not see

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the attachment of the good and the bad that's very common and so what I was saying at the very beginning is this

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idea I want to eradicate the bad MH not recognizing the but if you get rid of that so this is this is where the

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conversation comes in when they're dwelling in that shame and and the disappointment of these negative

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characteristics to I try to encourage them to say look

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this is a problem you are right mhm but don't forget that it's attached to to this other end sure and because of this

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right you do great work at work you do work that people look at and they think

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wow this is what I want my work to look like like you produce laudable work and

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on top of that when you step into a situation maybe everyone no one in the

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room can find this problem but you're able to and as a result you can save them from a lot of Heartache because of

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your abilities to find those flaws sure and like being able to take that stick

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and bring that left side up and get it back into balance to say now this this this negative side that's something

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you're going to have to work on this is something you have to keep balanced but don't forget that it's attached to this

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good side sure and you can't get rid of one without the other you're just going to have to throw the stick away which

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you can't do you know like this is part of your personality it's part of the stick it's part of the stick and the

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stick is part of you I hear you you know and I'm and I'm not I know you want to

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uh find another name uh for you but when we thinking of that balance it does remind me of the you know the ying-yang

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type thing the black the white you know and that that connectedness that there is a balance to

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strengths and weaknesses and we all have them and I was thinking about it in a in that aspect of um you use the word shame

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and you know that's that's typically one of those things one of those words that I'm going to think about whether

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I agree with it as far as applicability yeah you know because I I think you know

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we can tend to feel shame when I am bad yeah because of this and I and I think

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sometimes we get it mixed up with guilt in a process that says okay I tend to do

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these things and sometimes those things you know specific things catch up with

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me and then I do feel guilt about those specific things you know what I'm saying in that and I think yeah whenever we

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tend to feel that guilt or shame there is a there is a part of us

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that like you're saying wants to get rid of that you know kind of ship that off the the the cargo ship

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you know just drop that in the ocean and sail away yeah but yet the stick basically brings that back to us in such

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a way that we're connected and that ability to have awareness of my strength

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with my weakness yeah is a healthy thing it is yeah that's that's been my perception and um you know back to the

16:07
shame and guilt thing one thing that you've said before that I think is is the idea of Shame is I am bad right

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right where the idea of guilt is I do bad right that was bad that thing is bad

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versus an identification thing shame often takes the things that I do bad and says but you're bad exactly yeah so

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again I I don't it when I say bring those things in Balance I certainly don't mean it's okay to continue those

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flaws and you know write it off as um acceptable I think we're meant to

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wrestle with those things you know contend with them and continue to find

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tools and resources to address those things in a recognition that says this

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is part of who I am therefore sure I need these tools these plans this this

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this toolkit or whatever to help uh work through some of those negative Tendencies sure um because without that

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plan that stick will get out of balance right and then also this idea of shoving

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the stuff off the ship right yeah the problem again with that if you could do

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that is you're likely now untethered in the strength and I mean that sounds

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great like so only have the good right but I just don't think it um matches

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with the reality which is we need that humility to keep it in Balance sure you

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know and that's what gives us the gravitas with our strengths to be able to say it's it's a heavy responsibility

17:39
to carry this strength sure right because it comes with this as well and I I don't know I think that gives it more

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Humanity it gives it you know um I I honestly don't know that there that there is such a thing as a a perfect

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strength that has no you know like a characteristic that doesn't isn't somehow attached to the other end of the

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spectrum as you said right the Continuum so as you're workshopping this stick

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okay help me understand where growth comes into your model I for me growth is about the

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balance it's about hey you're holding that negative end of the stickup way too

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much and this is what you're beating yourself with this is what you're hurting other people with like it is out

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of balance and the goal would be to all right let's chill out and recognize you're just human this is something you

18:30
should you can work on but hey let's also balance it with the fact that this also comes with this this strength like

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we talked about earlier so for me growth is about learning to recognize that pattern and see when they're attached

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and be able to come back to that balance sure continue to the rest of your life

18:48
keep that in balance as much as possible and vice versa like growth is being able say hey I know you're super proud of the

18:54
fact that you can criticize everybody and you can find all the flaws and that you're you're really proud of that Let's

19:00
Chill on that because here's here's the thing look at the wreckage behind you right as a result of this this quotum

19:06
quot strength right like of wreckage of relationships or okay yeah yeah

19:12
relationships and even you know opportunities because they're like you know I see the gifts there but I don't

19:18
want the I don't want the the the end of the stick that hurts me I just want if I

19:23
could have just the the good end I'd take it you know so for you the stick becomes that ability to

19:30
recognize that I can be

19:35
prideful and about the things that I've accomplished but that's still a can be a

19:40
negative Dynamic when I go too far in that direction yeah that's why balance

19:46
is that's why it's about balance sure holding that stick in and then I think as from our human Dynamic we we only

19:54
want to focus on that one end that we see as our string and it does take

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relationship to kind of help us recognize so the stick is kind of a

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relational Dynamic where I'm open to the fact that I'm connected but yet I also

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have people to help me identify what's in my right hand and speaking of these

20:18
people these people they have sticks too you know where this happens the most

20:23
often is marriage because in the dating side of things

20:29
you get to see a lot of that left hand right a lot of those strengths and we're pretty good about bringing our best foot

20:36
forward and kind of leaving the baggage at the door when we when we leave to get in go on our date right sure uh in

20:42
marriage the rest shows up mhm and all of a sudden and you hear Mark you hear this in counseling all the time I'm sure

20:49
I know I've heard it many many times I can't stand that he does X and X is the

20:55
other end of the stick that got them into this relationship and in the first place it's the thing that made them go

21:00
this guy is amazing you right isn't that so common where it's like yes but you're

21:06
not realizing that that's connected and what made you love him is now the thing that makes you detest him yeah and

21:14
they're attached you don't get one with the without the other is that fair well that's very fair that's I mean at that

21:20
moment when I'm hearing that that negative cycle I'll I'll I'll immediate

21:25
not immediately but routinely I'll shift it to say okay what Drew you to them in

21:30
the beginning yeah and that's when you'll see that other side of the stick see them light up and yeah it's like oh

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I remember you know this and that you know and there's a multitude of things most cases you know if if you hear that

21:45
part well I'm not sure what attracted me to him in the first place you know then we still got to work on that next but

21:51
you know when you're able to kind of make that shift yes that is that is a part of the Stick of relationship

21:58
is that the we have these strengths that we bring in and as you say in dating we tend to lead with those and minimize and

22:06
you know those and so often it that Dynamic of red dating it's like we're jousting with the stick in the left

22:13
hands forward and sure and then this analogy I mean it just goes so

22:20
well yes I I can see that you have put a lot of thought in the stick it's the hammer it's the hammer

22:27
that's right I tend the stretch analogies as far as they can possibly go so that's fair enough no but I was

22:34
thinking about like in marriage for instance some examples would be like you know my husband he never plans anything

22:41
you know he doesn't I always have to do take the initiative and figure out what we're doing what restaurant we're going

22:46
to or whatever you know and you know what what was it that attracted you when

22:52
you were dating oh he was so spontaneous you know like and it's like that's a

22:57
perfect example right like well when there's meant to be a construct maybe

23:03
that's a weakness but when there's room for spontaneity that's the strength right um or you know stability versus

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you know yeah yeah you can see how that Continuum is there you know well well

23:16
you never we never do anything spontaneous well yeah but I love the fact that he was so stable cuz I was so

23:24
emotional at that point and he was just a source of stability or vice

23:29
you know that's and that I mean a good example of that with me and Megan is like she's really good at planning and

23:36
orchestrating things so like sure you know Saturday we're going to go to Wilmington we're going to you know go to

23:42
Trad Trader Joe's we're going to make different stops or whatever and she'll have the route planned in her head and

23:48
you know this whole thing like she just kind of maps it out and so much of her life I love that about her sure like she

23:55
knows exactly where their kids are going to be when they're going to be when I need to be there to pick them up all this she has this whole thing mapped out

24:02
in her head and to be honest it relieves a lot of that need in my mind so I'm

24:07
like she's got it figured out I'll just go where she tells me to go and she but then of course we go to wilmingon I'm

24:13
like oh hey we should go do X you know the spontaneous thing is you see this look on her her face

24:19
like we didn't put that in the schedule you know and I'm like come on you know

24:25
and then I get offended right like you just never you know want to do something spontaneous and fun it's like but I'm

24:31
reaping the benefits of her strengths in this most of my life sure and then you

24:38
know and and this is something as you can tell I've learned like this is a stick thing where the the negative side

24:44
that bothers me sometimes I have to recognize is she as far as balance goes

24:50
in our relationship I reap the rewards of the strengths way more than I deal with the quote unquote negatives of we

24:57
don't get to do this Bond thing or if we we never get to do what I want to do or we can here's the thing she will allow

25:04
it she's not a jerk sure but she's not going to have the same excitement that I

25:10
would that I would have and that I would want to see right it's going to be like okay we can do it but it's against my

25:16
plan you know yeah and and I think that even ties in with the growth dynamic as

25:22
you have shifted you value who she is and yet you're able to say now in your

25:29
mind versus you know years ago you're able to say oh Wilmington on Saturday

25:34
yeah I was thinking about can we what are your thoughts on that can we add that to and you know and and I think

25:41
you've probably learned to be more um what's the one you ahead yeah yeah we're

25:47
going to go with planny planny that's a good word I'm good with

25:53
it but yeah you tend to think proactive that's the word I was looking for you tend to be more proactive in your

25:59
ability to say hey what about this because it's not just flying by the seat

26:04
to your pants anymore and you know which would tend to be a reactive thing between the two of you years ago yep

26:11
because and then of course you would have your own aspect of that cycle when you didn't get your way now you're able

26:17
to say okay well maybe next time yeah you know we're going it's not like we don't need to food from Trader Joe's but

26:24
next time if we can let's just think about this and add that to our to day yeah yeah and I think or even asking for

26:31
room right is acceptable too uh Hey when we go to Wilmington let's not you know

26:37
maybe plan the whole thing like let's leave some room for I might want to stop here I'm not sure yet but if there could

26:42
be some room she's great at that too it's you know and I've also you know in terms of growth recognizing like if I

26:49
don't do that well that's on me I I had an opportunity to to have that conversation and growth on her side is

26:56
she's definitely like Through The Years understood that about herself and said

27:02
and she's very flexible like I said she's not a jerk she'll totally do it sure now I just want her to tell her

27:07
face that she wants to do it hash tell yourf face I like

27:14
that no that's that's a joke um but yeah you get the idea it's like sometimes I

27:21
want more out of her than she can even give you know because I'm I'm asking a lot of her in terms of you know her

27:27
personality um and you will tend to see that through her body language at times and some of

27:33
that is is just that reactionary feeling that we sometimes have when we when our

27:39
mind is suddenly thinking oh not again our face tends to betray that at times y

27:45
but patterns you know yes very much so yeah another uh personal area that I you

27:52
know I think I've talked about approval addiction sure um this idea that like I you know I need approval in order I need

27:59
that next hit right of approval um and so I've applied the stick to this too

28:05
and to just understand that that desire for approval allows me to be really good

28:11
in a social situation like I can step into a situation and I can make someone

28:16
feel happy you know I can I can find the person who maybe looks like you know

28:21
they're um you know on their own or whatever not can approach them and have a conversation and like I've learned how

28:28
to get people to quote unquote like me um through like I don't know it's hard to explain

28:35
like basically talking to them and encourage you know asking about their stuff their life and recognizing you

28:42
know over the years like what gets someone to like you is you liking them you know like but so that's the strength

28:48
there's some strength there and then the other thing is it kind of like the perfectionist it allows me to produce

28:54
really good work because I often will that that's like a I want to produce

29:01
good work inherently like I desire that but when I get the approval it's like a

29:06
stamp of yes you know this is good work let's do it again it energizes you yeah

29:12
exactly so I tend to produce good work right so those are some of the strengths now I think you can naturally Intuit it

29:19
some of those weaknesses of like sometimes the work's not enough I also

29:24
need the approval and then it's like you know get a little or whatever or um like

29:30
you know in terms of that relational thing it's like okay that relationship is matured enough to where my little

29:37
party tricks right now it's just about real relationship and it's like you know I don't think I impressed this person

29:43
anymore that I don't have anything else to offer you know and that can be like a

29:48
bummer for me like oh you know I don't know so again I don't have any more magic tricks left yeah exactly exactly

29:55
and the stti is putting those things in Balance to say hey now we have a real relationship you know and I don't have

30:01
to do party tricks every time I see this person sometimes I can just be real and that's a good thing and then vice versa

30:07
like recognizing you know sometimes that good work you know everyone's applauding

30:12
it but honestly that's partly why I did it so just recognizing like that's not a good thing I'm glad I produced this work

30:18
I'm not glad that you know part of the reason and the motivation was to get

30:24
this Applause and it you know feels it's just a balance again I don't mean to drag that strength so far down there's

30:31
now shame but just that balance to go you know it's all right you know yeah does that make sense it does make sense

30:39
and I think like you like you're saying we need to be aware of the balance because most of us have a strength but

30:46
there is a you know another side if I may to that you know that strength that

30:52
I I need to have an awareness of yeah in such a way that says okay

30:59
yeah it's not just that I'm this because we can think about even that that um

31:05
like people pleasing you call it uh approval addiction approval addiction yeah you know it's like that other side

31:11
would be the inability to say no to people yes yes that too y you know because I'm so con you know consumed at

31:18
times with pleasing people which makes you a good servant sure but makes you a slave to yes exactly and it's you know

31:26
it's difficult and at times it can be difficult to be honest yep because of the fact that you know sometimes I need

31:32
to be able to say no and sometimes you know I need to be able to say hard

31:38
things to people in a way that is still truthful and kind you know that kind of

31:44
thing so yeah I just I appreciate uh you're sharing from that perspective and

31:49
I think so often you know even in who we are there's I and initially I was

31:56
thinking you know I think we all have strengths and we have weaknesses and

32:04
being able to tie those two together I think is helpful versus yeah I I think

32:11
sometimes I can think about it I guess for me personally I may be just good at one

32:16
thing like I may I may be you know I may be able to use my hands but I wouldn't

32:23
necessarily consider myself a business person you follow me and I and I I the

32:29
stick analogy I like because excuse me in some ways I need to recognize those

32:35
two aren't stuck together you follow me so I can still work yeah you know so so

32:41
we want to I think if if I'm hearing you correctly we want to recognize that one

32:47
thing typically like Pride MH typically has a stick at the other end you follow

32:54
me but it doesn't mean that just because it doesn't mean that everything is connected to everything sometimes like

33:02
yeah go ahead I'll let you I can tell your understanding where I'm come from maybe better than I'm communicating yeah

33:07
they're not always yeah you can always draw a clear connection between two traits I think that's part of saying I

33:13
don't think you should force it but I do think uh you can learn to learn this you

33:21
can learn this mental model and apply it and like I said if it sticks it sticks um I think the two ends probably is is

33:28
like you have the thing in the middle that this is the stick the two ends are's pride and shame sure right so I

33:34
think I think that's probably what I would say to keep in balance and um but

33:40
yeah I mean even with with you and being good with your hand we we joked and talked about this a lot on this podcast

33:45
like the technical side you know you made jokes about not being good at that but at the same time trying to keep that

33:52
in balance and say you know I can get better at this and you you've mentioned that several times and uh you know and

33:57
it's recognized that like I'm really good with my hands which comes at the expense of not really caring about this

34:02
computer stuff but yep whatever but trying to keep that in Balance to say I I feel like that's a perfect example uh

34:08
in terms of your side and what you just brought up you connected the stick nice job you made those two things into a

34:14
stick but yeah I'm hearing where you're I'm saying like you can't take two distinct sticks and then attach them so

34:20
AG being good at business and and being good with your hands maybe not but being good at Tech versus being good with your

34:27
hands I can see how those are kind of two ends of a stick yes but like you said it doesn't mean you can't get

34:34
better but right it's pretty likely at this point in your life you're never going to be like someone who sits like

34:42
works at a computer likely not there's nothing inside you that has any inkling

34:47
that that would be a direction you'd want to go right like I think I know B on a desire even at this point that's what I mean yeah so I think that's safe

34:54
to put on the same stick versus like what you're saying maybe you don't necessarily you don't

34:59
feel the same way about being a good at business sure that's something you I think based on what you're just saying

35:06
right now you do have a desire to do and do see that you could get better at it and it's not necessarily I'm good at my

35:12
hands therefore I can't be good at business yeah right thinking of your stick though when uh I realized you

35:19
mentioned CR at the beginning but for you when did you how old were you basically when you kind of gravitated to

35:27
the the stick model when was that you know in that process for you because I'm I'm thinking about certain

35:34
ages looking back in my own life you know early on I might not have been able

35:40
to even acknowledge there is a stick yeah yeah so how did the stick process come

35:47
about for you if I may ask uh like I said I've been workshopping it for a while yeah but I mean was there a

35:53
specific I think I think a lot of the celebrated recovery material itself is

36:00
about finding and addressing Character defects but there's also a lot of things

36:05
in the material about talking about our strengths and what areas we good at because because uh as you know spiritual

36:12
inventory is you know step five is kind of right in the middle uh step four step four is uh creating your inventory and

36:20
the whole you know what we talk about so often about inventory is keep it balanced balanced exactly and so what I

36:27
started that I think at some point in this I've been doing celebrate covery for uh well I started in it 14 years ago

36:35
off and on been involved with it for 14 years and so somewhere in there it started to go wait a second they're

36:42
connected you know and then even like applying that to myself and seeing how

36:47
it was connected and then starting to hear it around the room cuz you know you go around the room people answer their

36:52
questions and I start to go oh yeah that person's thing is connected too you oh

36:58
that person's connected and they're feeling a lot of shame but they don't realize they have this other side or vice ver they're like oh he's really

37:04
proud of that thing but he doesn't realize it comes you know like yeah I hear you so yeah I I want to say let's

37:10
go with let's go with six years yeah and it's interesting that you when you when

37:15
we as you were discussing that talking about it when I think of old school

37:20
balance I I imagine those two like the Justice weight system you know what I

37:27
think a balance does combine you know something in on this side my right side

37:33
with something on my left side and we kind of you know view that so it's interesting that word itself as an

37:40
origin of yeah two things being connected in a in a way that weighs them

37:47
against the other yep yeah the other thing cuz you were move moving your hands up and down sure and uh what made

37:55
me think of is the stick on a tight roope there you go right I hear you and that's kind of what I'm talking about

38:00
like trying to keep the sticking balances yeah and if you're on the tight rope yep exactly well you know the tight

38:06
rope yeah no I'm just thinking about what's that what's that thing they they use they don't use it a stick what's

38:12
that thing a person carries across the the tight rope I don't know I'm they're all sticks to

38:20
me if I had a better name don't you think we would have started with that baton yeah it could be could be uh

38:27
either way I bet you someone knows the name of the stick that a tight rope person could be a balance balance stick

38:34
or just the word yeah be I don't know I don't know either but yeah so that's the stick what do you think I like it does

38:41
it work yeah no I appreciate you sharing from that perspective yeah yeah oh and the other thing I was going to say is

38:47
the better you can get at identifying the stick the more empathy you can have

38:52
for others and more grace for others in yourself to be able to kind of balance those things things and uh again when

38:59
someone is exhibiting weaknesses that bother you to go yeah but what does this mean you know and be able to do that or

39:06
when you're trying to encourage others right like depending on the environments you're in someone might be really upset about characteristics of theirs and be

39:13
able to encourage them and say yeah but remember this too you know um and again

39:18
doing that back to yourself to say I'm so frustrated I did this again and to you know keep those things in I think

39:25
the concept of this balance thing is really healthy for anybody uh if the stick helps you remember that and you

39:31
can start seeing the stick you know I think that can help uh help keep things in balance a little bit no doubt and as

39:38
as you were describing that even the servant leadership is a is I think an area where

39:44
a person recognizes they have abilities to lead but they don't have to anymore

39:50
you know and and I and I think so often that comes with time and my ability to

39:55
say okay yeah I can lead but at the same time I can help others become good

40:01
leaders if I pull back and I'm willing to just say hey you know let me help you

40:08
in that process it's just one of those thoughts that come to mind but I think yeah so thanks for sharing Justin yeah

40:15
thanks for letting me talk about the sck not a problem at all you want to close us that's how we see it there you go

40:22
doesn't sound as good coming from you you do it you do it this is how I see it

40:27
nailed [Music]

40:34
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40:40
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