Mark:

We’re officially beautiful back on. So yeah.

Kellie:

Oh god, sorry. Before we start, the cockroach was right here like at the beginning. And it was like crawling right here And I was like, what do I do? Huh.

Mark:

She picked up her feet. Pretty close to your feet, guys. She picked up her feet.

Kellie:

Pretty close to her feet, but I was like, this is just happening. And then it saw it crawl around and then I saw it come out from under Mark’s chair And I was just like

Mark:

I didn’t see it till it was at the door because

Chris:

I saw it over there.

Kellie:

I remained so calm.

Justin:

I didn’t see it till it was right by Kelly’s head. It had already done all that at this time.

Kellie:

At that point I was like, well

Justin:

Mark ‘s still here. Rescuing it.

Mark:

Yeah, it’s still right there. But it’s not gonna move from now s

Chris:

Well no.

Mark:

Until someone does.

Kellie:

Well I have look I keep looking at it just wondering if it’s gonna wiggle a little or something and it it doesn’t.

Chris:

That’s what that’s what it felt like to mark the wife.

Mark:

I just wiped it on the rug.

Kellie:

Definitely wiped it on your rug. Definitely did it.

Justin:

You know, that that’s okay considering you You saved us from the state.

Mark:

Yeah, exactly. I figure you know it’s part of the price you pay for, you know, exterminations.

Justin:

It’s a little bit of extermination juice on the road.

Mark:

Exactly. Yeah.

Justin:

All right.

Mark:

All right, we ready Welcome to How I See It with me, Mark Pratt and Justin Sternberg.

Justin:

This is a podcast that works to counter cultural polarization through thoughtful conversation. So

Mark:

uh Mrs. P sorry didn’t mean to do that clap right there for editing purposes there you go. But um Ms. Pia in that process of intergenerational learning, I think it’s I I think it’s interesting as you bring that up and how our culture has shifted. Because I think even on the other end of that, you know, we have a whole generation of people who are uncomfortable with young people. We separate, you know, the curmudgeon comes to mind. You know, and even in our even in our I would say times in our church settings, it’s like babies crying is a terrible thing. You know

Chris:

uncomfortable.

Mark:

Well yeah, some would see it as terrible just because it’s like

Chris:

interruptive.

Mark:

Yes. What the what’s that kid doing in here?

Justin:

Someone’s not gonna get the word of God in their heart Because

Mark:

yes. Which and I’m and I here again, this is how I see it. How do you see it? Exactly. As I as I m move my hands through the air as I’m juggling ball. But You know, is that this is how I see it. And I think, you know, we have missed out. I think it’s a great point you bring up at times. Yeah, well you bring up great points all the times, but and that uh era of you know okay kids go here adults go here junior high goes here and I think there is a part we’re missing out

Chris:

There was a teacher, a specific teacher at Southport Elementary when I was there, who intentionally sought out grandfather type men to come into her classroom once a week and would invest in those boys in that classroom. I mean and they were maybe veterans. I mean they had so much to offer, but that did so much more than just give her a helping hand. I mean it it it brought a new um Mm experience to those boys. It made that comfortability between the generations easier. There wasn’t this fear of from the younger boys to okay, this man I don’t know who he is. I mean it just developed a relationship. I loved that she did that. And she did it with one one of the gentlemen. Gentlemen passed away and she within a few months found somebody else replaced He wasn’t replaced. Found somebody else to come in and serve that role. And I just love, and that’s what is one of our neighbors, the guy across the street. He was actually one of her helpers. And It was good for him too.

Mark:

Yeah.

Chris:

Right?

Mark:

No doubt.

Chris:

Yeah. Gave him purpose and gave him this opportunity to invest in the next generations.

Mark:

Yeah. And I think it even adds to that that storytelling. I think we’ve lost some of that storytelling dynamic in our culture as you know that inner generation generational dynamic has fallen away, you know, and yeah, it’s a it is a it is a loss.

Chris:

It is a loss.

Mark:

Yeah.

Kellie:

And I think too like our kids teaching our kids like the art of like good conversation and like Like when someone’s sitting in front of you, especially someone who’s older, like, they’ve got a lot of cool things that they’ve done with their life, you know? So teaching our children to be like even if in their their youthfulness they might say like so were you alive when there was no telephones? You know, like things like that, like, you know, like Maybe they’re talking to Uncle Justin when they say that. Like, Uncle Justin, you’re pretty old. Tell us about when you were a child and focus around. Yeah, like I but I feel like that’s like for them to realize like Man, if I can have conversations with people, like I can learn so much too. And definitely, I mean, I feel like they can always learn in any conversation, but I feel like especially with people that are older than them to like learn from their experience and hear about what they did with their lives and like I feel like I missed out on that, like in the aspect of like my grandparents and things. Like I never took advantage of hearing more about their lives and like what they did and like their their time in the service and just like the the way that life was when they grew up. Like I wish I would have done that, you know Um and I did it, you know, so I think teaching them that is I think a pretty cool thing too.

Chris:

But emotional intelligence is something that’s not given enough credit or g enough focus. And uh makes me think of, you know, when I when I have a conversation with a young, let’s say middle school or or so I work with middle schoolers.

Mark:

Bless you.

Chris:

So I am always impressed. I have a couple in my class who come to mind immediately. I’m always impressed. I’ll come and you know we’ll do a little chatter and A couple of them will always say, Mr. How’s how was your day? Like when they reach out to me and they ask questions instead of me always being the one to um Offer or probe or question or whatever. I find that very um interesting and I wonder, hmm How did the parent foster that um confidence? Maybe is it a confidence or is it just a a care, a compassion for people? It could be a lot of things, a curiosity. But I always think, wow, that is such a good quality. They’re not intimidated be by me being older Mm-hmm. You know, they’re comfortable and they are caring. And so that’s that’s that’s maybe maybe one of my gauges about kids or when I meet kids or when I you know, talk with kids. It’s like what are they able to carry on a conversation back and forth?

Kellie:

Yeah.

Chris:

Or is it always one sided?

Justin:

It’s funny you bring up emotional intelligence. Because once in the one of the first episodes you seen another bug?

Mark:

No.

Justin:

Alright. Mark the killers on the biggest.

Mark:

The core day was thinking. you need a little more. There you go.

Chris:

Thank you.

Justin:

Perfect. As one of the first episodes re-recorded, I made a joke kind of thing about homeschoolers and their lack of emotional intelligence.

Kellie:

Oh we know. Oh we know you made that joke.

Justin:

All the homeschool listeners are angry at me. The funny thing about it was, and I think this would be a maybe a good transition and talk about that’s a great upbringing. That’s a great transition. Yeah. I would love to hear from each of you like how you were schooled through high school basically Um, but for me, I was homeschooled and I lacked emotional intelligence. So when I told that story, I was thinking of me entering sixth grade in a Christian school from being homeschooled and how rough it was and like I was made fun of and I was the nerd and I didn’t know how to deal I didn’t have the emotional intelligence that I then had to learn. So my uh I I went to it’s very confusing. I did homeschool for kindergarten and my mom said I can’t do this and I don’t blame her because that was I was a handful at that age And so for a year I didn’t do anything. So I did home school, kindergarten, then nothing, and then I went to a Christian school for first and second grade in third grade and then they pulled us out no and fo uh and fourth grade. They pulled us out. We did homeschool for fifth grade. And then I went back to a Christian school from sixth grade all the way to the high school, right? So yeah. So I kinda had a his a storied school career. Uh not really, I mean I mean it was mostly a Christian school and a little bit of homeschool sp splashed in there.

Mark:

Yeah.

Justin:

About you, Mark, what was your story?

Mark:

Oh, my story is uh is not nearly so complicated Um I long story short, I grew up uh in well, my elementary school, I could walk there.

Justin:

Oh, cool.

Mark:

From and if I if I missed the bus You know, that was what I had to do back in that day, was you had the walk. You know, there’s there’s there’s many stories that go along with that as far as whether I did whether I didn’t walk seven days, but um

Justin:

suspicion hall between

Mark:

you could always count on a neighbor going by.

Justin:

Uh

Mark:

so you could always hop in, you know, and then you know but m yeah, it was it was a different era, but I there were many times that I did have to walk, yes. And then I went into into town, as we called it, you know, for um middle school. whatever elementary school, that kind of thing. And then um I graduated from that same public school, you know. And I think for me, um education the the education and learning wasn’t something I did well early on and and I

Justin:

Not a passion topic for Mark.

Mark:

Well it is. It is, but it’s something I did. It was not. Yeah, exactly. And uh you know, my my poor brother and mother, they were not sure that I was gonna make it through elementary school school, you know, just because of my grades and so forth at that point it’s still kind of one of those uh family dynamics that I wrestle with at times. But yet I I have come to appreciate you know, education, but I also recognize how as you you mentioned being a handful, you know, and I respect, you know, you know, as you share, and I think of John early on, it’s like educating boys and educating girls are t is quite often two separate things, you know, from a developmental standpoint. And so I really do appreciate you know, the teachers who were able to, you know, decipher that difference for me. And I and I can, and no offense to you ladies, I think about you know I’m also thinking about you know growing up the the men the the as you mentioned Jackson you know the the male teachers that I had and how formative they were for me in creating a you know a rigid structure that I needed, you know, I needed a little fear of God in me at times. You know, I’m not saying it’s all about that. But yeah, there is that part where, no, you can do this and you may need to buckle in a little more, you know, whereas you know, other other people I was a little more able to manipulate even, if you will, you know, I can’t do this, you know, and I can remember being inspired or called out, kinda, you know, as you were sharing you know, pursuing that upper level, I can remember the teachers who called that out of me you know in that early age. So yeah, that’s kind of Kind of

Chris:

and just just as an aside, uh I think again another Mark homeschooled John for two years, and I think in middle school years, sixth and seventh grade. I am so grateful. I’m so grateful. Not only for those don’t cry don’t start crying anymore, but um the relationship that was forged. between Mark and John during those years prepared them for what was coming for the high school years. I mean that that relationship with father and son Would not be what it is today without those years. And I’m I’m not saying it’s anything that we did. I feel like God put his hand on our decisions and he knew what was coming and he knew what we needed and um If I had been the homeschooler, if I had been the one educating, we would have missed out so much on the relationship that John and Mark have. So That’s an aside.

Mark:

That’s an aside as kid.

Justin:

So make that part of your school.

Chris:

Yeah, dads, dads, get involved, dads. Absolutely. Absolutely.

Justin:

So good

Mark:

Yeah.

Justin:

So to summarize Marx, basically it was I would say t traditional path, right? Like very much one school basically one school system talked about

Mark:

Yep, one county.

Justin:

Good or bad, whatever that system was, that’s what you were in.

Mark:

One local school district.

Chris:

Very small community though. Everybody knew everybody.

Justin:

Gotcha.

Chris:

Which I think has value. Again, the intergen intergenerational dynamic was very present in his education.

Justin:

I’ll say it was present in mine as well, because our Christian school was um all the high school was sixth uh no seventh grade all the way up to uh seniors, right? So we were all in the the same quote unquote high school and we would interact in a lot of ways and do plays together, sports together, ’cause you didn’t have enough to have just a high school team. Usually we would have some Yeah, so a lot of that intergener I mean that’s not really intergenerational, but even that blend I felt like was healthy for my emotional intelligence, but no doubt.

Chris:

But I feel like Mark’s experience is truly intergenerational. When I first met him, and he could inter I mean a lot of his friends were two generations ahead of him.

Justin:

You’re an old soul.

Mark:

Old soul. And I and I think about it too, even in as as I had five in the elementary you know, kindergarten through fourth grade, um, my parents had social interaction with three out n they definitely knew all five, but w there was a ongoing social interaction between my parents and three out of five of those teachers. You know, to where whether it was church or whether it was work environment, you know, it’s like That definitely had some inspiration, you know, because you knew it wasn’t I could get away with it, you know what I’m saying? There was gonna be a conversation, you know, and it wasn’t And

Chris:

your parents knew it knew them ethically and morally, like they could trust your education to those people.

Mark:

True.

Chris:

They knew them. They knew their values. So which is very different from our education, public education. Education today.

Mark:

Yeah. There’s more stories that could go along. Oh yeah. Yes.

Justin:

That’s good.

Mark:

Moving on, Kelly.

Kellie:

Yes. Okay, so for me, I went to a private school, the same private school as Justin actually. From kindergarten to I believe it was fourth grade Mom, if you’re listening, maybe it was fifth. Um I can’t remember. I think it was fourth grade though. She’ll tell us. Anyways.

Justin:

Put it in the show notes.

Kellie:

Maybe it was fifth. Yeah Yes. Um, but and then we decided to go and homeschool at that point. And the main reason we decided to do that was Um my brother and I at the time were just not being super challenged in the school setting that we were in and my mom just felt like she was like, hey, if you guys want to do this, I think we should do this. And Um they did kind of I I feel like they let us decide. Maybe they just made us think we were deciding. I don’t know. It worked. Um and so So yeah, at that point I was, you know, middle school age and so it was pretty self-driven my homeschooling career. Um my mom was very involved and helpful, but most of the learning I did was pretty independent learning And then we moved here to North Carolina and when I was in ninth grade, I started doing just taking college classes at the community college. They allow homeschool students to do that and it was free. I just had to pay for books. And so then when I graduated from high school, I graduated with a two-year degree, Associates in Business. degree. And so that was a great experience for me. I don’t have any I don’t have any really big negatives. There was a season where it was hard that my mom was also my teacher and my mom We had like a year that I was like, I really and I I couldn’t put words to it. I think it was maybe my seventh grade year, but it was like I really didn’t want her to be my teacher and my mom. Like it was too it was too much. It was too hard to have her Telling me what to do on so many fronts in my life. Um and so we definitely wrestled with that and but came out the other end better, you know. And so I think it was worth the the wrestling and Really, it was just me being a little bit of a punk. And so I eventually got over it and realized that my mom was just looking out for me. So so yeah, so that was my experience.

Mark:

I appreciate the even that if I may too, and I think as a as a form of encouragement, recognizing that there will be seasons too.

Kellie:

Yes.

Mark:

You know, in this educational learning process. I think, you know, as you mentioned our kids are early, but you know, there’s seasons that go along with that. And as parents, not giving up in that process, you know, because our kids aren’t gonna be, well, they’ll be full of energy most of their lives but you know there’s not gonna always be that hyperactive type movement of the younger and you know and it it does settle into something you know and direction and I just just an encouragement you know from that you know thinking of your personal experience yeah there will be that punk stage but there’s there’s gr there’s there’s hope they grow out of it you know and that you know each stage I think it’s helpful. if you can just remember that yes, this is a season and being able to stay steadfast in that through.

Kellie:

Yes, for sure. Yeah. And as a homeschool parent realizing too that it is really hard that you are the parent and the teacher. ‘Cause I f I even feel that sometimes like it’s just there’s a lot of direction happening, you know. And so to give yourself grace in that and also to give your child grace and realize like You’re expecting a lot from them, you know, and that’s okay and that’s good and healthy, but it also is a lot, you know. So um, yeah, yeah. What about you, Chris?

Chris:

So I am a product of public education, um, kindergarten through twelfth grade. Um my early year, actually all the way up through eleventh grade, so First grade through 11th grade. I was in a small district of an upstate New York and very um Very not cutting edge necessarily, but they uh they did things well. Excellence. It was a school of excellence, it was a uh district of excellence. And I can remember in second grade Um, my teacher uh would challenge us and we learned sign language that year because, you know, there were a group of us that, you know Felt like we needed a little more challenge and social instead of doing the spelling words normal, you’re gonna do them in sign language. And so I felt that there was that creativity all the way up through that. That was a wonderful district to grow up in Um, it was small enough that I was given leadership opportunities and um so yeah, a lot of great things happened and then um My junior year, my dad lost his job. Um, so we moved uh to a like a back back to where my grandparents were an hour and a half away to a much larger district. And so I was at a in my senior year, I was thrown into this huge school. Um not a great experience. Mm, I could tell stories about that as well. But um so I feel like if I had grown up in that that large district all of those other years, I would have been a completely different person. I wouldn’t have had the leadership opportunities. Everything would have been kind of right by the book or the state curriculum, which, you know, is questionable sometimes. Um but again with God’s Providence and sovereignty. I am just grateful for that experience of the where he placed me in my formative years, educationally speaking. Wonderful teachers. I didn’t have the same experience with Mark in the sense that it was a larger district, so my parents didn’t know my teachers personally. Um but Very positive.

Justin:

I think it’s interesting, um, and one of the reasons I wanted to get your each person’s background is just to see like how different are educational experiences can be and yet still be in the same room having the same conversation. And I think that’s really important for parents to understand, which is one of the premises you started with both of you, which is It’s about doing what’s best for your family, right? And so and there’s gonna be and then Mark, you mentioned seasons. It’s not a one size fits all situation for every kid, for every family, for every season, and I think it’s important to do the the work to figure out what w makes sense in whatever season you’re in for whatever child you’re dealing with And also know that it’s not about that school is not gonna make or break your child. It also has a lot to do with you as a parent. Has a lot to do with the cultural influences you put in front of them. It has a lot to do with books. It has a lot to do with so much more. And also not every high school is created equal, right? Like not every school school district as you mentioned, not every private Christian school, whatever, is gonna ha hold to the same principles or whatever. Not every home school is gonna be run the same way. Some people have the passion for some don’t and their kids do languish because we thought it would be good. It turns out it wasn’t, right? Um I just think that journey is so important to understand too. um in education but yeah, what do you guys think about that?

Chris:

When you said that it mak it made me think of the colors Like okay, let’s say public school is green, but within the green color family there are how many shades of green? And I think that’s the same way with private education, with homeschooling It’s not a one one size and one one model. There’s so many different factors. So my first teaching experience was in a private school. Well, my very first teaching experience actually was in a bilingual intercity school, which was fabulous. I loved every minute of it. But again, these all these experiences make you think of education like bilingual education versus, you know, only learn in English. And so, and then my first job out of college, that was my student teaching experience, was actually a Christian school in Buffalo, in the area of Buffalo. was super difficult. And the reason was parents sent their kids, they paid the money for you to educate And I felt like uh there was a whole lot of pressure in that private school, Christian school environment on the teacher to be the bulk of the the child’s education and um it was just very difficult for me. Now, here I am, however many years later, teaching again in a Christian school, I can see it as a parent. I can see it as you know, I have friends that send their children to this to the school I’m at now and um so there is I think an element of we’re paying money for you to do our job or do a good job or um So live up to our expectations, maybe. But there’s also the idea that um maybe private school is in uh a sense move trying to remove their student from the culture of the public school experience. So at our school we have, it’s a Christian school, but we have students who are not religious or Christian at all. Which is another really interesting dynamic, right? So they’re in the our school because they’re re they their parents did not want them in public education. So I feel like again, if we’re looking at colors, we’ve got this Christian school blue, but there’s such a spectrum of what’s happening within that Christian school environment. Which is a challenge as a teacher, you know, teaching Bible to churchy kids who’ve grown up in the church and then to a student who is there and has never even opened the Bible for himself. So um so anyway, that my my that was my first uh experience teaching and then um moved into public education. I’ve never done the charter school. Oh, I do have my opinions about that. Um only because I’ve interviewed done interviews with charter schools as a teacher coming into North Carolina. And it wasn’t necessarily positive. Um, but I know a lot of parents who love their charter school. So Um again, variety of shades of color within that one term of charter school.

Mark:

Sure.

Justin:

Yeah, I love what you’re saying too about the but the parents setting expectations on the school to produ I that was one of the questions I was gonna have is should we as parents be expecting these institutions, n assuming not home schooling, right? You’re sending them off to get educated one way or another high school school or should we be expecting what should we be expecting of them? Should we expect them to instill character, for instance? Should we be expecting them to produce some sort of result. I don’t you know like what are what are healthy expectations for education institutions versus Like you’ve already called out, like expecting them to do your job is not good, but what does that mean? Like what what is a healthy expectation for school then when do you know okay they’re not meeting that and it should I should look at something different. Does that make sense what I’m saying? Because we do need to have some sort of expectations. What are they?

Chris:

Right. Well, what is the teacher’s job? I think that’s the the the question. What is a teacher’s job? Now if you ask that question today versus 20 years ago, it’s completely different. answer. And from a public educator standpoint, the public educator today is expected to do way too much. I mean they are they are not the person who should be feeding the child or making sure the child has clothes or making sure the child has whatever. But I think Unfortunately, in public education, the teacher is more than a teacher. And the expectation just keeps getting piled onto the public educator. Um as far as

Mark:

You mean almost it’s almost like the the teacher is more of a social worker now, looking for resources. Is that the

Chris:

I would say yes.

Mark:

Yeah. Um

Chris:

to be the emotional um support for that child.

Kellie:

Yeah. Um

Chris:

I think I think in some cases, not in all cases, this is in some cases th that teacher is the person of stability. Unfortunately only for a year. But you know, there’s there’s situations that the teacher needs to be that stability and embraces it, but at the same time it’s emotionally draining to have a classroom of twenty five or thirty kids and trying to meet all of those needs. Now we all know about Maslow’s hierarchy.

Mark:

We all do. We

Justin:

Yes we do. But remind us who have maybe got

Chris:

Maslow’s hierarchy. You gotta have certain things met before you can get to education. Right. So if they’re not fed, if they’re not emotionally safe, all of these things need to be met before you can teach a child. So if a teacher’s coming into a situation knows that those things aren’t happening

Justin:

There’s no use trying to teach them

Chris:

Well you try your best and then the the really bad part is at the end of the year you’re gonna test these kids and you your success as a teacher is based on that score. Well this kid didn’t even come with Food! So how am I supposed to teach this child if they’re not well fed? But you’re gonna you’re gonna make sure that my salary or my uh bonuses are gonna be tied to my scores. You know, there’s a uh there’s so many things with public education, but um

Justin:

It’s painful.

Chris:

What is the expectation? Uh what is the expectation of a public educator, I think, is just to provide a safe environment for your child. Now They’re doing their best. I I’m I give the educator the benefit of the doubt. They’re doing their best with the environment they have with 25 kids that have all different needs.

Justin:

Yeah.

Chris:

You’re giving them an almost impossible situation to be successful with every twenty f ev each one of those twenty-five kids. Think about think about your own kids. I mean how you as a parent are trying to meet their individual needs.

Justin:

Well let let me challenge that, not because I just I completely agree. But how did they do it in the one room schoolhouses where they also had twenty five kids, but they were yeah, their needs were even more varied than I mean I think Maslow’s hier hierarchy. Is that is that the thing we all know? Uh probably pretty apart. But I’d love to know

Chris:

I think the pressures weren’t there then. I think the in the community was more involved then. I don’t think the teacher was expected to be all things to every student. And I think there was an inner connectedness between the students. students. Like, okay, if you’re in seventh grade, you’re gonna come over here and help this first grader. And I think there was a more of a community feel rather than the teacher do it all. But I I that’s just a That’s just a guess on my part.

Justin:

That’s great. And I think those are almost obvious easy answers, but it’s It’s a good thing to think about. Yeah. And you also talk about parent uh their the uh teachers given the responsibility of kind of that emotional support and even in some cases their needs and yet we’ve stripped them of any uh ability to discipline. And like how do you do that? Like you’re expected to emotionally support this kid, but you can’t discipline them short of saying h calling the parent and their parents saying, Well, you gotta fix that. You’re the teacher like, Oh no. Uh I’ve I’ve seen that in my daughter’s when she was in middle school. She did home school this last year. She might go back to high school this fall, but we basically pulled her out of the middle school because there wasn’t the ability we w we could see there wasn’t the ability on the teachers and even principal side to do the discipline that we n that we felt we needed to see to be able to trust them to educate our child. ‘Cause there was other children in in the environment that were talking about death threat type stuff. Mm-hmm. And it’s like what are you gonna do about it? Well, we’ve called the parents. It’s like oh Okay. That’s it, that’s all we got. You know, and I d I I’m not trying to cut them short or whatever. I don’t know what all goes on behind the scenes. I just know that the ability to discipline has been shrinking every you know, decade while the expectations of what we want from them to accomplish has been increasing.

Chris:

Well that’s a that’s a that’s a culture wide um Reaction against authority.

Justin:

Yeah.

Chris:

I mean, I don’t think it’s just in the school system. We see it across the board. Like, authority is not authority. Mm-hmm. We don’t have a respect for authority. And then even within the the school district, um, the the child is right. Like the parent is going to back his child. Whether they’re right or wrong.

Kellie:

That’s what I was gonna say. I feel like now not only is that the way the kids feel, but that’s also the way the parents feel. Like the parent comes into the situation not giving the educator the benefit of the doubt, but coming in saying, how dare you do this to my perfect child who never does anything wrong ever. Right. And this is your problem and you will not you you know, and and again the educators’ hands are tied and so it It’s really tricky, isn’t it?

Chris:

And so you’re we unfortunately we are losing many, many, many fabulous educators out of public education.

Justin:

Yeah, because why would you do it?

Chris:

Yeah, it’s emotionally exhausting every day to walk into that situation and never know you’re going to be supported, never know that the decision You know, that your education, your experience is not enough. And that you’re going to be questioned. It’s it’s not worth it.

Mark:

Yeah.

Chris:

‘Cause I’ve I’ve been there, I’ve I’ve come out of public education and to put your family right marked, put your family through the stress of coming home every day with all of that, because your brain never shuts off. The students are always in the back of your mind. Your lesson and then we’re not even talking about lesson planning. Like every day you you’ve gotta have a full lesson ready to go. I mean When do you do that?

Justin:

Before you walk in the room.

Chris:

Before you walk in the door.

Justin:

Before you walk out of the room.

Chris:

And then you walk out with papers to grade and you know professional development that you need to finish for the district and the job never ends. And so there’s also there’s probably like six jobs within a teacher’s job, but you’re willing to have you have to perform all of them So kudos to the public educators because it is not easy and I think it’s getting more and more difficult. Yeah

Justin:

Shooey.

Mark:

Justin’s tired just thinking about it.

Justin:

I am I’m worn out, emotionally worn out by hearing about their emotional uh yeah struggles Well cool. Any other thoughts you guys have about early education? I think we covered it all. We did the covered.

Chris:

I’m gonna give you another um show notes.

Justin:

Oh great.

Chris:

Um there’s a great teacher, Tim Elmore. We used him at um some parent educating um events that we had at Generations Church. Excellent teaching. And it’s not necessarily Christian teaching. It’s like generational. This is what this generation is dealing with. As parents, this is the best way to you know, work with your hmm your Gen X or whatever. Um he’s just a has a lot of great resources.

Justin:

Awesome.

Chris:

Yeah.

Mark:

No doubt.

Justin:

Yeah, we’re gonna have a bunch of good resources in the show notes. We’ll include a list of some of our favorite books all four of us. I think that’d be fun. We’ll also include a link to the reading list thing that Kelly mentioned earlier. What what was it called?

Kellie:

It’s a book. It’s Honey for a Child’s Heart.

Justin:

Honey for a child’s heart.

Mark:

How can you forget that? Come on, a title like that, you just can’t forget it. Who doesn’t want a honey child? Yeah, it sticks, yes. Who doesn’t want a honey for a child’s

Justin:

child’s heart? Uh and then Tim Elmore, whatever that link is, but I’d love to include that. And um yeah, and and then you were also mentioning there are reading tools to figure out how that’d be great to link. Um yeah, a lot of good stuff we’ll have for people.

Chris:

But yeah, I think the big idea is parents, you have power, you have influence, you have control Um

Kellie:

and you’re your child’s best teacher.

Chris:

Absolutely.

Kellie:

Always. No matter where they are or what they’re doing with their education, you are the best one.

Chris:

Embrace it.

Justin:

Yeah. Yeah, tangent or not really, but just think about even my kids in school and like the stuff they go through or you’re right, like they bring home questions, they bring home stuff, drama with kids or whatever and it like I could say, What’s going on? I shouldn’t have to deal with this because it’s you know, the school’s supposed to be figuring out how to educate my ch children and make sure they have good social interactions and all that but No, I feel like we Mia homeschooled this year. We had to do way less educating for Mia this year because she did home school and she did she did the curriculum as Liberty Online. She handled that. almost didn’t need a thing from us. Where the previous years like we were helping not just with homework and kind of that stuff, but like a lot of just mental stuff, right? Like these kids are this is happening here. the the teachers d talking to us like this or in and I’m not saying I’m not complaining. I’m saying what you said, Kelly, which is we still have to be part of their life. We still have to educate in even no matter what education system they’re in, it is our role to to educate them. And then I also was thinking about books earlier. You’re talking about certain books will have certain concepts in them and I was uh s think about like some books even have attitudinal problems, right? Like it’s there’s nothing wrong with the material, but like that’s not how I want my kids to think it’s okay to talk to adults for instance.

Kellie:

Yeah.

Justin:

But like we have to continue to educate them so that they know when they come across those types of materials or whatever. that they come back to us and say, Hey, what about this? Or they know like, oh yeah, kids aren’t supposed to talk to their parents like that. This kid is rude and they know that reading the material on their own in their room or whatever. because we have to continue to educate and continue to be involved and be proactive. Mm-hmm. Um

Chris:

And also Justin, I know you’re Stevie Stephen Covey, right?

Justin:

Yes.

Chris:

Steve fan. So beginning with the end in mind. I’m thinking about me as situation. What do you want her to be like as an adult?

Justin:

Right.

Chris:

Like do you want her to be able to process all of these difficult situations? Um as helicopter parents, sometimes um there’s this n this feel that we don’t we want to make everything perfect. And we want to get all the the failure out of their life. We want to make sure that they have the best influences. We want to make sure that, you know, everything is just right. But if you fast forward ten or fifteen years, is that what you really want for your child, who is now an adult You want them to be able to process those things. You want them to know failure and that they it’s it’s just a little bump in the road. It’s not like the end of the world. You know, so uh there were times in in uh my children’s experience that I wanted to make sure they got the right teacher. I wanted to control it.

Justin:

Yeah

Chris:

And so I had to step back. There were moments I stepped back and say, God, I’m just gonna let you choose. And the teacher was not the teacher I would have chosen. But what did they learn that year other than the content of the classroom? They learned a whole lot more than I could have orchestrated

Justin:

Yeah.

Chris:

And so I feel like there’s a we could go into h helicopter parenting. That could be a whole nother episode. Um but anyway, that’s another

Justin:

That’s so good.

Chris:

Yeah. Ten years from now, fifteen years, what do you want your child what kind of adult do you want them to be?

Justin:

Yeah.

Chris:

And are you preparing them well for that?

Kellie:

That’s good.

Chris:

Yeah.

Justin:

That’ll preach.

Kellie:

Yes.

Justin:

I love it, Chris.

Mark:

Yeah.

Justin:

I love it.

Mark:

And I’m and as I’m I’m thinking about you know even our journey with Chris that kind of thing um I was I was mindful again of how you know God is in that process and you know and yes there will be fear And yet, you know, there is this opportunity to go forward, to be strong, courageous, to make the choices you need to make for your family. And it may not be the cookie cutter dynamic that fits for you know the other people in your social group. You may be that out, you may be that parent. You know, that we all think about it’s like, oh well, you know the Prats. They’re a little sketchy, you know, or not, but still, you know, being able to do what you feel led to do as your child’s parent. I think that’s, you know, that that and and as Chris was saying, and I think it was more so early on, you know being able to build the foundation that our kids needed because I and I’ll admit I think um as a Christian I was a jerk sometimes because I thought you know here’s this public educator, you know, and they’re trying to indoctrinate my child. And so I didn’t handle that well at certain times, certain junctures when we’d come, you know, evolutionary versus just creation, you know, type dynamics as we’ve just, you know, podcast, but I also recognize too, it was a learning for me to be able to recognize there is a curriculum. That sometimes teachers have to teach according to. You know, and it’s not that they can’t add to it, but yeah, if they add, it just lengthens the school year. You know, and they have so much that they have to teach that they can’t necessarily add everything else. And it for me it was a learning to be able to say, okay. Ultimately, my child needs to learn how to process these difficult dynamics. And like you were saying, we bring it home And we’re able to talk about it and say, well, this is how I see it based on my perspective. And

Chris:

what the Bible says. This is what the Bible says about this

Mark:

Yeah.

Chris:

What do you think?

Kellie:

And teaching them how to think, not what to think.

Justin:

How to think.

Kellie:

Because w it’s easy to just say this is what you think. Like this is what you’re supposed to think. But they need to know how. Like how do I take in information that might not f align with what I believe, how do I take that in and process it and then come out the other end like with better understanding like And everything. Like how do you how do you think? How do you grow? Like that’s how they’re gonna grow.

Justin:

And that’s the antithesis to helicopter parenting, I think, is become I mean, it really is. I mean but but you have to teach them that because no matter how helicoptery you are, stuff will leak into their vision, right? What that you don’t think they’re seeing or experiencing and they have to know how to think about that And sometimes how to think about that is I don’t know what to think about that and they come to you and you want to teach them that ‘s a valuable practice, right? Like and I don’t have all the answers either, but we can have a conversation, right?

Mark:

Yeah.

Justin:

But To think that you can protect them, you can put them in a bubble and keep them from all the things you don’t want them to experience is unrealistic. You cannot prevent all so you have to teach them to think like how how to think and how to process those things and tell them, warn them, like you’re gonna experience things I don’t think that you should experience and I won’t know you are, but I want to ha you you to come back to me and have those conversations And don’t just depend on your perfect parenting and your perfect bubble and your perfect Christian school and your perfect And I’m I’m talking about my own parents and my own upbringing. It’s like You thought you protected us from all this stuff and yet stuff still leaks in because we’re in the world, right? Like it’s part of our life. You can’t, yeah.

Chris:

Yes.

Mark:

Yeah.

Chris:

So many good thoughts.

Mark:

Any any closing thoughts, ladies?

Chris:

So just thank you for this opportunity. It’s been good conversation

Mark:

It’s been our pleasure.

Kellie:

Agreed.

Justin:

I think it’s been a great insight into how we see it.

Mark:

This is how we see it.

Justin:

Hey, thank you for listening to our podcast. If you like how I see it, please do all the things that podcasts tell you to do. Subscribe, rate, review, follow us, uh, and or talk nicely about us on social media. If you want to reach out, the email is us at howiseeit.click. Yep, I said dot click. As in dot click Please tell your friends about this show, and we’ll see you on the next one