0:00
[Music] welcome to how I see it with me Mark

0:06
Pratt and Justin Sternberg this is a podcast that works to

0:11
countercultural polarization through thoughtful [Music]

0:19
conversations so yeah mhm it's a good so I think the inner that would be you know

0:25
very different from Individual to individual where I grew up regardless of

0:32
race that's I guess that's my yeah yeah no I agree I I you know certainly and

0:39
that's not to say we can't have a race discussion some other day but yeah it's going to be a little different format

0:44
than just you and I from my perspective as well yeah and I don't think either of us are saying that there was no you know

0:52
black children that grew up in a rural situation and the same experience you did and vice versa we're not saying that

0:58
we just we understand with the percentages look like in terms of race in those situations sure but that's

1:06
again yeah a conversation for another time hopefully with some other people uh preferably of A different race yeah uh

1:14
cuz in case you didn't know me and Mark are just pretty much your standard white

1:19
dudes but uh yeah so back to the gun gun control thing um you you mentioned early

1:27
on you know in the conversation when I gave you L of line the right right um I

1:34
have the right the Second Amendment right to bear arms and defend and um and

1:42
I guess my question for that would be when the Constitution was written you

1:49
also had the right to own a human being right okay yep Y and of course

1:58
over time we realized the error of those rights and corrected it and I think

2:04
every person minus a small contingency of white supermacist which amendment was

2:09
that do you remember uh no I don't remember 15th yeah I was thinking 15th yeah myself but see okay cool nice job

2:17
well little history L be wrong and but I think you're right yeah let's go with 15

2:22
yeah I think 14 had to do with please someone Google this I think 14 had to do with alcohol and I know it's right in

2:28
that range yeah prohibition that kind of thing ouch that hurts well but keep going alcohol is

2:35
more important than oh I hear where you're coming from maybe I'm off there too but my my kids could correct me I

2:43
guarantee it please do kids yeah right into the show yes yes are you smarter than a fifth grader no maybe not but go

2:51
ahead yes so yeah you get where I'm going there but essentially there there's some stuff in there number one

2:57
the Constitution didn't cover everything and so we've written lots and lots and lots and lots and lots and lots and lots of laws since that thing was written to

3:04
continue to augment it right sure a lot of those laws are good A lot of those arguably you know depending on which

3:11
side of them you fall You' say they're bad they're whatever the point is it's it's not the soul um but it is the basis

3:18
right sure um that's what makes this thing challenging right is that it is it goes

3:25
way back and it is one of the lowest fundamental and found foundational aspects to our laws is that Second

3:32
Amendment right so over turning it or challenging it or whatever always gets

3:37
met with it's all right it's written in the Constitution or the is it an amendment is a second amendment no it's

3:45
it's it's not an amendment is no there's a Bill of Rights bill of right second Bill sorry it's not it's not an

3:50
amendment I keep saying Amendment but it's not an amendment it is core partments are the part that have been

3:55
added to change for the sake of individuals yes my bad that's the point

4:01
is it's all the way back there in the Bill of Rights I mean it is as as foundational as any other aspect and we

4:07
all love the constitution in America right mm um hopefully I think this would

4:13
be the one sticking point where people might not like the Constitution who feel strongly on the other perspective right

4:19
sure um but anyway you get my point and I'd love to hear your perspective

4:25
like why is that a right I'm not saying it should should be

4:31
or shouldn't be but why is it so important to if if you remove that

4:38
biller right and just say mhm just ethically MH why is it a

4:45
right I believe you're fine um from my perspective okay it was a

4:56
right a fundamental right based on that time because an

5:02
individual had the right to protect themselves from government coming in in

5:09
other words there were laws even in place that basically said you know the

5:15
British couldn't just completely take over your house and come in and murder

5:21
and maim you to have their house now do that say it didn't happen but no there was a law in place that protected and

5:29
the ability to maintain the militia the ability to have this protective

5:37
Force okay that I believe was very much a turning point in our early American

5:44
history I mean it's essentially codified as a result of our success sure in that

5:51
you know in the revolution to basically say hey the ability for us to band together and defend our rights is what

5:58
got us here it got us are independent we have got to codify this because this is a good thing right and yeah yeah from my

6:05
perspective yes and it is possible even in that for government to overstep

6:13
abounds and forget to protect the people and and granted I believe that is still

6:22
a fundamental I would I would say it's part of our American fabric if you will

6:28
because I believe that part of us still exists today that there is a desire to

6:36
let's face it if we want to talk um you know how things have changed and maybe things become Antiquated the

6:44
individual in I'll just say 1750 you know couldn't call 911 mhm yeah

6:53
you and so I'm hearing where you're coming from in that ability and I'm also

6:58
willing to recognize is that there's still even with 911 I think an

7:04
individual has that right to maintain arms and I think that's what would make

7:10
it very difficult to have a legislation that says okay

7:17
from now on no American can own any arms whatsoever I don't think you'd ever see

7:24
that um I don't just for the record that's not what I'm guess is really

7:29
trying to get to the the core of why it's a right like

7:35
why and I and I and I'm saying that in the sense that I believe it is a

7:42
tra tradition isn't the right word but I believe it's passed down

7:47
generationally and I and I think it it's what makes America different than other

7:54
like say a I think Australia you you can fact check me on this too I think

8:00
um Australia um had a buyback program years

8:05
ago and they bought back a a a a a bunch of weapons you know guns that kind

8:13
of thing um I'm not 100% sure that you know depending on where you are you know

8:19
rural inner city whether there's places you can't own guns like our Washington

8:25
DC or places like that but their buyback you know from a media standpoint was

8:31
very successful I believe that part of that difference is how their country was

8:39
established you follow me in that context of there was no you know

8:45
Revolutionary War that was part of that you know it was granted as part of a a land exchange if I'm not mistaken I

8:52
don't know the full background of the Australian history but you know it used

8:57
to be a prison type situ they would send you're right English you're right people

9:02
instead of going to prison they'd send them to austral you're right I remember that now that you're saying that you

9:08
knowth grade became yeah are you smarter than but that and and so I do think that

9:16
right yeah has been passed down from generation to generation makes sense and

9:23
I would also say that you know early on a lot you know I think we've become very

9:31
lazy as Citizens compared to our forefathers who fought the Revolutionary

9:38
War I believe there are I believe there are Moments When

9:45
government goes a little further that our forefathers would have never stood for right you know the level of Taxation

9:52
that kind of thing I'm not saying there aren't benefits to that I'm not an anarchist you know that kind of thing

9:58
but I'm I'm willing to recognize that it's interesting because when they

10:05
the um when the crown I'll call them you know wanted

10:11
to take away certain rights or add you know to the Taxation and there was this

10:16
push back they the desire to um not allow gunpowder to come to the

10:27
States was part of an issue so it's like guns aren't going to matter if we can't

10:32
get gunpowder you know and the crown of course knew that but you know and so it

10:39
was this process of saying okay if these people can't defend themselves okay I

10:45
can do what I want to do and you know and I think you know that

10:51
still there's you know I'm not saying our government's looking to take ammunition away from people either you

10:57
know that kind of thing but I'm still looking at it saying okay yeah if our government today wanted to

11:05
minimize you know influence of individual rights and arms and that

11:11
thing gunpowder or ammunition would be a way to do that you know and I think

11:17
that's what you know because there's a there's a saying um uh lead is the poor man's

11:22
gold you know because you know gold tends to allow people certain rights but

11:28
you know the poor man gold is lead you know so without ammunition there isn't that right to protect myself from a

11:35
overreaching government or you know individual yes oppressive forces and I

11:41
think that's that's part of our fabric if you will that yeah makes that right

11:49
important and I and and here again I from my

11:55
perspective I think you know a lot of of America early on were

12:02
Riflemen you know they you know it was a it was a way of life to you know provide

12:10
for my family and you know and so the idea of taking guns away at that point

12:17
represented so much yes uh oppression in so many ways of their life and I think

12:24
that's why it's written that you know okay yeah we can recognize

12:30
okay let's we've just fought a war not just fought a war but as part you know we're in this process we've been through

12:36
you know different Wars we know what guns can do we know guns can kill people

12:42
you know based on the tradition of I'm not saying it's a positive but you know War Dynamics we know how to kill people

12:50
but at the same time we recognize that and we desire for this to be a right for

12:56
a healthy individual doesn't even go that far but you know to maintain the right to bear arms the right to bear

13:04
arms now does that mean you have to own a gun to be an American no mhm you don't

13:10
have to if they scare you that's fine if you don't know that's fine see and

13:16
that's okay yeah this is this is great and I think I think your answer it's

13:23
kind of kind of got right to the point that I was trying to make which is it's very very much built from the tradition

13:29
of where we came from and the right is embedded in our Constitution due to the

13:35
people who wrote it um which makes me say we are not that

13:43
same people at this point uhhuh so let so yeah let me let me say same

13:49
circumstances are not in place right okay say a few things the first is that um I don't think we should prevent

13:55
people from having guns completely that's not that's not the point I'm trying to make however I think saying

14:01
that it should be a right is silly it shouldn't be a right I think you should

14:08
have the opportunity it much like there's nothing

14:14
in the Constitution about your right to drive a vehicle mhm and yet look how

14:19
many people are driving Vehicles M does that make sense I'm still trying to think about it from a historical

14:25
standpoint but sure I'm just saying I'm not even considering historical I'm considering right now like there is no

14:32
right you you won't find a right to drive a vehicle to to be able to own an opera vehicle uhhuh it's not written

14:39
anywhere sure same with computers same with what any number of

14:46
you know thousands of things that we use on a daily basis there's no codified right to be able to own and operate that

14:52
thing it's just uniquely guns mhm because of the specific culture that

14:58
that Constitution was written in where they said this represents freedom we cannot ever allow freedom to be

15:05
encroached on again this is a way to do that well there's many many more things

15:10
that uh indicate or represent Freedom at this point than guns guns are not I

15:17
would argue that a gun is not going to maintain your freedom I think that's a

15:23
silly Antiquated notion if the government wanted to come take your property they could do it your one gun

15:29
or five guns is not going to prevent that M no matter how you know how you feel about it it's just that's not the

15:36
world we live in now if if the government really wanted your stuff now one could think about like what if a

15:43
bunch of us got together and we you know like I didn't they do that in uh Oregon

15:49
or Washington a few years ago where they like hunkered down and a bunker a bunch

15:55
of people with guns and it was like this crazy you're not thinking of David crash in Texas no no no okay no it was uh I

16:02
want to say in the last 10 years the Keystone Pipeline maybe that was it was it it was

16:09
uh North Dakota South Dakota where they were over the land maybe there was a

16:15
land dispute maybe and they didn't want going to their territory that kind of I guess

16:21
my the point I was trying to make is you get enough of people together with guns like you can make a stir and the government's not going to just throw a

16:27
bomb in there cuz that's PR or nightmare or whatever mhm there's something to that again I'm not I'm not trying to say

16:33
there's zero uh Merit to the idea of being able to own a gun but again I just feel like the right thing to me is so

16:40
silly and Antiquated but I know I'm going you know certain people hear this they would just be so mad that I'm

16:45
saying this and it's like you know what that's fine it just seems silly to me that we have to cling to this idea of a

16:52
right but it is because it's in our foundational governmental paperwork so

16:57
the right the word Right comes right from there right um right I'd agree i'

17:03
I'd agree that that's where the foundation comes from to be able to maintain today that historical

17:12
right and then go ahead I I I also to your point about the kind of the culture

17:17
of how our government was founded in the fabric use the word fabric I think that's a good word has created this kind

17:24
of independent you know mindset that I think is a big reason why the United

17:31
States of America has been so incredibly successful for you know centuries right centuries now um it's been up and to the

17:39
right you know up until this point anyway right and I think a big part of that probably has to do with the the

17:46
independent spirit that comes as a result of the fabric MH right that was

17:51
created by our founding fathers which includes the right to bear arms and protect yourself and not allow any you

17:59
know Tom Dicker Harry or government to come in and take your stuff like you have the right to defend it cuz we are

18:04
independent Fierce People you know and I think that I'm not trying to belittle that or even um and again I'm not even

18:12
trying to say that we should change that I just think we cling to that but it's kind of a silly thing to cling to cuz

18:19
why you don't doesn't make sense you have the right to own a gun any more than it makes sense that you have you know that you have the right to drive a

18:25
car you have the opportunity and if you work for that opportunity you do you follow the right things you can have the

18:31
opportunity you know so is it the right or the opportunity that you it's the word right that you wrestle with well I

18:38
feel like the right the word right is what becomes um the flag in the ground

18:44
for so many arguments you know what I mean it's like well you can't do anything because it's our right it's

18:50
like sure why why is it your right should just be an opportunity and that opportunity should be regulated just

18:56
like most opportunities that represent lot of potential harm which you know

19:01
what I talking about like what I would like to see what you already said has a lot of those things in place to which

19:07
point I'm like well then you don't have the right Mark if you if you're required to have a license for whatever like

19:13
that's not it's interesting I'm I'm I want to pull on those threads just a

19:19
moment good let's do it pull away because I believe the fact that it is a

19:25
right I have

19:31
certain regulations laws that therefore protect me in the ability to protect

19:39
myself now if I step out of those I no longer maintain that right but if I'm

19:45
just talking about an opportunity then that's not

19:51
defined I think the fact that it is in our constitution it therefore has

19:57
certain regulations laws that protect its useage or my ability your ability our

20:05
ability to maintain and bear so

20:11
therefore as long as I'm maintaining and bearing using that right within that

20:18
legal Dynamic then therefore I'm able to protect and be

20:24
protected where if if it's just an opportunity

20:30
that sounds more well you're you could be in trouble because there's because of

20:37
that as you put it that that flag in the ground that establishes a

20:43
boundary more so than just an opportunity MH cuz me getting in a

20:50
car yeah is an opportunity now if I break the law with with that

20:59
car there's still certain consequences that go along with that mhm but and I

21:05
might lose my opportunity based on breaking a law and I do think you know the fact

21:11
that it's a right it is foundational

21:16
but I I like and here again it's that it's that follow the rules that go along

21:23
with it and there's no issues mhm and I'm not trying to minimize you

21:30
know opportunity and right but it just from my perspective those two can I

21:36
choose to do some things can I choose to speed is that an opportunity or is that

21:43
a right I have that opportunity that I mean that's exactly my point yeah the

21:49
other thing too we haven't found the need to codify your right to drive because it just seems like a silly thing

21:56
to codify you have the right to drive of course you do you know I feel like guns is kind of

22:01
like that yeah and the other thing too is it's not like I'm just saying uh I

22:07
wonder what would happen like we know what would happen if it wasn't codified as a right because there's many countries that don't have it codified as

22:14
a right and we also know that the US numbers in terms of you know uh number

22:21
of shootings and different things like that are pretty astronomical as compared to most other countries right like I I

22:28
think we both agree with that I think we could learn from some of these other countries to figure out how

22:34
to do it a little bit differently so that those numbers can maybe be better

22:39
but the problem is we have that quote unquote boundary that doesn't allow us

22:44
to move very far in that direction right because it becomes a flag in the ground

22:51
to where we can't even get Common Sense laws like you don't need an AR-15 m

22:59
maybe if you've owned a gun for 50 years you've had the license like let's grandfather

23:05
what sure I don't know no that's not what I'm saying maybe if you have a

23:10
reason to prove that it is acceptable for you to own it because you have a track record you're the game or whatever

23:17
I don't know what that what that is but to me I'd love to see some common sense laws around guns like that because it's

23:23
like nobody needs that M right

23:29
is an interesting it is an interesting word yeah you don't need it till you do I guess when you're defending your yeah

23:37
yeah I don't know yeah yeah yeah but that but I guess the the

23:43
my point is because it is codified in our constitution uh that is why our

23:50
laws can only go so far sure you know yeah in other words we can't take away

23:55
the right because it's codified in the Constitution and that to me I think is

24:02
unfortunate to me as I see it yeah because I think we could have the

24:09
same opportunities for the gun culture that you grew up in without having it be

24:14
quote unquote a right like in the same way that cars but could you I I believe

24:21
that it's possible and I'm not saying it isn't possible but I'm I'm of that mind of of

24:30
my perspective that says okay where do you draw that line now I understand your your argument

24:39
for you know AR platforms and AKs and those kind of things you know that

24:45
we we align with you know mass shootings that kind of

24:51
thing um I'm going to go a little further if I may yeah please do and say

24:58
okay that is a rifle okay um that's not to say that a

25:05
shotgun can't have five six rounds put in it for

25:11
hunting okay now I'm I'm here again I'm arguing a point but if a person doesn't

25:18
understand well what's the purpose okay then there's a point

25:25
where well let's let's just outlaw all guns because shotguns and rifles you

25:30
know projectile is a rifle shotgun shoots shot you know that kind of thing handguns you know

25:38
um but if it's if it's about limiting where does that limiting line be drawn

25:44
and my concern is that it's like okay there is a point where yeah we can

25:50
establish a line that you know you have to have and and there again you know you

25:55
have to have permitting to have some of these platforms you know so it's not

26:01
that people can't necessarily know but it it's a quite often illegal use type

26:08
thing you know that we're running into but I think about that and say okay

26:14
where does that line get drawn in protecting a person's right to have a

26:20
shotgun are we going to Outlaw because certain shotguns can be high volume you know

26:29
MH carry a number of rounds does that mean that all of them

26:34
should be eliminated you know because certain rifles are we going to eliminate hunting rifles that kind of thing and

26:41
that's that's where from my perspective I'm glad it is a right and I think we

26:47
have the ability to recognize that yes permitting is in place for

26:55
individuals you know of you know and and there's certain there are certain

27:01
weapons that you know individuals can't own mhm you know from a you know so

27:08
there a militant there is a line is what you just said there is a line yeah right

27:16
yeah um but yet I'm guessing well I

27:21
don't I don't want to pretend to understand that whole side of things but again going back to Vehicles like you can't own probably vehicles that had can

27:28
shoot projectiles that's probably not but you let's let's put it this way if I may no go

27:34
ahead you have the ability to purchase any car you desire within your

27:42
phys your your financial means now should a government say that you have to

27:48
purchase an electric car because you're using too many fossil fuels in your

27:56
Lamborghini you follow me it is is that the CU the government should be able to

28:01
tell you that you can't purchase a vehicle that consumes too much fuel or

28:09
goes too fast is that the government's

28:14
right well I'm asking I'm not arguing you understand having a hard time making

28:20
the connection and that's where I'm at with guns to automobiles so let me

28:25
finish that though okay uh like in order to have be able to operate a semi or a

28:31
bus you have to get additional licenses whatever yep um

28:37
and this is assumption I don't really know this but I don't think they just give it to you if you've never had a license ever well you know you have

28:44
think you probably have to have achieved the normal license and probably have to have had some history of driving to be

28:50
able to get to that next level and so that's another thing that bothers me about like some of those things like the

28:56
AR-15 uh-huh like you can just go get it and it doesn't in some states okay so

29:02
this is another hangup I have is that I wish it was more uniform so that everyone knew what the laws were in a

29:09
better way sure you know what I mean yeah I'm I here again this this is a

29:16
broader topic than gun control you know I'd be for a national permit that

29:23
allowed I have no problem to wear then I don't have to concern myself while you know can I be in this state can I not be

29:30
in this state you know and do and I and and as a as a gun owner I have to be

29:36
informed what those state laws are yeah when I cross with a car I can just cross

29:41
that boundary but I think it's interesting and I'm gonna I'm G to

29:47
follow and and and just for clarification for the audience I want them to know that we are smiling at each

29:54
other at times in this conversation we're not angry nobody is angry and this is a great subject cuz we don't get very

30:00
many of these where we kind of have a polarized perspective so and I want to

30:06
recognize you did bypass my question which one about should the government be

30:12
able to tell you what car you went to you know a license for a semi and a bus

30:18
I'm okay with that yes if somebody is purchasing a higher and higher level of

30:26
mass production um I mean um you know the ability to harm people in a greater

30:32
and greater way yes I believe there can be more you know regulation that says

30:38
okay are you capable from a mental health physical standpoint to purchase or or

30:47
own such a vehicle or weapon I'm I'm

30:52
okay with that MH and yet my perspective comes back to the question do

30:58
you should you be able to own whatever car you want regardless of its gas

31:07
consumption or its ability to drive fast do you believe that the government

31:15
should be able to control

31:21
that I believe that the government can do whatever the laws right them mhm to

31:30
be able to do like that's the government that we have established is that it's a

31:36
you know it it's intentionally built to have checks and balances which you know

31:41
one can argue whether they're working well or not but the point is yeah if they write a law that says that they

31:46
have saying right now you're saying does the government have a right to make a law yes they have rights to make a law

31:51
that's what the government does but do I agree with the law how do you feel about

31:57
that about the government's ability to say no you can't have that car because

32:05
number one it uses too much fuel or goes too

32:13
fast how do I feel personally about that no yeah I don't like that yeah okay yeah

32:19
and I think you know that's a similar line because I don't believe you know from my perspective and I believe it's a

32:26
it's a citizens maintained American citizens maintain that ability because I

32:33
believe as a culture may change yes there could that that right could be

32:39
amended someday if a from a cultural

32:44
standpoint and yet at that point at I I believe you know the individual is only

32:52
relyant upon the government mhm and I don't NE

32:57
necessarily see that as being healthy yeah I mean that's just just

33:04
such a strong statement that if I allow the government to regulate guns I'm only relying on the government where I would

33:11
say I think you're already you know close to that in you know so many

33:16
aspects of life I don't think am I Rel I don't think owning a gun changes

33:22
that I think that's a that's a strong opinion to say as soon as I own a v a

33:29
gun I'm no longer relying on the government does that make sense yep and

33:34
I'm also willing to say in our C our current culture okay if for some reason okay the

33:45
there was a desire for your that your personal vehicle you

33:53
had to that wasn't allowed to be driven okay would that impact your ability to

34:00
provide for yourself and oh yeah absolutely yeah and I and I think that's

34:06
the the differen is and here again I'm not an anarchist I'm not I'm not I'm not

34:13
uh what are the people that Gloom um where you're looking conspir I'm not conspiracy theorist you know in any

34:20
shape or form from my perspective but yeah I'm also looking at this saying okay I think there is an advantage to

34:28
this right to protect to bear and you

34:33
know have the right to maintain arms from that perspective and I don't

34:39
see it as being beneficial for the government to say you

34:46
know that's not right and I respect here's the other part of it I'm not saying government's just going to choose

34:51
to do that and yet I'm also recognizing that

34:58
as fear can run both sides okay if we're looking to just

35:05
minimize fear then I'm not sure we're doing what is beneficial because we're not going to

35:12
necessarily always be able to minimize fear mhm

35:19
yeah yeah and I and and that's kind of where I come back to we cannot legislate

35:24
morality yep yeah I I guess going back to the the word

35:31
right again it's not that I think um there should be drastic changes or

35:39
whatever I hear where you're coming from I feel like the word right is a little bit Antiquated when it comes to guns

35:45
because and again when you hear that you hear well then they're going to say I

35:50
can't own a gun or whatever and to me it's like there's a couple things I think

35:57
about when I think about that number one it's again going back to vehicles or any computers whatever um yes the government

36:05
could at any point say that kind of computer is now illegal you can no longer own Apple computers that could

36:11
happen I don't know how we would get there but it could um but it you know

36:18
like we are representative based government

36:23
which means they're trying to do what will get them revoted in so if we ban Apple Computers they probably wouldn't

36:30
and I think that's how it's meant to work and should work and I think it should work the same with with guns and

36:35
government saying you can or can't drive that vehicle or whatever um you know that's how the government is supposed to

36:42
work and has done a decent job but at the same time government is getting bigger and bigger and so there's you

36:47
know I understand that perspective too but to again to me the word right is just so again silly and Antiquated where

36:54
I think it could fall right in line with any other thing that's regulated and given opportunities you

37:01
know to to own or whatever in the same way that it already is MH cuz again my

37:06
point is just any person doesn't have the right to bear arms MH you can't just

37:12
go find a gun and own it you have to have it regulated right you have to have

37:17
a permit in Most states whatever I would argue that we're already in the same

37:22
position as like a vehicle or whatever and yet we haven't codified that you have the right to to drive a vehicle but

37:28
you do right just like have the right to own any kind of computer until a law

37:33
comes into effect I guess that's my whole point is I think it's harder to kind of make I feel like a lot of

37:40
vehicular laws are pretty good Common Sense laws like I feel like we've done a decent job with that we don't have very

37:46
many arguments about what laws are good and bad when it comes to Vehicles MH uh

37:52
I feel like if it wasn't for that right word in the Bill of Rights we maybe could have ended up in a similar place

37:59
with guns and I feel like a lot of countries have mhm ended up in a similar

38:04
place with guns where it's just not a dramatic thing mhm it's just like driving a vehicle like of course you got

38:09
to get it you know regulated you have to have a permit you have to go through this process we don't allow you know

38:15
these people with the prior history to own you know a gun or whatever you know it's just like it's so angsty because of

38:23
the word right and being in the Bill of Rights and that and again we can't undo that I'm not even saying undo it I'm

38:28
just saying that becomes the flag that makes it really difficult to have more opportunities for common sense

38:35
things or even for just the government to do what it does transparently and just come up with the laws and we go of

38:41
course that makes sense it's like wait did you say something about guns no you know what I mean it's like it becomes

38:46
this huge political opportunity media opportunity right because of the word

38:54
right in the Bill of Rights and that just bugs me but we can't undo that I know that and I'm not

39:01
even advocating well I might be saying I wouldn't be opposed to a world where we

39:07
said this other Amendment says that one was built on this particular culture and our culture now looks like this so this

39:14
amendment says this right looks like this does that make sense yeah a

39:19
modified version of it and it I'm just like I say I think it's interesting when

39:25
we use whenever I hear the word Antiquated chesterton's fence

39:32
mhm yeah yeah so let me can I go ahead yeah and because I'm gonna yeah I think

39:39
I think a lot of My Views are probably Antiquated that's

39:45
right it's cuz you're an antique M I am and I'm proud of I'm proud of being an antique antiques are cool well I'm not

39:52
saying I'm always cool but Justin's

39:59
okay sorry I need to get some water this is a lengthy windy

40:06
discussion I would I would propose that in that process of Common

40:12
Sense unfortunately Common Sense isn't so common anymore yeah and I would dare

40:20
say based on an awareness of what laws are in place there's already many that

40:28
you might describe regulations in place like I could go somewhere and I know I'm

40:34
not allowed to scrape the serial number off of a weapon yeah yeah Common Sense yeah does

40:43
it happen yeah and I think that's that's the part that that seems to break down

40:51
mhm in the discussion it's like the difference between my ability our

40:59
ability to legislate morality mhm for what it's worth I totally agree

41:06
with what you're saying in terms of legislating morality and my whole point about the right thing it's kind of a

41:12
moot point because again we're not going backwards on that I wouldn't again I wouldn't be opposed to see a modified

41:18
amendment that said this right has parameters you know that are fit our

41:24
modern culture the other thing I was going to say about the antiquated nature of it in chesterton's fence and why was

41:29
that fence put up well we we discussed why it was put up right it was because at that point when our government was

41:36
created that theory worked it proved itself mhm um I would venture to say now

41:43
in today's culture the government would be better off preventing internet access

41:49
to you so you can hold up all you want but you're not going to be able to call your buddies you're not going to be you know

41:56
they can do that that right now they could figure it out if you were a threat there are ways they can prevent you from

42:02
doing what the Revolutionary our revolutionary Founders were able to do against the English

42:08
there are ways they can prevent that way more effective than keeping you from

42:14
having a gun and so that's where to me where that the right thing becomes Antiquated because it's doesn't it

42:20
doesn't provide us the same opportunity as it did at the point when it was built

42:26
you know what I'm saying I hear where you're coming from yeah your thoughts you see we're going to eventually have

42:33
to uh oh man yeah that's where I'm at to where I

42:40
I'm I'm willing to Mark has to go pretty soon so he's trying to figure out how to get out of

42:46
this I'm thinking about it in that context that basically says

42:54
okay yeah I just lost my train of thought I'll be honest with you I'm sorry on that uh in that in that dynamic

43:01
because um you were bringing it back to our government has the ability to limit people in ways that are more effective

43:08
than preventing them from owning a gun so if you want to take my internet

43:14
access feel free yeah that's that's how I would look at that if you're asking me that

43:21
question I know but we're you're you're thinking from a perspective of what you have access to I'm thinking of perspec

43:27
Ive of why that law was put in place which was to be able to provide an opportunity for a revolution against an

43:33
oppressive government and I'm saying against your point it doesn't

43:38
matter that you don't care about the internet if you wanted to set a revolution today CU you felt the

43:44
government was oppressing you there are ways they can prevent you from doing that that don't involve taking your

43:52
guns and I and I I'm thinking about it in so many ways that's my that's

43:58
me you're talking the's ability from my perspective you're taking away the

44:03
government if the government can take away our ability to

44:08
communicate then you can't have a revolution well that's just one but

44:15
example and that's where I'm going cut the roads down they can Road they can

44:20
and I get that and but that's where I'm they can drop a bomb like yeah and uh

44:28
that's where we're crossing a line because and that's and I think that's

44:33
what makes rights fundamental is that a government should be kept from Crossing those

44:40
lines so is that to say that you know communication isn't monitored no you

44:48
know but are you going to be able to from my perspective okay much of our

44:56
communication monitoring is a is an aspect of terrorism

45:01
counterterrorism okay has it stopped a lot I'm sure it has I'm sure it

45:08
has and yet does terrorism still happen you follow me so is there the ability to

45:17
you know cut off in other ways sure but our free will or our our desire is is

45:25
our human instinct is going to find ways around that you follow me yeah I do and I think

45:32
that's that's that's beneficial and it's it's um not beneficial so we can find

45:40
ways around laws or we can follow them and as Citizens we have the right to be

45:47
able to vote people in who align with us in such a align with our political views

45:54
in so many ways that promotes a healthier Society now is that to say there won't be

45:59
individuals that want to bypass or you know and is that to is it the

46:05
government's ability to completely protect me I don't see it that way and I

46:11
think there there in lies a Continuum if you will between the ability to be autonomous or

46:20
independent or interdependent or you know those kind of things and I think that's kind of what we're talking about

46:26
at that that point from a philosophical standpoint mhm and we've kind of you know broken away from the gun control

46:33
part not that I'm not willing to have that discussion but I mean that's that's what I was going to say about this

46:38
conversation is it's kind of it it leads into so many other

46:43
conversations exactly and I think that's that's the problem with talking points is it doesn't provide opportunity for

46:50
those other conversations where I think and and here again I don't want to want

46:55
us to break down to talking points I want you to know that I've appreciated our ability to have this discussion and

47:03
and I get to know you in a way that I value and appreciate so yes thank you

47:11
for sharing how you see it you're welcome Mark and thank you as well my pleasure you're going to have to take me

47:17
shooting well I'd love to all right I'd love to all right hold you to it yeah

47:23
put it on the calendar let's do it well that's how we see it [Music]

47:31
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