Troy:

Okay. All right. I’m gonna be myself and we’ll uh we’ll see what that looks like.

Justin:

You can stand if you want.

Troy:

Oh no, I wasn’t gonna stand up but I just you know like um I didn’t wanna just Yeah, yeah.

Mark:

Okay, good. Yeah, we’ll we’ll make sure.

Troy:

We’ll spice it up, right?

Mark:

Are you bringing up that uh

Justin:

The spicy subject?

Mark:

No no no. Yeah, you’re in charge of bringing up spicy subjects. Welcome to How I See It with me, Mark Pratt and Justin Sternberg. This is a podcast that works to counter cultural Polarization through thoughtful conversations. Good morning.

Troy:

Good morning.

Mark:

Good to have you, Troy.

Troy:

It’s great to be here.

Mark:

The joining us this morning is Troy Knight, the lead pastor, as it typically says on the screen in the front for Generations Church.

Troy:

Yes.

Mark:

It’s good to have you.

Troy:

Thanks, brother.

Mark:

How are you doing this morning?

Troy:

Um I’m good. You know, a little tired. I stayed up and watched well I didn’t stay up too late, but I w I you know watched some election f things last night and But no, man, I feel good. It’s uh life’s good. No complaints, man. Glad to be with you guys.

Mark:

You saw a lot of too early to call

Troy:

That’s exactly what I yeah, I think you pretty much have stepped on midnight or beyond uh to get all the yeah, and some of ’em I guess still don’t know. Yeah. Yeah.

Mark:

That’s right.

Justin:

They gotta cut the chads, right?

Mark:

That’s right.

Justin:

The dangling chads. You remember that from Florida thing and carrying me?

Troy:

Well they they mentioned that last night is how Florida they got their results a lot faster because the hanging shad caused them to redo all their the way they tabulate votes. And that other states are saying other states could learn from Florida because they got ’em in so fast.

Mark:

Sure.

Troy:

Yeah.

Mark:

Yeah.

Justin:

I make that joke about hanging Chad ‘s. And no one ever knows what I’m talking about.

Troy:

Is it really that long ago?

Mark:

It’s a generational thing. Yeah. Oh, is that

Troy:

2000?

Justin:

Maybe. Should I Google it real quick?

Troy:

Oh, that’s alright. We don’t care.

Justin:

We’ll save it for the five.

Mark:

I believe it was Bush Gore. Yeah. Yeah. Just thinking about it.

Justin:

Hanging Chads and it was Florida. It’s definitely Bush, I remember that.

Mark:

And I think it was 2000.

Justin:

Yeah. But so when I asked you if you would be on the podcast I said, what would you like to talk about? And you said, The Bible smoked meat in football.

Troy:

It don’t really not in that order.

Justin:

That order’s not terrible

Troy:

Yeah, those are

Justin:

That was your joke response, but I’m like, I’m writing that down and I’m gonna I’m gonna tell him you said that.

Troy:

That’s right.

Justin:

But yeah, what’s cool? Um What what one thing that I would like to talk about that I think is pretty cool about what you got going on is that you are a pastor of a growing church in in a growing community. Brunswick County, I think, is one of the fastest growing uh counties in the country right now. So it’s it’s crazy growth. So you got that going on and and that you know, takes a lot up a lot of head space, a lot of heart space, that kind of thing.

Troy:

So it’s good when you say it.

Justin:

And at the same time, um For some reason you decide, hey, I think I want to start a smoked meat restaurant, right? Um, how many years has it been since you started this? Southport Smokehouse.

Troy:

Yeah, Southport Smokehouse we started in uh 2014, April 2014. So um

Justin:

That was

Troy:

a long time.

Justin:

That was a long time.

Mark:

I mean

Troy:

relatively speaking at the

Mark:

rank table. Yeah.

Troy:

Yeah.

Justin:

It does not seem like it was that long ago. I know. I remember the the whole thing.

Troy:

I think I had you in my living room and you and a couple of guys would just like Uh am I crazy to do this, Justin? And you know, we we kind of uh had a conversation because I I wanted to make sure that

Justin:

I wish I remember what I said, but I’m gonna assume I said it’s gonna be wildly successful. You’re gonna open a location in Leland and

Mark:

Prophet Justin

Justin:

No, but that’s it’s been really cool. So almost ten years, but um it continued to has continued to do well. I think there’s maybe a little bit of struggle the first couple of years just to get your feet under you, but not a struggle in a sense of potentially failing, right? I mean it was just like

Troy:

Yeah yeah it was uh definitely took a f a few years uh to make money First year we lost money, then we kind of broke even, and then this year has been our most successful year. Um revenue-wise, now Profit has been a struggle. Uh we’ve been profitable, but um

Justin:

supply chain, right?

Troy:

Oh man, food costs, uh cot price of brisket’s doubled Uh staff staffing we’ve uh you know you have to pay people more now. Um because the competition when Taco Bell and McDonald’s is paying $13. 14 an hour. We have an advantage because we have tips. And so we can keep our hourly a little bit lower than some of those, but and they still come out ahead because of tips. But yeah, I mean that’s the There’s a competition for workers in Southport. It’s uh uh maybe I don’t have as bad a problem in Leland, uh Leland Smokehouse. Uh I guess it’s closer to Wilmington, but Yeah, I think the demographic a lot of people come here to retire, not work. Not to work. And uh so it’s hard to find that that demographic who who who wants to work in a restaurant kind of starter jobs for a lot of the students and

Justin:

Yeah, and this y the pain is not unique to you. I mean I think Hardy ‘s probably shut down. I mean I know they shut down, but probably big reason is

Troy:

Labor. Yeah, absolutely. I’ve got two two guys in my small group who are restaurant owners, Matt at Saucy Southerner and uh Mike at um Old Bridge and Both of them would uh you know, we have conversations about you know, just hey, if you got any applications that come, you guys can’t use them, send them our way, you know. We’re always talking about these issues. So uh

Mark:

then it’s fortunate for you, speaking from our personal family history, you still have the generations church staff, you know, to And attendees, you know, like youth kids, people that Tab’s connected with to kind of plug in and it’s still difficult.

Troy:

Yes, yes.

Mark:

I think when I go in there, it’s like I see a lot of the kids from generations, you know. Speaking of that for my own kids, but

Justin:

every Sunday he’s like, Hey, if you need a job

Troy:

conflict of interest here. If anybody could give a plate of barbecue after my ceremony, it’s like

Justin:

We don’t do ads at generations, right? That’s a big thing. But but for that we make an exception. Smoke me. I’m totally kidding. Uh actually I think it’s kind of uh Impressive how you keep kind of keep that separation. Very, very, I think, I don’t know, I’d say very few people would know unless they know that you do both and that you’re gonna own the smokehouse. And I think you do that semi intentionally, would be my guess.

Troy:

I do. Yeah.

Justin:

Um and then um Uh every once in a while it like slips or whatever ’cause you just anecdotally talking. I think we did uh live baptisms last week, which was amazing.

Troy:

Yeah that was

Justin:

sixty one people baptized.

Troy:

Yes.

Justin:

Amaz. I know I’m going between uh church and smokehouse a lot. But that that’s what this is this is Troy man. This is what it’s all about. Bible smoked meat and football. We didn’t get to the football part yet. He does have a foot injury But it’s not football related. So

Troy:

that’s right. That’s right. We don’t have to tell that story, do we? Uh

Justin:

but anyway, y you know, doing live baptisms, there’s not a script for that. So you you were kinda just talking about different people. I remember at one point you mentioned the small And I was like, that that’s a rare appearance to hear the smokehouse from Troy’s mouth on a Sunday morning. So joking aside, I do think you keep that balance pretty ba balance. I think you do a good job with that. Um

Troy:

yeah, I was baptizing one of the kids who works at the Smoky Islands that came up.

Justin:

That’s right. That’s so cool.

Troy:

It was cool because I don’t I don’t get to cut and meat a whole lot. Uh on purpose. I just don’t have time to to do those uh shifts, although I enjoy it because our manager is usually the one behind the counter who’s you know slicing brisket and all that And uh, but we were short staffed one night or somebody got sick, and so I stepped in and one of the young men who worked there, who works there, um He we just got in a conversation about God, Jesus, all that, and apparently he had uh recently given his life to Christ, was thinking about baptism. I’m like Well, a lot of people don’t know this, but we’re about to do a spontaneous baptism at Generations. So you come, you know, whatever. And he’d been coming to the church. His whole family had and I didn’t know that. So it was really cool to to know they’ve been coming. And he’s like, yeah, he came forward that morning. So it’s like, oh, I loved it. Yeah.

Mark:

Yeah.

Troy:

Yeah.

Justin:

So that that was one of the questions we had was um essentially how do you do that? How do you keep that balance so well between You know, what we have here, businessman Troy and Pastor Troy, right?

Troy:

Yeah, yeah. Um, I think it maybe it goes back to the way I started it. Um when we started the smokehouse. I was well into Generations Church. We planted Generations Church in 2005. And so I’d been doing that. I knew how much time it took. And I didn’t and that and that’s my calling in my life. That’s what I I know God is Part of the reason he put me on this planet is to is to preach his word, to plant that church. I love it. And so I didn’t want Um and there’s an interesting story how how it came about, but I didn’t want it to be a distraction from you know that primary calling, if you will. And so when we started And and how it started, so myself and my my buddy Jim Sparks were were living in Cades Cove neighborhood in Southport. And We were just I’d smoked meat since I was in my twenties. My dad, you know, when I was a kid, ribs, brisket, whatever on the back porch and his offset smoker And so I watched him, loved it, loved eating it, started perfecting it, got my Oklahoma Joe’s offset smoker when I was in my 20s And started experimenting myself. So I’ve been doing it for years. And my buddy Jim and I, we’d on the weekends, we’d throw brisket, we’d throw butts, ribs, whatever on the smoker. And we were getting good at it. Like we were, you know, reading articles. I don’t remember if YouTube was out that big back then, but we were uh, you know, watching stuff and And he’s like, man, we should start a restaurant. And I’m like, oh, I don’t have time for that. You know, and he kept saying it, saying it. And eventually this building where we were located on Howe Street in Southport became available And we took the took the plunge and did it. And so I just said up front when, you know, to Jim and to the manager that we hired. I want to be a part and I can do some things on my laptop, marketing, finance, QuickBooks, you know, I can learn some things because I’d never I wasn’t a QuickBooks expert at the time, but anyway I said, but you know, church is my was where I’m gonna spend, I’m a full-time pastor. And so that’s how we begin it. And then a couple of years into it, Jim was kind of tired of it and was like, I’m kind of ready to get out. So Tab and I bought them out, Jim and Carla and that partnership, so we became full owners. And because I loved it. Um, like I would I wasn’t ready to get out of it. I was like, let’s do this, do it some more. And but I went to the mentality that The managers are gonna run it. I’m gonna hire people who are can run it. I’m gonna share profits with them. So I can make more, but I make less because we do a profit sharing deal And it just works so well. I love it. I love the being generous with the prophets. And I love they were a partnership. We have a manager ‘s meeting about once a month and uh sit down with our managers and we just talk about, a matter of fact, we’re having one tomorrow and we’re talking about different stuff. um one of them brought up a sauce idea and I’m like, okay. And this is part of it too. Like he’s I told him the other day. Um okay if we add it because he’s got this idea for Nashville Hot, which I love Nashville Hot. Um done right and it’s like that would go so well with you know whatever and I’m like okay that’s cool let’s talk about the managers meeting but if we add Nashville hot we’re dropping Texas spicy or South Carolina mustard or whatever because at generations and at the smokehouse part of the way we manage it Is we say uh yes to great, to say no to good. You know, so so a lot of great ideas, a lot of good ideas. But there’s only a few great ones and we’re only gonna be good at a certain number of things. So at Generations Church we say we do four things at Smokehouse You know, we do briskets, butts. We do a few smoked meats. We could do more. We could do smoked turkey. We get ideas, smoked meatloaf. I mean we get all these ideas every every other week somebody’s got, you ought to throw that on the pit, you know Uh we could do different sides, but um I don’t like our menu any bigger. We’re we’re not um Cheesecake Factory, you know, don’t want to be. Uh I don’t know how they pull it off. You know, it’s amazing all the stuff they have, but I think most restaurants become good instead of great because they don’t go like we obsess about brisket. We’re constantly just going, how could we make it better? You know, we we we switch from choice to prime. we change the way the temp w the way we wrap it, we get a we’re always we have something about every other month called test kitchen We just take one of our sides, one of our meats, and we go, could we make it better? We did, what did we do, spicy sauce a couple months ago. So our managers will bring different spicy sauce recipes and we we go, okay, is this better than what we have? And um and is it cheaper? Because it it could be a lot better, but if it costs three times as much, it ain’t better. Or or it takes a lot more work to to do. Um so we have to, you know, we vote on it. And uh so it’s real it really is uh and I and I think I run the church I run the church the same way. I I have a boss. The board of directors is my boss. They do an annual review of me. They set my salary. We started generations where like we’re gonna be staff-led, but there’s gonna be accountability. But the way I lead the church, the way I lead the staff is, you know, we have a staff meeting, we discuss ideas. I have an executive team now because the staff’s become pretty large, about 20 of us. And so the executive team uh they meet once a month as well. We’re we’re running ideas and I I just don’t wanna I mean some things uh you know that I feel real clear about I’ll be I’ll make an executive decision, you know. But those are pretty rare. Uh it’s it’s a team approach. I try to stay in my lane. I I know at generations I’m the primary communicator. Thank God I’m not the only communicator. Jeff, Clay do an amazing job. They’re growing. Hopefully we’re all growing together. Justin even preaches occasionally Um and so um uh but but um that’s one of my primary jobs there, you know, casting the vision. Making sure everybody’s in their lane, making sure everybody’s doing their job and then preaching. And then I at the smokehouse uh I joke, I say I’m quality control, but I kinda am. Um like I I just go in and if the coleslaw is dry, I’m like what what’s the deal with the slaw? You gotta add more, you know, mayonnaise or whatever. Um and and then, you know, I do uh I do so I enjoy fine didn’t think I would like I uh made an F in accounting in college. Didn’t think I would enjoy it but uh I do enjoy doing the QuickBooks for and kind of knowing uh where the money’s going. I think that’s important as a as an owner to um to know where it goes.

Justin:

Yeah it’s different when you’re motivated by those numbers instead of a grade.

Troy:

That’s right.

Mark:

Yeah. And it’s interesting as you were uh reflecting back on your uh your smoking career. Smok smoking meat career.

Troy:

Yes.

Mark:

But I was thinking about it as you mentioned, you know, your dad, your uncle, you know, those kind of things. And I was thinking about it in that context. what what from your family dynamic has set you up well and maybe on the other end what have you had to personally struggle against to overcome if I may. You follow me there?

Troy:

I do. I do.

Mark:

Because I think I think no no I as a parent, I’m not a perfect parent. You know, we don’t but So I think ultimately my kids will struggle with certain things, but yet I’ve set them up for success in other ways. And I was just thinking about that.

Troy:

That’s right, no doubt. Oh gosh. Um So I think success, I always knew I was loved. Um I didn’t question mom and dad’s love for each other. You know, I I listen It celebrate recovery or testimonies from people who my own wife, you know, whose dad left her when she was nine years old. And all the things she had to struggle with, the insecurities, the the things, and I’m I’m so, so grateful. I just don’t struggle with those things.

Mark:

Sure.

Troy:

Not that I don’t understand them, but Like there was a foundation with my parents that I guess uh caused me to be maybe more of a risk taker and to not be afraid.

Mark:

Sure. Confidence.

Troy:

Uh the confidence, that’s a good way to say, yeah.

Mark:

Sure.

Troy:

That that definitely But uh, you know, it’s funny the smoke me. Some of the things I learned. My parents, my mom’s an amazing cook. My dad, uh, not as much because he can’t walk as well now partly because of diabetes and he’s had five bypass surgery and gout and you know the but but part of the struggle is like we like food way too much in the Knight family. And my brother, you know, at around my age got a stroke and ’cause he was overweight now he’s like lighter than me. I’m so proud of him. He’s lost weight. And my dad. My dad’s down in the low two hundreds now But you know, growing up, dad weighed 325 , you know, overweight, um, a lot of you know overeating. And so that’s been a struggle. I’ve always been pretty thin. I hit about 45, metabolism slowed down and so now I have to work really hard excuse me not to pork up. Uh but yeah, food food addiction, loving to eat too much is is been a struggle I think I inherited from my family. Yeah. And um don’t want to inherit the health problems that dad and my brother have had but um but yeah those are

Justin:

that’s kind of a southern like bible belt almost legacy. Yeah my uh my church I grew up in Minnesota, you know far from the South as anything except a lot of the founding family members kind of were had some foundational upbringing in the South. So they brought that culture with them. And that I mean that was I mean it was like it’s it’s like the um the acceptable sin, right? It’s like we can’t do this, we can’t do that, but we can do this if we do it well.

Troy:

And we can celebrate with food. Absolutely.

Justin:

So many good memories tied around food and all that.

Troy:

Absolutely.

Justin:

It’s kind of a a trade-off, right? Like there’s there’s a lot of Yeah, good things that’s tied to that culture, but also comes with health problems.

Mark:

Well I think even like in CR, the model of eating, breaking bread together is good.

Troy:

Yeah.

Mark:

But yet when it becomes, you know, about the food versus the fellowship, you know, and we have to have this and we have to have that versus, you know.

Troy:

Yeah.

Mark:

This simplistic dynamic of being able to join together over, you know, bread, if you will.

Troy:

That’s right.

Justin:

It’s also a cultural thing, right? With if if everyone in your culture embraces that type of at uh you know Culture, right? Embraces that type of atmosphere where we just we go and we we go to the trough and we hang out together at the trough and we joke about the trough and we joke about how much we eat and it’s kind of that you know that kind of club type atmosphere, then it’s really hard to break out of that and there’s not much accountability to do to be better because it’s kind of what we’re all doing.

Troy:

Yeah, we we a few years ago we toyed with the idea of I don’t see the show anymore, but you remember Man vs. Food, where they would he’d go and try to go and eat this whatever they offered at some restaurant where if you ate it all in thirty minutes you got a t-shirt or something. We had that we we toyed with the idea of doing that smoke house having this sh massive platter, you know, you eat it, you get a prize, whatever. And I’m like, do we really want to? I mean three meat plate Is borderline gluttony if somebody a three meat plate smokehouse is half passed. That’s right. I’ve eaten it before. I’ve I’ve eaten it. Me too. Sadly.

Justin:

I did recover.

Troy:

That’s right. That’s right. It’s funny if you go in there at lunchtime. Um, it’s like 90% men, you know, construction workers. Like they want a good meal. Uh and It’s hard because I’ve always kind of considered it a family place, you know, like affordable and we still try to be that, but it hurts me to charge $15 for a half pound of brisket, but gosh, man, when I’m paying over five dollars a pound for it, you know, it’s just really hard. But Um but yeah, it’s it’s it’s interesting to see the men in there. It’s like we we want to eat, you know.

Mark:

Yeah. And it’s and it’s at times I’m sure there is almost a When you think about your family history in contacts with the people that you tend to see that are on that unhealthy edge.

Troy:

Oh yeah.

Mark:

There’s all is is there a point where it’s like you’re in conflict to a certain degree? I mean, you can’t be responsible for somebody else’s health.

Troy:

That’s right. Yeah. That’s right.

Mark:

And yeah When you see people come in, it’s like, man, I’m not sure you should be here. You know what I’m saying?

Troy:

That’s right. What we need to do with the cash register is have a scale. Could you get on the scale please? Sorry, you’re overweight. You can’t have the three meet plug.

Mark:

I’m just thinking about that in the context, you know, it’s like

Troy:

No, I I totally get what you’re saying. Like, um, I don’t categ I don’t uh compartmentalize my life. I don’t go Um, you know, I can preach the gospel of generations, but it’s okay if we get people drunk at the smokehouse or we cause them to be gluttons. Like I want my whole life to glorify Jesus. And I’ve thought about that before, like, okay, we’re serving French fries because You know, probably the most unhealthy thing on our whole menu isn’t the moist brisket, it’s probably the buffalo chips.

Mark:

Sure. That are, you know, the fried

Troy:

the deep fried stuff. Yeah. And so I go, you know, do we do we do that? Do we and um I guess it comes down to, you know, the whole the thing that we preach at Generations, which is freedom, uh, freedom of Christ, freedom, like we have freedom to celebrate. And I think it’s not a sin to order season fries and dip ’em in ranch dressing.

Mark:

Sure.

Troy:

If I do it every day though Um, I don’t think that’s a wise decision. And eventually it’s gonna show up when I go to my annual physical.

Mark:

Right.

Troy:

Wow, your blood work is horrible.

Mark:

Right.

Troy:

And so um, you know, I guess we we but yes I have thought about that am I not uh glorifying God with what we’re uh serving but also my own food choices, but I think for me it comes down to uh giving people freedom. We don’t serve alcohol at the smokehouse. Um it’s a something I’ve you know definitely considered we could sure make a lot more money um a few reasons why Uh and I’m just answering I don’t know if you want to go there. Uh but

Justin:

that’s up to you.

Troy:

Okay.

Justin:

It is interesting though.

Troy:

It’s definitely been a debate through the years.

Justin:

behind the scenes of that.

Troy:

Um I would say the primary reason is my wife’s a teetotaler. Um she hates alcohol, has uh uh had family members who still struggle with alcohol and so she just doesn’t want to have anything to do with it. That’s probably the primary primary, but there’s also another huge reason my kids work there Uh y’all’s kids work there. Um, you know, when you have teenagers there, um, they can’t serve alcohol. Um and so, but just want to have a great atmosphere for for the kids. Um, there’s some practical reasons. When people drink alcohol, they stay a lot longer. And, you know, in the busy time, the summertime, we’re turning tables, we’re getting people in and out, and and so uh So I don’t know if you make more. I mean I guess you could make more, uh depending on you know how much how big your restaurant is and all that. But uh practical reasons but also um you know, other reasons as well, spiritual reasons maybe.

Justin:

Sure.

Troy:

Um

Justin:

Yeah, it’s interest that’s an interesting topic for the same reason of what Mark was asking about. Like Do you, you know, do you serve fried food? And yeah, and you know, there’s a spectrum there of things that can cause addiction and can whatever, right? And so is, you know Uh the we don’t need to talk about this. But there is there a difference between French fries and alcohol? Of well of course in some ways there are. But at the same time it’s on that spectrum and how do you draw the line? Well I think y your line was pretty clearly drawn out of your respect for your wife, out of various aspects like that. Um, but I I I do think it’s an interesting uh polarized discussion right between you whether alcohol is acceptable or not and and where that falls. If you feel like speaking to that, go ahead. Otherwise I got other questions for you.

Troy:

Um either way you tell me.

Justin:

Alright. Let’s move on. So

Mark:

and I appreciate what you shared though. I mean, like you say, the the individual has the freedom to choose.

Troy:

Yes.

Mark:

And you know, and what they choose is still on them. I’m not trying to, you know, pin anyone down in such a way that says, you know, you shouldn’t serve that. But I for you personally that’s where I was looking to you know to hear how you wrestle with those kind of decisions yeah in that process of a of a cultural dynamic you know when we because we’ve had so many guests before you know, who had talk about the obesity and how to, you know, curb that to a certain degree. And, you know, so I think about it, but there again It’s that person’s ability to get in their car and where are they going to drive?

Justin:

Right.

Mark:

You know, that’s, you know.

Justin:

Yeah.

Mark:

And yeah, I appreciate the fact that you share your mindful of that.

Troy:

Right.

Mark:

In the menu options you share in such a way that still provides that opportunity, but yet you still reflect on it from an accountability, if you will, standpoint.

Troy:

Yeah.

Mark:

Didn’t mean to direct there, but

Justin:

yeah. It’s just so interesting because I like of course brisket and French fries are not evil. There’s there’s not an interesting thing. a sin characteristic to food. Alcohol. Alcohol even, right. Yeah. Yeah. It’s all those things. They are neutral in in and of themselves. They’re inanimate objects that don’t have a spiritual aspect to them. So um but yeah ultimately we’re Yeah, responsible for what we do on this earth. And but yeah, I I that’s is an interesting thing to wrestle with in ultimately you’re n like you said, you’re not putting them in the car, sending them to your restaurant And ultimately if you’d said I’m closing on shop because too many people are, you know, being obese

Troy:

R

Justin:

well The reality is you’re not gonna prevent them from being so you’re not necess I would argue that you’re not enabling by being just a restaurant, that’s an option.

Troy:

Right.

Justin:

Um, you know. Yeah.

Troy:

It’s uh preached a sermon a few, I don’t know, a month or so ago and dealt a little bit with this issue of freedom uh well almost every sermon is my goal Is not to create robots, just like God’s goal isn’t. It is for people to be filled with the Holy Spirit and to walk in the Spirit and make wise decisions. The churches, and we’ve had this conversation before about churches you grew up in and to some extent mine, but churches that create the rules, thou shalt not dance, drink, go to these movies, da-da -da. It it just doesn’t work because it creates hypocrites, first of all, because most of those people are going to break those rules But then pretend like they didn’t when they go to church. Um I I want to create followers of Jesus Christ Because I’m trying to be one too. I’m trying to walk in the spirit, not compartmentalize my life, but walk in the spirit all the time. And when I fail, I confess it. to the Lord and to brothers in Christ and and because authenticity and honesty is where transformation happens. And so um just giving people the tools to make wise decisions themselves.

Justin:

That’s good. And that doing that requires a real relationship uh with him.

Troy:

Yes.

Justin:

With with with God and with the Holy Spirit versus I you know you like even in a marriage, often men we were like just give us the recipe.

Troy:

Yeah. Give us the steps,

Justin:

the ingredients. Do that. Like we’ll do that for you and we’ll make you happy. And they’re like, I just want you to understand. I just want you to know. Like, no, just give me the recipe. And I think that’s kind of just a microcosm of humanity it’s like just give us the rules.

Troy:

Yeah.

Justin:

Just tell us those five things we have to do. Okay, twenty twenty, I can do twenty. Well fifty, sure.

Troy:

Yeah.

Justin:

Just tell me what they are and I’ll do my best to keep those and I’ll do my best to make sure everyone I can compare myself to everyone else, I can kind of measure how I’m doing. I can be a little bit of a hypocrite, maybe break one, but I get back and do the right thing. So I’m still above this person over here, that person It’s like now I have a measuring uh stick that I can use to figure out how holy I am when that’s you know ever since Jesus came to abolish that concept, right, of rules and defining yourself by those rules. It’s not the way it’s meant to be, but it’s the easiest thing for us to figure out. But it turns us into annoying people, right?

Troy:

Yeah, that’s right.

Justin:

And uh Christians are just n sinners too.

Troy:

Right.

Justin:

You know, that happen to be saved by, you know, grace that they don’t deserve. We still do stupid things and sometimes do worse things in the name of that faith, right? Um, because of those measuring sticks and measuring against other people and

Troy:

Well, it’s all about motivation. Am I going to be externally motivated or am I going to be in internally motivated? External motivation we know doesn’t work. Um, but internal by the Holy Spirit br brings about wow transformation, change life. I want to obey the Lord. I want to um Eat right because I want to please the Lord. Um, because I love him, because I’m grateful for all the blessings. I want to live a long life and you know, whatever.

Mark:

But in that process you were talking about authenticity leads to transformation.

Troy:

Right.

Mark:

And t speak a little more to that. And uh if you will, I’ll even help um As generations has grown, how has that made it tougher to maintain even some of that authenticity for you? Does that make sense?

Troy:

Uh yeah, I think it makes sense. I I try to be the best version of myself. People ask me, do you get nervous speaking whenever I think uh yeah maybe if I wasn’t prepared if I was trying to be somebody I’m not I would probably be nervous But I just try to be me. Um I try to um try not to hide We talked about compartmentalizing. I try to be honest with with God, with my wife, with my friends, with our staff, about my struggles. And um, I mean, I’ve learned a lot from Celebrate Recovery. It’s so beautiful. when the first thing you do is you get up and go, my name is Troy. I’m a grateful believer and I struggle with you just put it out in the open.

Justin:

Just get that out of the way.

Troy:

Just get it out of the way. Yeah. Just go. Yeah. And and it it Everybody else shoulders relax and okay, this is a safe place. And and and it just that’s where change happens when everybody shows up and they’ve got their mask on and they’re um pretending like they’ve got it all together. There it just it stops growth. And um so I think um I don’t know, it’s I love that about generations and um love that about my life is there’s No one expects me to be perfect. We apologize a lot. I apologize a lot for dumb emails, for things I say. That’s a good place to be. Um raising kids. I apologize to my kids a lot growing up. Um You know, losing my cool, whatever.

Justin:

Is there anything you’d like to apologize to them about now?

Troy:

I apologize for all the comments. I said about Washington Redskins three years.

Justin:

I noticed you covered the mic when you said that a little bit.

Troy:

No, it’s obnoxious Philadelphia Eagles people. Oh my gosh, they’re eight no. It’s just I can’t handle them That’s right. Mac

Justin:

is an equal friend of ours who uh is uh red well, Redskins commandos.

Troy:

Commanders, yes.

Justin:

He doesn’t know.

Troy:

I call him commandos.

Justin:

There we go. Now we’re on football. Um all right, back off of football. Um I do have a question about you know, we were talking about the balance between, you know, kind of the business and church and all that. Um, I guess I’d like to ask a little bit about the fulfillment side. Like um I’d love to hear about the fulfill I obviously you already said, you know, the church is your calling, preaching God’s word is is what you feel called to do. And yet, um, you know, I’ve known you a long time. Uh we moved here in 2006, generation started 2005, so you know, and we’ve been coming since then. So I’ve known you a long time, certainly before the smokehouse, and we had a lot of conversations. So I I know a little bit about it, but I’d love to hear just hear a little bit from your perspective about the fulfillment side of both of those roles and how just what that’s done for you in your life and kind of just share a little bit about the fulfillment side.

Troy:

Yeah, I think I’ve told you before, you know, probably that Um I have more joy since the smokehouse opened. I think it’s weird when I look back at my life. A lot of the places I came to, I came to because I was miserable. Miserable is a strong word, but I was, there was a lot of dissatisfaction just where I was before I became a pastor. I was working, living in Austin, Texas, had a great job working with comp training people in computers and the kind of the auto parts industry, but I would travel around, travel to all almost every state in the union had a great group of guys I worked with. We were all in our twenties. Uh played sports and stuff outside of work, whatever. But there was just a dissatisfaction. Like I wasn’t doing what I was on this planet to do. And it was Long story, but you know, preached at my church on a Sunday night. Um, a year later I was in seminary ’cause that’s God had been preparing my I was about twenty seven years old. God had been preparing my heart for that. And I think when I became a pastor, Generations Church was a growing church. There was fulfillment there. But again, there was kind of something missing in my life. I think there’s a little bit of a entrepreneurial itch inside of me that I love to scratch and um some pastors write books Uh some pastors speak at conferences. I’m not good enough to speak at conferences. I don’t maybe I’ll write a book one day, but Um

Justin:

your commandos jokes would really kill the book.

Troy:

They would, yes. That’s right. But yeah, I don’t know. I don’t know if a book’s in me right now. I read way too many bad books If I’m gonna write a book, I want to be a good one. Something to say. But I think when this opportunity came up with a smoke house, it definitely did fulfill something in me that was missing and I love it. Um I love leading people. I love I love I think we have to identify our passions in life. I love God’s word and I love it when I don’t consider myself a dynamic preacher. I consider myself A guy who can put the cookies on the bottom shelf, a guy who I can take a passage of scripture and hopefully bring it to life for somebody I love it when the light bulb comes on or I’m in the lobby after a service and somebody comes up and they say something, not just good servant, Pastor, but like something that God spoke to their heart about. I love being used by him to help somebody take that next step. So that’s a fulfillment for me. uh leading others, whether it be excuse me, in the smokehouse environment or the church environment or whatever, that’s always a huge thing. So

Justin:

Yeah, that’s good. Um y you mentioned entrepreneurial spirit and uh I’m curious, like, was there a point at Generation where you said, you know, this itch I’m trying to scratch it here and it’s not working. I’m curious if that if you ever felt that tension of

Troy:

Um Yeah, I mean definitely I I think when we first started, I’m like, honey, we’re broke. You know, there’s like it was so hard because we started as a non-denominational church. I think when we first started the church, it was so hard financially because we didn’t have a sponsor. And so there was the financial piece. It was like, wow, I need to do something else because we’re just not making enough to, you know, even take a vacation kind of deal. And um so I I I mean I think that was part of the the itch was uh a desire for more income, but I think there’s uh, you know, God just creates us certain ways with certain passions. And some people can work for a company, work for somebody else, and be so content and just love it and be a great number two, number three. And I think if God gives you that way and you realize that, that’s a beautiful place to be because Man, um I think about the different places where I’m a leader and I I cannot do what I do. without somebody going, I’m gonna be the best number two I can be. I’m gonna be the best. And I see a fulfillment in their lives. But then there are some people who are like Um I can’t work for somebody. I need to create this thing. Even if it fails, I just want to try. And so I think finding out who you are and moving in that direction is a is a good thing. Take a risk. Yeah. Failure, man, is beautiful.

Justin:

Yeah.

Troy:

I mean, oh, I’ve learned way more of my failures and things that didn’t work than things that did. So keep failing. Failing is not a failure. It’s a it’s a it’s tuition. So

Mark:

I think in some ways you y you know, what you share is very similar to what Paul shares about his tent making and his pastor for pre you know because I think we do have this mindset that there is just one career and you know even from my own perspective it’s like the fact that I can do a number of things or do different things It helps me have energy towards all things.

Troy:

Yeah.

Mark:

You know, whereas if I just have to dri you know, drive on with one dynamic of my ability, you know, everything gets a little more stale.

Troy:

That’s right.

Mark:

But yet if I can have that diversity to a certain degree.

Troy:

Yeah.

Mark:

And granted And

Troy:

trying things like um just I remember these days When before the smokehouse, I had a buddy who’s like, hey Troy, I do a lot of weddings on the weekends and make you know good money. And I’m like, well, I’m a licensed pastor. I can do weddings. And was never crazy about doing weddings. It’s not my favorite thing in the world, but I’m like, oh, I can do it. So Justin helped me. I did a website. Southport Wedding Minister. com.

Justin:

That’s right.

Troy:

That’s right. And did it for about a year and about oh a month into it, I’m like, this is the dumbest thing I ever did. But I kid but I booked a bunch of weddings And so I did it, but I just didn’t I didn’t enjoy it. Uh there are certain things I mean I loved. when you see a couple who you know God’s brought together and you just you can help them in their journey. There’s some cool things about it, but all the Bradyzilla And the ones there’s some mother-in-laws that you know, it just that’s not my world. And um

Mark:

You’re not a magician. It’s like when you get in that environment you got all these family dynamics and the pastor shows up, it’s like You’re supposed to fix all this.

Troy:

That’s right. That’s right.

Mark:

You got a magic wand here. Yeah.

Troy:

Well, yeah, and and we were talking about alcohol earlier. I mean, I did a few weddings on Oak Island where pretty much the whole wedding party was drunk before the wedding started. I’m like, Yeah. Not not not cool to me. Uh don’t want to be a part of this because I don’t know what to deal with weddings, but weddings and alcohol become synonymous, it seems like. I think it’s a sacred uh act holy event. But anyway, yeah. That was one I had to try it out. And sometimes you just do. You just have to You have to do them , fail at them.

Justin:

Get it out of your system.

Troy:

Get it out. Go that okay, check that one didn’t work. Let’s try the next one.

Mark:

And you still learn from it.

Troy:

Oh, you do? Absolutely. Yes. Yes.

Justin:

And it yeah, n

it’s a terrible thing to get twenty years down the road and saying, What if? You know what I mean? We’re when you just try and you fail twenty years down the road you’re not thinking about that failure. Unless you know, there’s something un unhealth there which happens. But Uh also I was gonna just counter what Mark was saying. I think it’s interesting both of you are very much, you know, by career like you you do multiple things and so you can relate really well to each other. Not everyone’s like that. So some people don’t get stale in the one thing they do. That is their passion, that is their craft. That’s what they were made to do. And that’s okay too. Like that’s Nothing wrong with that, but I do think both of you offer an opportunity for those who are kind of itching in a place where they feel like I shouldn’t be. Like this this is a good career, I enjoy it, but I also feel like there’s more. Well yeah, maybe there’s more. Maybe you should start trying doing weddings and whatever your weddings are, you know.

Mark:

And I’ll be the first to admit at times I struggle with that conflict of balance And it’s like, am I actually just being disobedient by holding on to this other career?

Justin:

Right.

Mark:

You know, in that process, should I be going forward? So I do think that’s something, you know. we have to discern from my perspective, you know, with God’s grace. But you know, it’s always helpful when you can find somebody in the Bible that’s living the same kind of style as you are.

Troy:

Yeah.

Mark:

You know Because then it’s like, okay, this isn’t just me, you know, and there is that dynamic.

Troy:

Find a scripture to justify your

Mark:

yeah.

Troy:

Yeah

Mark:

But I I am agreement with you. I think, and like Troy said, it is when people can do that. I think it’s a it’s a great thing.

Justin:

Mm-hmm. Hey, thank you for listening to our podcast. If you like how I see it, please do all the things that podcasts tell you to do. Subscribe, rate, review, follow us, uh, and or talk nicely about us on social media. If you want to reach out, the email is us at howiseeit.click. Yep, I said dot click. As in dot C-L-I -C-K Please tell your friends about this show, and we’ll see you on the next one.